doctor who alert!!


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Glad the season is over. Love Capaldi but wasnt a fan of Mr pink and maybe the Dr becomes less of a jerk. The master and her plan reminded me of something the joker would do in batman and was disapointing.

Favorite episode was the orient express

Did love the knod to the classics and unlike the Dr the painting brought a smile to my face.


Moffatt must have taken some writing clues from Joss Whedon, need to show how evil or nuts or both a character is have them kill off a fan favorite.

Bastard.


Was random glasses chick #9100191 really a fan favorite?

Really?


Yes Osgood was very well liked by most fans.

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/osgood

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/531485436905279488

Dark Archive

Spoiler:

Was the Mistress shot by the Cyberbrigadier or did she Transmat away? The SFX seemed to be the same as when she teleported off the plane.


Is Clara pregnant with Danny's kid? Did Pink already have kids?

I was really expecting something to explain Awesome Pink from the future.


Voadam wrote:

Is Clara pregnant with Danny's kid? Did Pink already have kids?

I was really expecting something to explain Awesome Pink from the future.

After doing some internet research, apparently I was mishearing "Orson" as Awesome.

Grand Lodge

MMCJawa wrote:
really? I thought that episode did an excellent job of tying together and balancing all the themes from this season. Clara as doctor, Is the Doctor a good man? Clara and Danny's relationship, The doctor having soldiers that do his dirty work for him, etc.

It did try to tie a lot of things together, but here's why I still say it fell flat: (spoilered for brevity)

Spoiler:
I feel like the Dr's reconciliation with whether he was a good man was anticlimactic. I mean, we've already done this bit. The "Am I good man?", darkest hour motif was done to death for the past 2 seasons, and reached its conclusion. (Seems like even the writers knew it - there's a joke where he nonchalantly mentions it in passing.) If Season 1-4 were the Doctor coming to terms with what he did to Gallifrey, then season 5-7 are about the Doctor coming to terms with whether he is moral enough for the power he wields. (Sometimes asked by him, sometimes by other people.) By the end of S7, the question is answered definitively.

But my problem with the tying together of the soldier theme was that it made no sense in the first place. You realize he developed this particular character quirk of the Doctor in the incarnation for whom it makes the least sense specifically to make it happen. It doesn't emotionally resonate because he broke a cardinal sin of writing by starting with the end and making everything fit into that.

(Also, the bit about the Dr using others so he doesn't get his hands dirty was also explored much better in S4. But that was a while ago, so I won't knock points off for it.)

For the Clara and Danny Pink relationship, I almost buy the "love is a promise" thing (It's hokey to me - but whatever. Obviously if I hated hokey things, I would never have watched Doctor Who.) but Danny Pink very clearly continues to show emotion right after that scene. Why do emotionless Cyberman need an inspiring speech? They don't. Why would he feel the need to give it? He wouldn't. Sure, okay, we'll stay on board with love keeping him loyal to Clara over The Master (Mistress my @#%. There's no reason to change the name.) but the rest of it is mind-bogglingly stupid. It's a microcosm of why Clara has been such a terrible companion - there's no "why" to anything she does. She just does whatever the writer (usually Moffat) thinks would be cool for her to do.

It doesn't really make sense for emotionless Danny Pink to do what he did. But Moffat wanted a big rousing speech --- so there it is.

But the WORST, WORST part was the resolution between him and The Master, for two reasons:

1. Here are two characters that are supposed to have a complex love-hate relationship, unsure of what to do without the other. The last time the Doctor met the master, he begged him to give it up and come with him. He cried in agony when he watched him die. This time? Meh. Complete indifference.

2. The Doctor doesn't kill. Discounting the old series here - look at Who since the revival in 2005. For nearly a decade, we've been sold on a character who will choose mercy over justice every single time. Who understands there will always be more justifications and more justifications. Yet all of that goes out the window, and no more is said of it. The Doctor gets to keep his 'pacifist' cred on a technicality because the former director of Unit killed The Master first. The end of the episode sets up the next big conflict being the fact he and Clara lied to one another when they promised not to.


Marik Whiterose wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I think she beamed out. She's not dead.

As a side note, when she first said Missy was short for Mistress I had about a nanosecond of hope it was Romana since K9 used to call her Mistress.


I normally like Doctor Who but I agree that the finale was terrible.

Spoiler:

I hate the fact they killed Osgood for no good reason at all.
I hate the idea of the Brig as a Cyberman.
I hate the fact that Clara has become competely unlikable over this series.
Stark Industries Cybermen

There were items I liked:
The Vaiant/Cloudbase/Thunderbirds/Captain Scarlet routine
"Piece of Cake"
Kate throwing a cyberman head down to show she means business

...but it's not enough to redeem it.

Cheers
Mark

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GM Xabulba wrote:

Yes Osgood was very well liked by most fans.

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/osgood

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/531485436905279488

Osgood at least got two episodes as opposed to that poor maid from the Starship Titanic.

Death of a character is truly only meaningful when it happens to a character we have invested emotion in. My only complaint with Osgood's death was in the way it was handled. What WERE Missy's guards doing when it's clear that she's slipped her cuffs.

Then again, the Master has had plenty of practise escaping UNIT confinement before. You think that they'd learn at least one thing... either gag him or put him in a sound proof box. If there is anyone in the Universe who's better than the Doctor in talking his way out of a situation, it's his former best friend.


Legendarius wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

Moffat was asked if the Mistress was dead for good, and he made a comment comparing her to the old Ainley Master, who always died at the end of his stories only to pop up later with little explanation of how he avoided death, alluding that we shouldn't rule out seeing more of her in the future


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EntrerisShadow wrote:


It did try to tie a lot of things together, but here's why I still say it fell flat: (spoilered for brevity)

Spoiler:
2. The Doctor doesn't kill. Discounting the old series here - look at Who since the revival in 2005. For nearly a decade, we've been sold on a character who will choose mercy over justice every single time. Who understands there will always be more justifications and more justifications. Yet all of that goes out the window, and no more is said of it. The Doctor gets to keep his 'pacifist' cred on a technicality because the former director of Unit killed The Master first. The end of the episode sets up the next big conflict being the fact he and Clara lied to one another when they promised not to.

Well . . .

Spoiler:
9 gets angry at the flesh carpet last human lady and deliberately teleports her into a situation where she is not moistened so that she explodes in less than a minute.

10 in his first episode gives one shot at mercy then kills the Sycorax leader and says that while he gives one chance for mercy he doesn't give second chances. 10 again later in Family of Blood puts out four eternal punishments to the Family, showing no mercy. I believe 10 also gets the absorbed people inside the Absorbalov to pull the Absorbalov apart and kill him.

11 blew up a whole cyberman fleet to send a message.


Thoughts on the Christmas episode:

Spoiler:
It can't be a coincidence that the Doctor awoke on the volcano planet like the one that Clara dream-confronted him during the season finale. Likewise, Santa came to the Doctor after he said farewell to her. I theorize that they have been dreaming the entire time and are still in the dream - possibly as a plot of the Master.


Spoiler:
I doubt that, since Clara wasn't even supposed to be in the next season, so they wouldn't have planned to tease it in the Christmas special (which they very sloppily changed at the last minute)..


Rynjin wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Moon and death of Pink. Twice in one season she breaks up with the Doctor to being back with him full throttle the very next episode.


Kthulhu wrote:
I find kinky Mary Poppins Master to be far superior to chicken-gulping Electro Master.

I tend to agree. I really like John Simm, but the Master they wrote for him just wasn't masterful.

And- perhaps this is more a testament to the actress than the writing- but I thought "the Mistress" was refreshingly underplayed compared to the scenery chewing Simm did with his version. (Wish they'd kept the Master as her pseudonym, though.)

I do see (and agree with) the point regarding keeping the sexual subtext more sub than dom.


Ick. From the look of the trailers for the next season, looks like both Clara and the 'Mistress' Master (or should that be 'Master' Mistress?) are all over it.


BBC America has put the first episode up for free for American viewers. No idea if it works for anyone else, but amusingly it doesn't for UK viewers, but then they can get it on the iPlayer instead.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
EntrerisShadow wrote:

But the WORST, WORST part was the resolution between him and The Master, for two reasons:

1. Here are two characters that are supposed to have a complex love-hate relationship, unsure of what to do without the other. The last time the Doctor met the master, he begged him to give it up and come with him. He cried in agony when he watched him die. This time? Meh. Complete indifference.

2. The Doctor doesn't kill. Discounting the old series here - look at Who since the revival in 2005. For nearly a decade, we've been sold on a character who will choose mercy over justice every single time. Who understands there will always be more justifications and more justifications. Yet all of that goes out the window, and no more is said of it. The Doctor gets to keep his 'pacifist' cred on a technicality because the former director of Unit killed The Master first. The end of the episode sets up the next big conflict being the fact he and Clara lied to one another when they promised not to.

1. That's never been always true. The Master has frequently tried to kill the Doctor (succeeding in one occasion!) He'd prefer to get revenge on his one-time friend, but won't hesitate to kill him.

2. The 11th Doctor was ready to kill "The Beast Below" on Starship UK. and the War Doctor obliterated both the Daleks and HIS OWN PEOPLE...including billions of innocents who had nothing to do with the evil of the Time Lords themselves. The only reason that's not true any more is because of 11 mucking with his own timeline.

Also, it's better said that the Doctor is a Technical Pacifist. While he may not kill himself, he's been very adept at turning his allies and commpanions into weapons themselves. The 11th shared that quality with the 7th. He did it a lot with Ace, and Rory was one who called him on it more than once...(while still succumbing to the effect himself)

It's not that simple a character.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marik Whiterose wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Yes.


well new season is off to an interesting start Gives us one of those "if you could kill Hitler" moments

Was very neat the way it tied into an episode of the 4th

Thing is, there is an option here I'm not sure he has considered yet.
be interesting to see if he considers it for part 2


LazarX wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:

But the WORST, WORST part was the resolution between him and The Master, for two reasons:

1. Here are two characters that are supposed to have a complex love-hate relationship, unsure of what to do without the other. The last time the Doctor met the master, he begged him to give it up and come with him. He cried in agony when he watched him die. This time? Meh. Complete indifference.

2. The Doctor doesn't kill. Discounting the old series here - look at Who since the revival in 2005. For nearly a decade, we've been sold on a character who will choose mercy over justice every single time. Who understands there will always be more justifications and more justifications. Yet all of that goes out the window, and no more is said of it. The Doctor gets to keep his 'pacifist' cred on a technicality because the former director of Unit killed The Master first. The end of the episode sets up the next big conflict being the fact he and Clara lied to one another when they promised not to.

1. That's never been always true. The Master has frequently tried to kill the Doctor (succeeding in one occasion!) He'd prefer to get revenge on his one-time friend, but won't hesitate to kill him.

2. The 11th Doctor was ready to kill "The Beast Below" on Starship UK. and the War Doctor obliterated both the Daleks and HIS OWN PEOPLE...including billions of innocents who had nothing to do with the evil of the Time Lords themselves. The only reason that's not true any more is because of 11 mucking with his own timeline.

Also, it's better said that the Doctor is a Technical Pacifist. While he may not kill himself, he's been very adept at turning his allies and commpanions into weapons themselves. The 11th shared that quality with the 7th. He did it a lot with Ace, and Rory was one who called him on it more than once...(while still succumbing to the effect himself)

It's not that simple a character.

On the 'technical pacifist' count, Davros pretty much accused the Tennant Doctor of being that in the Journey's End episode.

Mind you, a different Doctor, the Tom Baker one, did do his best to keep one of his companions, Leela, from solving problems by creating a trail of bodies...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
LazarX wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:

But the WORST, WORST part was the resolution between him and The Master, for two reasons:

1. Here are two characters that are supposed to have a complex love-hate relationship, unsure of what to do without the other. The last time the Doctor met the master, he begged him to give it up and come with him. He cried in agony when he watched him die. This time? Meh. Complete indifference.

2. The Doctor doesn't kill. Discounting the old series here - look at Who since the revival in 2005. For nearly a decade, we've been sold on a character who will choose mercy over justice every single time. Who understands there will always be more justifications and more justifications. Yet all of that goes out the window, and no more is said of it. The Doctor gets to keep his 'pacifist' cred on a technicality because the former director of Unit killed The Master first. The end of the episode sets up the next big conflict being the fact he and Clara lied to one another when they promised not to.

1. That's never been always true. The Master has frequently tried to kill the Doctor (succeeding in one occasion!) He'd prefer to get revenge on his one-time friend, but won't hesitate to kill him.

2. The 11th Doctor was ready to kill "The Beast Below" on Starship UK. and the War Doctor obliterated both the Daleks and HIS OWN PEOPLE...including billions of innocents who had nothing to do with the evil of the Time Lords themselves. The only reason that's not true any more is because of 11 mucking with his own timeline.

Also, it's better said that the Doctor is a Technical Pacifist. While he may not kill himself, he's been very adept at turning his allies and commpanions into weapons themselves. The 11th shared that quality with the 7th. He did it a lot with Ace, and Rory was one who called him on it more than once...(while still succumbing to the effect himself)

It's not that simple a character.

On the 'technical pacifist' count, Davros pretty...

"Ace, you know that Nitro Nine you're not supposed to be carrying?"

"Yes, Doctor, I'm a good girl."

"Excellent, now go blow up that tank."


Ok I have to admit I rather enjoy Clara and Missy together, they make a good combo


Clara / Missy combo:

Spoiler:
Missy: "How deep is it?"
Clara: "I can't see, it's too dark. Could we drop a stone down or something? Eek!"
Thud
Missy: "Twenty feet."

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, I enjoyed the metairony of having Missy crawling through a sewer in something that Moffat wrote. Curse of the Fatal Death, anyone?

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