You may recharge a card that has the Divine trait to examine the top card of any location deck ([ ] or the blessings deck or any character deck).
Since it doesn't specify a specific number, she can do this multiple times per turn (her own or another player's) as long as she has Divine cards to fuel the power, correct?
At the end of your turn, you may discard a card that has the Divine trait to add a card that has the Divine trait from your discard pile to your hand.
How about this one? Can she just do it one time at the end of her turn, or could she discard/add twice if she had two Divine cards?
When you use the above power to examine a card from a location deck on your turn, and it is a boon, you may encounter it.
So it doesn't have to be HER location deck? That's weird, but kinda neat.
You may recharge a card that has the Divine trait to examine the top card of any location deck ([ ] or the blessings deck or any character deck).Since it doesn't specify a specific number, she can do this multiple times per turn (her own or another player's) as long as she has Divine cards to fuel the power, correct?
Yes, though she should be careful as it can use up cards really fast.
At the end of your turn, you may discard a card that has the Divine trait to add a card that has the Divine trait from your discard pile to your hand.How about this one? Can she just do it one time at the end of her turn, or could she discard/add twice if she had two Divine cards?
I'd say this one she can only do once, similar to Lem's swap power. Checking for confirmation on Lem.
When you use the above power to examine a card from a location deck on your turn, and it is a boon, you may encounter it.So it doesn't have to be HER location deck? That's weird, but kinda neat.
Yeah. Weird but neat. She doesn't change locations, so location powers might get tricky. She is still "at her location" so its rules would apply, but some rules from the boon's location might also apply. In general, the check is being attempted at her location, so only apply things from the boon's location that would maybe use words like "boon from this location".
Rules-wide "end of turn" generally means something you can only do once, unless it specifies any amount of cards, or multiple cards. Whereas the first power you can definitely use more than once, and has its own limiter (she'll run out of cards eventually).
The fact that she can encounter boons from other locations piqued my interest right up too. I love that sorta stuff. A scout and an explore (but only if it's something good)? I'm in heaven.
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Alahazra is a pretty cool character, and while she can indeed recharge as many divine cards as she wants to "scout" decks, this can have the effect of leaving her somewhat weak when she needs to take her own turn. With more characters, this can be more pronounced, as she isn't able to fill her hand back up until her turn, but everyone is going to clamor for her scouting - especially if the waters are particularly dangerous.
Switching out divine cards at the end of the turn is really a necessity. Alahazra is extremely vulnerable if she doesn't have an attack spell in-hand - that d4 strength is a killer, and she doesn't have armor.
Even though the ability to "steal boons" from other locations seems like it would be pretty cool, it honestly wouldn't be my first choice for her Stargazer role. Getting up to a hand size of 8 is pretty important for the scouting power, and one really shouldn't discount the value of getting Perception and Survival on her d12 Charisma.
Chief Technical Officer
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I'd say this one she can only do once, similar to Lem's swap power. Checking for confirmation on Lem.At the end of your turn, you may discard a card that has the Divine trait to add a card that has the Divine trait from your discard pile to your hand.How about this one? Can she just do it one time at the end of her turn, or could she discard/add twice if she had two Divine cards?
Correct: Powers may only be used once per check or step; effects that happen at the end of your turn are used at the start of the "Reset Your Hand" step.
If you're asking can Alahazra scout more than once a turn, the answer is yes. If she has six cards with the Divine trait she could examine the top card of a location six times.
And it isn't even once per step. She can do it as many times as she has cards to "fuel" it during any period where she is allowed to play cards. So any time bet "start of the turn" and "reset your hand" except during an encounter. Her turn another character's turn, it doesn't matter.
The danger is you'll start your turn with few cards.
OK. This is the very first time that phases of a turn have been referred to as "steps". Until now, a "step" has only been understood to be a step of an encounter. Going by what you just said, a LOT changes about this game, not the least of which is how many times Alahazra can scout.
I don't think Vic really meant once per step of the turn. And it definitely isn't in the rulebook as once per step of the turn. Though the rulebook does call phases of the turn steps.
Your Turn Take your turn by going through the following steps in order. The only required steps are Advance the Blessings Deck, Reset Your Hand, and End Your Turn; the other steps are optional.
But the limit on powers is always as "steps of the encounter".
Encountering a Card When you encounter a card, you—and only you—can go through the following steps...Each player may activate any power no more than once during each step.
But we'll have to let him clarify that. I think he's on vacation right now though.
So, I went back and look for confirmation about Lem. This was the closest I could find on it. While not directly answering the same question being asked here, it does indicate that Lem can only use his power once per turn (or twice if he takes the upgrade, but then he's doing it once at the beginning and once at the end).
And the difference between Lem and Alahazra is that Lem's says "1 card" in his power. Though technically that is the same as Alahazra's because there isn't anything explicit in the power itself that he can only do it once. (i.e. they both are swapping 1 card for 1 card.) So, here is how I'd really argue that you can only swap 1 card: These powers are "End of the turn effects" which get applied during "Reset Your Hand" step of the turn.
Reset Your Hand: First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn; if a power allows or directs you to not reset your hand, you must still apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. You may play cards and use powers unless a power directed you to reset your hand and end your turn. After resolving these effects, you may no longer play cards or use powers for the rest of the turn.
And you don't apply any end-of-the-turn-effect more than once. Amiri doesn't move multiple times. Playing Levitate or Haste to move doesn't let you move more than once. There is simply no effect you apply more than once. You can decide the order in which to apply them, but you don't get to apply any of them more than once.
If they wanted Alahazra to be able to swap multiple cards they would have said "At the end of your turn, you may discard any number of cards that have the Divine trait to add the same number of cards that have the Divine trait from your discard pile to your hand." That way you would still only apply it once, but you could use it for multiple cards.
And I realize no one is really asking the question at this point, but when I saw I had said I'd try to find confirmation on Lem and I never did, I wanted to just follow up.
Ok, now back to our regular lives.
You may recharge a card that has the Divine trait to examine the top card of any location deck ([ ] or the blessings deck or any character deck).
...Powers may only be used once per check or step...
OK now for the tricky one that my 18 year old daughter asked me to get an official answer from you guys.
How many checks and steps are there really between the moment I explore and discover that the card I will be "facing" (i. e. encountering or evading...) is a monster and the time when I take combat damage?
Because she had developped a quite clever way (I think) of playing Alahazra : if she descovers that she will have to face a nasty monster, since she has no chance of winning, she just recharge one at a time all the cards in her end making examinations on locations so that she will have an empty hand when damage comes.
Question is : since you can only use the power once per check/step, how many cards can she recharge this way - thus avoiding damage (for example if the monster has 2 checks to defeat, does it change something?).
This is a tricky one for me. Any idea Hawk? Mike? Vic?
Once you explore, you are encountering a card. And during an encounter you can only play cards or use powers that relate to the steps of an encounter. Alahazra's power to examine a location doesn't relate to any step of an encounter, so she can't recharge any cards at all.
It was clever thinking though. But she will have to come up with a new strategy.
Once you explore, you are encountering a card. And during an encounter you can only play cards or use powers that relate to the steps of an encounter. Alahazra's power to examine a location doesn't relate to any step of an encounter, so she can't recharge any cards at all.
It was clever thinking though. But she will have to come up with a new strategy.
Makes so much sense!
Now for second part of the trick.It's the beginning of her turn.
She knows which card is the top card of her location deck (she or someone else examined that card during a previous turn).
This is a monster and she would rather shuffle it in the location deck.
How many card can she recharge BEFORE encountering.
If I read the rules well, there are 4 steps that are candidates :
1- Advance blessing deck
2- Give a card
3- Move
4- Explore
1 : Advance blessing deck... My understanding is you cannot play a power BEFORE advancing, but can I play a power after while I'm still "within" this step? My guess is YES but not so sure.
2 : Give a card... for me definitively an opportunity to use the power once... But only if she indeed gives a card else the step is skipped and doesn't allow an opportunity (told you was tricky)
3 : Move... for me definitively an opportunity to use the power once... But only if she indeed moves else the step is skipped and doesn't allow an opportunity (told you was tricky)
4 : Explore... This one is tricky too... Is there a "space" somewhere between the Exploration and the Encounter to use her power before the Encounter rules prohibits her to? My guess would be NO, but this is back to the issue of using the word "step" for two different things : turn-steps and encounter-steps, with rules applying for example only to encounter-steps.
So I would house rule she can use her power up to three times (providing she gives a card and moves) during her turn before being struggled in the encounter.
This said, I have a very clever daughter that answered me...
"I don't care, this is my new strategy :
As soon as my turn is over, and the next character starts, I use my power to look at my location. And if it's a monster and nobody else wants to confront it, I will recharge all my cards during all the steps of the other characters' turns. Which is at least three per turn (i. e. advance blessing deck, reset hand and end turn), so since our party is always 4-6 characters large, I will end up with an empty end at the beginning of my turn.
I hate her. She's the cutest daughter ever but I hate her!
I still don't think Vic really meant to limit her power to once per step of the turn, just because no other power has that limit, and it isn't in the rules that way.
But, your question about whether a step "exists" even if you don't perform the specified action is interesting. I think that the steps do exist, even if you don't take the action. So even if you don't move, you had a move step. And even if you don't give a card, you have a "give a card step". You can see on some of the new characters they have powers that say "at the end of your move step" which, I think, implies you can use that power whether you move or not, but you just have to use it after the move step is over.
So, I think that if her power were limited to once per each step of her turn (which again, I don' think it is) there are always 3 steps before the explore step.
And also, you can decide what order to do thing within the steps (unless a step says otherwise). Advance the blessing deck clearly says to do it first. But the explore step doesn't. So I think you could basically say:
Alahazra: I'm advancing the blessing deck. And now I'm going to use my power to examine a location.
Alahazra: I'm taking my give a card step. I don't want to give a card, but I'm going to use my power to examine a location.
Alahazra: I'm taking my move step. Before I decide whether to move or not, I'm going to use my power to examine a location. Oh. I don't like that. I'm not going to move.
Alahazra: I'm starting my explore step. Before I actually explore though, I'm going to use my power to examine a location. And now I'll explore.
But again, I don't think she is limited to once per step of the turn. I think she can do it as many times as she has cards in her hand. And I'm not so sure recharging you whole hand just to encounter a monster and avoid damage is the best strategy. For a few reasons:
1. You aren't guaranteed that after you shuffle the undefeated bane back into the location it won't be the top card again.
2. You might be recharging some good non-combat cards from your hand.
3. You are basically wasting a turn (maybe not so big a deal if your group is a small size).
4. It is costing you a recharge of your whole hand.
5. The monster might still have penalties for being undefeated, so you wouldn't want to explore anyway, even if it didn't cost you any cards from your hand. (This seems more common in S&S)
5. Why not move to another location? Or just let another character come to your location? Or both? For example:
Alahzra is at the Shipwreck Graveyard. Valeros is at the Safe House. Alahazra has a hand size of 6. Lets say she has 3 blessings, 1 Black Spot, 1 ally, and 1 item. She's not set up for combat. She recharges a card to examine her location. It is a monster. We'll say that it is just some run of the mill monster that won't have anything bad happen beyond the normal "take damage" a monster does. Now lets compare strategies:
STRATEGY A Alahazra examine 5 more locations (or 5 more times with some repeats if there are not enough locations). She then explores with no cards in hand, looses to the monster but takes no damage. The monster gets shuffled back into the location. She resets her hand and ends her turn.
Alahazra now has no idea what card is on top at her location. It could be the monster again. She'll have to recharge a card to examine it again to find out. She still might not be prepared for combat if she didn't draw a combat spell. Or she might have a bunch of combat spells, but now the card on top isn't a monster but a barrier.
STRATEGY B Alahazra recharges a card to examine the location Valeros is at. She sees it is a spell. She says to Valeros "why don't I come to your location and try to acquire that spell. On your turn, you come here and kill that monster."
Valeros says, "What if you run into the villain while we are both at the Safe House and we can't temporarily close the Shipwreck Graveyard? Or what if one of us finds the henchman while we are at the other location and we aren't good at closing that location?"
Alahazra says, "Don't worry. I'll keep examining locations and make sure we don't encounter the villain or henchman while unprepared."
So Alahazra moves to the Safe House. She explore and acquires that spell. She still has a blessing in hand and is thinking of exploring again. She first recharges a card to examine the location. It is a blessing. She discards a blessing to explore and succeeds at the check to acquire the blessing. She resets her hand and ends her turn.
Valeros moves to the Shipwreck Graveyard on his turn. He explores and encounters the monster. He defeats it. Before he explores again Alahazra examine the location. It is a henchman. They can decide whether Valeros will be good at closing that location or not. If not, then they can come back to in on another turn.
END
That seems like it would be more beneficial of a strategy. It wouldn't cost you turns, it wouldn't lose you the info you had (that the monster was on top) and it would let you each take care of what you are good at taking care of.
I know your daughter's example said no one wanted to take care of the monster, but I still think you are better off leaving it there until someone is ready to take care of it then sacrificing your whole hand and loosing the info about what the top card is.
And again, as a reminder, I don't think Vic really meant once per step of the turn. But I could be wrong.
I still don't think Vic really meant to limit her power to once per step of the turn...
First Hawk, thanks for taking the time.
I fully agree with everything you said about Vic's intent and the fact that steps somehow always exist, and so on...Considering the strategy, it makes sense only in large groups (we always play with 5-6 characters) which makes losing one turn to know all top cards of all locations a valid option to optimize repositioning of everyone. I agree that with a smaller group it is certainly not as good as a move.
It is also a strategy my daughter uses only when she hasn't a good fighting spell or weapon on hand or an easy boon to pick.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'm a bit confused by the confusion here.
On page 8 of the S&S rulebook, Your Turn begins with "Take your turn by going through the following steps in order. The only required steps are Advance the Blessings Deck, Reset Your Hand, and End Your Turn; the other steps are optional."
And on page 9, it says "A specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step."
What am I missing?
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Well, I guess I missed something.
A specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step.
That quote is from the "Playing Cards" section in the rulebook and it wasn't in that section for RotR, and I hadn't noticed the change. In RotR, the encountering a card section had a rule about once per step, but I don't remember anything about the steps of the turn having that limit. I'm sure when I read that sentence in the "Playing Cards" section I just assumed it meant "step of the encounter" and not "step of the turn".
I'm trying to comprehend the full implications for that. Does that mean that:
- Ezren can only get one explore from acquiring a card with the Magic trait during his explore step?
- Merisiel can only evade once per her explore step?
- If Ezren plays 2 Scrying spells during his explore step he can only examine his deck 1 time?
- During her explore step, if Lini has 2 animal allies that discard to explore, can she only recharge one of them?
- And the same question for all the characters that can recharge blessings instead of discarding them.
- Seelah can only use her heal power once per step of the turn?
- Jirelle can only reduce Structural damage once per step of the turn?
- Tarlin can only get one weapon back by discarding an armor during his explore step?
But is that playing cards section really about character powers? You don't "play" the character card by revealing, displaying, recharging, discarding, burying, or banishing it. So do the rules in that section apply to powers on character cards?
I'm a bit confused by the confusion here.
...
What am I missing?
Hi Vic, thanks for trying to address this question. And I agree I wasn't very clear (still learning English after 40 years :-)).
I forgot that the restriction of "may only be used once per check or step" only applied to "card’s power".
So (to build on Hawk's post), it seems there is no limit on how many times you can use a character power during her turn (unless stated within the power itself that you can only do it at a specific time - see recent FAQs) - except during an encounter where you are limited to powers related to dealing with the encounter.
True? I got it right?
So in our case the issue of Alahazra avoiding damage by recharging all her cards is only limited by the fact that she has to do it before the "encounter" begin (after that she cannot use her power to examine location since it doesn't relate to the encounter).
Therefore, since she usually knows what is on top of both decks of her location and the location she is about to move to at the start of her turn, she can indeed during her turn use her power any number of times BEFORE taking her exploration step and (if it makes sense) recharge her full hand and then encounter a monster without risk of taking combat damage.
And I indeed have a clever daughter.
Checks against cards also contain a multitude of steps, presumably allowing Ezren to grab a card off the top of his deck many times. I guess the checks to acquire would spin off more explores. But Alahazra can't use her power on those steps since it doesn't affect the checks against the cards.
Can I Eagle, Restoration and Eagle again during an explore step?
If something grants you an exploration, is that a new step? If not, can I play the same type of Blessing several times on my turn to explore? What about the same physical Blessing through Restoration? What if I'm not sure if it is the same one due to Cure? I guess the Radillo and Ezren Augury/Detect Magic loops could have been killed by some of these interpretations.
Yeah, I think I've got lots of questions about this limit on each card's power once per turn step, especially if it includes character powers.
I played Ezren in RotR where I'd play a few Augury/Scrying spells and grab a card from his deck for each one I played.
I'm to the point where I'm starting to question whether this game exists!
Ok, not the bad, but still...
I do believe it's because the game has steps within steps that allow abilities to be used more than once during a step even though the rules say you can only use it once per step.
An example is there is only one 'explore' step and that's where all of your explores happen.
Yet it's been plainly stated many times over that you can use the same ability on two different checks that happen during your explore step, even while encountering the same card with two (or more) checks, so that, in and of itself, already violates the 'once per step' rule that Vic seems to have pointed out.
I mentioned before how calling the parts of a turn 'steps' leads to confusion when the word "Step" already has a rules definition.
So, if the overriding rule is that the parts of a turn are steps, then why can we use the same ability multiple times during the same step when the rules outright say you cannot?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Remember that "step" is the word we use for the steps of a turn *and* the steps of an encounter; this rule applies to both (and it's why we use the same word for both). That is, you can use a power one time during each of these bulleted steps (assuming the action is applicable):
•Advance the blessings deck.
•Give a card to another character at the same location (optional).
•Move to another location (optional).
•Explore the top card of the location deck (optional).
(Note: When something lets you explore again, that creates a new, separate exploration step.)
•Try to close a location if it doesn’t have any cards (optional).
•Reset your hand.
•End your turn.
And when encountering a card:
•Apply any effects that happen when you encounter a card.
•Apply any evasion effects.
•Apply any effects that happen before you act.
•Attempt the check.
•Attempt the next check, if needed.
•Apply any effects that happen after you act.
•Resolve the encounter
So:
Ezren can only get one explore from acquiring a card with the Magic trait during his explore step?
During *each* explore step, yes, but this is true not because of the "once per step or check" rule; it's because of the rule that "during a single exploration, no matter how many different effects allow you to explore again, treat them as granting one additional exploration, not a series of additional explorations."
Merisiel can only evade once per her explore step?
No, once when encountering a card.
If Ezren plays 2 Scrying spells during his explore step he can only examine his deck 1 time?
If you can figure out a way to play one in one step of an exploration, and one in another step of an exploration, you can. (But I'm not sure how you can even play *one* during an exploration.)
During her explore step, if Lini has 2 animal allies that discard to explore, can she only recharge one of them?
During *each* of her explore steps, yes, by the "treat them as granting one additional exploration" rule again.
And the same question for all the characters that can recharge blessings instead of discarding them.
Recharging vs. discarding makes no difference here.
Seelah can only use her heal power once per step of the turn?
During each step of the turn *or encounter*.
Jirelle can only reduce Structural damage once per step of the turn?
During each step of the turn *or encounter*.
Tarlin can only get one weapon back by discarding an armor during his explore step?
During each step of each explore step in which it is applicable to use that power.
Yes, clearly there is miscommunication. I can certainly use the same shield multiple times during the same explore, just not on the same check. The same applies to any other reveal cards. Cards don't have memories and don't know that I used them for an earlier check. Not all steps are steps for this purpose.
So according to what Vic is saying, you can't use a Ring of Protection to prevent pre and post action damage during an encounter? Only one or the other?
Ah. Well, the fact that if you explore again creates a new explore step is a big piece of this picture too. And something that might be worth adding to the rulebook. That was also something I didn't get. I was thinking you could explore multiple times in a single step of the turn named "explore". The idea that each exploration creates a new explore step explains away a lot of the things I brought.
If you can figure out a way to play one in one step of an exploration, and one in another step of an exploration, you can. (But I'm not sure how you can even play *one* during an exploration.)
If Ezren plays 2 Scrying spells during his explore step he can only examine his deck 1 time?
So wait, can I not play Scrying between two explorations? Like what if I explore and after that exploration I play Scrying, then I play Haste. Is that a legal play of Scrying? And if so, can Ezren not draw a card for both Scrying and Haste? Are you not allow to do things in the "explore step" besides explore?
If Ezren plays 2 Scrying spells during his explore step he can only examine his deck 1 time?If you can figure out a way to play one in one step of an exploration, and one in another step of an exploration, you can. (But I'm not sure how you can even play *one* during an exploration.)
Are you saying that utility spells can't be played during an Explore step? When are you allowed to play Haste? I'm going to assume that you can play spells during an explore step later.
It seems that playing a Blessing or Ally to explore is done at the end of the previous Explore step, allowing you to create a new explore step.
Lini takes her free explore. Then she decides to play an Eagle at the end of her Explore step and sees that there is a Velociraptor on top of the deck. If she wants to use a Crow to explore, it will need to be discarded? What if she plays Scrying in between, thus putting a Check step in the middle?
Last night Pride caused Lini to do some pretty ridiculous things before her first turn. She had a hand of 8 cards, basically animals, Augury x2 and Restoration.
* Would it have been legal to play both copies of Augury in a single step of another player's turn?
* She used Restoration and failed the recharge check. (Probably because I forgot about the Cat.) She used Toad to retrieve Restoration and since she still didn't have the spells or weapon she wanted, cast Restoration again. Could Restoration have been played twice in the same step.
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Chief Technical Officer
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So according to what Vic is saying, you can't use a Ring of Protection to prevent pre and post action damage during an encounter? Only one or the other?
Not at all. You can play it once during the "before you act" step, once during the check (specifically, in the Take Damage, If Necessary action), and once during the "after you act" step. Once per step or check.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Once you're in the explore step, you're in an encounter, and when that encounter ends, you are no longer in an explore step. So the only cards you can play during an exploration are the ones that relate to the steps of that encounter.
But—and I realize that this is not clearly stated anywhere, and needs to be—you can play cards and use powers without limit in between the steps of a turn (but not in between the steps of an encounter—the rules *do* clearly say that bit).
You typically play cards like Augury are *before* you explore, not *during your exploration*. (You know, just like you always have been doing!)
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Chief Technical Officer
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So wait, can I not play Scrying between two explorations? Like what if I explore and after that exploration I play Scrying, then I play Haste. Is that a legal play of Scrying?
There is actually *one* limit to playing cards and using powers in between the steps of a turn, and that's that if something told you to *immediately* explore again, you don't get the opportunity to play cards in between the two explorations.
So wait, can I not play Scrying between two explorations? Like what if I explore and after that exploration I play Scrying, then I play Haste. Is that a legal play of Scrying?There is actually *one* limit to playing cards and using powers in between the steps of a turn, and that's that if something told you to *immediately* explore again, you don't get the opportunity to play cards in between the two explorations.
I did not know that, so no curing between your first explore and the use of a blessing to explore again, no haste, no restoration, nothing. You have to explore and deal with the encounter (bane or boon) and only once that is done (and you are not exploring again) can you cure or play those types of spells?
Ah. I always understood it as you are always in a step of the turn (or dubstep of the encounter). So between steps, you can use any legal power or card as many times as the power allows. Got it. It is still confusing that the explore step is multiple encounter steps that you can use the same card during. So the explore step is not a step that limits you for the purposes of this rule?
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Chief Technical Officer
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* Would it have been legal to play both copies of Augury in a single step of another player's turn?
Augury is the type of card you play between steps, so you can play multiples without limit.
* She used Restoration and failed the recharge check. (Probably because I forgot about the Cat.) She used Toad to retrieve Restoration and since she still didn't have the spells or weapon she wanted, cast Restoration again. Could Restoration have been played twice in the same step.
Restoration is also the type of card you typically play between steps, so you can play without limit. (It explicitly tells you that you can't play it during an encounter.)
That is, you can use a power one time during each of these bulleted steps (assuming the action is applicable)
The thing that I find confusing about the "once per step" rule in this context is that I have a hard time associating certain powers with any of these steps. What are the applicable steps for Alahazra's location examining power? When you advance the blessings deck? When you give a card to another character? When you move? When you explore? Are you able to do it once per each of these steps, even if you don't actually do anything in these steps (like you don't actually move)? What about playing a non-combat spell like Cure or Detect Magic? What step do they fall into? I've always thought these types of powers could be used at any time as long as they weren't during an inappropriate step (like during an encounter). Most of these powers, including Alahazra's, have some kind of limiting factor (needing Divine cards to recharge in her case).
Yes, she could potentially recharge her entire hand under this interpretation, but even then she isn't really safe. She could still potentially be forced to bury cards or get thrown overboard if she doesn't already know what card she is about to draw is.
Other limiting factors include the fact that many powers have a "once per turn" or "at the start of your turn" attached to them. Powers that aren't limited in this way typically come from cards that need to be discarded or recharged to use. Other powers are simply reactionary. The "once per step" rule seems to just cause confusion, extra memory work, and debate while I don't see what exactly it is there to fix.
But—and I realize that this is not clearly stated anywhere, and needs to be—you can play cards and use powers without limit in between the steps of a turn (but not in between the steps of an encounter—the rules *do* clearly say that bit).
Okay, and this was my impression and what I was talking about before with Cure spells and such. Doesn't Alahazra's power fall into this category or am I missing something? Was your reference to the "once per step" rule just for her "at the end of your turn" power? If so, I totally understand. I'm trying to backtrack through the thread so I may be misunderstanding something.
Ditto for me on what Pluvia33 said: Can Alahazra's power not fall in between steps too? And there is no limit on how many times you can play a card or use a power in between steps, right?
And you do realize that if you say yes to both of those, I think this whole thread changed nothing about how I ultimately play the game, and while insightful, was a big long circle back around to "Alahazra can basically use her power to examine location decks as many time as she has cards in her hand."
Man, I love this game.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I've always thought these types of powers could be used at any time as long as they weren't during an inappropriate step (like during an encounter).
That's exactly correct. And usually, the time you use them is in between steps, such as before or after you explore.
Other limiting factors include the fact that many powers have a "once per turn" or "at the start of your turn" attached to them. Powers that aren't limited in this way typically come from cards that need to be discarded or recharged to use. Other powers are simply reactionary. The "once per step" rule seems to just cause confusion, extra memory work, and debate while I don't see what exactly it is there to fix.
It's crucial. Otherwise, if Alahazra's combat check had the Attack trait, she could add 2 to it an infinite number of times. Jirelle could reduce Structural damage to her ship by 1 and repeat until there was no damage left. Lem could recharge any number of cards to add multiple d4s to checks by characters at his location. Lirianne could shuffle her entire hand into her deck to add multiple d4s to combat checks at other locations. And so on.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Ditto for me on what Pluvia33 said: Can Alahazra's power not fall in between steps too? And there is no limit on how many times you can play a card or use a power in between steps, right?
And you do realize that if you say yes to both of those, I think this whole thread changed nothing about how I ultimately play the game, and while insightful, was a big long circle back around to "Alahazra can basically use her power to examine location decks as many time as she has cards in her hand."
Man, I love this game.
Yes to both of those. Yeah, I haven't told you anything you don't intuitively know—you just haven't parsed it down to the molecule like I've had to do.
So just for clarity, because Alahazra's "At the end of the turn" power is during a specific step, she can only use it once per turn. And because her "recharge a card to examine" power can be used at any appropriate time, including in between steps, as long as that's when you're doing it, you can use it as many times as you have cards to recharge.
Just for kicks, I want to highlight that I actually argued against the existence of being able to play cards in between steps over on BoardGameGeek.
That question was about whether you could attempt to close an empty location, play Giant Badget to move to another empty location and attempt to close it. And I guess the same thing is true for Feiya because she can move when she closes a location, so can she attempt 2 checks to close 2 empty locations (assuming she succeeds at the first one).
I can start a new thread for that of course, but just thought it was funny that I didn't believe the "open window" between steps existed.
Yes to both of those. Yeah, I haven't told you anything you don't intuitively know—you just haven't parsed it down to the molecule like I've had to do.Ditto for me on what Pluvia33 said: Can Alahazra's power not fall in between steps too? And there is no limit on how many times you can play a card or use a power in between steps, right?
And you do realize that if you say yes to both of those, I think this whole thread changed nothing about how I ultimately play the game, and while insightful, was a big long circle back around to "Alahazra can basically use her power to examine location decks as many time as she has cards in her hand."
Man, I love this game.
Alrighty. Then back to life as normal for PACG. Thanks for the discussion and insight Vic and forum members. It was informative.
I'm to the point where I'm starting to question whether this game exists!A lot of people here are starting to question whether you exist, too, at least in human form. Some day we'll have to get you to GenCon or something to prove to them you're real.
Or perhaps the game and I both don't exist in reality as the rest of you know it...
But no, I'm real.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Sorry to burst your bubble: Cards that let you explore again work by explicitly giving you an additional exploration; nothing to date allows you to attempt to close more than one location during the "Close a Location" step, and nothing to date allows you to get an additional "Close a Location" step. (While henchmen often allow you to close a location, that actually happens during the exploration in which you faced the henchman.)
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Chief Technical Officer
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So wait, can I not play Scrying between two explorations? Like what if I explore and after that exploration I play Scrying, then I play Haste. Is that a legal play of Scrying?There is actually *one* limit to playing cards and using powers in between the steps of a turn, and that's that if something told you to *immediately* explore again, you don't get the opportunity to play cards in between the two explorations.I did not know that, so no curing between your first explore and the use of a blessing to explore again, no haste, no restoration, nothing. You have to explore and deal with the encounter (bane or boon) and only once that is done (and you are not exploring again) can you cure or play those types of spells?
Correct.
Ah, that's ok. It wasn't a big bubble.
So, just to close out some of the places this discussion went, is this summary accurate:
- During the steps of the turn, you only actually do things (play cards or use powers) that relate to what is happening in that step.
- There are "gaps" or "anytime windows" in between the steps where you are allowed to play cards or use powers that have no apparent limit on when you can play them.
- Things like Cure, Augury, Scrying, Alahazra's examine power, even playing a blessing or ally to explore again all happen between the steps.
- During each step there is the limit on only using a card's power once per step, but in between the steps you can use a card's power as many times as you are capable of playing it.
- Exploring again creates a duplicate explore step.
So Alahazra can examine to her hearts content. Ezren can play as many "between step" spells as he wants and examine/draw from his deck. You can Eagle, Restoration, Eagle. All because between steps there is no limit on how many times you can do something.
So, I've got one more question which is only tangentially related. Given all this new insight, and in particular the "exploring again creates a new explore step": The Fortune Teller FAQ. It is now limited to only be usable once per turn, which was done to close the loophole of being able to guess twice on the same card. I think that card is really cool and would love to be able to try to use it more than once per turn, but still not want to know what the card was by virtue of playing it twice. So, any chance of doing something there to indicate you can play it once per exploration? Like maybe:
On your turn, display this card and choose a category: bane or boon. Then examine the top card of your location deck. If that card matches your choice, encounter it. While displayed, after any encounter and at the end of your turn return this card to your hand.
Huh? How about that? Any chance of that? That would be awesome.
Correct.So wait, can I not play Scrying between two explorations? Like what if I explore and after that exploration I play Scrying, then I play Haste. Is that a legal play of Scrying?There is actually *one* limit to playing cards and using powers in between the steps of a turn, and that's that if something told you to *immediately* explore again, you don't get the opportunity to play cards in between the two explorations.I did not know that, so no curing between your first explore and the use of a blessing to explore again, no haste, no restoration, nothing. You have to explore and deal with the encounter (bane or boon) and only once that is done (and you are not exploring again) can you cure or play those types of spells?
Wait, there might be some confusion here. Vic, you are saying that, if something says you may "immediately" explore again then you can't play any cards or use power before exploring again, right?
i.e. If Ezren acquires a card with the Magic trait, you can't play Augury before exploring because his power says "immediately".
But Ilpalzo asked about exploring with blessings, which don't say immediately. So Ezren can explore, encounter a monster, defeat it, then play Augury, then play a blessing to explore. Right?
There was also something in there about dealing with an encounter, which it is definitely true can't play Cure or Restoration once you've started to explore until you finish the encounter, because you can't do thing in an encounter except what relates to the steps of the encounter.