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Final scenario of adventure 4 has a villain which dings you for damage in between his two required checks.

Can you use hellfire lash to avoid the auto damage if you fail the first combat check and use its evade ability? (We ruled yes, the evade kicks in before the damage)

There is also a nasty Demon that takes a random boon from your hand and shuffles it into a location if you fail a Wisdom 12 roll. In this case we ruled that hellfire lash definitely CAN'T help you avoid that shuffling of a boon in because its evade kicks in after a failed combat check and the boon effect is before you act.

Related question, what happens if you have to shuffle a loot card into a location deck? Do you auto acquire it when you explore a location?

Oh my god as a Balazar player I never thought of giving Padrig to Crowe....I think we may spring that on the rest of our gaming group just to see the reactions on their faces. Just do it casually and see what happens on an easier scenario.

Sorry that's what it was. I conflated that blessings running out ruling with beating a villain ruling.

No need to look further! You guys are the best.

Hawkmoon, am I going crazy or was there not a thread a while ago, likely during the S&S campaign where there was some talk from the designers about how when you actually defeat a villain you had to finish out your turn? It was pretty controversial as I recall.

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Perfect, thanks keith! Going to ask this next one once again so a kind soul here can help this nagging confusion:

For question # 4 does that mean that Imrijka, who's divine goes off of wisdom, can use non combat wisdom blessings against divine checks such as picking up a cure spell or a blessing.

So then Shamira can summon Shamira if you roll a 1. Resolve the shamira encounter, roll the dice, you get a 1....here comes Shamira!

Here's why I thought Shamira can summon Shamira http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rowr?Clarification-on-summoned-cards-summoning #5

On this thread Hawkmoon and others are clearly saying that you can have nested summons and the summoning rule is indicated more towards locations that trigger off of encountering creatures.

For question # 4 does that mean that Imrijka, who's divine goes off of wisdom, can use non combat wisdom blessings to acquire a blessing or divine based spell she encounters?

Ok here we go:

1. Shamira is a demon herself, so during the Nocticula's Attention scenario do we have to roll a D6 when we defeat her and fight her again? Seem thematically weird...

2. When you face Nocticula and she doesn't escape and you have multiple characters at your location, all of them may summon and encounter her, do all of them have to roll for shamira?

3. Abyssal Shortcut says you can place it at any location, does that include a closed location? If so that makes it fairly easy as long as you have a closed location

4. Can Marshall Alain use the pluses that his mythic charges for charisma checks give him for a Diplomacy check? So in scenario 4 he could get +4 to diplomacy?

5. I remember reading somewhere that after you beat the villain and win a scenario you still have to draw up...is that true? If so our Imrijka would have died as we beat the villain on our last turn of the blessings deck during an epic rush to find the villain. Imrijka found Nocticula, Shardra was at the only other open location to temp close it and Alain, Balazar and Crow were at the same location with Imrijka. We had no blessings of Nocticula secured. We all fight Nocticula the first time around and secure the 4 blessings, leaving us one short as shardra was in the other location. We shuffle the location deck which had about 6 cards left in it and Imrijka burns through her blessings and powers to try and find NOcticula. Imrijka barely finds the villain with nothing left to explore again, but Balazar, Crowe and Alain all have good charisma and opt to face her as well. Imrijka fails and gets blow to smithereens but the others succeed and we win the scenario!

I think technically Imrijka is dead if she had to draw up, but meh, it's our game and we'll end it as soon as the win condition is met!

Ah right!

Yesterday we ran into the one temptation barrier that allows you to grab spells. Forget the specific wording but you get three then select 1, and then it reads something like

Pick up the spell, then banish a card with the magic trait from your hand or discard pile.

If you don't have a card with the magic trait on hand or discard, can you still pick up the spell?

I thought you could because its not a requirement to pick up a spell, but a penalty that you have to pay if you do choose to pick it up.

I guess I see it as do you want to go more support/versatile (tyranno) or pure attack more solo reliant (eidolo)

The ability to have your strength take over con/fortitude checks is very strong, as well as the ability to use monsters to reroll failed combat checks.

Tyranno makes monsters even more useful, but im not sure it really does enough. The most useful Tyranno power to me is the ability to capture summoned monsters. At this point giving an extra D8 to other characters against summoned monsters wont really make much of a difference since everyone seems to be quite overpowered in combat, although I can see it helping against banes like the armies since it helps with any check.

I don't see it as a clear cut win for Tyranno. Depends on the group.

My balazar just graduated summoning school by finishing adventure 3 and hes ready to specialize.

If he becomes an Eidolomancer, does he have to add the powers in the order listed. For example for his first powers once he gets the role card could he immediately check off the discard a monster to reroll your dice?

Right, and if a boon bosted strength or melee by three for example, it would still work for Imrijka's ranged checks, because those go off of her strength right?

So there we go, we have been playing this wrong for a while now. Or maybe we were playing it right back in RotR but forgot along the way. Will fix now thank you.

I assume the same applies to the more martial skills like ranged and melee.

Boosts to strength dont automatically apply to melee and dex to ranged?

The character would have to say melee: strentgh +2 or whatever for a strength spell to work right?

I've been playing since RotR but I'm actually kind of unsure about this:

Let's say Balazar takes the Diplomacy check from one of the Demonic Army Barriers (Demonic Platoon to be precise)

Balazar doesn't actually have diplomacy, he has charisma, so he's rolling a D4. But does

a) Any skillpoints put into charisma count towards the diplomacy check?
b) a spell like glibness which boosts charisma help?
c) The Troop Of Kenabres having boosted charisma help?

I think it's yes to all of the above but I have like 3% fear that Im wrong.

But Alain is not naturally good at grabbing things other than strength weapons or human allies (most of which can already be used to explore anyways). So you have to assume he needs help with almost any other boon. Ranzak as discussed above has more of a natural flow to crush through boon filled locations, and as a former Ranzak player I did close locations in one turn once in a while, but definitely not all the time. I guess I would have to see it in practice.

Am I missing something regarding the lancer role?

So the powers that are worrying everyone I assume are:

Recharge a card (□ or put it on top of your deck) to search your deck or discard pile for a card that has the Mount trait and add it to your hand.

On your turn, discard a card that has the Mount trait (□ or put it on the top of your deck) to move to another location and examine the top card of that location deck. If it is a monster, you may encounter it

So lets say you have 6 cards (an assumption to be sure because thats two power feats just on hand size). One of which is likely your weapon, and the other probably donahan, and we are now assuming you dont care about armour at all.

You discard a mount (not donahan) to move to another location and you examine the card, then you are faced with 2 outcomes:

1. if its a monster you encounter it, and we assume use no cards from hand to defeat it, leaving you now with 5 cards in hand, one of which you recharge to grab the mount you just used and discard it once again to bounce to another location and examine the top card, bringing you down to 4 cards in hand.

If its a boon, you don't encounter it, so would have to use an explore somehow to encounter it, and then you assume that you dont use any cards to obtain that boon. But if you do obtain it, then you can use it to fuel the power again, grabbing a mount card.

I mean it sounds like a fairly powerful combo, but not sure it's insanely broken, there's a lot of assumptions that Alain can just crush anyone he sees without having to expend cards ever, and if he examines a boon, he still needs to have an explore somehow.

Ok....so to clarify. Now Balazar can no longer discard a spell during an encounter to grab a monster right?

I paid for this game fair and square, so I'm just going to ignore this rule. I find it a bit too limiting to have to discard valuable spells for monsters ahead of time.

I also want to echo Longshots post above. I know the complexity and nuances of a game like this are off the chart with hundreds of new cards coming in every set that need to work with the established canon rules. However, theres got to be a better way to handle situations like this than what just transpired here.

I actually ran into this question yesterday as well, given the confusion regarding Balazar and his discard spells for monsters, can Andowyn have Leryn in hand and during an encounter display him and immediately use him for the D8 towards the check?

And I think this will be much easier to answer than my previous question about discarding spells for monsters during an encounter.

Lets say Balazar is teaming up with Andowyn in a location, and during Andowyn's turn she encounters a bane with two checks to defeat. Andowyn takes 1, and then Balazar takes another.

Is a bane considered defeated only by the person whose encounter it is, or could Balazar capture that bane into his hand?

I don't think he can but wanted to make sure.

With the third deck coming up and banishing basics around the corner - any ruling on Balazar being able to overrule the standard procedure and being able to greedily grab those monsters before theyre gone forever?

Our 6 person group is on the last B scenario. So far we have failed scenarios three times (first, second and fourth once) with three character deaths (Balazar once and Shardra twice) and I have to echo what has already been said multiple times.

Scaling for 6 people seems off when you get hit with Demonic Horde or Arboreal Blight + Locations like abattoir which give a +6 to any banes check to defeat. Way too many resources have to be expended to deal with those threats and the fact that the horde requires full defeats to banish is crazy.

So many banes deal before you act damage with no easy ways to mitigate - it just wears your hand down and deprives you of options to actually deal with threats.

That being said, I actually don't mind the added challenge, I have no problem with losing scenarios, the only issue is the cheapness or lack of solutioning to potential losses. We had a location with one Demonic Horde and two arboreal blights! If those are above the henchman/villain you may as well restart the scenario right then and there.

The B scenarios, as have been stated by almost all messageboard users here, should primarily be designed as intros and ramp up for the subsequent expansions. That should be their only purpose: set the tone and entice people to continue on their journey. Wraths B scenarios are not structured to do that, I shudder to think how someone who has never played PACG would deal with the B adventures - I can't imagine they wouldn't be frustrated.

So it looks like you handled B with only one loss, and with a team I would consider missing quite a few of the powerhouses and essential divine casters. CONGRATS!

Should be much easier from here on in.

And thanks Joshua, these are exactly the types of strategies we were looking for!

The_Napier wrote:
Donny Schuijers wrote:
By having 3-5 spells in Shardra's hand, she can make sure that if the first two attempts fail for a Check to Defeat a Bane for Seoni, that the third time WILL work.
Fairly sure that 'that character takes the new result' means you can't do it more than once on a check, I'm afraid

Yes that is right, Shardra can only reroll once, so the above example is incorrect.

If you can pass Elven Entanglement then you can do anything. But if I was a betting man I would say this is going to take around 4 tries.

Doesn't ruin anything, it merely spoils the cards for a small fraction of the PACG gaming population that is playing WotR and actually reads this post.

Someone is about to suffer from some Wrath of the Righteous, if you know what I mean!........

What I mean is Vic & co are about to send a nasty cease and desist message

Too many to be con promos no? Usually only one is released. Seems like a retailer maybe got a hold of them? Or a distributor?

Havent played enough to make an assessment on anyone yet, but Im actually playing Balazar and he seems super competent so far.

Was trying to avoid giving many divine casters for cures and Andowyn, Imrijka, Kyra and Seelah have been described on this board as all being quite good so was mostly going by that.

Have fun, would love to know how the first couple of adventures in the B set go. Less worried once you get past those.

So forget all this Balazar confusion and heated discussion about Imrijka and Andowyn.

What's up with Shardra? Compared to most of the other WotR cast she seems quite a bit underpowered, even as it's understood that she is a support character through and through.

We are a group of 6 and this is early days still, but she doesn't have a reliable way to get spells back in her hand and she doesn't have weapon proficiencies, and may never even get it depending on her role.

How are people running her? Not exploring with her is not really feasible in a group of 6, but she almost always needs blessing supports for combat and barriers.

The reroll power is ok I guess, but it does keep her from having spells in hand (unlike Jirelle who could just do it if the check was swashbuckling) and we havent had a lot of opportunities to scout using her knowledge powers.

Any tips?

Sandslice wrote:

I'll be willing to do an experiment here. Someone pick a number of characters, and what those characters are, to simulate a group of people taking the characters they want. 4, 5, or 6 - just fine by me.

I'll take that party through B-1-2 and see what happens.

I would love to take you up on this.

Let's go for broke with full 6, as that's my group size and I agree that the difficulty scaling up seems a bit out of wack for a full 6. And let's make it a real challenge with none of the (so far identified to be) upper tier characters.

Shardra, Enora, Seoni, Balazar, Harsk, Alain,

Bonne chance! There but for the grace of God go I.

Just so I am totally clear.

The villain in Scenario 1, B adventure forces you to summon and defeat a monster first. We summoned a giant slug, does everyone at the location summon and fight a giant slug? Or does that contravene the summoned monsters don't summon any more monsters rule?

So as it stands now, as I start playing Balazar, I have the option of discarding a spell for a monster at the beginning of an encounter as long as im using the monster to fuel Padrig to kill the bane Im facing, correct?

Here is another Crowe question, and I sincerely hope it doesn't explode into a huge new rules development like my previous Balazar question on using his power during encounters.

Can Crowe use his "When you defeat a monster, you may move or put the bottom card of your deck on top of your deck, then end your turn." if he somehow fights a monster outside of his turn (summoned monsters, or a ranzak like evasion power for example?). I'm like 95% sure he can, but just want to make sure.

Thanks everyone. Going to start a 6 person group next week for wrath. Let's see how it goes.

Quick question - can Balazar use his power to discard a spell to put a monster in his hand when he encounters a bane? Or does he need to do it between enconters?

Maybe someone got a bunch from Paizocon? Still seems like poor form. I just want to know what she does! Would be nice to have the option to play her from the start of Wrath, not have to wait till end of June.

Klandestine wrote:

This was never a game imo that should be 'punishing' - there is nothing more soul-destroying or annoying than to replay a scenario multiple times. Yes, it should be challenging - yes it should come down to the wire on a few occasions, and RNG is always going to play a role here too, but when it just feels poorly tested and trying too hard to be 'hard' then that isn't fun anymore. If I want that kind of experience, I can go play Dark Souls...

It's funny because I feel the exact opposite. I want a difficult experience because that's the only thing that feels rewarding. When your characters were Demigods in RotR destroying everything in their path without a concern and we were finishing scenarios with almost half the blessings deck left (in a 5 player group no less) that's extremely boring.

I found S&S to be the almost perfect difficulty and if Wrath is even harder, bring it on. We have had to replay 3 scenarios in S&S and that was fine. You don't want to pass every scenario with flying colours and you don't want to fail every scenario. If you fail one scenario per adventure due to difficulty, that feels fair to me.

Gotcha - so the scout power is considered between steps so it can be used on an unlimited basis.

I find a single D4 to be a pretty ineffective addition, especially when handling barriers, but I guess it's there to help. Balazar can discard multiple monsters when fighting with his cohort, so that's cool.

Alahazra as far as I can tell can recharge any number of cards to examine any number of locations when she wants correct? Can't she also discard any number of divine trait cards from hand at the end of her turn to gain that same amount of cards from her discard back?

So can Balazar discard any number of monsters (assuming he has them) to add multiple D4s to fight barriers or obtain items?

So we are playing this scenario right now and lost to the villain two times (lost the scenario too). Any resolution to this?

The way I see it there are three options if you lose to Goldtooth and Brinebones is included in the blessings Goldtooth takes with him

1. Brinebones actually goes into one of the locations and is now a secondary villain that behaves just like Goldtooth (so you could theoretically beat the scenario without fighting Goldtooth again)
2. You put brinebones aside and replace him with a real blessing and you don't fight him, then shuffle him back in the blessings deck
3. Same as above but you have to encounter brinebones before shuffling

We are playing again in a couple of weeks and would love an official resolution to this. Vic plz?

While we are at it, if you are the only character at a location and you fight Goldtooth, do you get hit twice with his "2 characters at a location are hit with a D4+1 combat damage before and after encounter" power? I dont think so but just want to check.

I would love to hear from someone who has actually played Darago through an entire AP or the organized play season. I remember a lot of complaints about Darago's weapons and armor being limiting and it being very difficult to play him effectively.

Thanks guys, glad to know I was playing the right way. The little guy get's plenty of loot already so it's not a huge deal either way.

Ranzak's Klepto role has a power that reads "When you close a location, add a plunder card from the box to your hand.". Does this apply to Temporary Closings as well? I have been playing that it doesn't, but now I'm not sure.

I think it depends. In our group that's never been a problem for Lirianne, and back in RotR I don't really remember that being an issue for Amiri. The bury powers are a "break the glass in case of emergency" type thing. A special boost you use when your already significant attack power doesn't quite cut it.

Crowe is a natural D12 with a potential +4 (+5 due to melee), so with a decent weapon I imagine he can take care of most things through the first few adventure decks. Lirianne was crushing people most of the time once she had archers bracers and sniper goggles and a bunch of points into her dex.

Great calls Isaic - lets see how it works!

You're probably right, Oloch is specifically worded so that he can use his power multiple times as long as he has the cards.

So then I assume the great appeal of Balazar will come from his Eidolon.

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