Looking for a small-race barbarian build, and trying to optimizing it( as possible, i know small races aren't good for this class, but i like the flavour).
better going into TWF? Or stay on classic builds?
PB: 20
Level: 5
Money: Level
Race: Must be small
I really need help here :) i don't know where to start because i never played a barbarian :D
might as well be a titan mauler, for teh lolz.
Halfling, Urban Barbarian. Either Dervish Dancing, or Slashing Gracing, Power Attacking, and Risky Striking. You won't have a damage problem.
thanks for advices...
the STR loss will probably affect the weapon i must choose... i mean usually with barb bonuses to hit, one of the best choices is to go TWF, but here i'll have lower using a small race with penalty (with Wayang i could erase the problem) i'll probably need THW?
It's of noting that small-sized Aasimar/Tiefling are possibly an option, since it just says to adjust their size to small, not adjust any stat modifiers. Which means you could potentially have a small barbarian with a Strength BONUS, not a penalty. And having a pint sized angry angelic/fiendish halfling/gnome/whatever you say his base race is beating away at bad guy kneecaps is kind of an amusing visual.
Halfling, Urban Barbarian. Either Dervish Dancing, or Slashing Gracing, Power Attacking, and Risky Striking. You won't have a damage problem.
Eh, neither dervish dancer or that new ACG stuff seem appropriate for barbarians of any sort.
This is because barbarians only offer 2 things normally- power attack and bonus to their attack stat. And for the most part? They are good because they 2 hand- their power attack and strength bonus get 1.5x.
Dervish dancer has always seemed overhyped outside of magus considering it neither 2 hands nor TWF. The magus can make it work, since it is basically TWFing with spells....everyone else? Meh.
Risky striker helps....but it would help a 2 handed build just as much. And that would get 1.5 power attack at least (this is why the elven curved blade is considered great- it is finessable and it can be 2 handed, which is a rare combo).
I will also say- TWF builds are usually rather poor for barbarians. All of my criticisms for dervish dance still apply here- they have nothing to to offer outside of their stat and power attack. TWF is better for builds with a static bonus to every hit like sneak attack, favored enemy, weapon training, or smite. Again, risky striker helps, to an even larger extent with TWF since it is that kind of static bonus to every hit, but I still question whether that good old fashioned 1.5x power attack with risky striker isn't better.
Why not go mounted? You can have a medium mount and literally ride it anywhere your medium sized party members can go.
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1. Usethis Build, but put Risky Striker in somewhere. You could delay Desperate Battler till lvl 6, when you have a Courageous Weapon. You would have to drop Deadly Aim and lose utility, but you will have a really beastly Character.
2. Go Dex based with a Two-Handed Weapon. Agile Elven Curve Blade might still be the way to go. If your GM doesn't let you chose which items to gain, pick Slashing Grace.
You need: Urban Barbarian --> Rage to Dex, Weapon Finesse --> Dex to Attack, Agile Weapon or Slashing Grace --> Dex to damage, Str 13--> Power Attack
Later pick the Combat Reflexes+ Come and Get Me + Dazing Assault Combo
3. Mounted Barbarian is also always a good idea.
4. TWF might get viable at level 10, when you can learn to Pounce.
Thanks again for the help..
Mounted barbarian seems a cool build :) if someone has advice on it, it could be useful and flavourful.
@I3igAl: The build u propose is human...here i'm trying to use small races
Mounted barbarian guide with some extra stuff included about how to build around "come and get me".
Mounted barbarians are great, but AM BARBARIAN style rage-lance-pounce doesn't actually work. The damage is still good even so.
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+1 for mounted builds! Particularly if you can ride your wolf up to the enemy, then get off and use it for flanking & tripping. There are rage powers that let your animal companion rage too, which really helps to get them from "nuisance" to "the thing that's murdering you almost as hard as this halfling with a greataxe."
Also: ask your GMs, but some may allow Gnomes to take Arcane Strike since they have SLAs.
I liked my Gnome a Barbarian all the up to his death by orcs. I literally crushed stir he's as the attached themselves to me! :D
Really, nobody going for the small aasimar? Small-sized aasimar (lawbringer), drop the SLA for a stat boost. You'd have +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 to Intimidate and Sense Motive, and the perks of being small. And if you went with a mounted archetype/multiclass, you could grab the extremely potent Celestial Servant feat to make your mount a magical beast (which has better progression than an animal) AND give it the celestial template (which gives it resistances and the ability to smite).
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A halfling drunken barbarian/Viv alchemist get rage and mutagen that can stack. In the later levels grab risky striker feat. I recommend 1st level drunken barbarian then 4 levels of viv alchemist then finish with some more barbarian levels. Enjoy enlarge potions and sneak attacks paired with rage and mutagens.
thanks again... i'm really considering mounted barbarian, taking halfling, gnome or goblin...
range build i don't like so much;
if someone have builds i'll be happy to see some, just for making an idea on how build it up
The variant abilities table calls out that "Players with a particular character concept in mind may consult their GM if they want to select a specific variant ability." So it may rely on a bit of GM bribery, but it's something allowed for in the mechanics. The small sized aasimar thing is already vaguely based on GM fiat.
There's also the Motherless tieflings that get +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int, and can swap out other abilities for stuff like faster charging speed, natural weapons, and a natural armor bonus, all of which are potentially relevant to a barbarian build.
As if half the things on this forum don't fall under that description of "technically legal, but really cheesy" :P
At the least, you could possibly swing a small race without a Strength penalty, and some more relevant other racial traits than a wayang would offer.
The barbarian archetypes which give you ACs are Mad Dog and Mounted Fury. The former's workable for a mounted character who dismounts after the initial charge but the latter's easier.
So, maybe this
Mounted Fury Barbarian
Feat 1: Mounted Combat
Rage Power 2: ferocious Mount
F3: Power Attack
R4: Beast Totem, Lesser
F5: Boon Companion (get a wolf)
R6: Beast Totem
F7: Tandem Trip (make sure your AC increases Int to 3 and takes this teamwork feat also)
R8: Ferocious Mount, Greater (now your mount gets claws, too)
F9: Trick Riding
R10: Beast Totem, Greater (pounce for both of you)
That's one version which focuses on making the AC useful. Another possibility is to focus on a lance charge; you'd get Spirited Charge and its prereqs ASAP, Power Attack and maybe Risky Striker next. Boon Companion comes late if at all. Reckless Abandon and Powerful Blow and one more power might usefully replace the Beast Totem line.
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As if half the things on this forum don't fall under that description of "technically legal, but really cheesy" :P
At the least, you could possibly swing a small race without a Strength penalty, and some more relevant other racial traits than a wayang would offer.
I think that's more cheesy than most. Actually, not having a Strength penalty and keeping 30ft movement alone makes small aasimar/tieflings a tickle cheesy.
That said, the existence of Wayangs means that not having a Strength penalty isn't taboo anymore.
i'm still reading all these advices...reading and reading... and i'm really attracted (my curiosity) on Fruian's Build... can you explain more the Barbarian/Alchemist? Maybe an example of build, and how it works?
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My build is not PFS friendly due to Vivasectionist Archetype. Tho you can always use regular alchemist...I just like the added bonus of Sneak attack damage on a STR beast. Also I prefer the Brew potion feature...making half priced potions is the bees knees.
Basically the build is: 1 Drunken Brute/4 Viv Alchemist/X Drunken Brute
Early levels your going to use Raging Drunk to maintain your rage rounds.
Your core buffs:
Rage= +4 Moral Str and Con, +2 will saves, -2 AC
Mutagen= +4 Alchemical Str bonus, +2 Natural AC, and -2 Int
Typically equaling: +8 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, +2 will saves, (the AC balances out)
Dipping 4 levels of Viv Alchemist gives you:
2nd level extracts, +2d6 Sneak attack, Brew potion, 2 discoveries, Know nature in place of Heal check, Poison Use, Poison resistance +2, Swift alchemy, and throw anything, and extracts.
Other buffs to improved your daily life:
ENLARGE PERSON, expeditious retreat, Shield, True strike, Barkskin, Blur, Cat's Grace, False Life, Endure elements, INVISIBILITY, Resist energy, See invisible, spider climb, lesser restoration, Alchemical Allocation.
As far as rage powers You can always go the beast totem line. Natural armor stacks..you can Mutagen + Beast totem + Barkskin your way to a massive AC. And at level 14 you can be pouncing with your massive strength and reach.
Your move actions you will be swilling your potions and Ale but you wont be drawing AoO as you do so.
Only feat of Necessity: Power attack.
okk i think i'm really considering to build it ^-^!!
Natural armor doesn't stack. Mutagen and barkskin work, so does beast and barkskin but not mutagen and beast. Mutegen and beast both give you NAR, while barkskin enhances your NAR. It's like wearing two suits of armor.
How has nobody mentioned the Feral Gnasher barbarian yet?
I mean, seriously? It may not be THE most optimal class ever, but hot dang is it fun to play one!
in case of mounted fury build, the pc will surely start to charge and charge and charge again... is it viable to focus on charge feats?
i'm trying to make clear to me the build...so i can create that PC..
i've 20 PB (so a try...)
LEVEL:5 -> going into 6!
HAFLING - MOUNTED FURY
STR 16 (17-2RAC+1LVL)
DEX 14 (12+2RAC)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10 (8+2RAC)
Feats: ?
Weapon: ? (thinking of a Lance-like weapon to use when charging (possible?)
Thanks for the help...as you see i'm really in trouble and i must do this in 2 days.
the grenadier alchemist archetype could be good too. that one lets you put the bomb into you weapon. and if you have a few levels in it that can get ridicules. though with that one you might need the urban barbarian archetype. if you want a melee build go goblin and take the roll with it feat and keep your acrobatics up then nothing can hurt you. its like goblin golf plus you could get some fun insults out of that. and goblins behavior wise to me make wonderful barbarians.
in case of mounted fury build, the pc will surely start to charge and charge and charge again... is it viable to focus on charge feats?
i'm trying to make clear to me the build...so i can create that PC..i've 20 PB (so a try...)
LEVEL:5 -> going into 6!
HAFLING - MOUNTED FURY
STR 16 (17-2RAC+1LVL)
DEX 14 (12+2RAC)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10 (8+2RAC)Feats: ?
Weapon: ? (thinking of a Lance-like weapon to use when charging (possible?)Thanks for the help...as you see i'm really in trouble and i must do this in 2 days.
The Lance is the most possible thing to do. It is a large part of why halfing cavaliers are a 'thing'. Lances get double damage on a charge (I think it was later changed to just the first hit if you can get multiple hits in.....but hey, that is basically imitating a guaranteed crit by the standards of other weapons). It also does reach, which is always a nice fighting style.
As a small character, you can have a medium mount, which means that, unlike the humans' large horses, it can go anywhere the party can fit without any problems. So you can always stay on you pony/wolf/boar/whatever you pick as a mount option, and then just wait to charge with your lance. Oh, and remember- there are rules about NOT letting your animal companion advanced to a large size in animal companion rules (just check right above the allosaurus description)
Of course, having risky striker on top of that is just gravy. So for feats- Power attack, Combat Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Risky Striker, and Boon companion to get your mount to full level (yeah, you have to decide which to delay; Risky Striker might be delayable, since it only becomes great when 'big' is common, and your stats are good enough to do well without it until then). After that, it is just you putting the fear of halfings into the hearts of dragons everywhere.
If you're gonna focus on charge and cheese is not a worry then there is always the "Giant" Gecko. Ceiling, and walls are now available for charges or you could just give your wolf lots of spider climb potions.
Additional Mounts i can choose:
- Giant Gecko
- Cave Scorpion
- Giant Dragonfly
- Slurk
- Boar
- Cheetah
- Giant Crab
- Giant Spider
- Kangaroo
- Giant Porcupine
- Shadow Hound (Revised)
- Troll Hound (Revised)
- Giant Locust
- Giant Weasel
All are medium sized
A giant porcupine mount? Wouldn't that be fairly uncomfortable?
A giant spider mount is badass though.
Hose it down with water (the spines are just very stiff hair) and then put a mat over it. That should keep it down (I would definitely say exotic saddle though).
I would avoid the insect and such. Being mindless vermin, they only get 1+bonus tricks. Other creatures gain 3 tricks per point of intelligence before bonus tricks (and you usually want to raise their intelligence to 3 so they can take any feat and maybe drop a point in linguistics so you can give more complex and specific commands)
Kangaroo seems interesting....give it the improved unarmed strikes feat, and then ride gloriously into battle as you ride in its pouch.
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Kangaroo seems interesting....give it the improved unarmed strikes feat, and then ride gloriously into battle as you ride in its pouch.
I've seen it done before. They used Dragon style on the mount to ignore difficult terrain and to charge through Allies.
Now where to ride? In the pouch or on a saddle is the real question.
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Kangaroo seems interesting....give it the improved unarmed strikes feat, and then ride gloriously into battle as you ride in its pouch.I've seen it done before. They used Dragon style on the mount to ignore difficult terrain and to charge through Allies.
Now where to ride? In the pouch or on a saddle is the real question.
Fair enough, it gets rid of one of the few things that can stop a charging cavalier.
And obviously you put the saddle in the pouch.
Savage Technologist barbarian isn't a bad way to go with a small barbarian. Monkey Goblin for race (+4 dex, -2 wis & cha, climb speed, low light, prehensile tail!)
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You can listen to these guys, or you can use my build that's one of the most feared in Texas.
Halfling Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 12
HP 185 (DR 6/-) (favored class spent on hp)
AC 28
Init +6
+31/+31/+26/+21 (+3 for charging and higher ground through flying carpet) falchion 3d6 (weapon + acid + choice of element) +32 15-20/x2 (+2 killer)
Str 30 (16 base, +2 level, +6 belt, +6 rage)
Dex 14
Con 24 (15 base, +1 level, +8 rage)
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 9
Racial traits:
fleet of foot
Traits:
adopted
killer
warrior of old
Rage Powers:
lesser beast totem
lesser elemental rage
reckless abandon
elemental rage
greater beast totem
superstition
come and get me
beast totem
(you can go with witch hunter and spell sunder instead of elemental rage)
Skills:
acrobatics 3
climb 1
fly 6
perception 12
survival 2
swim 1
(there are more points - I use skills for roleplay purposes)
Feats:
combat reflexes
extra rage power (x2)
improved critical: falchion
power attack
raging vitality
Gear:
+3 furious Falchion
+3 mithral breastplate
amulet of natural armor +2
belt of giant strength +6
boots of speed
carpet of flying I
cloak of resistance +3
eyes of the eagle
dusty rose prism ioun stone
cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
ring of evasion
ring of protection +2
snapleaf
unfettered shirt
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Or if you prefer a gnome, here's the character I made for a friend of mine:
Gnome Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian 7
HP 96 (DR 3/-)
AC 20 (+3 if adjacent to 2 or more enemies)
Init +4
+15/+10 (+3 if adjacent to 2 or more enemies) nodachi 1d8+18 (+2 more if
opponent has magic) 18-20/x2 (+2 killer)
Str 23 (16 base, +1 level, +2 belt, +4 rage)
Dex 12
Con 22 (16 base, +6 rage)
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 9
Racial Traits:
gift of tongues
Traits:
adopted
elven reflexes
killer
Rage Powers:
lesser beast totem
superstition
witch hunter
beast totem
Skills:
1 acrobatics
1 climb
7 diplomacy
4 linguistics
7 perception
1 swim
(more points to spend - or spend favored class on hp instead)
Feats:
combat reflexes
extra rage power
power attack
raging vitality
Gear:
+1 furious nodachi
+2 chain shirt
amulet of natural armor +1
belt of giant strength +2
cloak of resistance +2
cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone
jingasa of the fortunate soldier
ring of protection +1
I'm sure you can see where this is going judging by the build above. The main difference is the stats and skills.