According to the description, one of the new characters available in the Fighter Class Deck is Flenta. Based on various comments, I'm assuming this is the same person found in the NPC codex on this website-
"Flenta Casalina
Flenta always wanted to be a wizard. She studied, memorized, and practiced, but still can't cast spells. She has, however, discovered a knack for manipulating magic items. Flenta passes herself off as a fighter with sorcerous skills, pretending to be casting spells rather than activating magic items (a ruse that rarely fools those with knowledge of spellcasting). If confronted, she insists that she gets the job done regardless of her methods. Deep down, Flenta still hopes to someday unlock the magical potential she's sure she possesses, whatever it takes."
I'm really intrigued by the idea of this character - how do people think this will be reflected in the game - would it just be having a divine or arcane skill but no spells? or do you think something more complex?
Given the last paragraph, I also want to know whether there will be a role which sees her finally unlock that hidden magic...
I was thinking about this as well. It might be a character more akin to Harsk, or Ranzak. So it could be that you get a spell, but do not get divine or arcane, or maybe you will get the option to skill into spells, and gain the divine or arcane trait after you take your role card. I am thinking that it will be one or the other, but I would like to be surprise and have a fighter that starts with the arcane or divine trait and a spell. That would be pretty exciting.
I bet that she doesn't get arcane skill, but probably some power that lets her recharge magic items or something along those lines. This sounds fun :)
I don't know, I think it would be nice to have a fighter that can cast spells. Maybe she only gets the arcane skill on one of her role cards, or she gets a power that lets her discard/recharge arcane spells without having the arcane trait
I think she'll have some items that are clearly intended for her within the class deck that will give her the proper feel. It would seem counterintuitive to give her spells when her back story indicates that she clearly can't use spells proper.
I would expect her to be very good with magical items though.
I actually like the thought of the opposite approach. Arcane skill but no ability to carry spells. This lets her recharge magic items that can be recharged, but not retain spells between adventures.
You could imagine that spells she encounters during play are wands with limited charges or some such, or multi-(but-limited)-use scrolls. This isn't much more of a stretch than the interpretation that one and done spells are scrolls.
Whatever it is, I think it will certainly be a fun twist.
No arcane but spells would be very weak - d4s all the time.
The other way round makes more sense the more I think about it - as others have said, you can recharge magical items, without lots of powerful spell-casting.
Well, we should all know exactly what she does in less than a week. Hopefully in our hands, but if not, then in the hands of some lucky Gen Con participants!
I wonder if scrolls could be introduced as well. I am not familiar with the RPG, but this seems like a good idea, that could essentially function as a one off spell that gets banished after use. It would free up her spells slot, so that she could never keep a spell, yet could have the Arcane skill. But not having the skill is like using a scroll, so it gets a little confusing. Hmm... I guess we will just have to wait and see, I guess.
Right, but from the text : "Flenta always wanted to be a wizard. She studied, memorized, and practiced, but still can't cast spells."
I don't think scrolls would be appropriate... anything that involved using a spell would seem wrong. She should have some awesome magical items a la a ramped up wand of scorching ray or such.
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Right, but from the text : "Flenta always wanted to be a wizard. She studied, memorized, and practiced, but still can't cast spells."
I don't think scrolls would be appropriate... anything that involved using a spell would seem wrong. She should have some awesome magical items a la a ramped up wand of scorching ray or such.
In her NPC codex entry, she has a bunch of scrolls in her inventory, and she can use her Use Magic Device skill to activate them.
I stand corrected.... So maybe some scrolls as boons that would allow you to fetch spells from the box?
My guess is that she will have a power that says she can discard ( recharge) items with the magic trait rather than banish or bury them. Or perhaps treat her Knowledge/Use Magic Device skill to recharge items that have the magic trait.
Maybe there will be boons for her similar to the emerald codex?
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With the character sheets out, now we know. When she plays an Arcane spell, you take a random spell from the box without a deck number (so, base set, character add-on, or promo) and recharge it. As a feat pre-role, you can gain Arcane: Intelligence (d8) +2. This only works for combat with the Attack trait, so you couldn't recharge something like Scrying, but you could recharge Lightning Bolt. Best of all, the first power doesn't specify you banish the card, so taking that feat can mean constantly adding spells without banishing any.
She starts with 3 spells, goes to 5.
I think I just found my OP character
I don't think you can recharge Lightning Bolt either, just roll better. She basically only has the Arcane skill during the combat check, but then still has to banish it.
I'm just noticing how it doesn't say "you gain the skill" just "you can use the skill". And one way or another, you wouldn't have the Arcane skill for the recharge check.
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Would you not go through all parts of the card during the check? Meaning that if you are considered to have the skill (I feel like this is just a matter of different wording to show that it isn't permanent), so you would still have Arcane as you get to the part that says having Arcane lets you recharge?
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No, because the Combat check is a separate part of the encounter than the Recharge check.
Attempt the Check. If the card is a boon, you may try to acquire it for your deck; if it’s a bane, you must try to defeat it (see Attempting a Check, below). If you choose not to acquire a boon, it counts as failing to acquire it. If a card’s check section says “None,” look at the card’s powers and immediately do whatever it says there. After you attempt the check, deal with any effects that were triggered by the check. If any cards played while attempting a check include their own checks, resolve the current check in this step and the new checks in subsequent steps.
Attempt the Next Check, If Needed. If another check is required, resolve it now. For example, some boons allow you to attempt a check to recharge them after you play them, and some banes require a second check to defeat. Repeat this step until you have resolved all such checks.
So she's only able to use the Arcane skill during the combat check, not the recharge check.
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No, because the Combat check is a separate part of the encounter than the Recharge check.
So she's only able to use the Arcane skill during the combat check, not the recharge check.Attempt the Check. If the card is a boon, you may try to acquire it for your deck; if it’s a bane, you must try to defeat it (see Attempting a Check, below). If you choose not to acquire a boon, it counts as failing to acquire it. If a card’s check section says “None,” look at the card’s powers and immediately do whatever it says there. After you attempt the check, deal with any effects that were triggered by the check. If any cards played while attempting a check include their own checks, resolve the current check in this step and the new checks in subsequent steps.
Attempt the Next Check, If Needed. If another check is required, resolve it now. For example, some boons allow you to attempt a check to recharge them after you play them, and some banes require a second check to defeat. Repeat this step until you have resolved all such checks.
Agree with this assessment, I would consider all spells as potions or scrolls, effectively one use per scenario unless you have healing to get them back. Magic items like wands on the other hand she can use all day with her other power:
□ You automatically succeed at your check to recharge (□ or acquire) an item that has the Magic trait.
Perflect way to reflect the flavor of the character
Perflect way to reflect the flavor of the character
Why, thank you!
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I'm confused..
Arcane pretender has a power that says:
"You automatically succeed at your check to recharge an item that has the Magic Trait."
And Martial Adept has:
"Add 2 to your check to recharge a boon that has the magic trait."
The rules for Recharge in the rule book says:
"Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don't have at least one of those skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge."
SOOO...
She doesn't have the skill arcane, and therefore cannot even attempt to recharge items that require arcane.
Does this mean that she ignores the rules and attempts to recharge anyways?
Or, are there some new items that list Int as a check in addition to Arcane? (which most/all currently list ONLY arcane.) And these skills were meant to be used for only the new cards?
The rules for Recharge in the rule book says:
"Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don't have at least one of those skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge."
That isn't in the current version of the S&S rulebook. It will appear in the power text for spells, however.
That isn't in the current version of the S&S rulebook. It will appear in the power text for spells, however.
So, this leads me to think that the new item cards with magic traits will have less restrictive recharge skills restrictions.
If that is the case, then Flenta is very hobbled when playing Rise of the Runelords .... Might have to do some house ruling to make her usable...
Add 2 to your check to recharge a boon that has the magic trait.She doesn't have the skill arcane, and therefore cannot even attempt to recharge items that require arcane.
Does this mean that she ignores the rules and attempts to recharge anyways?
Or, are there some new items that list Int as a check in addition to Arcane? (which most/all currently list ONLY arcane.) And these skills were meant to be used for only the new cards?
She does not ignore the rules, she just adds 2 to any of her recharge checks that she is allowed to make.
Just because RotR (a set for which Flenta was not specifically designed) has items that recharge only on Arcane, it doesn't mean all future sets will be that same way. I don't have the S&S cards yet (and certainly not the later adventures), but it's possible/likely there will be Magic items that recharge on other skills.
If this (or any other) power doesn't work or make sense for a particular set, don't choose that power.
EDIT: Added the Martial Adept text. Also, "boon" covers more than just items and spells... maybe there are other things that have recharge checks? They've left the door wide open...
If that is the case, then Flenta is very hobbled when playing Rise of the Runelords ....
Flenta never becomes a wizard; she's always a pretender. She casts spells from scrolls, and then gets more spells (on scrolls), and that's her schtick. If you want give her more spells in deck, she'll have more scrolls "ready" before she has to start rummaging around in the "what have I got handy" bag o' scrolls. It's not for everyone, but for many people, it's tremendous fun - she was very popular at the GenCon launch.
There are cards (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that have Arcane checks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them. These cards aren't spells, though - those she's still going to banish - and then replace, with something.
If that's not the sort of game you want to play, you have a large number of options. Rather than adding a "house rule" to remove a character's schtick, might I recommend that you instead play one of the other fighters, or wizards, or bards, or sorcerers, or Seltyiel, or... well, there are about 50 options available right now.
Have fun!
There are cards (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that have Arcane checks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them.
But she can't attempt those recharge checks because she doesn't have the arcane skill...
There are cards (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that have Arcane checks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them.But she can't attempt those recharge checks because she doesn't have the arcane skill...
I think perhaps Chad just worded his sentence wrong. Flenta's power doesn't require it to be an Arcane check.
Add 2 (□ 4) to your check to recharge (□ or acquire) a boon that has the Magic trait.
So, Chad might have meant...
There are cards with the Magic trait (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that haveArcanechecks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them.
But I wouldn't think to actually speak for Chad. But that is what I'd guess he meant.
There are cards (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that have Arcane checks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them.But she can't attempt those recharge checks because she doesn't have the arcane skill...
I don't think that is correct... It is for spells, because they get banished before she could attempt to recharge them, but for items, unless the card says otherwise, she can attempt a recharge. I just searched the S&S rulebook for recharge and was unable to find the rule about needing to have the associated skill to attempt a recharge.
Admittedly the cards could be worded "If you have the Arcane skill you may attempt to recharge...", but I haven't been able to find any images of items with recharge checks on the Paizo blog or in the rules, so we'd need someone with the Class Decks (or S&S sets) to weigh in to be sure.
There are cards (including cards in the Fighter Class Deck) that have Arcane checks to recharge, and Flenta can be better at them.But she can't attempt those recharge checks because she doesn't have the arcane skill...I don't think that is correct... It is for spells, because they get banished before she could attempt to recharge them, but for items, unless the card says otherwise, she can attempt a recharge. I just searched the S&S rulebook for recharge and was unable to find the rule about needing to have the associated skill to attempt a recharge.
Admittedly the cards could be worded "If you have the Arcane skill you may attempt to recharge...", but I haven't been able to find any images of items with recharge checks on the Paizo blog or in the rules, so we'd need someone with the Class Decks (or S&S sets) to weigh in to be sure.
Hmm...that is interesting. That would be a neat game changer if intentional. Spells are still banished by their powers (and since the recharge check is the same paragraph of the card), so it would only apply to non-spells. I'd love to see what some of the other cards say.
Let me see if I can walk it through.
- Flenta starts out not being able to recharge spells that say you need Arcane or Divine or they are banished. However, after she banishes a spell she's played, she recharges a random Basic one from the box.
- She might become a Martial Adept, in which case she still can't recharge spells that require Arcane or Divine because they get banished first. But when she does get a recharge check on another boon (say, the Necklace of Fireballs), she might have checked the box that gives her +2 on those checks.
- She might instead become an Arcane Pretender, in which case she still can't recharge spells that require Arcane or Divine because they get banished first. But when she does get a recharge check on an item with Magic trait (again, the Necklace of Fireballs), she might have checked the box that lets her succeed automatically at that check.
Does that help?
Let me see if I can walk it through.
- Flenta starts out not being able to recharge spells that say you need Arcane or Divine or they are banished. However, after she banishes a spell she's played, she recharges a random Basic one from the box.
- She might become a Martial Adept, in which case she still can't recharge spells that require Arcane or Divine because they get banished first. But when she does get a recharge check on another boon (say, the Necklace of Fireballs), she might have checked the box that gives her +2 on those checks.
- She might instead become an Arcane Pretender, in which case she still can't recharge spells that require Arcane or Divine because they get banished first. But when she does get a recharge check on an item with Magic trait (again, the Necklace of Fireballs), she might have checked the box that lets her succeed automatically at that check.
Does that help?
This clears up beyond a shadow of a doubt that she'll never recharge spells.
The other confusion was that someone brought up (and I thought I remembered hearing it somewhere else as well) that you can only make a recharge check if you have the required skill. Since she doesn't have the arcane skill, that would mean she couldn't recharge Necklace of Fireballs.
It sounds to me from your comment like she can, she simply gets a d4 to do it (potential d4+2/4 as a martial adept, potential auto succeed as an arcane pretender).
The other confusion was that someone brought up (and I thought I remembered hearing it somewhere else as well) that you can only make a recharge check if you have the required skill. Since she doesn't have the arcane skill, that would mean she couldn't recharge Necklace of Fireballs.
The "you can't attempt a recharge" rule applied to the recharge box, which went away.
Now you simply read the recharge power and do what it says. If it wants to limit you, it will say so (ie, "if you have the XX skill, you may..."); otherwise treat it as any other check.
Yeah, I think the thing we are wondering is if this rule from RotR is now obsolete:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check (unless you’re trying to recharge a card; see Recharge on page 16), but your die is a d4.
Recharge: This explains circumstances under which you may recharge the card—put it on the bottom of your deck—after playing it; it usually appears on cards that you would otherwise be required to discard. Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don’t have at least one of the skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge the card.
S&S just says this:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check, but your die is a d4.
NEW: NO MORE RECHARGE BOX
In Rise of the Runelords, many boons had a Recharge section that explained how you could recharge the card after playing it. In Skull & Shackles, the necessary information appears in the Powers section.
So, under RotR rules, Flenta couldn't even attempt to recharge Necklace of Fireballs. But it seems under S&S rules she can, but with a d4 for Arcane. She can use her powers to boost that or auto-succeed and she can play blessings as well.
Assuming that is intentional, I like the change. You might be reticent to do this, but would you rule that all RotR cards other than spells can have their recharge check attempted by any character, regardless of what skills they have listed? Or are their some that, in the new card format, would say "After playing this card, if you have the X skill, you may attempt an X # check to recharge this card instead of discarding/burying/banishing it."
Yeah, I think the thing we are wondering is if this rule from RotR is now obsolete:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check (unless you’re trying to recharge a card; see Recharge on page 16), but your die is a d4.Recharge: This explains circumstances under which you may recharge the card—put it on the bottom of your deck—after playing it; it usually appears on cards that you would otherwise be required to discard. Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don’t have at least one of the skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge the card.S&S just says this:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check, but your die is a d4.NEW: NO MORE RECHARGE BOX
In Rise of the Runelords, many boons had a Recharge section that explained how you could recharge the card after playing it. In Skull & Shackles, the necessary information appears in the Powers section.So, under RotR rules, Flenta couldn't even attempt to recharge Necklace of Fireballs. But it seems under S&S rules she can, but with a d4 for Arcane. She can use her powers to boost that or auto-succeed and she can play blessings as well.
Assuming that is intentional, I like the change. You might be reticent to do this, but would you rule that all RotR cards other than spells can have their recharge check attempted by any character, regardless of what skills they have listed? Or are their some that, in the new card format, would say "After playing this card, if you have the X skill, you may attempt an X # check to recharge this card instead of discarding/burying/banishing it."
Revising Runelords is an ongoing process, and we'll see where we end up.
Revising Runelords is an ongoing process, and we'll see where we end up.Yeah, I think the thing we are wondering is if this rule from RotR is now obsolete:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check (unless you’re trying to recharge a card; see Recharge on page 16), but your die is a d4.Recharge: This explains circumstances under which you may recharge the card—put it on the bottom of your deck—after playing it; it usually appears on cards that you would otherwise be required to discard. Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don’t have at least one of the skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge the card.S&S just says this:
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check, but your die is a d4.NEW: NO MORE RECHARGE BOX
In Rise of the Runelords, many boons had a Recharge section that explained how you could recharge the card after playing it. In Skull & Shackles, the necessary information appears in the Powers section.So, under RotR rules, Flenta couldn't even attempt to recharge Necklace of Fireballs. But it seems under S&S rules she can, but with a d4 for Arcane. She can use her powers to boost that or auto-succeed and she can play blessings as well.
Assuming that is intentional, I like the change. You might be reticent to do this, but would you rule that all RotR cards other than spells can have their recharge check attempted by any character, regardless of what skills they have listed? Or are their some that, in the new card format, would say "After playing this card, if you have the X skill, you may attempt an X # check to recharge this card instead of discarding/burying/banishing it."
But, in S&S at least, you don't have to have the skill to attempt the recharge?
That rule is not present in the S&S rulebook.
That rule not being present means....
1. Anyone can now recharge with a D4 without the required skill? (be it Spell, Item, or whatever.)
or
2. The exact reference to whether or not you can attempt the recharge roll will be on each card individually?
I imagine the rules were meant to replicate a fighter with a very high use magic device check. And that Flenta is supposed to be able to recharge magic items (like wands for instance).
If this is the case, then she will function fine in Skull & Shackles, but would need some special ruling to be used in Rise of the Runelords.
Something along the lines of:
Flenta may recharge items with the arcane and magic trait as if she had the skill arcane: int.
Chief Technical Officer
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The answer is 2. We tell you what you need to know about recharging on the cards. Spells generally tell you that you have to banish them if you don't have the appropriate skill. Items generally do not.
She works fine with RotR, since RotR spells generally say in their power box that you have to banish it if you don't have the skill, and items don't say anything. (She doesn't get the Arcane skill—she just gets to roll a d4, unless she has one of the powers that apply.)