Goblin Squad Member
|
Well it appears Tavernhold isn't or wasn't too pleased with getting bumped. A Neutral Good company might have approached them and explained ahead of time what your intentions were. From their responses here, it's obvious you did not.
I'm not saying what you have been doing is evil, nor that there was some reason for it (in your minds), but harm was done in order to suit your own purpose. That is not good. It helps make Golarion a better place for you, that is "self interest" or "self serving", and there is nothing wrong with that.
@ Bitter Thorn,
You guys got bumped by Kabal from "F", not by us. If you want "F" back, you need to either get your numbers above Kabal, or make a deal with them. Aragon will not be giving up its hex to anyone else's benefit but our own.
"F" is however in our top 5, or it will be in our final draft.
.@Bluddwolf
What "harm" are you are speaking of?
Pretty sure we didn't murder anybody.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
They did tell us there intentions(if we get it back how knows) and I was not asking out of spite. I was simply asking for clarification on why they have been a bouncing ball of chaos throughout the land-rush, since they seemed to be offering some. For clarification I am not a leader in Tavernhold. Just a member with the free time to post.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well it appears Tavernhold isn't or wasn't too pleased with getting bumped. A Neutral Good company might have approached them and explained ahead of time what your intentions were. From their responses here, it's obvious you did not.
I'm not saying what you have been doing is evil, nor that there was some reason for it (in your minds), but harm was done in order to suit your own purpose. That is not good. It helps make Golarion a better place for you, that is "self interest" or "self serving", and there is nothing wrong with that.
@ Bitter Thorn,
You guys got bumped by Kabal from "F", not by us. If you want "F" back, you need to either get your numbers above Kabal, or make a deal with them. Aragon will not be giving up its hex to anyone else's benefit but our own.
"F" is however in our top 5, or it will be in our final draft.
I am aware of that. If they took your slot and you didn't take F it seems likely we would get F back. I was basically joking in any case hence the smiley.
I don't presume to speak for the settlement, but I am not too butt hurt about losing F to Kabal. You can't win them all, and I found them to be gracious winners.
The implication that they did something wrong by out competing us seems silly to me.
I think the conflict here is simple: Bluddwolf views the landrush as an in-character thing. Part of the roleplay, even. So he's seeing Kabal running around grabbing people's land as just that: An in-character Chaotic Neutral claimjumper.
Other people, however, don't see it as such. Personally, I think Kabal tends more chaotic out-of-character, while in-character being...well, we'll see, won't they?
But I think that disconnect is the cause of this confusion.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Wait.... Are you trying to say that you only bounced evil companies or/and that you were cutting the wheat form the chaff?
Nope. Not saying that. For one reason, I wasn't privy to our earliest moves and why they did them. But the later ones, most had - let's call them political reasons - behind the moves. And political reasons are neither good nor evil.
I do know that one move was just to purely throw the spies off, who joined us to find out that very same bit of information to take back to their settlements. And a number of them left Kabal once they found out our "real" settlement priorities, the week after they joined us.
I THINK [don't really know] one move was because someone ticked off Sunnfire about us staying out of "THEIR" hex. You will have to ask him if that is true or not.
I don't know about the rest of you but Kabal is thinking beyond the Land Rush and the Tower Wars. We are thinking about when OE starts. Thinking about how fast we will grow when that happens and where we plan to go to set up other settlement in our quest to build a nation. We are thinking as to what we are going to be doing in this game 2,3, 4 years or more in the future.
We are currently looking for like-minded companies and settlements, either to join us or ally with us. And have been for weeks now. And that had a lot to do with where we went. And where we may go tonight.
If you, the player, are looking long term in this game but don't think your leaders are, then you might want to come over to Kabal.
And you leaders, keep checking your PMs. You might be receiving PMs from Sunnfire and Pexx about last minute alliances and/or combining with us or last minute settlement moves. It might really affect where we [and some of you] do go tonight.
This is turning out to be the slowest Sunday in recent history! When is Monday afternoon coming! Darnnit! :-)
.@Kobold Cleaver ahh ok makes more since now. Thanks for the clarification now I get where he is coming from.
.@Kobold Cleaver There is no name for our alignment and if there was I am pretty sure if spoken allowed it cause all chocolate to melt.
.@BunniBunni why you telling them to PM me. I like keeping my inbox nice and empty!
I will say, however, that I fully consider the War of Towers to be part of the story. And while I do believe killing a Marked subject to be about as evil as knocking a guy out with a frying pan and taking his stuff, I and most others will start revising our opinions of the current companies based on their behavior the second the game starts.
If Kabal keeps acting like the wild card it is, you bet people are gonna see you as Chaotic Neutral. Hey! Embrace it! We can all be Entropy Buddies!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Land Rush activities are both "In-Game" activities and they are in my opinion an expression of "in-character" designs or desires.
Why else do Dwarves want mountain hexes?
Bandits want hexes near roads?
Adventurers want hexes near dungeons?
The Land Rush is in-game, it is PVP and it is RP.
Dwarves' players want mountain hexes because, when the game actually starts, it will suit their playstyle.
Bandits' players want hexes near roads because, when the game actually starts, it will suit their playstyle.
Adventurers' players want hexes near dungeons because, when the game actually starts, it will suit their playstyle.
The fact that they are aiming for practical hexes hardly makes this RP.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
Land Rush activities are both "In-Game" activities and they are in my opinion an expression of "in-character" designs or desires.
Why else do Dwarves want mountain hexes?
Bandits want hexes near roads?
Adventurers want hexes near dungeons?
The Land Rush is in-game, it is PVP and it is RP.
What is an "In-character" design and desire, and how does it differ from a player design or desire?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What is an "In-character" design and desire, and how does it differ from a player design or desire?
You ask yourself a question, "What will this character want and how would he go about getting it?"
I'm one player with multiple characters and each will have different desires and designs. If I role play them well enough, no one should be able to see that they are obviously played by the same person.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well to be honest no settlement belongs to anyone. It's a fair competition of who will own them issued by Goblinworks. No one has claimed anything as "theirs" till after tonight.
A minor correction, that doesn't really change your point, but Brighthaven (TEO), Callambea (Pax), and Phaeros (T7V) have already been guaranteed their current locations.
True enough Nihimon except those 3 :P
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Land Rush activities are both "In-Game" activities and they are in my opinion an expression of "in-character" designs or desires.
Why else do Dwarves want mountain hexes?
Bandits want hexes near roads?
Adventurers want hexes near dungeons?
The Land Rush is in-game, it is PVP and it is RP.
I can see that week 10 of the landrush might be considered in character, but I don't see how that can be true of the first nine weeks. Everything up to today was the players jockeying for starting positions, not the characters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, I would say you guys are Chaotic Neutral. You are certainly not Neutral Good, as you advertise.Kabal, you want X? Take it, you got the votes. We are considering our 2nd choice anyway...... <evil grin>Thinking about it. But if we get a few more votes, thinking about someplace else too. <sly grin, because, you know, we aren't evil>
So, by your definition, no one good can win a competition? No one good can use strategy? Especially strategy you don't understand? I guess for you good guys do finish last. Thankfully we don't all define good that way.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So, by your definition, no one good can win a competition? No one good can use strategy? Especially strategy you don't understand? I guess for you good guys do finish last. Thankfully we don't all define good that way.No, I would say you guys are Chaotic Neutral. You are certainly not Neutral Good, as you advertise.Kabal, you want X? Take it, you got the votes. We are considering our 2nd choice anyway...... <evil grin>Thinking about it. But if we get a few more votes, thinking about someplace else too. <sly grin, because, you know, we aren't evil>
In the end, alignment doesn't matter. You guys will get whatever spot you want with the numbers you have regardless of what anyone below you thinks or feels. Discussion on whether what you're doing is good/evil/chaotic is irrelevant.
Although, if there was a master fisherman alignment, Kabal would fit nicely there.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It's a game. A game in which the people who have the most backers get to pick their spot. To pretend that people who had more in the beginning have some inherent right to be left alone is counter to the spirit of the game.
Whether someone changes their mind because they come to a new understanding of the value of a particular resource, or because they agreed to bump someone to help somebody else, or because they like or hate the neighbours, doesn't matter.
The fact that Kabal turns every decision in to a question of style and feeds the piranah each time just makes them that much more cool.
Actually, I take it back. That bit about this being in-character makes a difference. I suppose an evil person (or even a chaotic neutral one) might look at a good person playing a contest seriously and wonder why that was okay but when they look out for number one people get mad at them. Of course, the answer is that even good people can compete in a contest so long as they're acting in good faith compliance with the rules of a competition that people are voluntarily participating in.
Of course, the answer is that even good people can compete in a contest so long as they're acting in good faith compliance with the rules of a competition that people are voluntarily participating in.
Ah, and I think that's the disconnect.
If we view this as an in-character event, there are still two ways to see it.
1. An in-character contest. Basically, what we're doing now, but in the game. So a game-within-a-game. This may be how Kabal sees it. In this view, Kabal is just playing "dirty"—no meaner than someone playing Monopoly competitively. So, they're basically the Devil.
2. An in-character landrush. This is how Bluddwolf sees it. In this view, Kabal is running rampant chasing people out of the homes they're trying to build. While not evil, this act would be pretty jackassy, and therefore probably not Neutral Good.
So it still comes down to whether we view it as a game or an in-character serious event. Personally, I'd like the latter, but it's pointless pushing for that when so many other roleplayers disagree.
Actually I disagree with that entirely. Playing within the rules is by definition not playing 'dirty'. Is any group with a good alignment obligated not to take a hex they have the numbers to take just because another group had it previously and doesn't want to give it up? What's the point of growing or being in the competition then if you're good? Suddenly, happening to have the numbers to hold a given spot on week five means you're "building a home"? OK. I guess after week one no one should move.
Eh, I don't regard playing "dirty" as cheating.* And I never said there was anything wrong with it. I think you misunderstood my post entirely.
*And don't link me the Idiom Dictionary, people. It's a pretty subjective phrase. I would regard someone who plays Risk and focuses solely on the weakest player, crushing them into the dust, as "playing dirty"—it's not exactly "playing clean", but it's a valid tactic.
If you prefer, we can call it "playing sassy".
That's fine. I'm not insulted. I just don't know what the heck the point was if it's ungood to take a spot after week one. Why bother participating if you're good? And I don't know what morally justifies the first comers other than they happen to have numbers on week one. I thought part of the point was to build players.
That's part of the reason I'm going with the game-in-game, "playing dirty sassy" interpretation for the landrush. Looking at it as an in-character roleplay makes Good groups like yours look rather Neutral.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Guess they claim a hex that they have the numbers to take in the first week and hold it and don't budge from it even if they later get the numbers to move to a better hex. Which alignment I would called Stupid Good. :-)
And hey, if someone wants the hex we are going to hold and can't take it from us, there is plenty of room to join us. We are all going to need multiple companies for the Tower Wars and the OE.
We have a nice ruling council that any company who joins us gets to be on. Since Kabal is currently just one company, any other companies who join us have a very powerful say in what we will do in the future.
Sorry deleted that post because I misunderstood KC.
We have a nice ruling council that any company who joins us gets to be on. Since Kabal is currently just one company, any other companies who join us have a very powerful say in what we will do in the future.
Y'know, it'd be interesting to see a breakdown on settlement organizations. Freevale has a very similar structure—each company gets a place on the Council, and there are two Council spots reserved to represent the free agents' interests. I think UNC has something like that as well (though the free agents thing might just be us).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
We have a nice ruling council that any company who joins us gets to be on. Since Kabal is currently just one company, any other companies who join us have a very powerful say in what we will do in the future.Y'know, it'd be interesting to see a breakdown on settlement organizations. Freevale has a very similar structure—each company gets a place on the Council, and there are two Council spots reserved to represent the free agents' interests. I think UNC has something like that as well (though the free agents thing might just be us).
Last I checked, it was any company with at least 5 members would have a seat. For the moment, free agents do not.
We have a nice ruling council that any company who joins us gets to be on. Since Kabal is currently just one company, any other companies who join us have a very powerful say in what we will do in the future.Y'know, it'd be interesting to see a breakdown on settlement organizations. Freevale has a very similar structure—each company gets a place on the Council, and there are two Council spots reserved to represent the free agents' interests. I think UNC has something like that as well (though the free agents thing might just be us).
Talonguard has always had the setup you've described.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If we view this as an in-character event, there are still two ways to see it.
This is where I personally disconnect with what seems to be a majority of people that regularly post on these forums. As far as I'm concerned absolutely NOTHING right now is in character. There are no characters. Just people sitting at a computer (or holding a phone/tablet) posting on forums, and saying things themselves. Characters don't come into play until characters exist in game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Right now the UNC has a four person council, and all of our divisions are under the big umbrella of the UNC. We have three sponsored companies, and they are completely autonomous.
Once in game each company that helped secure Aragon, will have one representative on the Settlement Council.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I know our leadership is going to be fluid, to adjust to the changing needs of the settlement. Probably only going to need one person in charge of gatherers, one person in charge of crafters. But will need 6+ people in charge of the various combat units, if combat is needed. Or however many for each small company going out to clear the escalations around us.
Ours is a two ring council. The big council with very few members, one for each company. The little council whose members I just described above.
And if that system doesn't work, we will do something else instead that will work.
If I learned anything from GoT its that it's too dangerous to be on the small Council.
If I learned anything from GoT its that it's too dangerous to be on the small Council.... Given I think you are the single person in the Kabal that has known me longest, I take that as a compliment.
As it was intended.
If I learned anything from GoT its that it's too dangerous to be on the small Council.I would of thought if you learned anything from GoT, it would be that f***ing people over has dire consequences.
Actually, I don't think GoT teaches that at all. The bad guys typically survive and the honorable die. What I really learned most was not to admit being related to Sean Bean in any damn way.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Personally, I have found Kabal's moves and coyness of intention to be rather amusing. Lacking the vision of benefit, from not knowing the whole picture, but I do not see much harm being done at all. Currently, Tavernhold is ranked in the top 10, so no hunker-down to lose. As for smaller groups losing hunker down bonus, many of them didn't even have one until recently due to their first picks. Really, any settlement that may have bumped is at least still getting a settlement.
Personally, I have found Kabal's moves and coyness of intention to be rather amusing.
I agree. Their plugs of self-promotion are particularly cute!