Is Summoners Relationship with Eidolon Evil or Wrong?

[Thelemic_Noun]

This thread. This thread is why normal people fear us.

...Let them fear.

[Bandw2]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Midnight_Angel wrote:

However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...

Well, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made permanent...

Now you've done it.

it's supposed to be a kid's show

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, there is a magical item, that allows worshipers of Lamashtu to interbreed with animal within one size category.

No polymorph spells/effects needed.

[Kerney]

Sexual relations is with an Eidolon is not necessarily not evil, wrong, squiky, sad or whatever.

This thread is all of those things.

Carry on.

Spoiler:

The humor value has increased so I'm no longer for closing this thread.

[DM Under The Bridge]

This thread has multiclassed into squiky sad. It's alignment is still under debate.

[Poldaran]

chaoseffect wrote:

I don't really see how it's any more viable then roaming around killing s*#& for their money as per most adventurers. And those guys end up richer than Bill Gates in the long run, as per the rules.

I don't know if I'd say it's that far. They seem like they'd be more along the lines of a Powerball winner at 20th if we're comparing their ability to buy bread at retail price.

And while you might have to murderhobo quite a few villains to get there, at least you wouldn't be selling your own children.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

The one Summoner that I played had sex with his eidolon in his dreams. It was often a representation of their strong, magical bond. Sometimes they did it just for fun. The eidolon's summonable form was a giant wolf. But in the Summoner's dreams he manifested as an atrractive, humanoid wolfman (or wolfgirl).

[Wicked Woodpecker of the West]

You know I'm gonna GM-ing my first d20 soon, and one of the players wanna play summoner. First I wanted to refuse him, because as much as I love some core classes PF versions, as much I'm not really fun of specific PF classes especially that we're playing in Toril. Then I agreed, and now I know that for sure in my world eidolons won't be IN ANY WAY sentient or something. Just pieces of planar energy formed by summoner arcane/psychic power.

[Vincent Takeda]

I'm not sure which is more squicky. The folks who are willing to stretch the concept of this kind of thing to the limits of all possible fanciful extremes...

Or the person who wants them not to be sentient...

At least with a sentient eidolon you have the ability to say that they're cheerful and willing as part of your character concept, and want to play a totally loving and trusting bond.

Forcing a person to relive that concept as 'your eidolon is a transplanar real doll' seems to really sell the concept short. This way the real squickiness lay.

I'd rather have a character at my table play out the close affections and adorations of a truly dynamic bond than hear the lines:

'I'm getting all hot and bothered. As an evolutionist summoner i'm afraid the furby isnt doing it for me anymore.. I'm spending the 1000gp today... come hither teddy ruxpin!

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, you also don't know how an Eidolon has it's "parts" put together.

You may see a Summoner high-fiving his Eidolon, and not realize how intimate that act is.

[Sadurian]

I play a shapeshifting Druid/(True Primitive) Barbarian/Nature Warden. Her race is okami (a 3rd-party wolf variant of the kitsune), and I have agreed with the GM that her base form is actually that of a dire wolf rather than a wolf-man. It's a sort of werewolf variation constructed to fit the thematic concept of an isolated wolf-spirit barbarian tribe infected by lycanthropy for generations.

Anyhow. She has an animal companion that is a male dire wolf, and it is known to the group that the wolf is also her mate (in the pairing sense, rather than sharing beer and jokes). This is not explicitly described and is not dwelt upon, it is just part of the character concept that makes her more interesting.

No, I'm not a 'furry', and no, I'm not an oversexed and confused teenager. Introducing sex/relationships to the game can be a valid way to build character background and colour in the two-dimensional collection of numbers on the character sheet.

If you shape your character description to your gaming group then I see no problem with describing your character being sexually active (albeit, without the gory anatomical details - if you need to describe the requirement for a prestidigation spell then you're going too far). The big problem would be doing so where the group is not comfortable with such a description, but you can generally judge that on a case-by-case basis. If you can't make that judgement, then maybe you want to keep the information on the character description and not bring it up at each session!

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Cuthel wrote:

I joined a game at a local game store with some player not in my regular group and one was playing a summoner who had a fey type Eidolon, described as an female elf with wings or a large pixie. I thought nothing of it until night when we made camp and The summoner brought his Eidolon into his tent and he had it sleep with him.

So is having sex with a humanoid looking Eidolon Ok, evil, or maybe just a little weird?

Okay, what's supposed to happen in this situation is that the next character over (ideally the Paladin) shouts into the Summoner's tent: "We all know what you're doing in there - quit monster-baiting!"

[DM Under The Bridge]

He's soloing the dungeon, quick! Rush in and help.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed an unhelpful post and the responses to it.

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

DM Under The Bridge wrote:

He's soloing the dungeon

I am so going to use that euphemism!

[chaoseffect]

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:

DM Under The Bridge wrote:

He's soloing the dungeon

I am so going to use that euphemism!

I never go in alone.

[Sadurian]

This thread reminded me of an old Fantasy trope, that of the beautiful humanoid extra-planar being enslaved by the evil wizard for his pleasure.

That might work as an NPC Summoner/Eidolon relationship and see the Eidolon help the PCs in small ways to kill the Summoner, but probably isn't a suitable scenario for PC Summoners in most games.

[DM Under The Bridge]

You have to stop the evil wizard before he works out how to make Queen of the water spirits "hard", or rather soft and supple but firm.

In the climactic boss battle, the wizard hurls rays of his failed designed spells that didn't make the grade and work how he wanted. Turning the players into floppy softness (bye bye str), rock-hard (farewell dex and movement) and misty (save vs. becoming perspiration).

[Wicked Woodpecker of the West]

Or the person who wants them not to be sentient...
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Hey, soon you're gonna have sentient-eidolon option. It will be called spritualist ;)

Forcing a person to relive that concept as 'your eidolon is a transplanar real doll' seems to really sell the concept short. This way the real squickiness lay.
-----------------
It make it different from other companion thingy's. And familiars. And Spiritualist stuff. Formless, unconcious piece of astral energy shaped by summoner mind. Of course while being on Prime, eidolon should act like being Summoner shape it into.

So maybe not totally doll, but also without any original, own personality agenda. Not a spirit, not a monster, not an outsider. Something else.

I'd rather have a character at my table play out the close affections and adorations of a truly dynamic bond than hear the lines:
---------------------------------
Nah, it's not close affection kind of guy. Anyway I have six players, horde of statted NPC's, really playing close bond with your astral pokemon isn't necessary for role-playing. And I really want to give summoner much different taste that familiars/companion animals/so on.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...

Unless the witch is a Scarred Witch Doctor, I can't imagine that being too much of a problem.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Wicked Woodpecker of the West wrote:

And I really want to give summoner much different taste that familiars/companion animals/so on.

You could treat them as more akin to psicrystals. The Eidolon represents an exaggerated part of the summoners personality. Possibly leading to some minor conflicts but nothing too terrible. So while the Eidalon is the same alignment as the summoner as an outsider it always takes those alignments a step further.

Say a good aligned Eidolon is more merciful then the player, refusing to finish off disabled or helpless foes. While the evil aligned Eidolon is vicious and without mercy refusing to spare foes even if his master wants them alive.