Is Summoners Relationship with Eidolon Evil or Wrong?


Advice

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Not everyone is made for that rabbit hole...
That's what lubrication is for...

Damn it BBT! My brain went there!


How are people STILL arguing about this subject?

Shadow Lodge

Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
How are people STILL arguing about this subject?

Occasionally. Mostly they are making jokes. Question has been answered. Recomend closing the thread.


Kerney wrote:
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
How are people STILL arguing about this subject?
Recomend closing the thread.

Second said motion.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
KingmanHighborn wrote:
It's not evil, it is kinda weird outside of the bipedal form...an...maybe serpentine if...naga like...eh *shrugs* Not the weirdest thing I've heard, and it wouldn't of bothered me much.

A non-biped eidolon presents the summoner with the "mermaid problem" -- and gives him an incentive to gain power so that he can magically deal with that issue....


OP wrote:
Evil or wrong?

Neither, of course. It's weevil. (Or "rong", but that's not a word, even though it sounds exactly like one of your options, which I will conveniently ignore, along with the fact that I had to add another "e" to make this joke work. Dang it.)


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"So is having sex with a humanoid looking Eidolon Ok, evil, or maybe just a little weird?"

I actually don't care how the eidolon looks - I mean, the summoners and eidolons kink is their business. As far as I can see the potential issue is consent. An eidolon is an intelligent creature and therefore theoretically capable of consenting, but on the subject of orders and control:

the SRD wrote:
Eidolons: Outside the linear obedience and intelligence scale of sentient and nonsentient companions are eidolons: intelligent entities magically bound to you. Whether you wish to roleplay this relationship as friendly or coerced, the eidolon is inclined to obey you unless you give a command only to spite it. An eidolon would obey a cruel summoner's order to save a child from a burning building, knowing that at worst the fire damage would temporarily banish it, but it wouldn't stand in a bonfire just because the summoner said to. An eidolon is normally a player-controlled companion, but the GM can have the eidolon refuse extreme orders that would cause it to suffer needlessly.

It's possible to portray an eidolon as being an equal partner with the summoner. It's also possible to play the eidolon as a slave. Or anywhere in between. This makes the question of whether the eidolon can give consent or not rather complicated. As such, a sexual relationship between summoner and eidolon has a high potential to be abusive. Or in system terms, it's quite likely to be evil.

To approach it from another angle, what does a relationship of this sort add to the game for the other players? It adds a reason to discuss ethics, consent, and slavery, and it adds a non-zero chance of PvP. If you don't want to handle those things at table, then probably don't allow this at table.

Grand Lodge

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Well, a Witch can just cast Alter Self on their Pig Familiar, and make sweet love to a member of their own race.

In the end, they are still porking a pig.


However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...


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Its possible to portray an eidolon as being an equal partner with the summoner. This makes the question of whether the Eidolon can give (or withhold) consent or not rather simple. It can. As such a sexual relationship between the summoner and eidolon is nomore complicated and suffers no more potential to be abusive than any other relationship real or imagined.

Having played one what it added to the table was even the semblance of a character concept. Everyone else in the party was some cookie cutter minmaxing murderhobo with no backstory. My character was the only one at the table that had a palpable sense of 'being'. Having motivaition outside of killin and lootin. Plus a fair bit of comedy. And zero pvp. I'm not sure why pvp would come up in this discussion unless theres a paladin at the table, in which case the likelyhood of pvp is closer to tacitly absolute but not due to the possibility of a non consenting eidolon.


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TLDR: Not my fault if some folk's patronas turned out to be a donkey. If thats what you're in to.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This is my new second favorite thread.

Not quite as awesome as the "succubus in a grapple" thread, but since this thread doesn't contain succubi and grapples, that was a given.

...And now I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of a succubus eidolon...


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Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...

"I'm not finished!" said the witch.

"Oink oink" said the pig.

Extend spell was taken next level.


Vincent Takeda wrote:

Its possible to portray an eidolon as being an equal partner with the summoner. This makes the question of whether the Eidolon can give (or withhold) consent or not rather simple. It can. As such a sexual relationship between the summoner and eidolon is nomore complicated and suffers no more potential to be abusive than any other relationship real or imagined.

Having played one what it added to the table was even the semblance of a character concept. Everyone else in the party was some cookie cutter minmaxing murderhobo with no backstory. My character was the only one at the table that had a palpable sense of 'being'. Having motivaition outside of killin and lootin. Plus a fair bit of comedy. And zero pvp. I'm not sure why pvp would come up in this discussion unless theres a paladin at the table, in which case the likelyhood of pvp is closer to tacitly absolute but not due to the possibility of a non consenting eidolon.

Great to hear that. In a party of otherwise murderhobo maximizers, a character with an actual identity and rp presence really stands out. Seen it before, the truth of it cannot be denied. The murderhobos probably thought their builds and high modifiers would make their characters great, mighty, unique and impart presence at the table. How wrong they were.


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Just gonna leave THIS here before threadlock.


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Why would the thread be locked? We are still on topic.

Grand Lodge

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Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...

Well, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made permanent...


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Brox RedGloves wrote:
Just gonna leave THIS here before threadlock.

Thanks, that's one of mine. :D

For Synthesist Summoner, clearly the summoner is suspended within the eidolon's body, which is a whole other bag of fetishes. ^.^

Grand Lodge

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Synthesist on Synthesist action?


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Syn is in.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...
Well, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made permanent...

Now you've done it.


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Midnight_Angel wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...
Well, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made permanent...
Now you've done it.

Anthropig familiar in a relationship with a Grippli Witch.

Grand Lodge

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Midnight_Angel wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...
Well, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made permanent...
Now you've done it.

I bet you can squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!


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Midnight_Angel wrote:
However, the spell duration might be a tad on the short side...

Maybe at first level... should be fine by level two.


Suddenly my character getting his eidolon when he in secret, trying to impress other rich pompous academy students, practiced summoning familiars caused a rift and summoned elementals and one of them reached out and saved him from the chaos, only to serve him later as butter seams not weird in the slightest.

I always found one thing weird though. Eidolons start with 7 INT. That's a bit on the dumb side...


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Keydan wrote:


I always found one thing weird though. Eidolons start with 7 INT. That's a bit on the dumb side...

Ah but when your IQ is 170 the perceptible difference between 70 and 130 becomes negligible.


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This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.


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joeyfixit wrote:
This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.

Did you ever read the one with the DM asking what he should do about his Druid player who wanted to Wild Shape and impregnate animals?


chaoseffect wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.
Did you ever read the one with the DM asking what he should do about his Druid player who wanted to Wild Shape and impregnate animals?

Lol I remember that, he wanted a get rich quick scheme impregnating animals and didn't want to bother paying for or finding studs :P


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Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.
Did you ever read the one with the DM asking what he should do about his Druid player who wanted to Wild Shape and impregnate animals?
Lol I remember that, he wanted a get rich quick scheme impregnating animals and didn't want to bother paying for or finding studs :P

To be fair, you could breed mounts like no one's business. That's a big money industry.

Also *intense vomiting*


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.
Did you ever read the one with the DM asking what he should do about his Druid player who wanted to Wild Shape and impregnate animals?
Lol I remember that, he wanted a get rich quick scheme impregnating animals and didn't want to bother paying for or finding studs :P

To be fair, you could breed mounts like no one's business. That's a big money industry.

Also *intense vomiting*

Except you'd be missing the "quick" part of get rich quick. He'd still have to feed and shelter the animals all through pregnancy, birth all the animals, then raise and train them. No matter which animal you pick that's going to be several months in game time before you see any form of turn out.


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Thomas Long 175 wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
This is without a doubt the squickiest start of a thread I've ever seen on the boards here.
Did you ever read the one with the DM asking what he should do about his Druid player who wanted to Wild Shape and impregnate animals?
Lol I remember that, he wanted a get rich quick scheme impregnating animals and didn't want to bother paying for or finding studs :P

To be fair, you could breed mounts like no one's business. That's a big money industry.

Also *intense vomiting*

Except you'd be missing the "quick" part of get rich quick. He'd still have to feed and shelter the animals all through pregnancy, birth all the animals, then raise and train them. No matter which animal you pick that's going to be several months in game time before you see any form of turn out.

Well hold on now, a wildshaped Druid would be like the strongest horse in the universe. Smart too. You could sell the offspring as deluxe mounts to nobles and such. They can understand common and follow complex instructions if you pass on some of your Int to the kids.

So not Get Rich Quick, but Get Filthy Rich. Also, if you're the kind of person who'd do this, you'd probably enjoy breeding with horses so... there's that I guess.


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Doesn't mean the genes are strong.

The druid might actually be rather weak genetically. Or, dm simply counters it by saying, yes you shapechange into a fantastic stallion, and you are infertile "stud".


DM Under The Bridge wrote:

Doesn't mean the genes are strong.

The druid might actually be rather weak genetically. Or, dm simply counters it by saying, yes you shapechange into a fantastic stallion, and you are infertile "stud".

I would say if the DM needs to bend the universe to stop you, then it was a viable business plan in the first place.


I don't really see how it's any more viable then roaming around killing s~+# for their money as per most adventurers. And those guys end up richer than Bill Gates in the long run, as per the rules.


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chaoseffect wrote:
I don't really see how it's any more viable then roaming around killing s%%# for their money as per most adventurers. And those guys end up richer than Bill Gates in the long run, as per the rules.

Yes, but then you don't get to see the wizard's squicked out face everytime you rejoin the party after visiting town.

"Hey... umm Larry... How's the business holding up?"

"Great Bob! Clara apparently got pregnant last night and I already lined up potential buyers! Yep was a long night *smirk* You should stop by some time!"

"uhh... that's okay Larry, I'll... I'll pass."


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Well, a Witch can just cast Alter Self on their Pig Familiar, and make sweet love to a member of their own race.

In the end, they are still porking a pig.

Metaphorically speaking, a great many of us have been there.


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If only the summoner had an archetype that used Int instead of Cha for spellcasting and skill and ability checks vs. outsiders.

I have a mental image of such a summoner who point-bought his Charisma down to 7 and is so bad with women that pity-dating a class feature was a step up.


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Oh, here's another one: if the new Naturalist archetype goes with a humanoid eidolon, the Animal Focus ability can be used to, on a whim, convert that humanoid into any of twelve different furries. ^.^


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And at 20th level, the Twin Eidolon class feature would permit the summoner to break out of their rut and do a little experimenting.


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Thelemic_Noun wrote:
And at 20th level, the Twin Eidolon class feature would permit the summoner to break out of their rut and do a little experimenting.

Transmogrify does the same for experimentation, though at 1,000 gold a pop. Realistically if your Summoner has diverse appetites, the Evolutionist or Broodmaster would be best, or perhaps the Master Summoner for when you really need to nail an angel and a succubus at the same time.


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Um, Twin Eidolon turns the summoner into a duplicate of their eidolon. It doesn't summon two eidolons.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The twin eidolon feature does ensure that summoner and eidolon compatible, assuming that the two are allowed to differ in "cosmetic details" such as sex.


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David knott 242 wrote:
The twin eidolon feature does ensure that summoner and eidolon compatible, assuming that the two are allowed to differ in "cosmetic details" such as sex.

What part of "break out of their rut" and "do a little experimenting" do you not understand?!!


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How is this thread still going?


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Because it was inevitable, here's an eidolon build for 20th, pretty much expressly for the purpose.

(It assumes no archetypes, a half-elf's favored class bonus and the maximum number of Extra Evolution feats. If not, drop the spell-like abilities).

Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Perception, Sense Motive

Feats: Acrobatic, Chokehold, Endurance, Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple, Improved Natural Attack (slam), Persuasive, Sleeper Hold

Evolutions:

  • Ability Increase (Charisma) x4, because of course you would. Don't lie to me.
  • Ability Increase (Intelligence) x2, because this is weird enough without your partner having Int 7.
  • Fast Healing 1, in case things get out of hand. Also powers the Sacrifice ability.
  • Sacrifice, in case someone forgets the safe word.
  • No Breath, so the eidolon doesn't need the safe word. Also good for ****, *********, and ****.
  • Skilled (Acrobatics), to get into positions they otherwise couldn't.
  • Skilled (Escape Artist), to get out of positions they otherwise couldn't.
  • Slam, because fake nails cause enough problems on their own even if they didn't deal 1d6 slashing damage.
  • Basic Magic (ghost sound), for a little music to set the mood. Or a laugh track. Whatever.
  • Minor Magic (obscuring mist), for privacy and to stop pesky UVa and UVb rays ruining your complexion.
  • Major Magic (lesser restoration), to remove fatigue.
  • Ultimate Magic (create food and water), because everyone will need snacks eventually.

    I didn't include the Large evolution, but evolution surge provides it for twenty minutes at a time if you want to go there. Good luck.


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    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Chokehold, Endurance, Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple

    Oh me oh my


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    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    I think this thread was just won.

    Is that still a thing? Do people still win threads? Because if so, Thelemic just did so with flair.

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