Lord Vukodlak's page

... and so one of my player's is carrying around ghoul dust in his pocket, do you think touching this stuff would/should be enough to have him roll fortitude saves?

Answer me this if you didn't rule that destroyed undead turned to dust what would be the effects of clubbing someone with a ghoul femur? or stabbing someone with a ghoul's sharpened humerus

I've actually seen some theories on how to weaponize this.

One person I've discussed it with, actually proposed rapidly erecting a building /around/ a vampire's mausoleum or resting place while keeping said mausoleum or resting place notably separate from the new dwelling, thus perpetually trapping the vampire within.

One particular lunatic insisted on taking the vampire's coffin, opening the top and propping it up against someone's front door as a means to keep the vampire trapped in his coffin.

Seems silly if you found the mausoleum just knock it down and help him greet the sun. Really it seem like you aren't weaponizing the weaknesses so much as using them to troll a vampire,

Switch to the slow xp track.

Best wish backfire ever.

A rather immature player had his character wish for the ability to become irresistible to women, now this was actually from a wish granting entity...

So when ever the player would say the magic word... I can't recall what it was Shazam maybe? Anyway he'd say the command word and "poof" he'd turn into a baby, or a kitten, maybe a teacup pig.

If you go back to the original lore the reason a vampire(and hosts of other supernatural beings) can't enter a home without invitation was the home was considered sacred ground.

Aelryinth wrote:

and losing HP at negative HP. Technically, you go right to 0 and then you're up the next round from a negative total.

==Aelryinth

Actually, fast healing stops helping much when you dying if you read the rules: After all Fast Heal is natural healing.

Huh, they changed the fast heal rules to work while dying in PF. It didn't in 3.5.

In 3.0 fast healing ceased functioning if you were below 0 hp.

Why not just take the rapid reload and/or crossbow mastery feats? Reloading a clip becomes a free action. You don't even need a repeating x-bow in fact.

Because his class makes him proficient with the repeating crossbow. If he's human he won't be able to take crossbow master until level 7, and that assumes he skips precise shot(not a good idea) and deadly aim.

Picking up a repeating crossbow once he can afford one doesn't prevent him from taking crossbow mastery in the future and it doesn't cost him any additional feats so why not.

One thing I found with Bag's of Holding is... the volume limit largely irrelevant because you'll almost always reach the weight limit first. Unless you're filling it with empty containers you'll reach the weight limit long before the volume limit.

Have a really really old version of one of the PC's travel back in time, touch his past self before vanishing. This contact gives the player or perhaps the whole party dreams and or visions of the future.
The visions then give the party clues as to what they need to do in order to prevent the apocalypse. The traveler doesn't even need to travel it could simply be a spell or a ritual that let them send a message into the past. This keeps the central focus on the PC and does away with the all important NPC all together.

Look at the rules for craft, its based on weekly or daily progress does that make any since when preparing a roasted pheasant with whiskey sauce? No it doesn't.

Officially cook is a profession skill, its on the list.
"The most common Profession skills are architect, baker, barrister, brewer, butcher, clerk, cook""

Mithral was in the 3.0 SRD, Creating Magic Items section. It isn't an invention of the 3.5 edition. The Mithral Shirt and Elven Chain origins are much earlier, 1st edition D&D had Elven Chain.

I don't know if there were examples given in the DMG (where this would have been found for 3.0).

I never said it was an invention of 3.5. Mithral was indeed in even earlier editions that however isn't relevant because 3.5 is the edition on which Pathfinder is based.

Except for ONE LINE about armor proficiency it's copied and pasted out of the 3.5 SRD. So how it worked in 3.5 "armor proficiency" aside is very relevant because paizo didn't change anything else.

Look at the actual description of hireling entry and it says the price range is 1gp to 3gp perday. If the table and the entry are in conflict the entry wins.
The answer is the table is wrong.

Also the weekly money making rules from profession and craft skill are intended for PC's and shouldn't be applied to NPC's. Its not intended as a RL simulation but to at least give the skill profession some contribution other then flavor.

Well animate dead and many other undead creation spells require mostly intact remains. I don't imagine a skeleton or zombie that's been beaten back to death is going to have mostly intact remains anymore.

Lets look at the origins, namely 3.5. The entry in mithral in 3.5 SRD is identical to the one today in Pathfinder except for the line about it not counting towards armor proficiency. Like much of the ported rules it was a copy paste job.

But like many things in he 3.5 SRD the printed material actually had more information, they gave a barbarian's fast movement as an example of a limitation. Thus a Barbarian wearing mithral full plate could still use his fast movement.
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.(for example, whether a barbarian can use her fast movement ability while wearing the armor or not)."

So a class ability was called out as an example of a limitation mithral removed.

Specific magic items like elven chainmail and the mithral fullplate of speed called out the armors as being treated as one category lighter. These items were later copied and pasted into pathfinder.

The Feycraft armor template couldn't be applied to heavy armor, however it called out the exemption for mithral heavy armor which counted as medium.

In 3.5 in every way mithral counted as a armor category lighter. But then Paizo comes along and adds two sentences about it not applying to armor proficiency and suddenly people take that ball and run with it.

They called out ONE exemption in the paizo rule book. ONE and that was armor proficiency. Thus mithral is counts as a lighter type of armor in all respects.

You just need an illusion to make the weapons look obviously plastic.... then you just claim your LARPing if stopped by the cops.

I suppose one could do a full withdrawl to exit the threatened area... then stop flapping and let gravity take over.

If it was born on the material plane, it should be an outsider with the native subtype.

Making banishment or dismissal ineffective.

A native outsider has to eat sleep and breathe which doesn't make sense for an elemental. Native is a subtype for the mortal descendants of outsiders.

Elementals like all outsiders are are made from the essence of there respective planes. So yes banishment should work on an elemental no matter where it was created unless your on the corresponding elemental plane. Being made from the essence of another plane of existent should exclude the possibility of it being native to anywhere else. Just like having the evil subtype means holy weapons hurt regardless of your actual alignment,

Unfortunately you can't assume they meant it a certain way as RAW.

By RAW you cannot avoid the AoO entering a square if the opponent can make an AoO on you.

According to the acrobatics skill by RAW you can you can avoid the AoO from moving [u]through an enemy's square[/u] by making a DC 5 + the opponent's CMD. Moving though an opponents square REQUIRES ENTERING IT.

So again I ask how can acrobatics allow you to move through an opponents space without provoking an AoO but suddenly fail when you stop within said space.

wraithstrike wrote:

Scavion wrote:

Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.

Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.

However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.

That magic item says " as well as inhaled poisons" which shows the the listed spells are not inhaled poisons. What the item does is purify "all harmful vapors and gases". It does not say you are" immune to all harmful vapors and gases that you breathe".

The item creates a pocket of air for you to breathe. You do not breathe in the Stinking Cloud, thus it does not effect you. It could then be reasonably deduced that holding one's breathe would have a similar effect.

Holding your breath doesn't stop the cloud from touching your skin, or getting into your eyes.

The Necklace of Adaptation wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air not just his head which is why it works on cloudkill which explicitly says
"Holding one's breath doesn't help" So the item doesn't prove answers one way or another. Stinking cloud doesn't say holding your breath doesn't help but it also doesn't say it does help.

So would holding your breath work on Stinking Cloud maybe? but as the OP points out it only has a 50% chance of stopping an inhaled poison. Furthermore when the mage first casts the spell the effects are immediate so you wouldn't get to hold your breath until your turn.

What you need to clarify is "What is special about the first round of combat that doesn't apply to latter rounds, in IC terms?"

The answer is there is always surprise, initiative decides who acts first so it also decides whose perception check succeeded first. If the Orc has an initiative of 15 and you have an initiative of 10 then the enemy spotted you first and thus has the advantage that round. Even if you both rounded the corner and bumped into each other. The signal enemy attack reached the brain of one combatant first.

If you want to eliminate using wands of CLW after every battle.... first you need to set up encounters in such a way so the PC's don't feel the need to do it. If you lost half your hit points exiting encounter one you are going to want some of those back before encounter too.

By RAW there is no way to counter the AOO for entering an occupied square.It is a special trigger that was not listed on the AOO chart, and it is not movement per se.

Which is ridiculous because you can move through an occupied square using acrobatics but you can't stop in the occupied square? Where is an AoO listed for staying in an opponents square.

I think the item would change possession, a returning weapon "flies" through the air back to the creature that threw it, the following round. It doesn't teleport so it'd have to escape #2's grasp.

You can take this further what if character #2 catches the weapon and then teleports away? The weapon won't return until just before #1's next turn but how does it do it over that distance and possibly through solid objects.

Like Slim, I think if you are glued to the chair you probably have to take it with you... or leave the clothes that are glued to the chair behind as the goo made them a single object.

Eliminating confirmation rolls also eliminates the drama of seeing a critical threat... will it succeed or fail.

A lot can depend on the style of the adventure too. You may find that after removing critical confirmation rolls encounters become a bit more difficult.Chances are the PC's face more critical threats then they dish out.

For my E6 campaign which has a 1600's era setting. Early firearms are priced at 10%.(advanced do not exist) I also increased the range increment by 50%(scatter shot not effected) However the armor penetration is only six points of armor instead of all.

So while guns are much more common they don't completely negate the PC's defenses. Gunslingers also get gun training at level one instead of the gunsmithing feat.

The Nagi

Appearance and Physiology
From the waist up Nagi are almost indistinguishable from a human though lacking a bellybutton. Below the waist Nagi are serpentine possessing the lower body of a snake usually shaded green but brown is not uncommon. Their eyes come in shades of amber, blue, green and on rare occasion violet. Nagi hair comes in the same colors as humans with the exclusion of black hair and the addition of violet and blue shades. While Nagi share many characteristics with reptilian creatures such as scales and are ovoviviparous they are warm-blooded and nurse their young. Nagi are pregnant for just over ten months and almost always give birth to fraternal twins.

Society
The Nagi are a rather reclusive preferring limited contact with outsiders choosing only a few representatives to trade with other races and very rarely do they allow non-Nagi into there hidden villages. Elves are the most common exception due to similar lifespans and reputation for being reclusive. Halflings are the second most common exception because no one ever gives a damn about Halflings. They prefer to establish communities in warm forests or deep underground near thermic vents due to the difficulties in sheathing their lower bodies in warm clothing. Some believe their communities can be found underneath a few major human cities but the Nagi refute this assertion claiming the smell of wererats would be to unbearable. The Nagi highly value magic and most Nagi communities are ruled by a Magocracy. They also have a love of fine foods and drink and are prone to overindulging which is perhaps the only reason their hidden enclaves trade with outsiders.

Standard Racial Traits
• Ability Score Racial Traits: Nagi are physically strong and manipulative but tend be rash and easily swayed by their passions. They gain +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, and –2 Wisdom
• Size: Nagi are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Type: Nagi are monstrous humanoids.
• Base Speed: Nagi have a base speed of 20 feet, but their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance, they also possess a swim speed of 20ft giving them a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. Nagi can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. They can also use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.
• Hold Breath: Nagi can hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to four times their Constitution score before risking drowning or suffocating.
• Languages: Nagi begin play speaking Common and Nagi. Nagi with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following, Akio, Draconic, Dwarven, Eleven, Giant, Sylvan and Undercommon. See the Linguistics skill page for more information about these languages.

Defense Racial Traits
• Armored Scales: The Nagi's scaly lower body provides +1 natural armor bonus, this stacks with the natural armor bonus provided by a sorcerer's bloodline.
• Legless: Nagi's have the upper body of a human and the lower body of a snake and are thus immune to trip however they can not wear any item occupying the foot slot and armor costs twice as much as it must be adapted to their body structure.(yes they lack a magic item slot that is an intentional disadvantage)

Magical Traits
• Enclave Protector: The Nagi have a +1 to the caster level of any abjuration spells they cast. Nagi also gain the following spell-like abilities: constant—nondetection; 1/day—faerie fire, obscure object, sanctuary. The caster level for these effects is equal to the Nagi's character level.

Senses Racial Traits
• Darkvision: Nagi have darkvision out to 60ft

Nagi, male
7ft.1in. 230lbs. 1d10 ×5lbs.
Nagi, female
6ft.10in. 195lbs. 1d10 ×5lbs.
Nagi typical "stand" no taller then your average human but their body length is significantly longer which is whats represented in the table.

A walking creature caught in a fireball can still walk fine. Why should a harpies wings burst into flames and prevent her from flying? Its just not how the game works. Severe burns on your legs would preventing someone from walking just as well as burning the feathers of a bird's wings. Is your adventuring group entirely bald because all their hair would burn off every time they were caught in a fireball?

If a fireball is going to set a harpies wings on fire its only fair it set a human's head on fire.

A prison where the more powerful inmates are subject to a special Geas to prevent anyone inmate from leaving until they're sentience expires. Not only could you have special casters forcibly compelled not escape they'd also act as guards.

The previous group of adventurers carted back treasure that wasn't created by the artifact. Then they sealed the city split the key into three pieces and agreed (except for one) that there was no point ever going back.

Quote:

They must be pretty strong to have several million GP at level 6...they DO have to carry it OUT of the city, and after that they have to get OFF the island.

The flooding occurs 72 hours after the gates are opened, when the party arrives they should have 66 hours as the cult is 6 hours a head of them. There is more then enough time to complete the adventure(resting in the city is going to happen two or three times) and then strip gold off the walls near the entrance and haul it outside the city gates.

(if it was possible for the gold to leave the city).

If they somehow got it OUT of the city they could work out a way to haul it back home. Use the first trip to buy a portable hole then come back for the rest. Also the flood of gold recedes and after three days the ruins are habitable again.
Getting treasure out of the city is the only obstacle to unlimited wealth.

Bioboygamer wrote:

I've just realised a use for the Massive amount of gems and gold in the city:

Spell components.

Wish, anyone?

And if the party was 17th level that might be possible... but they're 6th level.

Starbuck_II wrote:

Can you point that out? Because I don't see where it says that gold isn't use in crafting magic items.

Every single item creation feat as the following line.

"To create a wondrous item, you must use up raw materials costing half of its base price."

Quote:

Bags of holding might allow this as a full sized bag of holding can carry 75,000 gold pieces if 50 gold to a lbs.

Also not sure how Extra Dimensional spaces would work when it is time for it to be blinked back.

It either blink out when they left the city or blink out the moment it left the bag.

Find a safe place in the city and use the Jewel of Everlasting Gold to craft a bunch of magic items. Then leave the city with completely customized loot!

That doesn't work, gold isn't transmuted into magic items its used to buy raw materials to make the magic items. The city has been in ruins for centuries there are no shops to buy the raw materials from. The city also sits on an island aptly named the Isle of Terror due to the frequent storms of negative energy.

Or do away with the rule that anything taken from the city returns. That's pretty easy to rule on and explains pretty much why people leave rich. Even loaded down with gold, the players are not going to make much of a dent in what's there.

Allowing the players to have a couple million gold at level six is an entirely different problem. The city is literally not figuratively PAVED with gold.

So remove that problem if you want them to have loot. Do you plan on using the characters in the future?

If he wasn't planning on using the characters in the future it wouldn't matter how much treasure they got. Its the conclusion of a three module adventure path that takes characters from level 1 to level 6.

Coalford, I'm currently running this adventure path with my group and they are just inside the third ring. The city being filled with wealth that's completely useless is part of the theme. Its an avarice/Orange Lantern kind of message.
Hell the back cover says "The Price of Greed"

As I recall from the second module in the adventure path the cultists in the temple had a good deal of treasure in both gear, gems and art objects. Some adventures skimp on treasure some are loaded with it. The fact the city of gold skimps on loot just makes it ironic.

If you want to add more treasure allow the PC's to find an armory or some vault containing treasure not made of gold so its obviously lootable. Just remember treasure value doesn't have to escalate every adventure.

- Halfling Gunslinger, using slings - the hook of this one is less flavor and more mechanics, since as he is unable to have full iteratives with a sling, he clusters all of his iterative attacks in one big hit -- or is able to ricochet them against several enemies simultaneously. Being able to use several types of bullets is also a hallmark of this archie.

Given that its an archtype couldn't it have an ability to load slings faster? Furthermore the alternate racial trait for Halflings "Warslinger" lets them reload slings as a free action.

Just two things to consider when designing the archtype.

A really smart and insidious Big Bad would find a way to spin the tragedy for General Uno as being due to rebels/terrorists/traitors conspiring to hide from General Dos the fact that General Uno's family member was there. The Big Bad gets the benefit of retaining the services of both, while ensuring that the two (who will still hate and fear each other) will never cooperate in any conspiracy to overthrow the Big Bad. As a bonus, they get the excuse to go trash some other town on suspicion of harboring said rebel/terrorist/traitor conspiracy, or even just to increase surveillance and general oppression on everyone.

General Dos still burned the entire city to the ground and executed everyone. There is no way to spin that in a good way to please Uno unless that spin is your welcome to Dos's head. He already knows Dos did it to kill any possible rebels in the town doesn't change the fact a beloved family member is dead.

What you purpose is the same spin Palpatine tried that when he blew up Alderaan. It didn't stop tens of thousands of Imperial officers from Alderaan from defecting to the rebellion. Your spin also completely ruins the story why bother with the background if the story didn't actually change anything. Instead of an interesting dynamic you have no dynamic.

I do like some ideas in it actually, it works well with the idea I am using for the class. Its a class called the Harlequinn made by green smashomancer . Part of the idea where there's some force who gave her the power works nicely , but her being controlled by it is a part I most likely won't be using maybe said power more inspired this plan of hers. Point being it gets me think and if you wanna keep throwing ideas out feel free cause I need inspiration for important characters.

Oh you misunderstand its not controlling her its manipulating her. It opens up an avenue of "victory" where they simply prove the jewel is in fact a trap that will destroy her. She'd still have her evil empire and could pursue other avenues to godhood.

But here's some ideas for other important characters

First you have General Uno, a high ranking commander in the army of the Big Bad. Years ago there was a small town population a couple hundred The town was suspect of harboring rebel solders so another commander General Dos decided to handle the problem by simply burning the town to the ground and killing every last woman and child to set an example for anyone else who'd dare oppose the Big Bad. Unfortunately a family member of General Uno was visiting the town at the time. Now this is where you have a choice... did the Big Bad reward General Dos and thus alienate and anger General Uno due to the death of a beloved family member. Or did she order the execution of General Dos labeling him a traitor simply to ensure the loyalty of General Uno.

You can change the names or change the ranks but the basics are the same. One gets to be the PC's perhaps amoral ally the other the enemy.

I have some ideas for the background for your big bad. Feel free to discard

Long ago the the land was wracked with turmoil and civil war. Back then Big Bad wasn't so bad. She was a typical person living a normal life. Until the day her village as destroyed by a warlord and she was the only survivor.

As she lay in mostly buried the rubble of her house a voice in the back of her mind offered her power. The power to fight, the power to bring order and stability the land. As her power and influence grew so did her ambitions and the whisper in the back of her mind grew stronger.
She came to believe this voice was her own inner-self driving her towards her destiny.

And now her final goal is to become a god and turn her empire into a religion with her at the center... but she is deceived. The voice in her head isn't her own inner-self but a God of Tyranny from another world who seeks to gain a strong foot hold in the world. So the Big Bad is in the end a pawn. The jewel will not actually make her a god it will allow the foreign god to enter the world through her.

Now here's where things get twisted, you could put a voice in one of the PC's heads that claims to be helpful and at times it does provide them with useful information. This is the same entity that influenced the Big Bad.

If the PC's gather all the pieces of the Jewel the voice will insist said player use the jewel to become a god himself in order to end the Big Bad's reign of terror. This has the same end result of the Big Bad using the jewel. However I would presume your players are wise enough NOT to fully trust a mysterious voice in their head.

Old journal recovered some some ruined fort belonging to the Big Bad could reveal to the PC's that she has a voice in her head driving her ambitions.

You don't really need a variant that can be cast on people. Haven't you ever seen a shirt with written information on it?

Aranna wrote:

Creative players can easily get around carrying capacity issues with a crafter in the group. Just craft tiny versions of any equipment the little PC wants and have no real issues.

wondrous items only come in 1 size.

Not actually true

When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn't be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

Its designed that way so the small characters can use the rings, cloaks, boots and other such items when looted from bigger enemies. Or if the party fought an ogre or some other giant enemy the party can actually make use of the loot.

Ahh yes, Bhaal is back along with Myrkul and much previously Bane.

I think its time to kill Cyric, he's pissed of damn near every deity in existence. Several of the gods he killed or was responsible for the demise of have returned to life. I imagine him running through the outer planes being pursued by a horde of angry deities to the tune of "Benny Hill Chase"

As swarms do not make attack rolls, I would agree that they are unaffected by Sanctuary.

Irrelevant. No where under the sanctuary spell does it say "attack roll." It simply says they are unable to "attack" the target. A swarm may not make attack rolls but its damage is still from an attack and it falls under the attack line. The word "swarm attack" is repeated numerous times in the swarm intro.

If one thousand goblins attacked a PC protected by sanctuary, the spell would be effective against all of them(with lots of saving throws). The purpose of a swarm is to have a huge number of small creatures function like a single creature. So sanctuary should be fully effective against them.

I suddenly have an image of an Ogre with a goblin strapped to his shield to help protect him from a brilliant energy weapon... at least the first hit.

*Lightsabers are beams of plasma suspended within a force containment field. So they are in essence solid objects but radiate intense heat allowing them to easily cut through most any material.

Magic gloves that bestow their enchantment and special abilities bonus on thrown weapons just like bows bestow their enchantment bonus on ammunition.

Okay here's one a race I designed myself a little while back. The Nagi

It was DR 15/bludgeoning and magic.

Which means magic fang would not have been useful if your pet didn't have bludgeoning attacks.

It was the lack of an amulet of mighty fists or greater magic fang that dropped his total damage.

The enchantment bonus from greater magic fang or greater magic weapon doesn't help with DR aside from DR/magic.

465. Legion of The Fallen
A village at peace but not for long for tonight brings the scourge, the terror and the madness of the horde known as the Legion of The Fallen.

Why can't Power Attack just combine both the 3.5 and PRPG versions? Something like "Take a penalty to your melee attack up to your Base Attack Bonus, add twice that amount to melee damage (thrice that amount if you're using a two-handed weapon)"?

Besides "Because it'll make iterative attacks a nightmare, Snorb."

Dragons, and other creatures with already high attack rolls, the same would be applied to ranged weapons with deadly aim. It'd also make low ac enemies incredibly vulnerable. Then you have true strike stuff. Drink a potion of true strike then charge the next round for a huge damage bonus.

A doctor presuming a non-divine caster would simply have ranks in heal and perhaps
profession herbalism.

What do you mean by a skilled trade? I don't think I quite understand the question.

Sailor is a skilled trade, Profession(sailor) allows you to steer the ship, adjust the sails etc etc. Except for the ship's cook ev

A Doctor would simply have ranks in heal and profession herbalism.

I need to remember to check in on things more often. XD

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

I would allow someone to use a craft or profession to appraise items or services specific to their trade, but the appraise skill should remain superior. I would prefer appraise was renamed to something more broad, and did what Alaryth suggests. Buying, selling, bartering, trading, raw materials for crafting, certain aspects of kingdom running. The benefit of the skill doesn't need to be significant, but should be worthwhile to someone who invests in it. When you compare appraise to broad skills like perception and acrobatics, its pretty lame.

That could work too. I was trying to add applicability to both Craft AND Appraise, by rolling them together (like Hide and Move Silently became Stealth), but you've got a good point.

Okay, let's make this thread more general then. I'll edit the title (if I can) and the OP, and we'll make this thread about how anyone else might houserule making Appraise more useful.

New Thread starts below!

EDIT: Dang, I can't edit either. POO >:C Well, let's see what we can do anyway.

~~~~

DM's can make appraise more useful by having the results effect the sale price. If you appraise the gem at 150gp but its actually worth 200gp you'd happily sell it for the price you think its worth.

So if unsuccessful appraise checks cost you upwards of 20% of the profits from the sale of gems, art and other non-magical goods. It'd make the skill more attractive