Goblin Squad Member
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Astra Azure Arcanum of The Empyrean Order Presents:
With special thanks to:
Eastern Sun, Deathwatch, Dragonblade Mercs, Freevale, The Empyrean Order, The Seventh Veil, and The UnNamed Company for assisting in gathering all the needed materials for the lists, as well as Decius and Nihimon for collecting data.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wow, simply wow. That is an incredible amount of info and effort you have put in. Kudos!
One question I have for the Devs.
Double Weapons, I assume means dual wield, but feat is tied to Heavy Weapons and Strength. Is that intended?
I would imagine that dual wield is with light (single handed) weapons and based on Dexterity.
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Wow, simply wow. That is an incredible amount of info and effort you have put in. Kudos!
One question I have for the Devs.
Double Weapons, I assume means dual wield, but feat is tied to Heavy Weapons and Strength. Is that intended?
I would imagine that dual wield is with light (single handed) weapons and based on Dexterity.
I think Double Weapons will function as they would in the TToP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wow, simply wow. That is an incredible amount of info and effort you have put in. Kudos!
One question I have for the Devs.
Double Weapons, I assume means dual wield, but feat is tied to Heavy Weapons and Strength. Is that intended?
I would imagine that dual wield is with light (single handed) weapons and based on Dexterity.
I thought Double Weapons are double headed items, not two seperate items. Most of them are in the large size (so Heavy in PFO?) category and use Strength.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wow, simply wow. That is an incredible amount of info and effort you have put in. Kudos!
One question I have for the Devs.
Double Weapons, I assume means dual wield, but feat is tied to Heavy Weapons and Strength. Is that intended?
I would imagine that dual wield is with light (single handed) weapons and based on Dexterity.
Double weapons are not dual wield.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Could you expand on the class system a bit more?
How do you level a class, and can you level more then 1 class at a time?
Classes do not exist. With classes, you get enough experience, you advance and get skills.
This is roles. You add skills as you wish (note there are Prerequisites). If your skill exceed a point, your role increments. I am not sure what that gets the character. One could just load skills (and achievements -- no sitting in library and learning theory).
Multi-"class" -- add what you want when you have prerequisites, achievements, and EXP (100/time). Note that you may only be able to play one weapon "class" and one spell class at a time. Mystic Theurge may be problem by this mechanic
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Goblin Squad Member
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Note that you may only be able to play one weapon "class" and one spell class at a time. Mystic Theurge may be problem by this mechanic
Where are you getting this? You can swap freely between Weapon + Implement pair A, and Weapon + Implement pair B. I'm not aware of anything that says you couldn't have one implement be a wand and your other a holy symbol- you just wouldn't be able to slot a role feature feat for either class.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So there is no Dual Wield in PFRPG TT?
yes two weapon fighting exists in tabletop. and yes those rules are used for double weapons
Double : You can use a double weapon to fight as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. You can choose to wield one end of a double weapon two-handed, but it cannot be used as a double weapon when wielded in this way—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Note that you may only be able to play one weapon "class" and one spell class at a time. Mystic Theurge may be problem by this mechanicWhere are you getting this? You can swap freely between Weapon + Implement pair A, and Weapon + Implement pair B. I'm not aware of anything that says you couldn't have one implement be a wand and your other a holy symbol- you just wouldn't be able to slot a role feature feat for either class.
yes.
maybe.devs have not said without the normal penalties of MT is a killer build. I do not want to say this is how to build a must have when I do not know what the debs will say.
Not yet demo started as opposed to IT MUST BE LIKE THIS AND THE SOLUTION IS ….
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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The keywords you use for Expendables come from your role feature. Cleric features get keywords for Cleric spells, Wizards features get keywords for Wizard spells. If you're using a Wizard feature, and you slotted a Holy Symbol, your spells would not be very good, because you have the wrong keywords. Same for a Cleric feature and a Spellbook.
It would not be very difficult to make a "prestige" role feature that got a combination of Wizard and Cleric keywords (possibly even getting more total keywords, but still not as many as a pure member of either role). You can, indeed, slot a Holy Symbol and Focus on one weapon set and a Spellbook and Staff on another and flip between them.
I don't know how hard it will be to simulate some of the special abilities from the prestige classes, but the feature is straightforward.
We'll still probably wait until we see the other synergies of slotting feats from multiple roles before creating one, particularly if people feel like the combo feature is not enough to really capture the prestige class and the specials are needed. It would also be nice to get the faction system in so we can set "prestige" feats as rewards for various appropriate factions.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Double Weapon in those lists does, indeed, refer to the TT weapons like a stick with an axe or sword at each end. It may be a while before we create any of those, but the proficiency is designed (I don't think it's available to train, though).
You can dual wield right now. Short Swords, Maces, Shields, and, eventually, Daggers can go in your off hand. For now, the primary benefit is being able to slot a different combination of attacks than you would with just one weapon. Additionally, once we have keyword-based damage reduction on creatures (e.g., fey damaged less if your attack is missing the Cold Iron keyword) and enchants, dual wielding even weapons of the same type may be beneficial, because you could cover a wider range of keyword.
But there's currently no inherent bonus to having an offhand weapon and, thus, no particular proficiency required to do it. For now, the benefits are limited enough to be "paid for" just by the opportunity of maintaining two weapons instead of one.
The starter Rogue is dual wielding short swords mostly just to make sure the tech and animations work. Since they're identical, there's no benefit over just one short sword.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Double Weapon in those lists does, indeed, refer to the TT weapons like a stick with an axe or sword at each end. It may be a while before we create any of those, but the proficiency is designed (I don't think it's available to train, though).
You can dual wield right now. Short Swords, Maces, Shields, and, eventually, Daggers can go in your off hand. For now, the primary benefit is being able to slot a different combination of attacks than you would with just one weapon. Additionally, once we have keyword-based damage reduction on creatures (e.g., fey damaged less if your attack is missing the Cold Iron keyword) and enchants, dual wielding even weapons of the same type may be beneficial, because you could cover a wider range of keyword.
But there's currently no inherent bonus to having an offhand weapon and, thus, no particular proficiency required to do it. For now, the benefits are limited enough to be "paid for" just by the opportunity of maintaining two weapons instead of one.
The starter Rogue is dual wielding short swords mostly just to make sure the tech and animations work. Since they're identical, there's no benefit over just one short sword.
1. I love the first point I placed in bold.
2. Does the last point mean that you can not slot a short sword and a hand ax?
Also, does it mean there are no key words to be slotted yet?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I count 10 medium and 17 small structures on the Sotterhill map, assuming the Keep is mandatory standard. Do we have any idea if this will be an actual buildable design or is it pure dev magic?
This post suggests no more than 4 medium buildings in a town, plus 2 larges. The plot count seems to work if you can split a large plot and build 3 mediums on it, although the district breakdown doesn't fit at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can dual wield right now. Short Swords, Maces, Shields, and, eventually, Daggers can go in your off hand. For now, the primary benefit is being able to slot a different combination of attacks than you would with just one weapon. Additionally, once we have keyword-based damage reduction on creatures (e.g., fey damaged less if your attack is missing the Cold Iron keyword) and enchants, dual wielding even weapons of the same type may be beneficial, because you could cover a wider range of keyword.
I realize that it's still in the alpha stages and functions are limited, but are there plans to make weapon choices for two-weapon fighting wide open or is it going to be constrained to particular weapon sets?
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Offhand weapon choices are heavily constrained right now, as there are nontrivial amounts of additional animation every time we make a new one possible (e.g., each combination of weapons requires some specific animations to make sure they work right together). They will likely expand over time, but for now we erred on the side of only weapons that would be light weapons in tabletop being available to offhand.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Also we should warn people there are a lot of things on these spreadsheets that we have on the sheets but do not plan to implement for years, if ever (Firearms, the Fly skill, etc). Just because it shows up here don't plan on it coming in soon, if ever.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The keywords you use for Expendables come from your role feature. Cleric features get keywords for Cleric spells, Wizards features get keywords for Wizard spells. If you're using a Wizard feature, and you slotted a Holy Symbol, your spells would not be very good, because you have the wrong keywords. Same for a Cleric feature and a Spellbook.
I believe that Guurzak was suggesting placing spell book as one implement and cleric symbol as an alternate implement (or vice versa). Once the current linking of weapon and implement switches, it would mean that one could keep prime weapon, but switch between spell book and symbol; and out of combat, change books. (Or change weapons without changing implement).
As it stands, since changing weapons, changes implements, does the cleric need two symbols (or wizard, two books -- hmmm, maybe two books would be useful),
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Spears (as two handed weapons with greater reach) will be in soon.
Glaives will likely be in before long (Shelyn is in our second set of deities).
Past that, it will probably come down to how many animations we can re-use from Spear and Glaive, and how sick our animator is of making new polearm attacks :) .
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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The second set is most likely to be the remaining core deities, except in cases where there are three majors to a single alignment (like LG and TN) or there are some really important local deities like Hanspur and Gyronna. In those cases, there may be some crowdforging done to decide which ones to do first.
Unless I'm missing a NE minor deity that's super important to the area, it does seem like Urgathoa is almost certainly our second NE god.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Classes do not exist. With classes, you get enough experience, you advance and get skills.This is roles. You add skills as you wish (note there are Prerequisites). If your skill exceed a point, your role increments. I am not sure what that gets the character. One could just load skills (and achievements -- no sitting in library and learning theory).
Classes do exist, they are called Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard.
The fact that PFO will implement them differently than TT or some other MMO's and choose to call them Class Roles (direct quote from the document) instead of just plain Classes does not change the fact that they are still classes.
How do Classes, or if you prefer, "Class Roles" as they are called in the document work?
Does the chart listed gives the bonus's awarded for each level, i.e at level 2 cleric I'd get Fortitude=1, BAB=1, HP=2, Power=4, Crusader=2 or the skills I need to train to be considered a level 2 cleric? or are they achievements needed?
If its the bonus's then whats needed to get to level 2 cleric to get the bonus's?
Assuming clerics train at temples, you can train holy symbol implement proficiency at level 1? level 1 what? Cleric level 1 or character level 1 (assuming you can have levels in more then one Class Role)?
charm, fire, glory, luck, etc require level 4? level 4 what? Cleric, or character?
Can you actually have levels in more then 1 Class Role?
In fact, given enough time could you learn every skill and get max level on every Class Roll?
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Goblin Squad Member
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There aren't really any classes.
What you see is the required skills/feats for the Achievement for that "role." Those skills/feats you purchase with your experience. That list is just a guide to reach that specific achievement.
You can equip any two combinations of implements and weapon sets to switch out, effectively allowing you to be extremely versatile. You need specific achievements to reach higher levels of skills/feats/abilities, as well as a combination of money and experience.
If you want to go up the "Cleric" tree, you have to purchase stuff from the Dreadnaught, Temple, and Seminary.
You are not limited to a specific "role's" skills/feats, you can max out every single one of them, which, by my calculations would take roughly 10 years, probably more.
Also, the list at the very beginning explains that those are the max levels of each skill you can get from a basic trainer.