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GM Says: "Yeah, Illusions are totally cool and useful in my games."
GM Meant: "Illusion spells are useful for NPCs and monsters, and you guys can't do anything about it. For you however, they'll be auto-saved against once one person figures it out. Forever."
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GM says: "Who's at third place in your marching order, and how tall is he?"
GM means: Well, pretty much this.
GM Says: "Yeah, Illusions are totally cool and useful in my games."
GM Meant: "Illusion spells are useful for NPCs and monsters, and you guys can't do anything about it. For you however, they'll be auto-saved against once one person figures it out. Forever."
That doesn't seem fair. Shouldn't EVERY monster have to make a saving throw? Even if they heard about the illusion before? They might get a slight bonus against it (like a +2) but they shouldn't just Auto-save.
GM says: You miss. He has a really high AC
GM means: You missed by one, but I'm not going to tell you that.
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This is not directed at Orthos, but is a response in general.
Of course, the counter to that is, "I do precisely that right now, despite your ownership of the 'That Not FAAAAIRR! Winery.' Stop approaching me with astoundingly stupid, preposterously overpowered and/or wildly-inappropriate-for-this-campaign 3rd party material, and I'll stop saying, 'No.'"
Man, that irritates me.
In some cases I'd agree with you, but I often come across it in GMs, and the stuff I ask for is usually Dreamscarred Press' Psionics classes, so "astoundingly stupid and/or preposterously overpowered" doesn't fit, and the response I usually get is more like "Yeah I don't know how it works so no".
Which speaks to me that you're not really putting 3rd party on the table, if you've never looked at any of it, and won't bother to learn it when someone asks for it.
So in some respects this is supposed to be a humour/satire thread, so this is all tangential, but as a GM I do allow some third party, but not a lot, and I will say there are two problems with third party stuff, the first is that a lot of players will take it personally if you refuse them access to the material they present feeling treated unfairly, its just a social issue more then a material issue. The second is that it is a lot easier to accept or reject a third party feat or magic item then it is to accept a class, or in the case of Psionics and entire magic system. The GM is already responsible for a lot of rules management, adjudication, and knowledge, the expectation that they master that much more knowledge in order to make a balance opinion on it is unfair in my opinion. If multiple players were all interested in it, or the group had decided "hey lets make a campaign that includes this content." then as a group you can learn and make that assessment, but I don't think I would do that much work for one player.
So in some respects this is supposed to be a humour/satire thread, so this is all tangential, but as a GM I do allow some third party, but not a lot, and I will say there are two problems with third party stuff, the first is that a lot of players will take it personally if you refuse them access to the material they present feeling treated unfairly, its just a social issue more then a material issue. The second is that it is a lot easier to accept or reject a third party feat or magic item then it is to accept a class, or in the case of Psionics and entire magic system. The GM is already responsible for a lot of rules management, adjudication, and knowledge, the expectation that they master that much more knowledge in order to make a balance opinion on it is unfair in my opinion. If multiple players were all interested in it, or the group had decided "hey lets make a campaign that includes this content." then as a group you can learn and make that assessment, but I don't think I would do that much work for one player.
That's another reason I don't want to allow Psionics. I don't understand it and if only one person is interested in it, I don't want to take the time from making a good game to try to understand that system.
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:(
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DM Says: You see a cave entrance out in front of you. A lone bugbear stands at the entrance.
Player: We've decided to enter the cave. We can take em.
DM Says: You enter the cave, chasing after the bugbear. Without warning you are attacked from all sides by more bugbears lurking in the dark.
DM Means: You think the darkness is your ally? Your party doesn't even have darkvision, let alone a torch/lantern. Those bugbears were born in the darkness, molded by it. They didn't leave the caves until they reached adulthood.
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DM Says: You see a cave entrance out in front of you. A lone bugbear stands at the entrance.
Player: We've decided to enter the cave. We can take em.DM Says: You enter the cave, chasing after the bugbear. Without warning you are attacked from all sides by more bugbears lurking in the dark.
DM Means: You think the darkness is your ally? Your party doesn't even have darkvision, let alone a torch/lantern. Those bugbears were born in the darkness, molded by it. They didn't leave the caves until they reached adulthood.
DM just finished watching The Dark Knight Rises, and the one of the bugbears is wearing a strange mask...
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DM just finished watching The Dark Knight Rises, and the one of the bugbears is wearing a strange mask...DM Says: You see a cave entrance out in front of you. A lone bugbear stands at the entrance.
Player: We've decided to enter the cave. We can take em.DM Says: You enter the cave, chasing after the bugbear. Without warning you are attacked from all sides by more bugbears lurking in the dark.
DM Means: You think the darkness is your ally? Your party doesn't even have darkvision, let alone a torch/lantern. Those bugbears were born in the darkness, molded by it. They didn't leave the caves until they reached adulthood.
...that bears a strange resemblance to goatse...
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...that bears a strange resemblance to goatse...DM just finished watching The Dark Knight Rises, and the one of the bugbears is wearing a strange mask...DM Says: You see a cave entrance out in front of you. A lone bugbear stands at the entrance.
Player: We've decided to enter the cave. We can take em.DM Says: You enter the cave, chasing after the bugbear. Without warning you are attacked from all sides by more bugbears lurking in the dark.
DM Means: You think the darkness is your ally? Your party doesn't even have darkvision, let alone a torch/lantern. Those bugbears were born in the darkness, molded by it. They didn't leave the caves until they reached adulthood.
Those are the cousins of bugbears, the buggerbears. I think they are in the monster codex.
In some cases I'd agree with you, but I often come across it in GMs, and the stuff I ask for is usually Dreamscarred Press' Psionics classes, so "astoundingly stupid and/or preposterously overpowered" doesn't fit, and the response I usually get is more like "Yeah I don't know how it works so no".
Which speaks to me that you're not really putting 3rd party on the table, if you've never looked at any of it, and won't bother to learn it when someone asks for it.
It's mildly irritating at worst, but very disappointing to come across on a regular basis.
I have no doubt you've encountered such before.
I'd say you're seeing it from the player's perspective, and I from the GM's.
Players should work to keep their requests in line with the campaign's parameters, and GMs should interpret players' requests as generously as they can, and work to allow them their interests. ...
To be fair...
I don't feel it is reasonable to have one single PC be the only psionic in the campaign. So if I'm gonna allow psionic PC's then that means I gotta add psionic NPC's. Which means I have to know it well enough to use, build, and oppose them. Which probably means I need to own the book since it is a fairly extensive system. No AP or module has psionic NPC's or monsters, so that is more adjusting to the material that I have to do. Psionics isn't in Herolabs so that will make it harder for me to make and track the psionic NPC's and psionic monsters.
So to my mind, allowing psionic PC's is not a simple thing. It ups my expense a little and prep time considerably. It is a whole new system, so it is a big deal if I'm going to do it correctly/well. I'm not against psionic rules, I'm against greatly expanding my workload for one PC.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the DSP psionic system much better than vancian magic. I'm currently trying to talk my group around to a psionic instead of magic campaign since there apparently is an AP for that.
Now on the other hand, on of my players wanted to use the Gauntlet Witch archtype from one of the Kobold magazines. I read it over. Not super powerful (especially since he is not really an optimizer) and no significant rule or changes required on my part. Ok, good to go. He's got it up to 10th level now.
GM says: He says he'll tell you what you need to know, but only if you give him a good fight first. He tosses his sword to the side and cracks his knuckles.
GM means: This next fight will be cathartic for me. Then we can continue.
GM says: As you detect magic, you are overwhelmed by the strength of the magical auras around you.
GM means: Yeah no, detect magic isn't going to save you from traps this time.
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GM says: Give me your marching order
GM means: Okay, who do I get to hit first...
So true, but it's also the best excuse to push things along.
DM says: Okay, I'm switching dice.
DM means: I need some dice that will actually roll well enough to kill you.
DM says: *rolls a random die roll*
DM means: *this die roll is pointless I'm just trying to freak you all out*
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GM says: The innkeeper seems to be very friendly.
GM means: One of you will be sacrificed by the innkeeper tonight.
GM says: Sure you can permanently be enlarged.
GM means: Too bad you can't squeeze out of the dungeon which is rapidly filling with water
GM says: You see a canyon up ahead. Everything seems normal.
GM says: Get ready for an ambush.
GM says: Please stop assuming my NPCs are evil.
GM means: I'm not that obvious, am I?