so I decided to figure out the size and value of various coins in the Pathfinder world. I used the base copper, silver, gold and platinum coins where 10 copper = 10 silver = 100 gold = 1000 platinum. I used modern day values (I couldn't find a source for medieval or renaissance values of these metals) and the densities of the metals to find how big each coin is. I did this twice with once being a standard 1 oz gold coin and the other with 50 gold per pound.
If anyone has any idea how to put a chart in to here, let me know as I have no idea
Copper Silver Gold Platinum
$/Oz 0.1875 20.87 1315.1 1,428
Relative value 1/100 1/10 1 10
Dollars/coin 13.151 131.51 1315.1 13151
Oz/Coin 70.13866667 6.301389554 1 9.209383754
I made a picture to see easier
So by this scale the most efficient coin is indeed the platinum coin as it has 10 times the value of a gold coin but only 9 times the weight and copper coins would have to be over 4 pounds each.
Copper Silver Gold Platinum
$/Oz 0.1875 20.87 1315.1 1,428
Relative value 0.0032 0.032 0.32 3.2
Dollars/coin 4.20832 42.0832 420.832 4208.32
Oz/Coin 22.44437333 2.016444657 0.32 2.947002801
Same relative scale but the copper coin would still be able to substitute a bludgeoning weapon.
If anyone knows a relative value scale from the middle ages or renaissance, I will try to update this
That's really cool! I still go by the old AD&D 1st ed. rules, though. 10 coins equal a pound. Is there a PF rule for actual coin weight?
Yes, the rules state that a gold coin weighs about a third of an ounce or 50 to the pound
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That's really cool! I still go by the old AD&D 1st ed. rules, though. 10 coins equal a pound. Is there a PF rule for actual coin weight?Yes, the rules state that a gold coin weighs about a third of an ounce or 50 to the pound
Standard coins are 50 per pound regardless of material.
The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (50 to the pound).
That's really cool! I still go by the old AD&D 1st ed. rules, though. 10 coins equal a pound. Is there a PF rule for actual coin weight?Yes, the rules state that a gold coin weighs about a third of an ounce or 50 to the poundStandard coins are 50 per pound regardless of material.
The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (50 to the pound).
Yeah, my point is to look at how the value and size of these coins would actually work. 10 1/3 Oz copper coins are not nearly the same value of a silver and the same from silver to gold
You're assuming that the coins all pure. The gold coin in particular is probably mostly brass.
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You're assuming that the coins all pure. The gold coin in particular is probably mostly brass.
In modern coinage where the coin is backed by a government and its value comes from that, then you'd be right. However, gold was used as a currency largely because it has a well defined weight that makes it hard to counterfeit. Also, in the middle ages type environment, gold coins would be worth their metal value more than anything. Merchants trading with other lands would have to use scales to ensure the proper gold weight to match up with the prices in their own currency.
I don't know why you'd make any assumption on the value of copper, silver, gold, and plat on another world. It'd be based on scarcity and what the natives could do with it which in a world of sorcery and magic who knows what that is.
I'd be more interested to see the size of each coin based on Pathfinder's weight to quantity as all coins weigh the same. I could just look up the density and calculate it, but it'd be cool to have an actual visual of that.
So, could you reverse engineer the relative scarcity of these metals on Golarion by assuming the standard weight and relative value of the coins based on the rules?
You could reverse engineer their value by weight. If you wanted you could assume that's based on scarcity, but I'd say scarcity is not necessarily the primary or only significant factor. But as a mental exercise you can assume what you wish.
There's scarcity and there's also usefulness. Copper will have some value until you're pretty much swimming in it
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You're assuming that the coins all pure. The gold coin in particular is probably mostly brass.In modern coinage where the coin is backed by a government and its value comes from that, then you'd be right. However, gold was used as a currency largely because it has a well defined weight that makes it hard to counterfeit. Also, in the middle ages type environment, gold coins would be worth their metal value more than anything. Merchants trading with other lands would have to use scales to ensure the proper gold weight to match up with the prices in their own currency.
Oh, good lord, no. Watered down coinage is as old as coinage itself.
Oh, good lord, no. Watered down coinage is as old as coinage itself.You're assuming that the coins all pure. The gold coin in particular is probably mostly brass.In modern coinage where the coin is backed by a government and its value comes from that, then you'd be right. However, gold was used as a currency largely because it has a well defined weight that makes it hard to counterfeit. Also, in the middle ages type environment, gold coins would be worth their metal value more than anything. Merchants trading with other lands would have to use scales to ensure the proper gold weight to match up with the prices in their own currency.
Are you referring to counterfeited currency, then yes you are right.
Are you referring to counterfeited currency, then yes you are right.Oh, good lord, no. Watered down coinage is as old as coinage itself.You're assuming that the coins all pure. The gold coin in particular is probably mostly brass.In modern coinage where the coin is backed by a government and its value comes from that, then you'd be right. However, gold was used as a currency largely because it has a well defined weight that makes it hard to counterfeit. Also, in the middle ages type environment, gold coins would be worth their metal value more than anything. Merchants trading with other lands would have to use scales to ensure the proper gold weight to match up with the prices in their own currency.
Nope. Referring to the debasement of coinage. Look up the history of the Roman denarius sometime.
I am referring more to medieval coinage where it represented the value of the metal more than the strength of whomever was minting it as coins were often made by whatever lord happened to own the land and therefore it was hard to set a base value for a coin
I am referring more to medieval coinage where it represented the value of the metal more than the strength of whomever was minting it as coins were often made by whatever lord happened to own the land and therefore it was hard to set a base value for a coin
Ahem. Coin debasement was rampant in the medieval era as well.
I thought it was 1000 copper = 100 silver = 10 gold = 1 platinum
I thought it was 1000 copper = 100 silver = 10 gold = 1 platinum
It is, I am using that and modern values to figure out what the coin weight should be based on these relative values to each other.
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I never really worried about gold weight as I keep my gold in the bank run by gobins. Arent all wizards supposed to do that?
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Of note - I believe that both silver & copper were worth considerably more back in the middle ages than they are now due to scarcity. From what I understand - much of the modern world's supply came from S. America & Africa.
In addition - due to modern mining - scarcity is a larger factor than the cost of mining (which would remain relatively constant no matter what metal it is).
Of note - I believe that both silver & copper were worth considerably more back in the middle ages than they are now due to scarcity. From what I understand - much of the modern world's supply came from S. America & Africa.
Yes. Traditional "medieval" ratios were between 10:1 and 20:1 gold:silver values. Although this varied widely from time to time and from place to place. When the Spanish silver mines of the New World opened up, the value of silver dropped considerably (and Spain suffered a bout of serious inflation).
But, for example, in Japan, the ratio was actually reversed -- silver was more valuable than gold. This of course created marvelous trading opportunities for the traders in the Black Ships, who were more than happy to trade their silver for, literally, more than its weight in gold.
Also adding to the issue is that the OP is using pretty cutting-edge prices, and precious metals have been awfully volatile recently. If he ran the numbers using prices from 1994 he is likely to get entirely different relative valuations.
But the big issue is that he's assuming that the silver coin is actually relatively pure silver (and similarly). The Roman antoninianus started out at about 40% silver but within a few years dropped to less than 5% silver. The sestersius actually changed from an officially silver coin to an officially brass coin with no silver.
The copper coin is probably mostly copper. The silver coin likely has some silver in it, but is mostly lead. If you assume about 10% silver, then the coins work out to have appropriate size/value ratios.
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I never really worried about gold weight as I keep my gold in the bank run by gobins. Arent all wizards supposed to do that?
Who knew that goblins worship Abadar?
So this is an interesting thread and all, but why's it in the Pathfinder Society section? Shouldn't it be under the Pathfinder RPG General Discussion subforum?
Edit: Nevermind. Looks like the thread was moved while I was writing that.
Actual coins in medieval times were physically much smaller than the standard in the rules. The rules assume every coin is the size of a modern US half-dollar, when they were usually closer to the size of a dime.
I did some simple size/weight calculations for my campaign for dime-sized coins, and came up with about 180 coins to the pound.
This does make it easier to carry cash around.
Most fantasy RPGs game worlds don't have a medieval economy: It's more like early modern or even later. Mine has banks and letters of credit.