Did I make a mistake going ranger over zen archer?


Advice

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The Exchange

Communists?!?

Silver Crusade

My two cents: it all depends on your party and the story you want your character to tell. The Ranger is a real jack-of-all-trades depending on skill selection while the ZAM is perforation machine...

Grand Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
Forget the ZAM! Archer Ranger is a fine damage dealer. Why is it that you belive the ZAM to so superior?
Probably from playing his ranger alongside one.
They are level 2 the ZAM shouldent have any thing there that make he ranger feel left behind.
And yet he does. Perhaps we should explore what ELSE might be causing this?

I would suspect that the ZAM player is most likely stacking flurry and rapid shot.


The only thing that put ahead zen archers in RAW killing prowess is the ability to add stunning fist to arrows. But that only comes in the really high levels. Most o the game they shoudl be more or less on par, I think.


Idk what he was doing but at level 1 he could do three attacks vs my one. That's a pretty big difference in damage.

Grand Lodge

Yeah, he's doing something wrong. Either using Flurry and Rapid Shot despite the rules against it, or rolling Perfect Strike as three attacks instead of one.

Sczarni

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Yeah, he's doing something wrong. Either using Flurry and Rapid Shot despite the rules against it, or rolling Perfect Strike as three attacks instead of one.

He could just be rolling perfect strike with 1 shot; the extra d20 could appear as an additional attack roll because, well it is.

But at level 1 he gets to do that exactly once per day.

There is something amiss here for sure... But I don't know enough to identify what it is...

Ranaan - let you're Ranger come into his own. The Ranger is the 2nd best Archer for society play out of the box; but they do take time to come into their own.


I'm happy to learn that Combat Reflexes, Snapshot, and Imp. Snapshot aren't definites for archery like Deadly Aim is. That gives me a little more wiggle room for flavor or style that I want. Is a griffon really worth it as a pet? I mean I won't always have a pet available to me in all scenarios so idk if it's worth the feat investment. There's Imp. Precise shot, Manyshot, Iron Will, Vital Strike. Suddenly I have more options than I thought.


The griffon is basically a flying tiger. By lvl 7 it has everythg but grab.. vs favored enemies its more or less a flying killing machine.


Rannan wrote:
I'm happy to learn that Combat Reflexes, Snapshot, and Imp. Snapshot aren't definites for archery like Deadly Aim is. That gives me a little more wiggle room for flavor or style that I want. Is a griffon really worth it as a pet? I mean I won't always have a pet available to me in all scenarios so idk if it's worth the feat investment. There's Imp. Precise shot, Manyshot, Iron Will, Vital Strike. Suddenly I have more options than I thought.

As an archer you should always be able to full attack making vital strike almost unnecessary.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Improved Precise Shot you will use almost every fight. Negating that +4 AC cover bonus say from firing when your buddies, or the bad guy's allies, or the battlements, etc. are between you and the bad guy is an excellent benefit.

Iron Will is a good way to boost your Will saves. As a ranger, Will is your weak save and many of the save or suck spells fall into this category (Glitterdust, Hold Person, Dominate, etc...).

Manyshot is a damage booster and it can be used in conjunction with Rapid Shot.

I actually have a soft spot for Vital Strike, but in most cases you have higher priorities or better choices. Like Boon Companion so your pet is fighting at 100% of your level.

Sczarni

Rerednaw wrote:

Improved Precise Shot you will use almost every fight. Negating that +4 AC cover bonus say from firing when your buddies, or the bad guy's allies, or the battlements, etc. are between you and the bad guy is an excellent benefit.

Iron Will is a good way to boost your Will saves. As a ranger, Will is your weak save and many of the save or suck spells fall into this category (Glitterdust, Hold Person, Dominate, etc...).

Manyshot is a damage booster and it can be used in conjunction with Rapid Shot.

I actually have a soft spot for Vital Strike, but in most cases you have higher priorities or better choices. Like Boon Companion so your pet is fighting at 100% of your level.

This is solid advice.

Improved Precise Shot should be your level 6 feat - no exceptions! The +4 cover bonus is a factor in almost every combat situations. Especially if you have a charging Barbarian on your team that likes to wade right into the thick of it on his initiative.

Many Shot is your level 7 feat. If it's open, level 5 is the perfect time for Boon Companion.

The long & the short of it is you have more useful feats than feat slots. It pays to plan ahead.


Yeah I meant to write improved snapshot rather than precise shot. Imp. Precise Shot is definitely a must. The group always contains melee that wade right in, and so far it seems like there are pillars and other items for cover constantly. The I still have +7 to hit already, but +7 is way better than +3. I plan on taking boon companion at 5, then I only have one level of an underpowered pet. I still have to figure out where to put Monstrous Companion so I can have a griffin. I really wanted a big cat for pounce and rake, so a griffon is perfect. I'm going to skip the feat to fly on it though. It'd be nice but there's too many archery feats I should focus on instead of trying to fly around when it will only be viable a portion of the time.


Lincoln Hills wrote:
The Zen Archer probably can get an edge in damage, but there's more to party utility than massive damage.

Blasphemy! Burn the heretic!

The Exchange

Hah! You can't! You spent the money you should have been using to buy flint and steel and firewood and lamp oil to get another +1 to damage on your weapon! "Who needs fire," you said!


Lincoln Hills wrote:
Hah! You can't! You spent the money you should have been using to buy flint and steel and firewood and lamp oil to get another +1 to damage on your weapon! "Who needs fire," you said!

I have yet to find a problem that the proper application of fire cannot solve.

The Exchange

Well, outside of the problem of blackberry stains, I'd agree. Setting fire to the laundry didn't help at all!


Quote:
Prone gives +4 AC against ranged attacks. How does the wolf trip help a ranged attacker?

It keeps the guy from getting to you. You shoot the guy standing up, then the wolf trips him. He spends his turn standing up (attack of opportunity from the wolf), likely attacks the wolf (who has good armor class). Repeat until the bad guy is dead.

The wolf is absurdly good at keeping attackers from getting to you.


Rannan wrote:
I have yet to find a problem that the proper application of fire cannot solve.

I think red dragons might change that


I tend to prefer the wolf option but the tripping certainly gets sketchy as the monsters increase in size. My favorite companion is a giant praying mantis - fly/climb decent attacks and good AC.

Rangers are more intesting than ZA's but I have played both and enjoyed both.

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