I think part of the disconnect between people right now comes from measuring what you could do with a staff you build, vs. what the standard staves do. The thing is, the standard staves (e.g. items you might find) are terrible, mostly because they frequently include a higher level spell in them that costs a great many charges.
The most obvious example is the various arcane school staves, which have me shelling out a 6th level slot to power 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells. To get a 6th level spell out of the staff I have to put in 3 6th level spells over the course of three days. That’s a terrible trade. And to boot, it’s hugely expensive. 82,000gp goes an incredibly long way otherwise.
For the same price as a staff of evocation I could buy:
-More than 20 9th level spell scrolls (more than 40 if I scribe them myself)
-50 6th level scrolls (100 if I scribe them myself)
-A metamagic rod of quicken and 4 6th level scrolls
-1 6th level pearl of power, 1 5th level pearl of power, 2 3rd level pearls of power, and 3 1st level pearls of power
-2 6th level pearls of power, 1 3rd level pearl of power, 1 1st level pearl of power
No matter how you cut it, I can get more staying power over the short term (scrolls) or long term (pearls of power) than I can out of a staff for the same price or much less. Buying pearls of power I can equal the staves short term output of spells (e.g. in one day) and exceed it by an enormous amount over the course of several days.
Something isn't functioning as intended, and this takes me back to an old thread where people speculated that staves were overpriced by half. Looking at those numbers, I can't help but agree. Either the price on staves needs to go down, or the recharge method needs to be quicker and less painful.
Right now, looking at things, I sort of get the impression that the Paizo guy's initial thoughts were as knee jerk as the guys who wrote the sorcerer in 3.0 and thought it needed a ton of limitations because it would be incredibly broken.
shelling out a 6th level slot to power 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells.The only spell on the Staff list you can cast is the 6th level one? Yes.
If you can cast one of the 1st level spells, then you can do you 1 charge per day by expending a 1st level slot.
To recharge a staff, you must spend a slot equal to the highest level spell contained in the staff. If the highest level spell in the staff is 6th level, then you must spend a 6th level spell slot to regain 1 charge.
Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff. For example, a 9th-level wizard with a staff of fire could imbue the staff with one charge per day by using up one of his 4th-level spells. A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day.
shelling out a 6th level slot to power 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells.The only spell on the Staff list you can cast is the 6th level one? Yes.
If you can cast one of the 1st level spells, then you can do you 1 charge per day by expending a 1st level slot.
Nope.
I was more trying to state that even if you are in the middle of an adventure, there are likely a few days worth of travel, days with more RP than combat, etc, were you aren't heavily spell-taxed. Those are the days mid adventure where you can buffer up some charges. Still, the root of the problem is, as you mention, the charging method, and more importantly, the 'has to use the highest level to only gain 1 charge' requirement. This is avoided by creating staves with same-level spells, of 1 charge per cast requirements. This makes it a 1:1 buffer item, and just naturally balances itself in its use. Its greatest benefit then becomes the ability to use that single slot for more than one spell option, and to nova on the really tough days.
With this 1:1 staff, there is no requirement to have 'known downtime'. As every day the staff isn't full, you can devote a slot to it, as long as you were going to prepare one of the spells in the staff anyway.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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To recharge a staff, you must spend a slot equal to the highest level spell
but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff.
I've been reading that wrong for a couple years, and I even double checked before I post (because I rarely post without double checking) and read it wrong.
I've been parsing this as a "do A or B" where A is a spell listed in the staff list of spells and B is a spell slot of the highest level.
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I think staves are best used in the following ways:
1. A cheaper way for a spontaneous caster to get regular access to a spell. Suppose a sorcerer anticipates wanting to cast Wall of Force often, but has already prioritized learning other 5th level spells. A staff that casts Wall of Force for one charge will cost 18,000 gold, while a Page of Spell Knowledge for Wall of Force will cost 25,000 gold. Buying the staff saves the sorcerer 7000 gold.
2. Having ready access to a spell that's not on your class list. Say a mid-level (12th level) party wants some back-up healing capability. For 27,060 gold, they can buy a staff that can cast Heal for 1 charge, and Protection from Evil for 5 charges, and give that staff to the party sorcerer. Sure it'll take a DC 20 UMD check for the sorcerer to use Heal from the staff, but that's a pretty easy check to make auto-succeedable by a 12th level sorcerer. Since the sorcerer knows Protection from Evil and can cast 6th level spells (no where is it stated that staves are classified as divine or arcane), he can recharge the staff on his own.
This could be done with Heal scrolls, but there are some disadvantages. For starters, for the cost of the staff I just described, the same party could buy 15 oracle-scribed scrolls of Heal at CL 12. (They could save some money by getting cleric-scribed Heal scrolls, but unless the sorcerer has a Wisdom of 16 he'll have to make an additional DC 31 UMD check.) So out of the gate, the scroll method is only 5 castings of Heal more cost-effective. Or, 9,060 gold cheaper if you only buy 10 scrolls.
However, a scroll in and of itself is less efficient. For starters, instead of a DC 20 UMD check, it rises up to DC 32 - a significant increase. Furthermore, activating a scroll provokes and AoO, while using the staff does not - something very important when it comes to casting a spell with a range of touch. Finally, the scroll will always be CL 12, while casting from the staff is at the user's CL, so the spell...
Just to add to that:
a) 1 ranged attacker with a ready action to "shoot that spellcaster as soon as he tries to cast a spell from mind or device" has very good chances to ruin your spell if youa re casting from a scroll, no chance of ruining it if you are casting from a staff.b) drawing out a scroll provoke an AoO that is separated from the AoO provoked by casting the spell. Not nice if there is a enemy in range with combat reflexes. And that archer with Improved snap shot become a problem.
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For a sorcerer you can expand your spells known. Just buy a staff where you only know one of the spells, then you're gaining several additional spell options that you wouldn't normally have available.Also! If you take the crafting feat (or simply choose a staff has your arcane bond) you can put spells on there that aren't on your spell list! Put a grease on there so you can charge it up, then put cure light wounds and good hope on there!
Please note that those spells will require UMD to activate. DC 20 regardless of spell level.
EDIT: added the UMD part.
Staves are spell trigger items:
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. A scroll of unmodified shield is 25 gp, and magic missile is the same. The cost of a modified (20th-level caster) scroll of each (formula: 12.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster) is 250 gp to scribe them, with 500 gp being for buying them new. Which means that, for the price of that staff, I can carry sixteen scrolls scribed at caster level 20. And that's before noting that magic missile caps out at caster level 9, at which point I could simply buy 32 scrolls of it for the same amount of money as the staff. Or I can buy ten scrolls of shield at caster level 20 and 13 scrolls of magic missile at caster level 9 for the same price... and end up having saved money and bought the equivalent of two or three staves.
As for the wands: Typically, I'm not finding the lack of scaling for them to be a problem. They're there to provide a lot of extra copies of low-level spells that are frequently used, so they're the same value as buying 50 scrolls at the same level.
So, no, the staves are not cheaper. And scrolls are not more expensive or less...
Now, for a campaign with massive amounts of downtime, staves are the better option because you recharge them more frequently and don't have to worry about daily spell budget as much. In fact, in that scenario, they can almost replace using your spell slots at all for anything except recharging if you get enough of them. But for a true fast-paced campaign where every day carries a high risk of combat and you can't afford to spend time sitting around and need a massive number of options? They don't work out so well.
You forget part of the cost: the 8 hours needed to pen a scroll, any scroll, regardless of the cost. If you have trouble with downtime that is 4 days to write a single scroll while travelling.
Without massive amounts of downtime penning your scrolls is counter-productive.
Only in the movies. In the books, he saw combat much more frequently.
Barrow wraith, Nazgul 2 times before Rivendell, orcs at Moria, Shelob, Gollum, (twice if I recall exactly), Saruman.
9 fights during a voyage that lasted from fall to the next summer.1 day in 30? It seem right.
I don't remember exactly how they worked now, but late 3.5 had runestaves that I remember being FAR more useful than staves. I think they gave you a list of spells you could substitute your prepared spells for when casting.
You forget part of the cost: the 8 hours needed to pen a scroll, any scroll, regardless of the cost. If you have trouble with downtime that is 4 days to write a single scroll while travelling.
Without massive amounts of downtime penning your scrolls is counter-productive.
That cost only applies if you are scribing them yourself. If you buy them already-scribed, the only time investment is in visiting the shop. That makes the time cost for scribing irrelevant.
Barrow wraith, Nazgul 2 times before Rivendell, orcs at Moria, Shelob, Gollum, (twice if I recall exactly), Saruman.
9 fights during a voyage that lasted from fall to the next summer.
1 day in 30? It seem right.
You forgot the near miss in the Shire, Old Man Willow, the near miss in Bree, the fact the first fight with Ringwraiths was a long encounter with him dying that lasted all the way until Rivendell, the fight with Boromir, Frodo getting captured by orcs and taken to be tortured, the fight with the Watchers, and one fight with Gollum towards the end.
You can feel free to discount the near-misses and the correction if you like. With them, it's 14 fights. Without them, it's 12. Including being taken prisoner or left near-death on three separate occasions (Boromir's brother took the hobbits prisoner for a bit of time as well).
You got the time the Ring was destroyed wrong (which is incredibly easy to do, really; Tolkien was sucky about dates). Gandalf asked him to leave in April; he didn't manage to sell his house and leave until September. And he arrived in Rivendell in October, where he stayed until December due to needing to heal and recover from his injuries. Moria happened in January. The Siege of Gondor happened in March, which is also the same month the Ring was destroyed (the assault on the Black Gate also happened in March, and coincided with the destruction of the Ring).
From September to March, you have 6 months, two of which were spent with Frodo recovering from his injuries. That's 1/3 of the quest time spent with him incapable of travel. So, realistically, he faced conflict or was dealing with the aftermath of it 1 day in 3.
Now, what does anything Frodo did have to do with the scenario I presented? Because to be blunt, it was an irrelevant example when presented and remains an irrelevant example now.
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You forget part of the cost: the 8 hours needed to pen a scroll, any scroll, regardless of the cost. If you have trouble with downtime that is 4 days to write a single scroll while travelling.
Without massive amounts of downtime penning your scrolls is counter-productive.
That cost only applies if you are scribing them yourself. If you buy them already-scribed, the only time investment is in visiting the shop. That makes the time cost for scribing irrelevant.
Barrow wraith, Nazgul 2 times before Rivendell, orcs at Moria, Shelob, Gollum, (twice if I recall exactly), Saruman.
9 fights during a voyage that lasted from fall to the next summer.
1 day in 30? It seem right.You forgot the near miss in the Shire, Old Man Willow, the near miss in Bree, the fact the first fight with Ringwraiths was a long encounter with him dying that lasted all the way until Rivendell, the fight with Boromir, Frodo getting captured by orcs and taken to be tortured, the fight with the Watchers, and one fight with Gollum towards the end.
You can feel free to discount the near-misses and the correction if you like. With them, it's 14 fights. Without them, it's 12. Including being taken prisoner or left near-death on three separate occasions (Boromir's brother took the hobbits prisoner for a bit of time as well).
You can feel free to discount the near-misses and the correction if you like. With them, it's 14 fights. Without them, it's 12. Including being taken prisoner or left near-death on three separate occasions (Boromir's brother took the hobbits prisoner for a bit of time as well).
You got the time the Ring was destroyed wrong (which is incredibly easy to do, really; Tolkien was sucky about dates). Gandalf asked him to leave in April; he didn't manage to sell his house and leave until September. And he arrived in Rivendell in October, where he stayed until December due to needing to heal and recover from his injuries. Moria happened in January. The Siege of Gondor happened in March, which is also the same month the Ring was destroyed (the assault on the Black Gate also happened in March, and coincided with the destruction of the Ring).
From September to March, you have 6 months, two of which were spent with Frodo recovering from his injuries. That's 1/3 of the quest time spent with him incapable of travel. So, realistically, he faced conflict or was dealing with the aftermath of it 1 day in 3.
Now, what does anything Frodo did have to do with the scenario I presented? Because to be blunt, it was an irrelevant example when presented and remains an irrelevant example now.
You argued that the cost of scroll is negligible, in particular if you writhe them yourself. I explained that the time cost has a high impact if you write the scrolls yourself.
Even if you buy them there is a time and/or spell cost. You either have to travel to a location where you can find them or you have to know it and teleport there and then teleport back to your starting point. So 2 5th level spells (with some chance of error, to boot).Wile the RAW is that scrolls are available in almost any location, a good number of GM use the minor (spell levels 0-3), medium (82-5) and major (4-9) as breaking points for the scroll availability in the different locations.
Even without that any scroll with a CL higher than the minimum CL is a custom item, so not automatically available.
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Frodo:
I included the meeting at the end of the book with Saruman and Wormtongue. So it was the next autumn.
But even without that we are speaking of 15 fights in 6 moths plus a few days of captivity. Let's say a grand total of 30 day of fighting or captivity.
But now you are saying that the 5 months of travel and rest in different locations are full time adventuring without downtime.
We have a very different vision of what is downtime.
Downtime isn't a GM saying "Now you have 5 months where nothing happen, how do you spend them?". Downtime is having resolved the immediate situation but not necessarily the whole problem and having the time to do something different from fighting.
With your vision of downtime Bilbo had no downtime between finding the One ring and giving it to Frodo. The main problem hadn't been resolved, even if he wasn't aware of that, so he had no downtime. Even worse for Gandalf, as he was actively searching for information about the ring during that period.
People had downtime during the siege of Stalingrad and Leningrad or that of Candia, even if someone in the cities was fighting every day.
You argued that the cost of scroll is negligible, in particular if you writhe them yourself. I explained that the time cost has a high impact if you write the scrolls yourself.
Even if you buy them there is a time and/or spell cost. You either have to travel to a location where you can find them or you have to know it and teleport there and then teleport back to your starting point. So 2 5th level spells (with some chance of error, to boot).
Wile the RAW is that scrolls are available in almost any location, a good number of GM use the minor (spell levels 0-3), medium (82-5) and major (4-9) as breaking points for the scroll availability in the different locations.
Even without that any scroll with a CL higher than the minimum CL is a custom item, so not automatically available.
I never argued that the cost of scribing scrolls is negligible; I merely used the cost of scribing to get the purchase cost of a scroll with a modified caster level. I did state elsewhere that there are better things to spend downtime on, but also stated those items are ones with effects that don't require charges; scrolls do not qualify as chargeless due to the nature of their existence.
The teleportation item is a non-issue; they have to visit those communities for resupply anyway, so not picking up additional magic items while they are there makes absolutely no sense. And custom scrolls can be ordered ahead of time and picked up during the next supply run, so the fact they are custom items isn't a big issue either.
Frodo:
I included the meeting at the end of the book with Saruman and Wormtongue. So it was the next autumn.But even without that we are speaking of 15 fights in 6 moths plus a few days of captivity. Let's say a grand total of 30 day of fighting or captivity.
But now you are saying that the 5 months of travel and rest in different locations are full time adventuring without downtime.
We have a very different vision of what is downtime.Downtime isn't a GM saying "Now you have 5 months where nothing happen, how do you spend them?". Downtime is having resolved the immediate situation but not necessarily the whole problem and having the time to do something different from fighting.
With your vision of downtime Bilbo had no downtime between finding the One ring and giving it to Frodo. The main problem hadn't been resolved, even if he wasn't aware of that, so he had no downtime. Even worse for Gandalf, as he was actively searching for information about the ring during that period.People had downtime during the siege of Stalingrad and Leningrad or that of Candia, even if someone in the cities was fighting every day.
I do not count being unconscious as downtime. And Frodo did spend a large majority of his time in Rivendell unconscious. Besides, it's kinda hard to prepare spells if you're not awake to prepare them.
So, I write off the entirety of Rivendell as not being free time because he was too busy recovering from his injuries and preparing for what to do next. Note, however, that I did not write off any of the time he spent travelling with the figure of one day out of three.
So from about September to at least November, you're talking about someone who went from having no time to truly rest and spending every moment on the run from forces actively trying to kill him to almost dying because those forces caught up to him to being unconscious for weeks on end. You could pretty much see the signs of early PTSD in the character by the point he left Rivendell, and he definitely had PTSD when the adventure finally ended.
And as for Downtime being that they resolved the immediate situation: That's the problem. They didn't resolve the immediate situation from the moment they left the Shire until they hit Rivendell; even the stop in Bree offered no comfort because they found out the Ringwraiths were there and searching for them. And even then Frodo didn't truly have it resolved until he was actually awake and recovering from his injuries. He went from running from the ringwraiths to fighting them to fighting for his life with the only space in between being time he didn't actually have to spend on the activities he did; this is proven by how the Ringwraiths caught up to him twice and how he almost didn't survive the second time.
Now, keep in mind we've moved the goalposts away from "how much conflict did Frodo see" to "how much downtime did Frodo have" and are seeing that, realistically, the more we examine the topic, the less time he actually had early on. We're talking from September to December for the immediate situation he was in to finally be resolved, thanks to the injury he sustained. That's gone from it being around 1/3 of the time to one half or more of the adventure not being downtime. The figures I had at least gave him 2 days out of 3 for downtime.
Now, the PCs are not Frodo and not soldiers in the real world. So what does this have to do with the situation I have been talking about where staves are not capable of being reliably recharged?
Indeed. So they would have to be called... glyphstaves instead.
Sigilsticks!
Or if the goblins get ahold of them...
Boomsticks!
Rune staves seem like a cheap version of page of knowledge, to me. Reskinned som pages as a staff if you want them. They also seem to have been quite a lot on the cheap side.
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For those of you looking to recharge your staff more quickly, you may want to look into the arcane battery.
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Why does a staff have to be charged in the morning? You can prepare spells as many times as you want, provided you leave some slots open. I agree that the INTENT is meant to be each day, or once per day.
Unless you are using some houseruled version of wands or scrolls, they never get more expensive than 33,000 gp.
Er...that's not true.
With feats and other abilities, you can actually push the caster level even higher, making the price increase dramatically over even that (I currently have a character on file with a caster level of 30).
For those of you looking to recharge your staff more quickly, you may want to look into the arcane battery.
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Why does a staff have to be charged in the morning? You can prepare spells as many times as you want, provided you leave some slots open. I agree that the INTENT is meant to be each day, or once per day.
Unless you are using some houseruled version of wands or scrolls, they never get more expensive than 33,000 gp.Er...that's not true.
With feats and other abilities, you can actually push the caster level even higher, making the price increase dramatically over even that (I currently have a character on file with a caster level of 30).
The recharge period for a staff is specified as morning:
"Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff. For example, a 9th-level wizard with a staff of fire could imbue the staff with one charge per day by using up one of his 4th-level spells. A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."
And, you're right on wands. That was my goof. However, that also disproves the point people were saying earlier about the adjustability of wands and reinforces my stance on staves... which is that, in certain campaigns, they are not worth it.
Edit- To specify, here is the cost of a staff using only one spell: 800gp x caster level (minimum 8) x spell level. This generates a staff with ten charges, making the base charge price 640gp (80 x 8).
The wand is 750gp x caster level (minimum level necessary to cast spell) x spell level. This generates a wand with 50 charges, making the base charge price 13gp.
For a staff with multiple spells, it is this formula: (800gp x caster level (minimum 8) x spell level) + (600gp x caster level (minimum 8) x spell level) + n(400gp x caster level (minimum 8) x spell level). This generates a staff with 10 charges, making the base charge price 640gp for 1 spell, 1120gp for 2 spells, 1440gp for 3 spells, and an increase of 320gp per spell after that.
The recharge period for a staff is specified as morning:
And it also says:
"Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff. For example, a 9th-level wizard with a staff of fire could imbue the staff with one charge per day by using up one of his 4th-level spells. A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."
Not everyone regains their spells in the morning. Arcane casters can do it at any time of the day. Divine casters have to do it at a specific time of day, but that specific time can be at any point during the day depending on the divine caster.
Or are you saying that divine casters that prepare their spells in the evening are unable to recharge a staff because it says "each morning".
"Each morning" should should just be ignored. It depends on when the caster regains his spell slots.
which is that, in certain campaigns,...That I can agree with, I misunderstood you to be saying they are never worth it.
Though Staff of Magi is faily useful in just about any campaign :)
I did say they're never worth it at first... but then I clarified why I hold that position. It's because I play in those campaigns a lot ;)
The recharge period for a staff is specified as morning:
And it also says:
"Staves hold a maximum of 10 charges. Each spell cast from a staff consumes one or more charges. When a staff runs out of charges, it cannot be used until it is recharged. Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff. For example, a 9th-level wizard with a staff of fire could imbue the staff with one charge per day by using up one of his 4th-level spells. A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."Not everyone regains their spells in the morning. Arcane casters can do it at any time of the day. Divine casters have to do it at a specific time of day, but that specific time can be at any point during the day depending on the divine caster.
Or are you saying that divine casters that prepare their spells in the evening are unable to recharge a staff because it says "each morning".
"Each morning" should should just be ignored. It depends on when the caster regains his spell slots.
I'm saying that, as written, divine spellcasters who prepare their spells in the evening are unable to recharge a staff due to a specification as to time of day when recharging is available. I'm also not the first one to say it in this thread.
Now, if they just changed "each morning" to "each day" or simply outright dropped "each morning" entirely, that issue would be resolved. However, the second option brings up other potential balance issues (but, at the same time, makes staves much more valuable).
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I've created a thread about the morning recharge issue in the Rules forum for FAQing.
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For those of you looking to recharge your staff more quickly, you may
Why does a staff have to be charged in the morning? You can prepare spells as many times as you want, provided you leave some slots open. I agree that the INTENT is meant to be each day, or once per day.
Not "in the morning" but almost certainly "when you memorize the bulk of your spell for the day and decide if you want to leave free slots or not".
Charging the staff is part of your spell slot management, and that is done when you first prepare your spell for the day.
The recharge period for a staff is specified as morning:
Se my earlier post about that and a divine caster that prepare spells at midnight never having the ability to charge a staff.
Staffs aren't hard to recharge now. You couldn't recharge them before.
Creating a stock pile of extra spell slots over time is not a bad deal. Basically better scrolls.
Staves 10/10 would craft/buy again
My issue with them is mostly that, at best, you are getting the ability to save a spell slot from a previous dayYeah... I'm not sure why you're talking that down though, being able to effectively save the spell slots you don't use is absolutely amazing.
Indeed. At best, you're able to save ten spell slots from previous days. That is fantastic under a fairly likely set of circumstances.
Indeed. At best, you're able to save ten spell slots from previous days. That is fantastic under a fairly likely set of circumstances.My issue with them is mostly that, at best, you are getting the ability to save a spell slot from a previous dayYeah... I'm not sure why you're talking that down though, being able to effectively save the spell slots you don't use is absolutely amazing.
And at worst, you'll have wasted thousands of gold you could have spent more effectively elsewhere on items with the same effect on saving spell slots, but cheaper.
Hey, had to balance it out :P If people want a realistic comparison, they can check my math on posts on here, then calculate how long it will take them to recoup the costs. Minimum of ten recharges for those who recharge.
You have to burn a spell to recharge ONE SINGLE CHARGE... and no, there's nothing that would allow a spellcaster to recharge a staff faster, such as a feat or class ability that allow him or her to use a spell to recharge a number of charges equal to that spell's level.
Why has it become so hard to recharge a staff?
You're lucky!
Back in 3.5, only the Staff of the Magi was rechargeable and that was an artifact.
If I were a 7th level diviner wizard in a zombie apocalypse campaign, I would gladly tote around a staff of fire. If in a single encounter, I had to cast four burning hands and two fireballs from the staff, great. I'm glad I have it. Even if it means for the next ten days I would have to give up my fourth level divination bonus spell slot, I would be trading out casting arcane eye, detect scrying, locate creature or scrying for those ten days.
The usefulness of a staff depends on the user, the staff and the campaign setting. I think there have been plenty of examples throughout the thread as to why a staff is worthwhile. Sure, not every staff and not every campaign, but enough to seriously consider it when one shows up in the pile of loot.
Some other thoughts on using a magic staff:
If your staff is intelligent it could be recharging.
A level 20 arcane bloodline sorcerer can trade 3 spell levels to prevent a drain of a charge. So instead of recharging a staff you could simply trade spell levels for higher spell levels making a staff infinity more attractive for this one particular individual (example: Trading 3 first level spell slots for a higher level spell, or 2 3rd level slots for a higher level spell that uses two charges).
Finally: Not all tools have to be useful to every character type at all times.
Indeed. At best, you're able to save ten spell slots from previous days. That is fantastic under a fairly likely set of circumstances.My issue with them is mostly that, at best, you are getting the ability to save a spell slot from a previous dayYeah... I'm not sure why you're talking that down though, being able to effectively save the spell slots you don't use is absolutely amazing.And at worst, you'll have wasted thousands of gold you could have spent more effectively elsewhere on items with the same effect on saving spell slots, but cheaper.
Hey, had to balance it out :P If people want a realistic comparison, they can check my math on posts on here, then calculate how long it will take them to recoup the costs. Minimum of ten recharges for those who recharge.
True. There are no guaranteed best buys; you prepare as best you can with the information you have. In some campaigns, the Big Six aren't even all that important. (Those are my favorite campaigns, of course.)
Actually, for a 15th-level wizard with a staff arcane bond, the best option would probably be to make the arcane bond into a staff of power. In addition to the halving of the cost (arcane bond, remember), the wizard also gets a +2 luck bonus to both AC & saving throws, as well as getting a +2 quarterstaff.
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Actually, for a 15th-level wizard with a staff arcane bond, the best option would probably be to make the arcane bond into a staff of power. In addition to the halving of the cost (arcane bond, remember), the wizard also gets a +2 luck bonus to both AC & saving throws, as well as getting a +2 quarterstaff.
You pay the normal crafting cost for a bonded item (half of the purchase price, generally), so the only advantages of making a staff your bonded object is that you don't need the Craft Staff feat and if damaged (but not destroyed) your staff is fully repaired when you regain your spells.
As weapons and armors are the items that have more hp that sometime can matter. If someone sunder your bonded ring, amulet or wand there is little chance for it to survive.
You forgot the near miss in the Shire, Old Man Willow, the near miss in Bree, the fact the first fight with Ringwraiths was a long encounter with him dying that lasted all the way until Rivendell, the fight with Boromir, Frodo getting captured by orcs and taken to be tortured, the fight with the Watchers, and one fight with Gollum towards the end.
You can feel free to discount the near-misses and the correction if you like. With them, it's 14 fights. Without them, it's 12. Including being taken prisoner or left near-death on three separate occasions (Boromir's brother took the hobbits prisoner for a bit of time as well).
SPOILERS. Jesus.
They're also protected non-open IP as well.
Heh.
SPOILERS. Jesus.You forgot the near miss in the Shire, Old Man Willow, the near miss in Bree, the fact the first fight with Ringwraiths was a long encounter with him dying that lasted all the way until Rivendell, the fight with Boromir, Frodo getting captured by orcs and taken to be tortured, the fight with the Watchers, and one fight with Gollum towards the end.
You can feel free to discount the near-misses and the correction if you like. With them, it's 14 fights. Without them, it's 12. Including being taken prisoner or left near-death on three separate occasions (Boromir's brother took the hobbits prisoner for a bit of time as well).
The book seried was published decades before I was born. Too late for spoilers to be called :P