Basically what the title says, are there any noticeable upsides to using a double-weapon over just using two of the same one-handed weapon?
A double weapon counts as having a light weapon in your off hand reducing the two weapon fighting penalty.
In order to do that with 2 weapons you have to use 2 light weapons.
So double sword 1d8/1d8, vs 2 shortswords 1d6/1d6. Its not a big difference but it is a difference.
There is also the advantage that you can have a free hand without droping one of your weapons. IE if you need to pull out a potion, or grab something you can merely hold your double weapon in one hand, and then return to weilding it once you finish with the other thing. You have to drop or sheath a off hand weapon to drink a potion or otherwise use a hand to manipulate something.
As Kolokotroni said, it give you one dice bigger thant using the equivalent (2 light weapons). So, with one feat (or one trait in some case, like Half-Elf and Half-Orc), you get +2 on your max damage. So, is it really good? No, not that good. But if you want to do a double-weapon fighter for the Idea, it's perfectly viable (depending of the level, you will be behing or in front of a normal 2 light weapons fighter).
There is also some double weapon that work differently, like the Kusarigama, who will give you a mix of special habilites (reach, trip, d8 damage, etc...)
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What, nobody heard of the ancient Viennese dire flail regimens?
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Double weapons also can count as a Two handed weapon if you only get to make one attack in a round (for example, on a charge), letting you get the 1.5 str bonus and improved power attack rate that you would miss with two light weapons.
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The only weapon better than the dire flail at causing friendly fire is the orc crusher... A flexible rod several feet long, slammed into the ground, then the iron ball at the end is swung forward and back or to the side. This can't hit adjacent enemies, but those 10' away. Just imagine a whole group of these guys, protected by dire flail wielders!!! The awesome would just be too much for the average hobbyist gamer...
Double weapons also can count as a Two handed weapon if you only get to make one attack in a round (for example, on a charge), letting you get the 1.5 str bonus and improved power attack rate that you would miss with two light weapons.
You can only treat a double weapon as two handed for a single attack? I thought it was just a thing you could choose to do?
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Double weapons also can count as a Two handed weapon if you only get to make one attack in a round (for example, on a charge), letting you get the 1.5 str bonus and improved power attack rate that you would miss with two light weapons.You can only treat a double weapon as two handed for a single attack? I thought it was just a thing you could choose to do?
You can. It was just pointing out that you can do that when you are limited to a single attack - IE if you are charging or otherwise unable to make a full attack.
Not a single attack, but you can give up your off-hand attack and use a double weapon as a two-handed weapon.
My favorite double weapons are things where the two heads are different, like the urgrosh or the gnome hooked hammer. They give you different options for use, all in the same weapon.
If you have two light weapons, it will cost twice as much to enchant both weapons as it would to enchant a single double weapon.
That is about the only cost effective bonus I can think of.
In the SII category, does anyone remember the gyrspike from 3.5? That looked painful to wield.
Then again, I kept thinking you shouldn't wield it as a sword with a flail on its pommel, but as a flail with a blade on its pommel.
Double weapons also can count as a Two handed weapon if you only get to make one attack in a round (for example, on a charge), letting you get the 1.5 str bonus and improved power attack rate that you would miss with two light weapons.You can only treat a double weapon as two handed for a single attack? I thought it was just a thing you could choose to do?
Just to clarify before confusion becomes a thing since that sounded wonky:
With a double weapon, you have 3 options present:1) Hold it in two hands, using both ends for TWF, with strength bonus*1 for the mainhand (and off-hand if you have double slice; half strength if not).
2) Hold it in two hands, using one end as a THW, you don't gain the ability to TWF with it but do gain 1.5*strength bonus
3) Hold it one handed, giving you a free end. Can't TWF with it (unless another weapon is in your offhand), treat the double weapon as a normal one-handed weapon doing this.
Option 1 tends to win out over other weapons by either bigger damage dice (let alone stuff on modifier with light weapons and power attack), or lesser penalties to attack rolls. 2 is something you could do wielding a pair of one-handed weapons if you don't draw one of them but to then draw the other and attack, you need quick draw. 3 is something you can't do with two separate weapons without doing it before you draw your off-hand or dropping it.
Let alone the above point on sunder attempts.
Disadvantages to a double weapon over two separate weapons includes, but is not limited to not having Two-Weapon Defence.
If you have two light weapons, it will cost twice as much to enchant both weapons as it would to enchant a single double weapon.
My understanding is that each end of a double weapon needs to be enchanted separately, so no cost savings there.
On the short term, it looks like a single casting of magic weapon will work on both ends of such a weapon, so you can squeeze a bit more out of your spells.
The main advantage IMHO is tactical flexibility. Your double sword can be cold iron and adamant at the same time.
Nope, it's still a two-handed weapon, you can't wield it in one hand. You can still hold it and cast spells, retrieve items, and whatnot, but while you don't have two hands on it, you aren't wielding it.
Nope, it's still a two-handed weapon, you can't wield it in one hand. You can still hold it and cast spells, retrieve items, and whatnot, but while you don't have two hands on it, you aren't wielding it.
Edit: Sorry, I put that very rudely, to recanting that - as I've given in a linked quote, it is in the rules that you can.
That's for double weapons of the wrong size, like a human picking up a gnome-sized hooked hammer. It's a one-handed weapon in that case.
Nope, it's still a two-handed weapon, you can't wield it in one hand. You can still hold it and cast spells, retrieve items, and whatnot, but while you don't have two hands on it, you aren't wielding it.Edit: Sorry, I put that very rudely, to recanting that - as I've given in a linked quote, it is in the rules that you can.
A double weapon is a two handed weapon. It ways so on the equipment charts.
That sentence is referring to wielding a double weapon for a creature smaller than you. A Medium-sized creature wielding a Medium-sized double weapon must do so with two hands. A Large-sized creature can wield the same Medium-sized weapon in only one hand, but it won't be considered a double weapon.
Is it possible to craft two swords that can be combined into a double weapon?
That's for double weapons of the wrong size, like a human picking up a gnome-sized hooked hammer. It's a one-handed weapon in that case.
A double weapon is a two handed weapon. It ways so on the equipment charts.
That sentence is referring to wielding a double weapon for a creature smaller than you. A Medium-sized creature wielding a Medium-sized double weapon must do so with two hands. A Large-sized creature can wield the same Medium-sized weapon in only one hand, but it won't be considered a double weapon.
My mistake - irritating my false inference is stuck up there now with things that aren't complete fabrication.
You can. It was just pointing out that you can do that when you are limited to a single attack - IE if you are charging or otherwise unable to make a full attack.Double weapons also can count as a Two handed weapon if you only get to make one attack in a round (for example, on a charge), letting you get the 1.5 str bonus and improved power attack rate that you would miss with two light weapons.You can only treat a double weapon as two handed for a single attack? I thought it was just a thing you could choose to do?
You could use it as a 2handed weapon for full attacks. The main advantage here is that you get the option to do either style.
TWF is strong due to the fact that it can do a lot of damage on a full attack if you have some nice bonuses to each and every hit (sneak attack, favored enemy, weapon specialization and training, smite, etc). Unfortunately, when you can't get a full attack, it tends to be weaker than a 2handed weapon, which is the king of one-big-hit from 1.5x STR and power attack (And most of the best TWF classes have good BAB for power attack). That means that 2handers can do more overall damage when opponents are moving about. Having to deal with that difference between potential damage and the damage you can do during an actual fight is one of the major problems of TWF.
Double weapons allow you to use either style whenever you choose. You can charge in with a 2handed swing, and then slice them up next turn with a whirlwind of smaller attacks that each are bolstered by....whatever made you consider TWF in the first place. Thus, you have the best of both worlds.
If an enemy has high DR that is another reason to use it as a two handed weapon.
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I think a good way to compare double weapons to two weapons is to compare the two-bladed sword, two long swords, and two short swords. All of this will assume TWF feat, but no double slice, and a BAB <6.
Two-bladed sword:
TWF penalty: -2
TWF damage: 2d8+strmod*1.5
Single attack damage: 1d8+strmod*1.5
Free-hand option: hold weapon in one hand, not wielded
Proficiency: exotic
Two long swords:
TWF penalty: -4
TWF damage: 2d8+strmod*1.5
Single attack damage: 1d8+strmod
Free-hand option: drop or stow one long sword, other long sword is wielded
Proficiency: martial
Two short swords:
TWF penalty: -2
TWF damage: 2d6+strmod*1.5
Single attack damage: 1d6+strmod
Free-hand option: drop or stow one short sword, other short sword is wielded
Proficiency: martial
The two-bladed sword does long sword damage at short sword penalties when two-weapon fighting. It gets an extra 50% strmod to damage when making a single attack over the long sword, and an additional +1 average damage over the short sword due to weapon die. One handed options are a bit more balanced, depending if you value keeping your weapon(s) available or wielded more. The two-bladed sword will likely cost you some character option to be proficient with (probably a feat).
Overall, double weapons are really best at letting the wielder function as either a two-handed combatant or two-weapon combatant, depending on which one would be best for that round. It only takes one feat (power attack) to be good at two-handed fighting, so your two-weapon fighter can probably fit it in easily if they either have the proficiency or can use a feat on it.
TL;DR- double weapons are mechanically powerful, versatile, and cool.
Correct me if I'm wrong but why wield two short swords? The penalty for two weapon fighting is -2 & -2 if you have the TWF feat, a 1 handed weapon in main hand and a light weapon in the off hand. So if you are TWFing it's like longsword in one, short in the other. There is no point in TWFing with 'just' two light weapons.
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There is no point in TWFing with 'just' two light weapons.
It saves you from having to take Weapon Focus and other weapon-specific feats more than once. (e.g. Valeros uses a longsword and short sword and thus has to take Weapon Focus: Longsword and Weapon Focus: Short Sword, continuing on down the line. Using two short swords cuts the number of feats spent in half.)
It's better for many class to go with 2 short sword. Weapon focus, weapon expertise and Improved Critical will affect the 2 weapon, instead of just one at a time.
Correct me if I'm wrong but why wield two short swords? The penalty for two weapon fighting is -2 & -2 if you have the TWF feat, a 1 handed weapon in main hand and a light weapon in the off hand. So if you are TWFing it's like longsword in one, short in the other. There is no point in TWFing with 'just' two light weapons.
Sure there is. Feats. With two short swords, they both benefit from Weapon Focus (Short Sword). With a long sword and a short sword, you need 2 feats.
Usually you TWF with the same weapon because it lets you use feats with more efficiency (Weapon focus, for example)
edit, 3 times ninja'd :PPP
He was swarmed lol.
There is some case where you can go with 2 different weapon: Ranger, for example, don't get that much ''chosen weapon feat'', so he could go with long/short an still be rocking (it's just +1AB differences, and the crit road is usefull only whit crit 18-20 or 19-20: if you do a Dwarf ranger with 2 axes, it's not that usefull imo)
Because you want to make both ends brilliant energy and be darth maul.
Because you want to make both ends brilliant energy and be darth maul.
That wasn't the reason for my brilliant energy two-bladed sword lich warlord villain, not at all... Nope...
That said, simply look at something like the Monk's Spade. It's a double weapon, that has the option for all 3 damage types. Fighting a skeleton, an ooze, and a zombie? Monk Spade's gotcha covered brah.
My favorite, by far, is the Meteor Hammer. Get yourself a double weapon to whack adjacent foes silly with Meteor Mode. If they start moving back, or you need a bit of defense, pop that sucker into Fortress Mode and get yourself a +1 shield bonus while you've got a 2handed reach weapon.
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Because you want to make both ends brilliant energy and be darth maul.That wasn't the reason for my brilliant energy two-bladed sword lich warlord villain, not at all... Nope...
That said, simply look at something like the Monk's Spade. It's a double weapon, that has the option for all 3 damage types. Fighting a skeleton, an ooze, and a zombie? Monk Spade's gotcha covered brah.
My favorite, by far, is the Meteor Hammer. Get yourself a double weapon to whack adjacent foes silly with Meteor Mode. If they start moving back, or you need a bit of defense, pop that sucker into Fortress Mode and get yourself a +1 shield bonus while you've got a 2handed reach weapon.
The 3 damage types thing is neat, but if you are going to take weapon focus with whatever weapon you wield, you might want to just take Weapon Versatility instead of EWP[Monk's Spade], since that works with any weapon you have weapon focus in, and can be hilarious [I cut him in half and then impale him to keep him together, with my Quarterstaff].
Evil Paladin, Monk's spade is a martial weapon. It's the Meteor Hammer that's an exotic.
Also, SMR... Meteor Hammer's worth it IMO even if you need EWP (which a human fighter can pull off easily). I've used it to some rather fantastic effect. Many wouldn't think the +1 shield bonus is worth it, but... That +1 has saved my rumpus many a time. My fiance's TWFers almost exclusively use the Meteor Hammer. She's in love with that thing, lol. Specially since switching it is a free action at the start of your turn. (For thematics, I like to use a Dorn Dergar when she uses the Meteor Hammer. Though the DD isn't a double xD)
Exactly where does it say a Double-weapon gets 1.5 str bonus on Power Attack? The text description for Double weapons say that when you use it to TWF you treat it as a one-handed and light weapon.
Exactly where does it say a Double-weapon gets 1.5 str bonus on Power Attack? The text description for Double weapons say that when you use it to TWF you treat it as a one-handed and light weapon.
Double Weapons: A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
That means if you were to TWF with it, it's treated as a one handed and light weapon. They can use it two handed, attacking with only 1 hand. Thus, anything that applies to 2-handers applies to double-weapons. Plus, Double weps are 2-handed category.
Far as I've read the posts, they're referring to when you're just attacking with one end.
Far as I've read the posts, they're referring to when you're just attacking with one end.
Oh okay, I thought they were saying like "Well you can get 1.5 str bonus on your off hand with a double weapon!" or somesuch broken nonsense.
Also - another disadvantage to a double weapon is that you can't hide it on your body (as per Sleight of Hand) and you probably can't keep it sheathed (DM fiat?) so you might not be able to get the benefit of some magical scabbards and somesuch.
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Evil Paladin, Monk's spade is a martial weapon. It's the Meteor Hammer that's an exotic.
Also, SMR... Meteor Hammer's worth it IMO even if you need EWP (which a human fighter can pull off easily). I've used it to some rather fantastic effect. Many wouldn't think the +1 shield bonus is worth it, but... That +1 has saved my rumpus many a time. My fiance's TWFers almost exclusively use the Meteor Hammer. She's in love with that thing, lol. Specially since switching it is a free action at the start of your turn. (For thematics, I like to use a Dorn Dergar when she uses the Meteor Hammer. Though the DD isn't a double xD)
I stand corrected, thanks.
You get the benefit of a light weapon in your off hand, but can use power attack with both ends.