I was talking with a friend the other day and we got to thinking just how absurd barbarians can get in terms of the damage they can take from the environment. A level 12 Barbarian can easily(kinda of low actually) have around 120 hit points. This means he can literally "Swim" through frikin LAVA(20d6 fire dmg for total immersion) for a round maybe two if he is lucky and come out the other side alive! If he feels like it he can fall, reach terminal velocity (20d6 falling dmg), land, brush himself off, and be home in time for corn flakes. He can even take a few colossal sized rocks(10d6 falling dmg) straight to his everything.
I realize that there are down falls of the barbarian, but the imagery of these things happening is just down right hilarious.
What do you guys think of this, and if you have any good barbarian stories please feel more than free to share.
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Because casting a spell to bring a tyrannosaurus into the world is so realistic?
Think of the barbarian as a much lesser version of The Hulk - he can take massive amounts of physical punishment, but only to a point.
Also, if you want more "realism" in your RPG, GURPS is known for being absurdly deadly in random bursts.
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Uh...that's not Barbarians, it's high level characters in general. Your average 12th level Wizard with a Con of 16 or so (easily achievable with items, and a pretty optimal build) and Favored Class in HP has 98 HP and can casually survive the things you list.
Barbarians are more so, mind you, but the issue you're talking about is general, not class-specific.
Hey Captian Von Spicy Wiener, welcome to D&D!
Is the barbarian in combat? Otherwise the GM can simply say "you died from swimming on lava".
- "Why? Lava deals only 20d6 damage per round."
"How exactly your barbarian would know that? He jumped on magma and died."
Uh...that's not Barbarians, it's high level characters in general. Your average 12th level Wizard with a Con of 16 or so (easily achievable with items, and a pretty optimal build) and Favored Class in HP has 98 HP and can casually survive the things you list.
Barbarians are more so, mind you, but the issue you're talking about is general, not class-specific.
I suppose you are correct. I don't really have an issue with high level characters having so much hp I just find the imagery to be quite silly.
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It amuses me to think about how things interact with my naked Barbarian with DR 21 / -. I imagine arrows just bounce off his chest and daggers break upon contact with his gut. And then he looks down at his assailant and asks if they really want to continue this.
But still the imagery is only really silly if you don't accept that after a certain level you are playing someone who is essentially a demigod.
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I was talking with a friend the other day and we got to thinking just how absurd barbarians can get in terms of the damage they can take from the environment. A level 12 Barbarian can easily(kinda of low actually) have around 120 hit points. This means he can literally "Swim" through frikin LAVA(20d6 fire dmg for total immersion) for a round maybe two if he is lucky and come out the other side alive! If he feels like it he can fall, reach terminal velocity (20d6 falling dmg), land, brush himself off, and be home in time for corn flakes. He can even take a few colossal sized rocks(10d6 falling dmg) straight to his everything.
I realize that there are down falls of the barbarian, but the imagery of these things happening is just down right hilarious.
What do you guys think of this, and if you have any good barbarian stories please feel more than free to share.
What most people dont realize is dnd leaves any sense of reality very early on. Human ability ends about 5th level. The absolute peak of human capability is maybe 6th level. A 12th level barbarian is a super hero. So yea he can walk through lava, so? The cleric is a literal walking miracle, the wizard bends time and space to his will, why are we concerned that a barbarian can deal with some lava?
It amuses me to think about how things interact with my naked Barbarian with DR 21 / -. I imagine arrows just bounce off his chest and daggers break upon contact with his gut. And then he looks down at his assailant and asks if they really want to continue this.
Oh my, I must ask how the DR is so high. Also your picture fits quite well.
Dot
It amuses me to think about how things interact with my naked Barbarian with DR 21 / -. I imagine arrows just bounce off his chest and daggers break upon contact with his gut. And then he looks down at his assailant and asks if they really want to continue this.Oh my, I must ask how the DR is so high. Also your picture fits quite well.
The character is level 14. Invulnerable Rager gives 7, the Dragon Totem line gives 6, and then I have Improved Stalwart for 8. It takes a lot of prerequisites to make happen, but it's very satisfying when you get to witness your enemy's stunned disbelief when they throw their best at you and you yawn, completely unharmed.
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It amuses me to think about how things interact with my naked Barbarian with DR 21 / -. I imagine arrows just bounce off his chest and daggers break upon contact with his gut. And then he looks down at his assailant and asks if they really want to continue this.Oh my, I must ask how the DR is so high. Also your picture fits quite well.
Invulnerable Rager + Dragon Totem Powers + Improved DR Rage Powers + Stalwart and Improved Stalwart can actually get it quite a bit higher than that.
That's a very specific build (and probably not the best one)...but it is lots of fun to watch swords bounce off your skin. Of course, that whole 'high level PCs are demigods' thing is very much in effect by the point this sort of thing kicks in.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Ah, well.
That DR is just hilarious good on you guys for that haha
And if the gm arbitrarily decides that your character mechanics don't work because it is not combat then he needs to re-evaluate his rulings. Yes, jumping into lava is pretty bone headed (although I can see circumstances in which it could very easily happen) but that doesn't mean you should just ignore character ability.
Any sort of metagaming knowledge being used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
How would a barbarian know that he can survive in magma? How does he know it deals only 20d6 damage per round, or even whats a d6? How does he know that he could survive one maybe two rounds swimming in magma instead of dying instantly?
The character doesnt, his player does. If he did some kind of divination spell to obtain that knowledge (even Augury works), or happened to accidentally fall on magma and survived before, then his character would know that he is tough enough to survive.
Otherwise, nope, dead.
His character wouldnt know how long he can survive, and would probably be pretty stupid and stay there for longer than he could endure (he was already stupid enough to jump on magma willingly). Or due to the consistency of magma (its not water, afterall), he couldnt get a hold to get out and simply burned away.
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What most people dont realize is dnd leaves any sense of reality very early on. Human ability ends about 5th level. The absolute peak of human capability is maybe 6th level. A 12th level barbarian is a super hero. So yea he can walk through lava, so? The cleric is a literal walking miracle, the wizard bends time and space to his will, why are we concerned that a barbarian can deal with some lava?I was talking with a friend the other day and we got to thinking just how absurd barbarians can get in terms of the damage they can take from the environment. A level 12 Barbarian can easily(kinda of low actually) have around 120 hit points. This means he can literally "Swim" through frikin LAVA(20d6 fire dmg for total immersion) for a round maybe two if he is lucky and come out the other side alive! If he feels like it he can fall, reach terminal velocity (20d6 falling dmg), land, brush himself off, and be home in time for corn flakes. He can even take a few colossal sized rocks(10d6 falling dmg) straight to his everything.
I realize that there are down falls of the barbarian, but the imagery of these things happening is just down right hilarious.
What do you guys think of this, and if you have any good barbarian stories please feel more than free to share.
Except for fighters, we still have to conform to the laws of physics.
Except for fighters, we still have to conform to the laws of physics.
Uh oh here comes the Physics discussions.
And if the gm arbitrarily decides that your character mechanics don't work because it is not combat then he needs to re-evaluate his rulings. Yes, jumping into lava is pretty bone headed (although I can see circumstances in which it could very easily happen) but that doesn't mean you should just ignore character ability.Any sort of metagaming knowledge being used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
How would a barbarian know that he can survive in magma? How does he know it deals only 20d6 damage per round, or even whats a d6? How does he know that he could survive one maybe two rounds swimming in magma instead of dying instantly?
The character doesnt, his player does. If he did some kind of divination spell to obtain that knowledge (even Augury works), or happened to accidentally fall on magma and survived before, then his character would know that he is tough enough to survive.
Otherwise, nope, dead.His character wouldnt know how long he can survive, and would probably be pretty stupid and stay there for longer than he could endure (he was already stupid enough to jump on magma willingly). Or due to the consistency of magma (its not water, afterall), he couldnt get a hold to get out and simply burned away.
The damage being rolled and the loss of HP each round might tip him off.
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And if the gm arbitrarily decides that your character mechanics don't work because it is not combat then he needs to re-evaluate his rulings. Yes, jumping into lava is pretty bone headed (although I can see circumstances in which it could very easily happen) but that doesn't mean you should just ignore character ability.Any sort of metagaming knowledge being used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
How would a barbarian know that he can survive in magma? How does he know it deals only 20d6 damage per round, or even whats a d6? How does he know that he could survive one maybe two rounds swimming in magma instead of dying instantly?
Its not metagame knowledge any more then a skilled acrobat knows how high he can jump down from without injuring himself, or how I know if I grab a hot pot it will hurt but not kill me. We can make generalizations in our daily life about how much things hurt us and what we can endure. A 12th level barbarian is super human, so he isnt worried about hot pots or short drops. His life experience of getting bitten by and breathed fire on by mythical creatures gives him a general sense of how much punishment he can take.
The character doesnt, his player does. If he did some kind of divination spell to obtain that knowledge (even Augury works), or happened to accidentally fall on magma and survived before, then his character would know that he is tough enough to survive.
Otherwise, nope, dead.
So every time you take a short hop off a bench its a life or death descison? You cant possibly know how high you can drop form, or whether or not a buring pot will burn you or kill you? Even if you have never been scalded by boiling water, you still have a frame of reference for how dangerous it is to you. Again, the frame of reference for the barbarian is superhuman. Superman often dives into lava. Does that mean the first time he did that his gm should have killed him?
Maybe he hasnt walked through lave. But he's probably experience some pretty serious fire damage (fire ball for instance), he does have a rational frame of reference.
His character wouldnt know how long he can survive, and would probably be pretty stupid and stay there for longer than he could endure (he was already stupid enough to jump on magma willingly). Or due to the consistency of magma (its not water, afterall), he couldnt get a hold to get out and simply burned away.
If he stayed in it sure. Thats what round by round damage is for. But that doesnt mean you should arbitrarily kill him should he dain to do it. Human beings cant fly, does that mean that the first time the wizard casts featherfall he should simply fall because he didnt have an understanding of how it would work? Or is only physical character abilities that should be removed in the face of first time experiences.
The damage being rolled and the loss of HP each round might tip him off.
How would you rule his swim checks to escape? DC 20 (stormy waters) or DC 15 (rough water)?
Its not covered by any rules, so i would say it's GM call on the DC to move around.
What if he fails his check and goes "underwater"?
Human beings cant fly, does that mean that the first time the wizard casts featherfall he should simply fall because he didnt have an understanding of how it would work?
I will just address this particular line.
The mage is assumed to be studying new spells before fully learning them, so he would know how it works because he practiced it.The barbarian automatically knows all of his abilities aswell. But he isnt an expert on hazards, not without a Knowledge (Nature) or Knowledge (Dungeonering) check.
how I know if I grab a hot pot it will hurt but not kill me.
Thats now metagaming at all, because we all have burned ourselves doing that, even if you cant remember.
The damage being rolled and the loss of HP each round might tip him off.How would you rule his swim checks to escape? DC 20 (stormy waters) or DC 15 (rough water)?
Its not covered by any rules, so i would say it's GM call on the DC to move around.
What if he fails his check and goes "underwater"?Human beings cant fly, does that mean that the first time the wizard casts featherfall he should simply fall because he didnt have an understanding of how it would work?I will just address this particular line.
The mage is assumed to be studying new spells before fully learning them, so he would know how it works because he practiced it.
The barbarian automatically knows all of his abilities aswell. But he isnt an expert on hazards, not without a Knowledge (Nature) or Knowledge (Dungeonering) check.
Him going in and not being able to get out because he fails a swim check (or somehow lacks the ability to fly at 12th level) is not the same as saying 'you die' because he jumped in.
Him going in and not being able to get out because he fails a swim check (or somehow lacks the ability to fly at 12th level) is not the same as saying 'you die' because he jumped in.
Did i say at any moment that they are the same thing?
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And if the gm arbitrarily decides that your character mechanics don't work because it is not combat then he needs to re-evaluate his rulings. Yes, jumping into lava is pretty bone headed (although I can see circumstances in which it could very easily happen) but that doesn't mean you should just ignore character ability.Any sort of metagaming knowledge being used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
How would a barbarian know that he can survive in magma? How does he know it deals only 20d6 damage per round, or even whats a d6? How does he know that he could survive one maybe two rounds swimming in magma instead of dying instantly?
The character doesnt, his player does. If he did some kind of divination spell to obtain that knowledge (even Augury works), or happened to accidentally fall on magma and survived before, then his character would know that he is tough enough to survive.
Otherwise, nope, dead.His character wouldnt know how long he can survive, and would probably be pretty stupid and stay there for longer than he could endure (he was already stupid enough to jump on magma willingly). Or due to the consistency of magma (its not water, afterall), he couldnt get a hold to get out and simply burned away.
Maybe other characters have done it before.
I would not think to try to break a brick with my bare hands, but martial artist do it, so now I know it can be done. I know a brick is not lava, but many things that are harmful have been proven to be possible, and we are not even fantasy characters.
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Him going in and not being able to get out because he fails a swim check (or somehow lacks the ability to fly at 12th level) is not the same as saying 'you die' because he jumped in.Did i say at any moment that they are the same thing?
I was going by this statement
Is the barbarian in combat? Otherwise the GM can simply say "you died from swimming on lava".
So in other words, I dont think anyone would argue jumping into lava is foolish, and if you require difficult checks to get out, sure that makes sense. But that is different from your original statement quoted above. The arbitrary rules ignoring 'you die' statement is what people are arguing against.
The arbitrary rules ignoring 'you die' statement is what people are arguing against.
Instant death really sucks for any players no matter the circumstances. I ran The Tomb of Horrors a while back one of my players decides to dive into a hole in the wall... it was a sphere of annihilation. To be fair I had asked four times how he was going to enter the hole before he when in. Each time he said that he was going to leap in the hole. Even I felt bad.
I feel this is warranted: What falling into lava does to a person.
I was going by this statement
Which was out of context and given in reply to another poster.
I did mention "how would you rule...".I feel this is warranted: What falling into lava does to a person.
Yep, try swimming out of this.
tl;dr:
Try to make an egotistical ex-gladiator barbarian.
Accidentally make an affable, legend-spreading glory-seeker.
Try and buy a mansion and fill it with cool stuff.
Accidentally become a patron of the arts.
Try and keep people from stealing my stuff.
Accidentally clean up the crime in this town.
Try and start a harem.
Accidentally start a women's college.
Try to be a full-throttle, hookers-and-blow cash money millionaire.
Accidentally become an accountant.
Why am I so bad at being bad?
Awwww Yiss stories like these are the entire reason I have stuck around playing D&D and Pathfinder. They are really what make the game fun for me. Thanks for sharing buddy!
All Hail Bahram!!!
Yep, try swimming out of this.
Got about 1-2 rounds which equates to roughly 6-12 seconds IF the swim checks can be made(and that's a big IF) and the "shore" is 40 feet away or closer then it's still a maybe on the whole living thing
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I was talking with a friend the other day and we got to thinking just how absurd barbarians can get in terms of the damage they can take from the environment. A level 12 Barbarian can easily(kinda of low actually) have around 120 hit points. This means he can literally "Swim" through frikin LAVA(20d6 fire dmg for total immersion) for a round maybe two if he is lucky and come out the other side alive!
Meanwhile, his wizard buddy of the same level can cast a spell from the BOTTOM half of his spell levels, stick his arm in the lava and literally syphon the power of lava into his attacks without taking any damage at all.
If he feels like it he can fall, reach terminal velocity (20d6 falling dmg), land, brush himself off, and be home in time for corn flakes.
Meanwhile, his wizard buddy is literally flying all day, incapable of even taking that fall in the first place, and will have eaten all the corn flakes before the barbarian even gets home because he doesn't have to be troubled by things like "terrain" or "going around things"; he can just travel in a straight line ("as the crow flies", to use the archaic expression).
Or if he really wants to rub it in, he can just teleport.
He can even take a few colossal sized rocks(10d6 falling dmg) straight to his everything.
His wizard buddy, still literally flying all day, doesn't have to worry about things falling on him unless reverse gravity is involved, because things don't normally fall up.
I realize that there are down falls of the barbarian, but the imagery of these things happening is just down right hilarious.
What do you guys think of this, and if you have any good barbarian stories please feel more than free to share.
Personally, I don't find it "downright hilarious", I find it fun. For my own personal gaming aesthetics, being able to do the impossible doesn't need to require having a spell cast on you first.
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And if the gm arbitrarily decides that your character mechanics don't work because it is not combat then he needs to re-evaluate his rulings. Yes, jumping into lava is pretty bone headed (although I can see circumstances in which it could very easily happen) but that doesn't mean you should just ignore character ability.Any sort of metagaming knowledge being used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
How would a barbarian know that he can survive in magma? How does he know it deals only 20d6 damage per round, or even whats a d6? How does he know that he could survive one maybe two rounds swimming in magma instead of dying instantly?
The character doesnt, his player does. If he did some kind of divination spell to obtain that knowledge (even Augury works), or happened to accidentally fall on magma and survived before, then his character would know that he is tough enough to survive.
Otherwise, nope, dead.His character wouldnt know how long he can survive, and would probably be pretty stupid and stay there for longer than he could endure (he was already stupid enough to jump on magma willingly). Or due to the consistency of magma (its not water, afterall), he couldnt get a hold to get out and simply burned away.
So i guess if your barb decided to wade through a field of kobolds he should instantly die to right? I mean, he doesn't know what a d4 is after all... and it is obviously meta-gamey to say " Well I know I have DR 21/- so screw it!"
I'm soryr but it is piss poor GMing to ignore mechanics just because you want to...
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I feel this is warranted: What falling into lava does to a person.
For a moment the there , I thought you were going to reference this. =)
Jiggy Wizards are completely irrelevant. Wizards were not the point of this thread if I was going to talk about Demi-gods then the thread would have been made.
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Jiggy Wizards are completely irrelevant. Wizards were not the point of this thread if I was going to talk about Demi-gods then the thread would have been made.
The thread title asked how absurd barbarians are. I held up another class for comparison, and said "less absurd than this". How is answering the question posed by the thread title "irrelevant"?
The thread title asked how absurd barbarians are. I held up another class for comparison, and said "less absurd than this". How is answering the question posed by the thread title "irrelevant"?
Fair enough.
Got about 1-2 rounds which equates to roughly 6-12 seconds IF the swim checks can be made(and that's a big IF) and the "shore" is 40 feet away or closer then it's still a maybe on the whole living thing
Actually he would still burn for 10d6 for another 1d3 rounds after getting out of it.
I'm soryr but it is piss poor GMing to ignore mechanics just because you want to...
Let me quote you some lines from the CRB:
Game Master (GM): A Game Master is the person who
adjudicates the rules and controls all of the elements of the
story and world that the players explore. A GM’s duty is to
provide a fair and fun game.
And from the SRD:
Even with the vast range of options presented in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, only GMs know what threats their players might face or powers they might come to control. Just as GMs arbitrate the rules within their games, so can they manipulate, repurpose, and wholly invent new rules to improve their games.
As i said before, any metagaming used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
GM: "There is a pool of lava in front of you, there is no way to pass through, you have to go back."
Player: "Actually, if i simply run through, i will take 20d6 points of damage, my barbarian has over 200 hp, he will survive".
Nope. Dead.
Jiggy Wizards are completely irrelevant. Wizards were not the point of this thread if I was going to talk about Demi-gods then the thread would have been made.The thread title asked how absurd barbarians are. I held up another class for comparison, and said "less absurd than this". How is answering the question posed by the thread title "irrelevant"?
Actually the wizards you mentioned are actually in a way LESS absurd. Why? Because they have a sort of "cheat code" to do it. They are using magic and have to cast spells. People expect and understand that the wizard waggles his fingers and does cool stuff. The barbarian on the other hand is doing these things while being more or less "mundane" (totems being the one big exception). The barbarian is surviving these things because yes. Even the paladin falls back on magic in the end (he survives because divine intervention and magic... so stfu x:P). The barb survives because he has 8 pack abs and because screw you :P
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Got about 1-2 rounds which equates to roughly 6-12 seconds IF the swim checks can be made(and that's a big IF) and the "shore" is 40 feet away or closer then it's still a maybe on the whole living thingActually he would still burn for 10d6 for another 1d3 rounds after getting out of it.
I'm soryr but it is piss poor GMing to ignore mechanics just because you want to...Let me quote you some lines from the CRB:
Game Master (GM): A Game Master is the person who
adjudicates the rules and controls all of the elements of the
story and world that the players explore. A GM’s duty is to
provide a fair and fun game.And from the SRD:
Even with the vast range of options presented in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, only GMs know what threats their players might face or powers they might come to control. Just as GMs arbitrate the rules within their games, so can they manipulate, repurpose, and wholly invent new rules to improve their games.As i said before, any metagaming used to abuse the rules should be met with death.
GM: "There is a pool of lava in front of you, there is no way to pass through, you have to go back."
Player: "Actually, if i simply run through, i will take 20d6 points of damage, my barbarian has over 200 hp, he will survive".Nope. Dead.
Except if you plan on changing up the rules, as a GM it is your responsibility to inform the players before hand. If you just decided to say "No, screw the rules, your dead" without telling the player that you are not using RAW, then you are bad DMing... simple as that...
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As i said before, any metagaming used to abuse the rules should be met with death.GM: "There is a pool of lava in front of you, there is no way to pass through, you have to go back."
Player: "Actually, if i simply run through, i will take 20d6 points of damage, my barbarian has over 200 hp, he will survive".Nope. Dead.
Honestly, that sounds more like you trying (poorly) to railroad the players. You know how much HP the barbarian has, and he knows in-character roughly how tough he is. If you really want to railroad them, try harder than that.
I agree though that this sort of thing is, as Kitty Cat put it, "piss poor GMing." It just seems like a weak attempt to control the players' actions. DMing isn't about that.
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And from the SRD:
Just as an aside, be aware that the SRD is a fan site where volunteers sometimes re-format things, materially edit things, or even write their own "rules" from scratch; so citing anything from it that you haven't personally verified also appears verbatim in a published source is equivalent to to, say, quoting a messageboard post from some random schmuck like me and expecting that to settle the matter.
Except if you plan on changing up the rules, as a GM it is your responsibility to inform the players before hand. If you just decided to say "No, screw the rules, your dead" without telling the player that you are not using RAW, then you are bad DMing... simple as that...
So you want to play by the rules? Alright.
You jump on magma, you take 20d6 points of damage and must roll a swim check to move a quarter of your speed.
I will be a nice GM and say that you need only a DC 20 (stormy water), even though i could ask whatever DC i wanted as "swim on magma" isnt covered by the rules. I could ask for a DC 30, due to magma exploding on itself when burning things that fall on it (as seen on the video), or even DC 40, because it hurts so much that you cant even think properly, or i could make the magma burn your eyes immediatelly due to exposure of extreme heat. But no, a DC 20 will be enough.
You roll your swim check, with the proper armor penalty if any, and move 1/3 your speed.
And also roll a reflex save for every piece of gear you are currenly carrying so they dont get completely destroyed by that 20d6 fire damage. As per damaging objects rules.
Also, start holding your breath as soon as you jump in, or take the conditions from extreme heat aswell:
Extreme heat (air temperature over 140° F, fire, boiling water, lava) deals lethal damage. Breathing air in these temperatures deals 1d6 points of fire damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save every 5 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Those wearing heavy clothing or any sort of armor take a –4 penalty on their saves.
Now keep rolling 10d6 per round until you get out of it.
And after you get out, roll another 1d3 to see for how many rounds you will burn.That assuming you know how far the other border is and assuming the magma doesnt move because you jumped on it.
Lava flows are usually associated with nonexplosive eruptions, and can be a permanent fixture of active volcanoes. Most lava flows are quite slow, moving at 15 feet per round. Hotter flows move faster, achieving speeds up to 60 feet per round. Lava in a channel such as a lava tube is especially dangerous, moving as fast as 120 feet per round (a CR 6 hazard).
I agree though that this sort of thing is, as Kitty Cat put it, "piss poor GMing." It just seems like a weak attempt to control the players' actions. DMing isn't about that.
Tell that to every AP writter.
Right, so, lets play Kingmaker guys. - "nope, we will stay at home and be farmers", that always goes well.
There must be aways some railroading.
Just as an aside, be aware that the SRD is a fan site where volunteers sometimes re-format things, materially edit things, or even write their own "rules" from scratch; so citing anything from it that you haven't personally verified also appears verbatim in a published source is equivalent to to, say, quoting a messageboard post from some random schmuck like me and expecting that to settle the matter.
Which is why, before that, i quoted the CRB.
For the record, unlike some people, im not here to teach anyone how to GM. But to expose how i would handle the situation proposed by the OP.
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GM: "There is a pool of lava in front of you, there is no way to pass through, you have to go back."
...and that's where I stop playing with said GM. Only the worst of unimaginative GMs try and dictate a story like that.
What if the barbarian chopped own a large tree with his axe and made a temporary bridge? What if the summoner called forth a large flying eidolon to carry everyone across? What if the wizard dimension door'ed everyone to the other side? What if the rogue used a magic device to cool the lava, making it safe to walk? What if the cavalier's mount was capable of leaping across? What if? What if? What if? There is never not an answer given enough time.
"You HAVE to" is the death of imagination and roleplaying and is the start of "GM story hour."
I'm sorry, but that's not why any of us roleplay.
What if the barbarian chopped own a large tree with his axe and made a temporary bridge? What if the summoner called forth a large flying eidolon to carry everyone across? What if the wizard dimension door'ed everyone to the other side? What if the rogue used a magic device to cool the lava, making it safe to walk?
Nowhere in the situation it was assumed that any of those things were available.
If i wanted to block the path of any of those characters, i would simply say there is a wall over there, or rocks, or a mountain.And they still could use spells to get around that, and if the adventure (and/or the GM), didnt want them going that way, they simply couldnt go that way.
We can play this ping-pong of "what if" all day and still get nowhere.
"You HAVE to" is the death of imagination and roleplaying and is the start of "GM story hour."
If you want to play without a GM i suggest another game, D&D and pathfinder strongly assume that there is a GM ruling things around, be it controlling monsters and npcs or simply telling the players "no, you cant do that".
Just because you want, doesnt mean you can.
The issue here is that the characters can, even though you don't want them to. The fact that you stomp on that ability to do something is a sign of an excessively controlling DM. If the players don't want to follow the plot of your adventure, that's on you, not them. Try being more interesting, or discussing with the group that you don't have plans for the direction they want to go and figuring out a reasonable solution from there.
Just saying "no" is a huge red flag. The DM may be the one running the world and NPCs, but he is very much not the one in charge. D&D is a group game, and the DM is part of that group, not above it.
@Back to the topic
To all rule laywers out there:
If there is no rule saying that you can swim on lava, then you cant.
The swim rules are clear that you are trying to swim on water, not acid, not magma, but water.
Regardless of that, to be able to swim on any liquid, your body has to be more dense than said liquid, and nearly any humanoid trying to swim on magma is less dense than magma, thus they couldnt swim, they would float.
You would need to use something really heavy to put you under the surface. How heavy? That depends on the composition of said magma, like i mentioned before, there are magma and lava flows. You could probably swim through lava flow (which is expelled magma, when a volcano erupts), but hardly through magma (which is the magma that is under the surface, at the bottom of volcanos).
If you are trying to swim on lava, i would apply the scenario on my previous post, keeping in mind that lava flows are constanly moving.
But if you are trying to swim on magma, you wouldnt be dense enough to be able to swim and would just float around, dying in a few rounds if you dont have immunity to fire.
For reference, read this if you dont know the difference between lava and magma.
The issue here is that the characters can,
Correction, they can jump on magma, not swim through magma.
And unless someone shows me rules for swimming on magma, you cant. But i will apologize and take back my ruling if proven wrong.
I will acknowledge that there are no rules for swimming through magma or lava that I can find (other than references to some monsters who live in lava).
My statement regarding characters being able to do things was in response to your assertion that even if the characters had a way around an obstacle, you would fiat block it if you didn't want them going that way.