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I would agree the ranger is a cool class, but I wouldn't say it's automatically better than the fighter.
I see some areas of the class I believe aren't as great as some make it out to seem. The class is a bit MAD depending on the build you are going for. You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
If you are a two-weapon ranger, you will want three good physical scores, and of course needing Wis for spells. I would say the class should stay away from a dump stat.
I've heard the excuse that ranger's can heal and while that is true, he is limited to a certain number per day. In our last game, the ranger was burning up spells and actions trying to heal his animal companion. I've seen them become a bit of a liability and can eat into gold buying items for it.
Favoured Enemy is nice but it requires specific creatures to take effect, and while we have the spell "Instant Enemy", that only effects one creature.
Ranger's have a nice set of skills and skill points, but if you have a bard, rogue, or wizard in the party I would say let them handle the skills part. Sure they are better than a fighter's, but when there is another class in the group who has higher ranks, then that person usually goes.
Being able to cast spells is great, but they do eat up actions.
Overall I do like the class, but I don't think it's as powerful, overall, as some make it out to be. It's one of those classes that shine during the right circumstances.
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If you are a two-weapon ranger, you will want three good physical scores, and of course needing Wis for spells. I would say the class should stay away from a dump stat.
All of the martials should have some in con/dex/str really, unless you have a way to ignore strength entirely such as a finesse/agile type of build. Rangers have this nifty thing where they ignore prereqs with their bonus feats, so if they go TWF style they can pick up the TWF feats without needing to have a high dex, and they can benefit from a higher strength score if they want. That's more than fighter/paladin/barbarian get. Having a higher wisdom isn't bad either, especially since it boost their only weak save and boost survival skills and happens to be the one mental stat you never really want to dump. They still have int/cha if they want to dump.
I've heard the excuse that ranger's can heal and while that is true, he is limited to a certain number per day.
I don't think anyones going to say the ranger has unlimited healing, they might say he gets healing as a spell at all, which he can use to heal instead of taking resources. As opposed to a barbarian or fighter, he can't really heal themselves without magic items(well barbarian can, but that rage power is pretty meh, imo).
Ranger's have a nice set of skills and skill points, but if you have a bard, rogue, or wizard in the party I would say let them handle the skills part. Sure they are better than a fighter's, but when there is another class in the group who has higher ranks, then that person usually goes.
Its good to have skills at all, helps you participate. I don't think "well another class can do it" is at all a reason to say its bad to have the option to begin with. Certainly helps more than a fighter or paladins skill set. They also happen to do perception well, which is one of those skills you never want to dump, imo. Shouldn't bank on other people filling a job for you.
Favoured Enemy is nice but it requires specific creatures to take effect, and while we have the spell "Instant Enemy", that only effects one creature.
Edit: Favored Enemy isn't too bad, it comes online starting at level one and instant enemy really helps. Its actually a complaint that it is pretty selective though. It also gives a much higher bonus that weapon training or rage will get though, since it can give the ranger a bonus as high as +14/+14 against a foe, which is pretty ludicrous imo. How many times do you really need that? Of course its not his only feature either, since he has hunters bond, spell casting, and is still a full BAB class that can skip some feat prereqs and gets 5 bonus feats.
You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal.
Animal companions for rangers don't come in several brands including tame and wild, they come in animal companion. The exception to the rule is a monstrous mount.
You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
The DC for handle animal is set. So you only need a few points in it really. Its really not that hard to get a high enough static bonus that you don't care for charisma anymore, and as you level you have to worry less and less about it. You get +4 circumstance(stacking) from link, +3 from in class, and you have four levels and plenty of skill points to sink other points in and grab other miscellaneous bonuses. Even with a 7, you could have +9 from class features alone.
Overall I do like the class, but I don't think it's as powerful, overall, as some make it out to be.
Well that's sort of vague. Don't know who these 'some' people are, is it really important to mention them?
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I was gonna post a whole long thing, but MrSin pretty much said everything I would've.
I'll expand a little on the stat thing, though. Rangers need, if anything, slightly less in the physical stats than other martial characters since they can ignore prerequisites (as MrSin notes) but also, for a 4 level caster, a base Wisdom 12 is probably sufficient, with a 14 as high as they'd ever need. Heck, even with a 12, they can get to 18 with an item, and that's a bonus spell at every level they get.
And when's the last time you've seen an optimal martial build with Wis less than 12?
I think the only issue with the ranger is that it needs to have assistance from the gm in picking its favored enemies and terrain. If they dont come up fairly frequently in the campaign, the class is very lackluster. If they do, its pretty solid. Its not my preference, I always prefer generally useful over specific and more powerful. But thats just me. If you are ok having your moment once a session or every other session when you take on your favored enemy, its just fine. Otherwise I think the inquisitor makes a better tracker/hunter then the ranger. The upcoming hunter in the ACG also looks interesting
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No Animal Companion, no Favored Enemy, no Favored Terrain. Two of these three are the bits I really dislike about the Ranger. And it's not the AC :PThe upcoming hunter in the ACG also looks interestingOr the Slayer. Slayer looks like great fun for a lot of Ranger players who don't want to deal with the Animal Companion.
True enough. I was just contrasting it with the Hunter, there.
And you can grab Favored Terrain on a Slayer if you want to. :)
Ranger is very solid.
While a dedicated fighter could ultimately deal out more damage than a ranger (against non-FEs), thats about the only thing a fighter can do. He doesn't get anything interesting and is reliant on everyone else to help him along.
While the ranger's bonuses can be circumstantial, if you have a good DM you should probably be getting those bonuses at least a third of the time, if not more frequent.
Being able to use a wand of CLW on his own makes the ranger able to handle his own healing needs most of the time. He can head off on his own and successfully scout around. His animal companion adds action economy and power.
If we turn your thesis around, about the only thing the fighter can do over the ranger is have a better dpr. And even then, it might only be marginally better. (I haven't seen a direct comparison at relevant levels.)
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I dont worry about wis at all. You can get an item to boost your score to cast spells so thats not as big a weakness as it may seem.
For healing as a ranger I wouldnt rely on my spells anyway and would just get wands to supplement. Though our style tends to be fast and furious so in combat healing doesnt happen as often as it does for the average group it seems. Healing is a small bonus not a class defining feature for the ranger.
Favored enemy is tricky. In my group we tend to work together to ensure the ranger selects something that will be useful to the campaign so this class feature has some teeth. Do recongize it can be an issue for some folks though.
On the skills front, the game is a little wonky in that dept. Some classes are packed and others are starved. We like to build characters that seem like actual people and not a desginated unit of an adventuring team. So the "forget skills other guys have them and more" isnt really the knock on Ranger you may think it is. Also, its never a bad thing for the group to diversify skills for maximum coverage while adventuring if you must think of the party as a collective.
Mr. sin sums up handle animal nicely. HA is not something you need in spades. Can vary depending on GM I suppose but on average its not something you need to invest heavily. The rangers good skill alottment allows them to invest in it without eating all their skill points up too.
When comparing the fighter and ranger I think of options and flavor. The fighter lacks skill points and other than gaining more skills has little need for int. Other than physical stats the fighter has little reason to spread around his points. Sure some feat trees will require an int of 13 but thats easy to pull off. The other element is the fighters thing is feats. Thats great for building but what does the fighter have in his cool bag o' tricks that nobody else has? Zip.
The real leg up the ranger has is the ability to spread around their skills and abilities. You can argue they are MAD but they can actually pull it off in lower Pt buys unlike several other classes. To me the ranger is one of the best desgined classes in the game because of that fact. If designing my own heartbreaker i'd use the Ranger as my template for class design.
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I'm not convinced the healing part is that much of a benefit. Anyone can get UMD and use a wand, but trying this in melee is not a good idea because you draw AoO's and drawing a wand and using it takes up two actions that draw AoO's.
Of course you don't heal in combat, especially not using a wand. At least not unless a character is in incredibly dire straights.
But when you talk about UMD, I have to call b!@&!@~@ right there. A ranger can use a wand of CLW at level one, as soon as it can be afforded. Usually about 5 minutes into the adventure ;)
The fighter, with what is likely a poor charisma and his maybe 2 skills per level is now dedicating one of his few skill points to UMD? It a DC 20 to activate the wand. You cannot take 10, and it's not a class skill. You're either investing feats and magical items to pad your UMD to use a wand of CLW, or you're going to be waiting until faily high levels to have a decent chance of actually suceeding in using UMD.
Healing isn't a huge boon for the ranger, but it is icing on the cake that he gets for free.
I find the fighter slightly more MAD. You need STR, DEX, CON, INT, and WIS as fighter. In order DEX,STR,CON,WIS,INT. I go Dex highest because of armor training and the fact that I get feats and weapon training to boost damage. I'll use my level stat increase to boost STR. You want Con but Wis could be higher as you need that to avoid being controlled. You want INT for skill points for those non combat situations. CHR if you really want it only helps you with skills and you can circlet of persuasion for +3 to CHR based skill check for cheap.
For a Ranger I go higher STR and decent CON and keep Dex at 13(unless I go ranged) for dodge and put my Wisdom at 13 boosted to 14 at higher level when I can cast
I'm not convinced the healing part is that much of a benefit. Anyone can get UMD and use a wand, but trying this in melee is not a good idea because you draw AoO's and drawing a wand and using it takes up two actions that draw AoO's.Of course you don't heal in combat, especially not using a wand. At least not unless a character is in incredibly dire straights.
But when you talk about UMD, I have to call b%$!$%*$ right there. A ranger can use a wand of CLW at level one, as soon as it can be afforded. Usually about 5 minutes into the adventure ;)
The fighter, with what is likely a poor charisma and his maybe 2 skills per level is now dedicating one of his few skill points to UMD? It a DC 20 to activate the wand. You cannot take 10, and it's not a class skill. You're either investing feats and magical items to pad your UMD to use a wand of CLW, or you're going to be waiting until faily high levels to have a decent chance of actually suceeding in using UMD.
Healing isn't a huge boon for the ranger, but it is icing on the cake that he gets for free.
While a Ranger definitely has the advantage there, there is nothing to stop a Fighter from buying a wand of CLW and then letting the Bard/Cleric/Ranger/Oracle/Druid from using on him between fights.
Now the ability to use wands with other Divine spells at the beginning of combat is a legitimate advantage of the Ranger over a Fighter, and one that the Fighter can only overcome at higher levels by dumping a bunch of his very limited skill points into UMD. Fighter can lessen this investment by taking the Dangerously Curious trait and / or Skill Focus: UMD, but these have their own opportunity costs.
Also, agree about Fighter being more MAD than Ranger.
How are you affording a 750gp wand 5 minutes into an adventure?
Clearly I was being hyperbolic, but most precounstructed adventures provide easy and early access to a wand of CLW, in the form of loot. Also, if you take the rich parents trait you can start with it from the beginning.
there is nothing to stop a Fighter from buying a wand of CLW and then letting the Bard/Cleric/Ranger/Oracle/Druid from using on him between fights.Of course not, but "making someone else heal you" is not exactly a fighter class feature and the OP posited this as Fighter vs Ranger.
Of course. And I pointed out where a Ranger has a proper advantage in terms of wands -- being able to cast in combat before engaging.
I was just pointing out that both Fighter and Ranger can buy a wand for 750 gp and get healed in between battles. It's pretty much a wash, since I've never seen a party where someone wouldn't use a wand of CLW on you if you needed and had one available, no matter what class you are.
Very true. If you party is likely to have it come up that everyone who can use a wand of CLW is KOed, this is an advantage for the Ranger.
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I could build an Elven Curveblade wielding fighter in Mithral full plate with power attack and weapon finesse that still posts good numbers for damage, would have a good to hit with a bow, could choose to TWF, or go sword and board with a scimitar.
Is that actually a good idea though? To try and do all of those things at once?
Except of course that the Ranger doesn't need someone else to do the casting, so even if the party has to drag the cleric's unconscious (or dead) body out of the combat zone, the Ranger can still use said CLW wands.
I should probably add in that regardless of how useful it is, its still something the ranger can do in the situations it would be useful that the fighter can't. Makes it sort of silly to argue how useful it is to have spells and CLW on your list when its still something the other side can't. There really isn't much chat about what the fighter can do the ranger can't. At best weapon training is probably more consistent and he's going to be able to use those builds that for some reason take 21 feats instead of 16 and suffer in other areas for it, being that the chassis itself lacks skills and 2 good saves, Animal Companion, and all those other goodies.
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Of course. And I pointed out where a Ranger has a proper advantage in terms of wands -- being able to cast in combat before engaging.
I was just pointing out that both Fighter and Ranger can buy a wand for 750 gp and get healed in between battles. It's pretty much a wash, since I've never seen a party where someone wouldn't use a wand of CLW on you if you needed and had one available, no matter what class you are.
I've been in several where the party couldn't use the wand. PFS, the land of "everybody sits at the table with absolutely no coordination of what they'll be playing". All of a sudden "can reliably use a wand of CLW" is a big deal in the party consisting of a barbarian, fighter, ranger, sorcerer, and magus.
How are you affording a 750gp wand 5 minutes into an adventure?
Your average CR 1 encounter for a group of 4 PCs, assuming you fight enemies with standard wealth (and nothing with extra wealth like NPC classed enemies or no wealth like animals), is worth 260 gp. Three encounters is worth 780 gp, which the party should be pooling to get a wand of CLW as soon as possible.
To put that in perspective, it takes 20 CR = APL encounters to level up. You can afford a wand 15% of the way towards 2nd level.
yeah, I think the problem with rangers to me anyway is the fact that favored enemies and terrain may suddenly become useless(due to lack of specific enemies). however, you can retrain them as per norm...
oh, and don't get me started on the option instead of AC, WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MERRY BAND OF MEN? it arguably doesn't work with instant enemy either.
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yeah, I think the problem with rangers to me anyway is the fact that favored enemies and terrain may suddenly become useless(due to lack of specific enemies). however, you can retrain them as per norm...
oh, and don't get me started on the option instead of AC, WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MERRY BAND OF MEN? it arguably doesn't work with instant enemy either.
All instances of Hunter's Bond benefit from Hunter's Howl and Instant Enemy. Hunter's Bond shares bonuses, not class features. If the Ranger is receiving FE or FT bonuses, they're shared by Hunter's Bond. I've actually seen Rangers perform as amazing party leaders, buffing allies and manipulating terrain while standing as a strong front-line combatant and solid damage dealer himself. Basically he can tame kingdoms, rouse the hearts of men, and control the flow of battle, better than any Fighter I've ever seen.
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The argument was it takes 5 minutes. Why are you listing the events of an entire gaming session.How are you affording a 750gp wand 5 minutes into an adventure?Your average CR 1 encounter for a group of 4 PCs, assuming you fight enemies with standard wealth (and nothing with extra wealth like NPC classed enemies or no wealth like animals), is worth 260 gp. Three encounters is worth 780 gp, which the party should be pooling to get a wand of CLW as soon as possible.
To put that in perspective, it takes 20 CR = APL encounters to level up. You can afford a wand 15% of the way towards 2nd level.
You mean it takes you more than 5 minutes to run 3 encounters? No wonder you think the Fighter is better than the Ranger. /counter-snark
Claxon pointed out several posts above that as well that a single trait can start you out with more than enough cash to purchase one. While the Fighter can take the same trait, he won't be able to use the wand with any kind of reliability short of pouring all of his resources into UMD and sacrificing and advantage he may have had over the Ranger just to get something the Ranger got stock.
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I could build an Elven Curveblade wielding fighter in Mithral full plate with power attack and weapon finesse that still posts good numbers for damage, would have a good to hit with a bow, could choose to TWF, or go sword and board with a scimitar.Is that actually a good idea though? To try and do all of those things at once?Try all of those things? A Curveblade main, bow for ranged needs, then TWF or sword and board back up? How is this outside the realm of possibility with the vast number of feats a fighter gets?
What level are you wanting to do all that? Even Fighters don't have enough feats to be good at all of those things. Sword and Board alone devours feats, usually demanding every single feat the Fighter gets until 10th level, and then the GTWF feat as well. You've also eaten up all your Weapon Training options, so no in-style versatility there...
And you definitely don't have any feats left for shoring up bad skills or saves.
The Fighter doesn't have a "vast number of feats", he has 5 more feats than a Ranger, and the Ranger gets to jump over feat taxes with his bonus feats so you may not even be getting the full impact of the small lead you have.
Better is subjective. most like the ranger because it does enough damage, and allows them to do other things.
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The fighter gets 6 more feats than a ranger. Regardless of the comparison to a ranger the fighter receives the most feats in the game at 21. This is a vast number of feats as I said.
The Fighter has 5 more feats than the Ranger. This is not vast.
Nor is he the only one with so many feats, as the Zen Archer has the same number of feats. Versatility in his selection of feats is the only advantage the true advantage the Fighter has, and even that is badly hampered by the fact that the Fighter cannot bypass prereqs for his feats and has to burn through every chain in order. Effectively he actually has the same or fewer feats than quite a few other classes.|
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All instances of Hunter's Bond benefit from Hunter's Howl and Instant Enemy. Hunter's Bond shares bonuses, not class features. If the Ranger is receiving FE or FT bonuses, they're shared by Hunter's Bond. I've actually seen Rangers perform as amazing party leaders, buffing allies and manipulating terrain while standing as a strong front-line combatant and solid damage dealer himself. Basically he can tame kingdoms, rouse the hearts of men, and control the flow of battle, better than any Fighter I've ever seen.yeah, I think the problem with rangers to me anyway is the fact that favored enemies and terrain may suddenly become useless(due to lack of specific enemies). however, you can retrain them as per norm...
oh, and don't get me started on the option instead of AC, WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MERRY BAND OF MEN? it arguably doesn't work with instant enemy either.
Actually, you only share half the bonus.
You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
A 4. level Ranger with 7 Cha and no investment beyond the skill ranks auto-succeeds on his check to handle his animal companion.
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I could build an Elven Curveblade wielding fighter in Mithral full plate with power attack and weapon finesse that still posts good numbers for damage, would have a good to hit with a bow, could choose to TWF, or go sword and board with a scimitar.Is that actually a good idea though? To try and do all of those things at once?Try all of those things? A Curveblade main, bow for ranged needs, then TWF or sword and board back up? How is this outside the realm of possibility with the vast number of feats a fighter gets?
What level are you wanting to do all that? Even Fighters don't have enough feats to be good at all of those things. Sword and Board alone devours feats, usually demanding every single feat the Fighter gets until 10th level, and then the GTWF feat as well. You've also eaten up all your Weapon Training options, so no in-style versatility there...
And you definitely don't have any feats left for shoring up bad skills or saves.
The Fighter doesn't have a "vast number of feats", he has 5 more feats than a Ranger, and the Ranger gets to jump over feat taxes with his bonus feats so you may not even be getting the full impact of the small lead you have.
He gets to jump prereqs for specific feats only.
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You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
A 4. level Ranger with 7 Cha and no investment beyond the skill ranks auto-succeeds on his check to handle his animal companion.
So he auto succeeds with only a +3?
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Actually, you only share half the bonus.All instances of Hunter's Bond benefit from Hunter's Howl and Instant Enemy. Hunter's Bond shares bonuses, not class features. If the Ranger is receiving FE or FT bonuses, they're shared by Hunter's Bond. I've actually seen Rangers perform as amazing party leaders, buffing allies and manipulating terrain while standing as a strong front-line combatant and solid damage dealer himself. Basically he can tame kingdoms, rouse the hearts of men, and control the flow of battle, better than any Fighter I've ever seen.yeah, I think the problem with rangers to me anyway is the fact that favored enemies and terrain may suddenly become useless(due to lack of specific enemies). however, you can retrain them as per norm...
oh, and don't get me started on the option instead of AC, WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MERRY BAND OF MEN? it arguably doesn't work with instant enemy either.
Or the whole bonus if it's your animal companion. Since Hunter's Bond encompasses both and I assume most of us here can read, it seemed a superfluous statement. It's still more than the Fighter's sharing with anyone....
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So he auto succeeds with only a +3?You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
A 4. level Ranger with 7 Cha and no investment beyond the skill ranks auto-succeeds on his check to handle his animal companion.
4 skill ranks. +3 for being a class skill. +4 bonus from link. -2 from Charisma. That 4+3+4-2=9. A 1 on the die gives him the DC 10 he needs to meet.
Do you even rules, Bro?
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So he auto succeeds with only a +3?You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
A 4. level Ranger with 7 Cha and no investment beyond the skill ranks auto-succeeds on his check to handle his animal companion.
4 Ranks + 3 Class Skill +4 bonus to using it on your own Animal Companion -2 Cha = +9, and all you'll ever need. It's only +5 for other animals, but why would you care?
EDIT: Ninja'd. Ah, well.
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Or the whole bonus if it's your animal companion. Since Hunter's Bond encompasses both and I assume most of here can read, it seemed a superfluous statement. It's still more than the Fighter's sharing with anyone....Actually, you only share half the bonus.All instances of Hunter's Bond benefit from Hunter's Howl and Instant Enemy. Hunter's Bond shares bonuses, not class features. If the Ranger is receiving FE or FT bonuses, they're shared by Hunter's Bond. I've actually seen Rangers perform as amazing party leaders, buffing allies and manipulating terrain while standing as a strong front-line combatant and solid damage dealer himself. Basically he can tame kingdoms, rouse the hearts of men, and control the flow of battle, better than any Fighter I've ever seen.yeah, I think the problem with rangers to me anyway is the fact that favored enemies and terrain may suddenly become useless(due to lack of specific enemies). however, you can retrain them as per norm...
oh, and don't get me started on the option instead of AC, WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MERRY BAND OF MEN? it arguably doesn't work with instant enemy either.
Just so we are clear. You know that you can only choose one part of Hunter's Bond? You can either grant your allies half your favoured enemy bonus to all allies with in 30ft for a number of rounds equal to your wis mod or you can have an animal companion who shares your favoured enemy and favoured terrain bonus.
You don't get to do both. Granting allies a bonus is nice but it's not that great.
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So he auto succeeds with only a +3?You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
A 4. level Ranger with 7 Cha and no investment beyond the skill ranks auto-succeeds on his check to handle his animal companion.
4 skill ranks. +3 for being a class skill. +4 bonus from link. -2 from Charisma. That 4+3+4-2=9. A 1 on the die gives him the DC 10 he needs to meet.
Do you even rules, Bro?
I was thinking a 7 was minus 4 for some reason. The smart ass comment wasn't necessary bro.
I see some areas of the class I believe aren't as great as some make it out to seem. The class is a bit MAD depending on the build you are going for. You basically want to have something good in five stats if you want an animal companion, especially one that is a wild animal. You will want a bit of Cha when using Handle Animal and such to actually befriend the animal and gain it as a companion.
Handle Animal DCs you'd need for an animal companion range from 10 ("do a trick") to 15-20 ("learn a trick/purpose") to 25 ("do a trick you've never learned before"/"push yourself against instincts & better judgement")
+4 for being a Ranger, +7 for max skill ranks at the level you get the companion. That's +11, allowing the ranger to make a check of 21 by taking 10 (100% handle, 100% train), or a range of 12-31 by die roll (100% handle, 60-85% train, 35% push).That's with CHA of 10.
Also, that's assuming you want to even control your animal companion, whose motivation is to act in your best interest anyway (defend you, alert you to danger, chase down who you're chasing down, etc).
If you are a two-weapon ranger, you will want three good physical scores, and of course needing Wis for spells. I would say the class should stay away from a dump stat.
Wis never needs to be any higher than 14 by 13th level, just to access 4th level spells; Ranger spells are pure gravy, not the mainstay of the class.
Also, as has been stated above, DEX need not be terribly high, since a TWF Ranger can have a DEX of 3 and still qualify for all the feats.I've heard the excuse that ranger's can heal and while that is true, he is limited to a certain number per day. In our last game, the ranger was burning up spells and actions trying to heal his animal companion. I've seen them become a bit of a liability and can eat into gold buying items for it.
Animal companion is expendable; if it dies it can be replaced with 2 days of downtime (24 for ceremony, then rest after so as to be read for adventuring) at no penalty. Actually, when I played a ranger, I kept a few indigenous trained animals with me (make use of that handle animal), such as pack animals, messenger birds and tracking dogs. This also allowed me to (given a day or 2 of prep) swap out what kind of animal would be my companion... dog for dungeons, light horse or falcon for the road, etc. They'd have the tricks they start with, plus the bonus ones from the "template". If I lacked the prep time, no biggie.
Anyhow, this also suggested to me that, while the primary casters are filling downtime with crafting magic items, a Ranger (or Druid) should be befriending and training more animals to augment the party. Since animals are so socially weak, high CHA isn't needed for this.
Favoured Enemy is nice but it requires specific creatures to take effect, and while we have the spell "Instant Enemy", that only effects one creature.
Truth and agreement.
Hence why you should put serious thought into what FE you select.Ranger's have a nice set of skills and skill points, but if you have a bard, rogue, or wizard in the party I would say let them handle the skills part. Sure they are better than a fighter's, but when there is another class in the group who has higher ranks, then that person usually goes.
The ranger is often a better scout (stealth & perception) than the Rogue, simply due to favored terrain and favored enemy, some spell options, and higher level class features like Camouflage.
Handle Animal I've already covered.Climbing, swimming and survival are also the Ranger's niche skills.
Lastly, if there's redundancy, since when is that a problem? It's a selling feature IMO.
Being able to cast spells is great, but they do eat up actions.
what kind of argument is that?
I think you're trying too hard to argue some point.
Look, if someone was telling you the Ranger is 2 steps away from being god, they're being dumb. But the Ranger is a good class. It's got serious strengths, very few weaknesses, is well rounded, and always has something to offer the group in terms of contributing to the adventure.
IMO