I'm starting a game with my friends this Thursday and two of them are starting with vertu low rolled charisma, the lowest being 5. If it was intelligence, they would be 3 points away from not being able to speak!
So I feel like prices will be higher for them off course and randomly fights will stay because they looked at someone wrong but I'm wondering if any of you have good ideas how to punish these people.
Thank you
So, they rolled these stats, random fights will get started to punish these friends of yours, this is a thing that's spawned multiple huge arguments on the subforums, oh, and you have six posts, all from this one thread.
The hard thing I find in this whole thing is that most characters, especially those in MAD classes, really need to get their points from somewhere. Take an average human fighter as an example. They will probably want an 18 in strength, so that's 16+2 for being human. There's ten points. They want to be able to take some hits, so they take a 14 in constitution. There's 15 points. Then they also need armor class, since they are the front line, and would like some CMD too, so a fourteen in dexterity. There's 20 points. Then you are left with the three mental stats, one of which is determining their will save, which is vital. So the fighter is left asking: should I take out of intelligence, which affects all of my skill growth, or out of charisma, which affects only social skills. Oh, and with one feat (intimidating prowess) I become very good at one social skill, so I've still got something.
As a fighter the party has certain expectations from him in combat; namely, dealing damage, not dying, and not being mind controlled. Charisma just makes the most sense to drop from a combat perspective (i.e. what a FIGHTer is supposed to do).
I use a fighter as my example, though it applies to others too, but I've rambled long enough haha
This is up to the GM to decide - if 16 is considered a 'high' ability score due to your point buy or calibration of your campaign, you just got back 5 points to each character - perhaps making it so that all non-CHA characters don't have to be uncharismatic trolls. If you encourage everyone to min/max and rollplay (not roleplay), it'll happen no matter what.
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Well punish is the wrong word to use but you do need to point out that the character should be role-played as some one with a weak social presence. Just ask that the player Role-play appropriately.
NPC wise, people are likely to underestimate him, doubt that he can do the job. They will look at the rest of the group and maybe not even realize he was one of them, or assume he's like the porter or something. They might not even count him as one of the people they need to reward unless it's pointed out to them Even if he has a lot of ranks in Diplomacy most NPCs are likely to ignore him until he starts talking.
Well punish is the wrong word to use but you do need to point out that the character
Although some may find it reassuring that there's a one true way to role play, others may, just perhaps mind you, find it highly offensive and displaying ignorance of the mechanics of the system that are geared for roleplaying. Skills, such as bluff and diplomacy, don't require a certain charisma score to add ranks in. If it's important to the character, they can raise their effectiveness and thus, gasp, play their guys the way they like. Or rather, they can be effective and play how they want.
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Low charisma doesn't mean you can't be the face.
My Duergar Inquisitor had a 3 charisma, and the best Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate of the party.
Now, the Bard in the group was a hearty 15 Charisma, and quite talkative.
My PC basically was a stone-faced, silent, emotionless brick, but when something important needed to be said, she spoke, and dang it, people listened.
... A more accurate way to say it is how can I use this low charisma in funny or creative ways to help grow their bond with their character.
Ok, that's better.
..
... So I feel like prices will be higher for them off course and randomly fights will stay because they looked at someone wrong but I'm wondering if any of you have good ideas how to ...
If some PC has a 16 cha and no ranks in diplomacy, would you give them better prices or people randomly making friends with them?
If yes, then goose/gander and all that.If no, then probably shouldn't.
If you have a reasonable amount (yes, I know that is entirely subjective) of social interaction in your game, the penalties will take care of themselves.
Ex: They are trying to get better pay for the next mission. They fail the diplomacy check by more than 5 and not only do they not get the better pay, they might get less pay or maybe the guy changes his mind and decides not to hire them at all.
I get what you're asking...What's some funny things that can happen in-game that can be fun to role-play?
It depends on how you view charisma. If you view it as just a measure of how well others "like" the character, then things like:
Being invited to a noble's dinner party, but the guards won't let you in, and the noble gets offended that you didn't show.
The character flirts with the barmaid and she calls the guard, thinking he's attacking her.
The character gives a beggar some coin, only to have it returned with a snide comment about the character needing it more.
When rescuing a woman from BBEG, she pauses noticably before agreeing to be rescued by the pc.
It could also give some advantages for fun as well:
When confronting some Orcs, the orcs don't fight right away because they like the character.
Dire rats randomly walk up to be pet by the pc.
Stray dogs follow the pc in town, providing an early warning system for attackers.
You could also have the players create a specific trait that this CHA roll is expressed int, ie: always murmuring....never making eye contact
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Well punish is the wrong word to use but you do need to point out that the character should be role-played as some one with a weak social presence.Although some may find it reassuring that there's a one true way to role play, others may, just perhaps mind you, find it highly offensive and displaying ignorance of the mechanics of the system that are geared for roleplaying. Skills, such as bluff and diplomacy, don't require a certain charisma score to add ranks in. If it's important to the character, they can raise their effectiveness and thus, gasp, play their guys the way they like. Or rather, they can be effective and play how they want.
I think though that since Charisma means multiple things (i.e. physical appearance, force of personality, personal magnetism, leadership ability, etc.) it's incumbent on a player who has a character with a low Charisma specifies in what specific ways that their character is deficient in these categories, and plays that way, however.
Like if you're a Charisma 7 character, go right ahead and say "he's freakishly ugly" or "she's normal looking, but she's exceptionally shy and socially awkward", or "he sort of comes across as fundamentally untrustworthy" or whatever. Let the GM know what your low charisma means in the context of your character concept, since this might be relevant to how NPCs react to them.
If you're playing a low Charisma character and you're just roleplaying them like a normal, average person, then you're not going about it the right way. If you want to play a fairly average person, CHA 10 is average, but CHA 7 is well below average. I think a GM is justified in leaning on any CHA<10 character to specify in which aspects of Charisma they are deficient and ask them to RP accordingly.
I'm starting a game with my friends this Thursday and two of them are starting with vertu low rolled charisma, the lowest being 5. If it was intelligence, they would be 3 points away from not being able to speak!
So I feel like prices will be higher for them off course and randomly fights will stay because they looked at someone wrong but I'm wondering if any of you have good ideas how to punish these people.
Thank you
How I did this in years past, was set it up that there are many adventures and lots of combat to be had, but that isn't everything. There are also enemies and factions you don't want to fight and sometimes you just want to get through without fighting everyone. There is where charisma skills and low cha stats really start to matter.
With the low cha, social situations could really not go their way, and often lead to combat situations regardless of intent. Hey, at least they will get xp if they survive!
A houserule that I use is to base Will saves off of Charisma. The way I explain it, is that I define Wisdom as awareness and intuition;I define Charisma as presence and conviction of self. Will saves are made when who you are (conviction of self) comes under attack - Charm Person and the like.
YMMV.
Well punish is the wrong word to use but you do need to point out that the character should be role-played as some one with a weak social presence.Although some may find it reassuring that there's a one true way to role play, others may, just perhaps mind you, find it highly offensive and displaying ignorance of the mechanics of the system that are geared for roleplaying. Skills, such as bluff and diplomacy, don't require a certain charisma score to add ranks in. If it's important to the character, they can raise their effectiveness and thus, gasp, play their guys the way they like. Or rather, they can be effective and play how they want.I think though that since Charisma means multiple things (i.e. physical appearance, force of personality, personal magnetism, leadership ability, etc.) it's incumbent on a player who has a character with a low Charisma specifies in what specific ways that their character is deficient in these categories, and plays that way, however.
Like if you're a Charisma 7 character, go right ahead and say "he's freakishly ugly" or "she's normal looking, but she's exceptionally shy and socially awkward", or "he sort of comes across as fundamentally untrustworthy" or whatever. Let the GM know what your low charisma means in the context of your character concept, since this might be relevant to how NPCs react to them.
If you're playing a low Charisma character and you're just roleplaying them like a normal, average person, then you're not going about it the right way. If you want to play a fairly average person, CHA 10 is average, but CHA 7 is well below average. I think a GM is justified in leaning on any CHA<10 character to specify in which aspects of Charisma they are deficient and ask them to RP accordingly.
"comes across as fundamentally untrustworthy"
I like that. Yeah, players should provide feedback what the stats mean for their character so they are keeping good communication with the dm and what the character means for the world.
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Low charisma doesn't mean you can't be the face.
My Duergar Inquisitor had a 3 charisma, and the best Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate of the party.
Greetings Pathfinders, I too am a character with a decidely low Charisma [a 5], and yet my social skills are quite respectable. Of course, we Paladins of Asmodeus have made deals with the Devil in order to accomplish this, and yet I am a completely legal Pathfinder Society character.
My complete stats can be found in my profile if desired.
I am told that I can be a bit of an "imperious jerk" and yet, I am quite persuasive overall.
Good day to you all, and if any of you need anything of a Paladin of the Prince of Darkness, please do not hesitate to ask.
Oh, and I will be seeking minions, errr, adventuring companions at GenCon this year for a number of slots.
Yeah cha dump chars with fantastic diplomacy are good fun.
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Disclaimer: Late to the party, haven't read the whole thread, comments might be redundant, etc.
two of them are starting with vertu low rolled charisma, the lowest being 5.
Wondering how to treat that 5 CHA? I personally believe the best place to start with any conundrum is looking at facts! :D
Let's start with this:
Basic NPCs: The ability scores for a basic NPC are: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.
Heroic NPCs: The ability scores for a heroic NPC are: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.
The game world assumes that most of the people populating the game world have "basic NPC" stats (that's for everyone with NPC-class levels, from commoner to aristocrat), while the exceptional ones (those with PC-class levels) have the "heroic NPC" stats.
So this defines "normal" in Pathfinder.
Now, take a look at those stats. See how both arrays include an 8? That means it's normal for any given person—including Experts, Adepts, Aristocrats, Warriors, and even NPC Fighters, Wizards, Rogues, etc—to have an 8 somewhere.
And that's pre-racial.
Now since we're talking about CHA, consider dwarves. Dwarves have a built-in –2 to CHA.
That means that while pre-racial stats for an NPC can range from 13 (or 15, if heroic) down to 8, for a dwarf's CHA that range becomes 11 (or 13, if heroic) down to 6.
Yes, it is a fact that the game considers 6 CHA to be within the range of "normal" for the entire population of dwarves.
To put it another way: if scores are distributed randomly among the different abilities, then fully one-sixth of the entire dwarven population has 6 CHA.
Now, back to the PCs at hand. You say the lowest CHA is 5. That is only 1 point—the absolute smallest measurable difference—lower than what a dwarf would consider reasonably normal. The other PC who apparently has more than 5 CHA is in fact within the normal range for dwarves.
That means that for the 6+ CHA player, whatever effects you enforce for his CHA score, it would be reasonable to assume that many dwarves are treated the same way around the world.
The 5 CHA player should be exactly one step beyond that.
On a related note (because facts), I'm curious: do people respond to the 16 CHA bard/sorcerer as though he were coated in snot from head to toe?
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Well punish is the wrong word to use but you do need to point out that the character should be role-played as some one with a weak social presence.Although some may find it reassuring that there's a one true way to role play, others may, just perhaps mind you, find it highly offensive and displaying ignorance of the mechanics of the system that are geared for roleplaying. Skills, such as bluff and diplomacy, don't require a certain charisma score to add ranks in. If it's important to the character, they can raise their effectiveness and thus, gasp, play their guys the way they like. Or rather, they can be effective and play how they want.I think though that since Charisma means multiple things (i.e. physical appearance, force of personality, personal magnetism, leadership ability, etc.) it's incumbent on a player who has a character with a low Charisma specifies in what specific ways that their character is deficient in these categories, and plays that way, however.
Like if you're a Charisma 7 character, go right ahead and say "he's freakishly ugly" or "she's normal looking, but she's exceptionally shy and socially awkward", or "he sort of comes across as fundamentally untrustworthy" or whatever. Let the GM know what your low charisma means in the context of your character concept, since this might be relevant to how NPCs react to them.
If you're playing a low Charisma character and you're just roleplaying them like a normal, average person, then you're not going about it the right way. If you want to play a fairly average person, CHA 10 is average, but CHA 7 is well below average. I think a GM is justified in leaning on any CHA<10 character to specify in which aspects of Charisma they are deficient and ask them to RP accordingly.
You can roleplay a character however you like. Ability scores affect the outcome of such actions, not your ability to attempt them. It's the player's purview to decide how to roleplay the character. If the player wants to justify that Charisma score in the manner you mention, that's great, but it is not a requirement and the player is not Doing It Wrong™.
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Yeah cha dump chars with fantastic diplomacy are good fun.
Indeed.
I played her as seemingly emotionless, and monotone, lacking a strong personal identity.
To play up her profoundly high social skills, I imagined her, as much, like Alia Atreides, using "the voice" on others.
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You can roleplay a character however you like. Ability scores affect the outcome of such actions, not your ability to attempt them. It's the player's purview to decide...
Personally, I believe that not roleplaying your stat-line is like not-roleplaying your alignment. It's a thing that GMs should keep an eye on.
Just make sure the outcomes of successful roles reflect the sort of person who's making them. If a CHA 5 character succeeds on a diplomacy check, the result is more "I don't like him, but he's right about this" than "he's right, I agree." If a CHA 5 character tries to be an inspiring figure, NPCs are probably going to laugh at him, but may go along with what he wants anyway since they're inclined to believe that defending the village against the barbarian hordes is in their best interest. Certain NPCs just won't want to interact with a character that they feel is loathsome or disagreeable so a low CHA character should have to pass some skill checks just to convince NPCs to talk to them.
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I'm starting a game with my friends this Thursday and two of them are starting with vertu low rolled charisma, the lowest being 5. If it was intelligence, they would be 3 points away from not being able to speak!
So I feel like prices will be higher for them off course and randomly fights will stay because they looked at someone wrong but I'm wondering if any of you have good ideas how to punish these people.
Thank you
I know this has probably been said up thread....I am curious, you mentioned your players rolled a 5 and and another close low number.
Why would you want to punish your friends? By random chance they got these numbers... bad luck what ever you want to call it.
Now if it was a point buy for their abilities, and you didn't want them to crash some abilites at the expense of others, as the GM you get to set the parameters....say no stats below 10 except for racial modifiers......
Anyways, if they rolled these numbers how are they at fault? And then why do you want to punish them? Just curious.
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What about if my charactaer has an exceptionally high CHA? Am I expected to somehow roleplay at that level as well? What if I am personally a jerk (which I'm certain some people would agree with)? How can you expect me to suddenly roleplay an 18 CHA character? Isn't that what the dice do, to an extent?
Do you similarly require exceptionally high/low INT or WIS characters to roleplay it as such. I don't know too many INT 3 or 20 persons myself, so it would seem hard for me to expect such.
Do you require a 5 DEX character to stumble regularly just walking down the street? Or is it enough that his AC and Reflex saves are tanked by the negative 3 modifier?
There isn't a single way to properly roleplay, and it is different from group to group, but "punishing" a character beyond the way the mechanics already do seems a bit heavyhanded, particularly when stats are either a 0 sum game (for point buy), or random (as it is in this case of rolling for stats).
I'm just not an advocate of ever "punishing" characters, or players for that matter. The game, and its mechanics, will take care of that for you.
The old trick of "My character is smarter than I am so she says this in a smarter way" is a good way to go about it, but you still want to see players of high INT characters trying to be smart, high WIS characters trying to be profound, high CHA characters trying to be persuasive, etc. You shouldn't only reflect your stat sheet in terms of your modifiers and rolls, IMO.
I never said punishing a character was the right way to go, I just think that a low charisma meaning "you are not especially likeable" is a thing that should be reflected in how NPCs respond to you. It's less a punishment and more "the world being responsive to the decisions that the player has made in creating their character." If you're an ugly as sin barbarian, a lady of the nobility may not want to be anywhere near you, whereas she may happily talk to the dashing swashbuckler who is several social classes below her, just because he is charming. Just like a high CHA should open some doors, I think a low one should close some doors. You can reopen those doors with the judicious application of social skills, of course, but I might ask a low CHA character to make some diplomacy rolls *just to convince the NPC to listen to what they have to say* that I wouldn't ask from a high CHA character.
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Triplets exampleUnless you were calling for Diplomacy rolls in this instance (in which case the varied responses would be justified- not by the Charisma but by the Diplomacy Modifier which is derived from Charism) I would get right up and walk out of this campaign.
Given that he mentioned their equal ranks in Diplomacy, I think checks were implied.
Haha. I love the suggestions! I probably won't kill unless they do it to themselves . I say punish but that's probably because I'm in the middle of reading the dresden files. Jim Butcher just punishes dresden. A more accurate way to say it is how can I use this low charisma in funny or creative ways to help grow their bond with their character.
If you want something funny, add something where they save a nobleman daughter who intends to thank them. If they are charismatic enough. Fun little asides like that are always entertaining.
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Just make sure the outcomes of successful roles reflect the sort of person who's making them.The sort of person making them has absolutely NOTHING to do with that person's stats.
By "person making them" I mean "the character, not the player." The character sheet has a lot to do with who the character is.
If a CHA 5 character tries to be an inspiring figure, NPCs are probably going to laugh at himUnless he's an inspiring figure. Check the roll and results before you badmouth him.
A CHA 5 character is not an inspiring figure. That much is indicated by his or her charisma. The CHA 5 character may say some inspiring things, and that is what the roll tells you. There's a difference between simply "being inspiring just by watching someone" and "being inspired by hearing what someone has to say."
Certain NPCs just won't want to interact with a character that they feel is loathsome or disagreeableAgain this has jackall to do with stats
Your stats, like your race, class, or religion are perfectly valid reasons for an NPC to dislike you. Anything that can be known to an NPC is potentially a valid reason for the NPC to like or dislike that character.
so a low CHA character should have to pass some skill checks just to convince NPCs to talk to them.No
I disagree. If an NPC dislikes you, for whatever reason, you may have to pass some skill checks in order to get that NPC to even deal with you. If an NPC is an inveterate racist, he or she might require a skill check in order to be convinced to deal with a half-orc character. If an NPC is vain or worldly he or she may require a skill check in order to be convinced to deal with an ugly character.
I see two things often suggested in this thread that should be avoided:
1) Treating a character whose charisma you consider too low as some sort of freak, and
2) Providing bonuses or benefits for any low ability score.
All that a low charisma has to mean in Pathfinder is that the character has less than average natural talent for all of the things that charisma measures. The game mechanics should take care of that.
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Your stats, like your race, class, or religion are perfectly valid reasons for an NPC to dislike you. Anything that can be known to an NPC is potentially a valid reason for the NPC to like or dislike that character.You let characters see each other's stats?
I assume that a perceptive NPC can glean things about a character's stat line by observing them, yes. Once you open your mouth, it's a lot harder to hide that low INT. If you're moving effortlessly in heavy armor, it's harder to hide that high strength. If you are especially attractive, people will notice.
Your charisma should be a lot harder to hide from NPCs who are observing you than any other stat. Unless you are actively trying to disguise yourself, people should pick up things like "your force of personality" or "your physical appearance" if they are perceptive.
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Until a check is rolled, NOBODY knows how charismatic you are, and depending on the roll they may believe you are more or less charismatic than you actually are.
Rolling a 15 with a cha of 7 produces the EXACT SAME RESULT as rolling a 10 with a cha of 14
I fundamentally disagree with you on this. Things like "how attractive you are", "how physically imposing you are", "how well-spoken you are", "how tough you look" should be estimable by NPCs (and PCs) without any rolls taking place, unless someone is deliberately trying to hide something.
Some of this information I will just volunteer to PCs "His facial scarring is not of the aesthetically appealing variety" or "she moves effortlessly in what appears to be heavy plate armor" or "he speaks quickly without pausing, with great precision and economy of word choice", etc. and some I will just tell them if they ask (e.g. "yeah he looks like more than one person has tried to kill him, and come up short.")
In my games, all characters (PCs and NPCs) wear a rough approximation of their stat lines on their person somehow.
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I fundamentally disagree with you as well. Things like "how attractive you are", "how physically imposing you are", "how well-spoken you are", "how tough you look" should be a part of the character concept, and ARE estimable by NPC's and PC's alike, but have absolutely nothing to do with the stats. The stats are a game mechanic, the character is a fictional person living within a fictional world who is their own entity apart from the stats.
Now, without the proper stats and/or skills said character can't back up their appearance/mannerisms, but how they look/speak is how they look/speak irrespective of their stats.
This is the heart of disagreement we have. The way I see it your abilities are the sort of person you are, they indicate natural gifts or talents, your inborn potential to be good at stuff. Your skills are things you have learned to do. You can be a naturally shy person (low CHA) who has put a great amount of effort into mastering the art of public speaking (high diplomacy), but your mastery of rhetoric does not change the fact that at your core, you're ill-at-ease in social situations.
Just because you have a high diplomacy skill doesn't mean that someone can't figure out that you're not wholly comfortable in this situation. It's just like how if you are very skilled at fighting (high BAB,say) that doesn't mean that someone can't figure out that you're not especially strong. Likewise if you are strong, and you lift something heavy (but not so heavy it requires a roll) anybody watching you will conclude "that person is strong" unless you are deliberately attempting to obfuscate your true strength.
Your stat line will be in part reflected in all of the things your character does that do not involve rolling for anything, and perceptive characters can figure out stuff about you by watching how you behave.
Instead of punishing anyone, why not give them a reason to bump up that Charisma modifier? Make Charisma matter more in your games.
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To elaborate, a character could be a total douchewaffle and look like scum. He could have ugly half-healed scars all over his body and treat people like fecal matter, but have a very high charisma modifier that manifests itself when he tries to deceive or appeal to someone. They react not to his appearance or personality, but to his 'command.' He has a high charisma.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you could be a beautiful vixen with a sweet countenance and kind and courteous words, who speaks boldly and strongly with conviction and elegance, but nobody takes her seriously despite her natural presence. She has a low cha.
An ugly high CHA character? Fine, he or she makes up for it in other ways, but if I had a player at my table who wanted to play a high CHA who was generally perceived as meek or nebbishy except when he or she was trying to convince people, I would ask for that character to make disguise checks. You can be an ugly jerk with a high Charisma, but you will still come across as a supremely confident ugly jerk because of your high charisma (unless you're actively attempting to hide that.)
If you wanted to have a low CHA who is physically attractive, I would ask in what ways that their low charisma manifests itself in the game. All I ever ask for players is to tell me specifically how they interpret the manner in which their stats manifest so that I can have the world react accordingly.
Gonna have to agree with Kyrt.
It's their character so they should be the one deciding these things. They shouldn't be told "Hey, your character is X, so role play it." It's completely arbitrary like telling a player
"That one page back story you made is good and all, but I don't think the wife you put in your back story should exist, just because I don't like it."
or
"Man your character is just too strong, maybe you should have less str?"
or
"You spot what seems to be a pressure plate on the ground"
"How big is it?"
"5 by 5"
"Ok I jump over it"
"No you don't, someone has to disarm it"
"Why? I can just jump past it"
"because I said so"
or my favorite
"Hey, that 18 int is too much, you're not 18 int in real life, so how can you role play an 18 int character"
Do those examples seem silly? Well trying to tell a play that they are wrong about the character they created is the same thing.
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But what about a High Cha character who IS meek and nebbishly, but who can connect to people's hearts because (s)he is just like them, a nobody who is doing the best they can.
That, IMO, is not a high charisma character. That's a low charisma character, interpreted through a specific application of a skill or trait. A high charisma character is able to connect to people's hearts and/or minds even if those people aren't nobody's. A high CHA character can persuade/inspire the rich, famous, notable, etc.
Or you come across as a supremely pathetic ugly jerk who is just being a bully out of his own inferiority complex, but when the chips are down people listen to him, either because in that moment he makes sense, out of grudging respect/fear, or because they sense the sincerity behind his a~!#$+& nature.
IMO, people would still be able to tell the difference between a confident, yet pathetic ugly jerk, and one who is not confident. If you're telling me that your character is rude, unpleasant, lacks confidence, and is pathetic then I'm telling you that you need to reconsider your character since that doesn't sound like a high charisma character to me.
But what if it doesn't? What if I have a beautiful, elegant, graceful young lady who is the center of a party, but when the chips are down and she actually needs to exert her personality on someone she simply lacks the emotional power?
If someone lacks the personal presence to influence someone when they want to, they also lack the personal presence to influence people when they're not actively trying to. If she's interacting with someone at a party, just chit-chatting, and she's a lower charisma character, people are going to conclude "she seems nice, but she's not very interesting."
And I fundamentally disagree with this. You should be asking your players to tell you specifically how they interpret their characters, without looking at the stats except when the dice are rolled.
We're just not going to agree on this. All I can explain is how I've interpreted this for the past 20+ years (and not one of my players has ever had a problem with.) Characters do things all the time that involve no rolls (indeed, it is my inclination to only roll for things when necessary or requested), and in these contexts their stats (and not their skills) are on display. If the party runs to the docks to catch a ship before it leaves, no roll is needed, but the high con characters will be less winded at the end than the low con characters. If the party is helping to offload cargo from the ship when it gets to their destination, no roll is required to pick up a box, but the high strength characters will do so more effortlessly than the low strength characters. A perceptive NPC who is actively paying attention can figure these things out, as can the PCs if they ask or listen to my descriptions (i.e. they are perceptive and paying attention.) The difference between your CHA and your STR here is that your CHA is the sum total of how you carry yourself, and people are always going to notice it if they're interacting with you, unless you're explicitly trying to hide it. This is the basic concept of the "Reaction Table" that dates back to the 1979 DMG. Other characters will form a preconceived notion of you that relates on their disposition towards you (which is in turn related to your Charisma) before you make a single skill roll. Diplomacy checks, and the like, are for changing that opinion after it is initially formed.
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Gonna have to agree with Kyrt.
It's their character so they should be the one deciding these things. They shouldn't be told "Hey, your character is X, so role play it." It's completely arbitrary like telling a player
[examples]
Do those examples seem silly? Well trying to tell a play that they are wrong about the character they created is the same thing.
You're fundamentally misinterpreting what I'm saying. When I review character sheets at the start of a campaign, I'm going to ask people questions about their characters. In that little discussion, things about their stats will come up like "how did your character come to be so strong? Did you do manual labor before adventuring?" or "you have a high charisma, does that mean your character is beautiful? Charming? Persuasive? All of the above?" and the like just so I can have an understanding of all the characters.
If somebody's backstory contains something that does not fit into my setting, I will talk to them about it and see if we can rework it so it fits better. If there is something I want to know about their character, that they haven't bothered to think about I will ask them to think about it (and provide input if they like.)
Everything you tell me about your character will potentially be used to create plot hooks or to motivate NPCs. If you tell me that your 7 Charisma is interpreted by you as "my character is kind of weasely, the sort of person that doesn't look very trustworthy" then NPCs are going to be slower to trust you." If you say "I dunno" when I ask you how you interpret your 7 Charisma, we're going to talk about what it says about your character. Everything on your character sheet is potentially useful in shaping the character or their story, so I'm going to ask a player to talk to me about all of it. All I ever ask is that a character with an especially high or low stat thinks about what that means in the context of their character and tells me what they think it means so the world and the characters can react to that.
If someone is not willing to talk to me about their character, and part of that is "what they think your stats mean and how they reflect that character concept" I would suggest they find a different game. It's not a "you're right, I'm wrong" thing it's a "we are incompatible as GM and players."