two handed warrior killing everything


Advice


Hello once again. So after a 5 month campaign, a session a week I have run out of ways to deal with the two handed improved critical vital striking warrior in my game. He is a crutch the players lean on and on more than one occasion he had almost two shotted a boss. He has always had above average rolls which makes it worse. It makes my week planning seem pointless lol. So what do I do about his damage? Background: They just hit level 10 (they started at 5) the entire GRP is melee 2 battle clerics, a rogue, and the fighter. Currently they are in under dark and they are overconfident cause of the fighters power.


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Killing everything is the warrior's job.


He's a Fighter. Throw some will saves at him, that'll take him out of commission very quickly, and could make that squishy rogue wish they didn't have a Fighter at all when he turns around and starts attacking the party.


All melee types huh? Some suggestions:

1. Target the fighter with Will saves - as Arachnofiend pointed out above

2. Ranged attacks - well-built archer foes, evocation-focused blaster sorcerers, etc.

3. Initiative - never underestimate the power of going first

4. Miss chances - Displacement, fog, Mirror Image; all of these are a good way to get your boss to last an extra hit

5. Damage Resistance - you probably already have this going on, but a single casting of the 4th level spell Stoneskin drops DR 10/adamantine on a creature for the duration of the fight

I haven't run a lot of high-level games lately, but enough to know that past about level 8 unless situations/rolls disallow it most combats become "rocket tag." Basically one side gets a more people to go first than the other and that side deals a wheelbarrow full of damage, then the other side tries to beat that damage total before dying.

The fighter is a killer; that's his job. If all of the PCs have built themselves in the same vein they're doing their jobs as well. They shouldn't be penalized for that but at the same time you should ALL be having fun at the table, not just the players blowing stuff up and you getting frustrated.

That being said build for the whole group in mind. What will challenge the rogue, the cleric? What are interesting plot twists and such? Then after you've got all that in mind, see if there's room in your monster budget for 8th level wizards or clerics to buff your bosses or debuff your melee types.


Also... stirges! Lots of them (no blaster mage = tons of anti-fun). ;-)

Also swarms, but like stirges more. They are a humbling mechanism while being still killable.


grapple him, make him fight not 2 handed.


What exactly this warrior can do against a levitating/flying enemy?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Stirges are the great equalizer.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

1) Avoid boss fights -- at least ones with a single enemy. The party will always have a major action economy advantage over them. The only way to make a single enemy encounter work is to either have them be a long range threat or make them too powerful for a party to deal with. In either case, the enemy will either one-shot a party member and/or get shutdown almost immediately, making for a very short encounter.

2) Use terrain to an enemy's advantage. Difficult terrain and elevation are the bane of a melee fighter's existence. If every encounter is just a flat, featureless environment, you're doing it wrong.

3) Ranged enemies and disabling mages can easily shutdown a melee fighter.

4) Remember darkness and vision, especially in the underdark where everything has darkvision and knows how to fight using stealth.

5) Have lots of enemies. I learned that when you have PCs adept at killing single targets, dealing with many enemies spread out becomes difficult to deal with.


To most of us, the idea that a fighter is breaking the game is almost a joke. Since most people see any fighter or any martial character is under powered compared to all casting classes. However, as described above, there are endless situations where the fighter will not shine. I think a lot of us would like to find an effective way for fighters to be better at doing what they do, not the other way around. Use magic, use terrain, use a bunch of attackers, flight, ranged attacks to defeat the fighter, that's just too easy. There are so many ways to make a fighter ineffective, its really surprise that the fighter is causing a problem in anybody's game.


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Underdark

1) Use the terrrain, can't swing a 2-handed weapon in a narrow passage, of which there are many.

2) Combine above with kobolds/goblins wielding two weapons, and create a mini boss from said race(s) that is a warren champion (Small) and able to fight in narrow passages. Deck him/her out with toys like a haste potion, appropriate feats, bull's strength potion, etc.

3) Mass opponents. Use the narrow passages again, and have a warren of kobolds/goblins attack them from above with rocks, weapons, nets, etc.

4) It's the underdark. Use drow! Drow fighters, drow wizards, a high level priestess, use darkness spells, deeper darkness spells, levoitation, etc., as suggested above...as I did with a group many years back, put the FEAR of the drow and underdark in your party. Have them get captured, stripped of all their stuff (make sure they can regain them though), tortured, etc. Then, if they can't break free, have a contingency, someone who is against the captors who helps to free them and wants them to aid them in their cause against the drow.

5) Traps, pits, natural dangers...the underdark is supposed to be a scary, dangerous place, especially for surfacers and those without darkvision. Use that to your advantage. If the Fighter (or any of them) can't see, they can't do much of anything. No light in the underdark caverns = the Blinded condition, unless one ha darkvision or light spells.

6) Neolithids are always fun in the UDK. Psionic creatures are another, and as magic is often required to survive down there, spellcasters are always another great challenge.

I always viewed GMing as if I were an opponent player with limitless resources (within the level range of course). I needed to have fun too, and the bad guys can be just as decked out as the good guys when it comes to magic and equipment. Customized villains meant to challenge specific heroes isn't a bad thing. Especially if that foe isn't defeated, and is a reocurring opponent.

If you're doing a premade adventure, then this sort of thing is a bit more difficult, but you get the general idea.


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No offense, but as gamer-printer noted, if a freakin' FIGHTER is the dominating force on the battlefield, something is amiss.
Tons of good suggestions here. Terrain, advantageous positions, ambushes, flight, target weak saves etc... But even the humble Ray of Enfeeblement, stacked with its bigger brother Ray of Exhaustion, can bring your Fighter down a notch or two - even if he does save.
Think about your "enemy" (the Fighter), what makes him work, and how you can keep him from using those strengths. Cripple his attack and damage with stacking debuffs; keep him away from his target, or his target away from him, with terrain, positioning and/or visibility; divert his attention away from a big threat with a more immediate one. Think deconstructive and tactical; the Fighter is the problem, and every problem has a solution.
Or, you know. Charm/dominate his greatsword-wielding @$$ and watch his friends scream 'n' scramble in horror 'n' terror. Don't forget to do the whole maniacal/diabolical laughter thing while you're at it.
Don't be affraid to custom-tailor an encounter to take down certain characters; it pays to remind the players what the M in DM stands for ;)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

One thing to keep in mind: don't completely shutdown players. The goal is to challenge the players, not stop them from having fun with their character concepts. Your goal should involve creating problems the party can't solve simply by having the fighter run up and stab it.

The Exchange

Tanglefoot bags are surprisingly effective in limiting melee-masters (even a successful save reduces their speed). Plus, throwing tanglefoot bags means the monsters are destroying the loot! Picture the consternation.


Tangleburn bags are even more annoying


Remember that with the extra damage from vital strike is not multiplied by a critical.

If the clerics are buffing the fighter and the rouge is flanking then the party is working in concert and while the fighter is getting the kills it's the party which is winning.

Also I second both of Cyrad's posts.


Mark Hoover wrote:

All melee types huh? Some suggestions:

1. Target the fighter with Will saves - as Arachnofiend pointed out above

2. Ranged attacks - well-built archer foes, evocation-focused blaster sorcerers, etc.

3. Initiative - never underestimate the power of going first

4. Miss chances - Displacement, fog, Mirror Image; all of these are a good way to get your boss to last an extra hit

5. Damage Resistance - you probably already have this going on, but a single casting of the 4th level spell Stoneskin drops DR 10/adamantine on a creature for the duration of the fight

This is all very good advice. To this I'd add: encounter design.

No "boss" fights, that's asking for trouble. You should design a "boss" encounter, not a single boss. Pick a target CR, say APL+3 for a tough fight. Half of the alotted XP, or a bit more, should be from the "boss" proper, so he should be CR=APL+1, and then you have half the XP to assign to underlings. I'd suggest 2-3 Lieutenants and the rest to some minions/peons.


Again, I'm flagging this as being in the wrong forum - you'll get even more Advice in the Advice subforum...

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