Goblin Squad Member
|
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is mostly intended to be advice for those on the fence about participating in PvP and those who don't want to PvP, but still want to play in the PFO world.
PvP is going to be an important part of the game. No offense to GW but it gives them the ability to be lazy and cost effective. No game can churn out PvE content as fast as people eat it up, and the costs associated with doing so are insane, that is why a game like SWTOR costs 300 million to produce. PvP provides unpredictable encounters that are different every time.
I expect 99.99% of the players will be forced into a PvP encounter at one time or another. It seems to me that we have a lot of people coming from a heavy background in theme park games, or are new to MMO's entirely. In a sandbox such as this, you can't enter PvP with the same mindset. An OPvP sandbox, is very different from an OPvP theme park server. I'm seeing a lot of people seeking shelter from PvP, which is okay, to an extent. But you have to have a healthy ratio of protectors to protectees. I'm guessing the more successful groups will have minimal members that can't defend them selves at all.
The first thing you have to realize is that your death is not a huge setback, if you are playing smart.
Carry only what you need.
You should never go around carrying all your valuables. Inventory management is a large part of the game, even if you are not PvPing. A PvE death can be just as big of setback if you aren't managing your inventories properly. You should always have equivalent backup gear, and backups for your backups. Just because you can use all 'top tier' gear doesn't mean you should. Only bring out the good stuff when you know you need it, and are ready to lose it. Don't go exploring in your best gear, take some mid-level gear that is just enough to fend off PvE threats, and allow you some ability to escape from other players.
Threading helps a lot in this respect. It allows you to break this guideline. Since you can protect pieces of gear, you can carry some better items with you.
Make multiple trips. If you know you are going to be in danger, don't risk all your inventory. If you are emptying a POI, or moving settlements, make multiple trips and mix everything in. Losing 1 out of 4 shipments, is better than losing everything in one.
If you don't already, I suggest playing Minecraft. It teaches you a lot about managing your gear, taking unnecessary risks, and being able to outfit quickly and get back to where you died. Most of all, it teaches you to learn from your mistakes. The first mistake usually involves losing a few hours worth of diamond mining in a lava accident.
Be ready to fight for your home
The more people there are in a settlement, the more lucrative its pillaging. If the majority of the inhabitants have aversions to PvP, they are an easy target. Fighting for your home does not mean that you have to sacrifice anything significant. I'm guessing that most Settlements or Kingdoms will offer compensation for wartime losses, or simply provide their members with 'PvP Gear'.
Most of the time, PVP is not about individual skill. You can have the best 1v1 fighter, and still have the worst army. If you are not skilled at combat, you can still help, and I don't mean by being cannon fodder. Tactics and planning are the key deciding factor in a PvP encounter. A 'zerg' column is easily broken by a smaller force with competent leadership. In Planetside 2 I was part of an outfit that specialized in breaking superior forces. We didn't have anybody special, our membership was open, but we had good leadership.
Be ready to fight, even if you are a crafter. Take some basic combat training no matter what you are doing. If you don't want to get in the thick of it, get some ranged training. You firing arrows at your attackers is much more useful than cowering in the back. Don't put all your faith on your defenders, fight for your self, and you will come out on top more often. Some DPS is better than no DPS.
---
If anybody has something to add, bold your text so it is easier to pick you out of the thread.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Some very good advice Valkenr. Both in a physical and a philosophical sense.
Your death does not need to be a terrible setback. It is in the mind, IF you follow Valkenr's advice. To that section I might add: When harvesting in dangerous areas, do not be a piggy! Figure out what you need for the trip out and the trip back to be profitable and stick to the plan. Do not gather until you are spotted and killed just because your packs are not full.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is good advice. Well done. I hope people read this and understand that this are good rules to follow to increase survival and decrease loss in PFO.
I would add this:
Traveling in groups will also help. 1) this is a MMO, so play with others, and 2) there is safety in numbers.
Take it from a known bandit. The more people traveling together, the greater the risk. The greater the risk, the less likely we are to engage. Even if you are all not combat focused, GW has stated before that the power curve won't be themepark bad. Meaning someone combat focused =lvl 20 character won't be 1 shotting all lvl 5 combat skilled players. So if you have a group of 6 and all are crafters with minor combat skills, and you get attacked by 2 combat skilled characters, you at least will be inflicting damage and stand a chance of winning vs taking no combat skills and just sitting there or trying to run.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
This is good advice. Well done. I hope people read this and understand that this are good rules to follow to increase survival and decrease loss in PFO.
I would add this:
Traveling in groups will also help. 1) this is a MMO, so play with others, and 2) there is safety in numbers.
Take it from a known bandit. The more people traveling together, the greater the risk. The greater the risk, the less likely we are to engage. Even if you are all not combat focused, GW has stated before that the power curve won't be themepark bad. Meaning someone combat focused =lvl 20 character won't be 1 shotting all lvl 5 combat skilled players. So if you have a group of 6 and all are crafters with minor combat skills, and you get attacked by 2 combat skilled characters, you at least will be inflicting damage and stand a chance of winning vs taking no combat skills and just sitting there or trying to run.
Hehe. That was my next post Ninja!
Play this game differently. Travel with friends or other trustables when going through dangerous places. Yes it takes more effort and coordination. Yes your bank will be more full of goodies.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some very good advice Valkenr. Both in a physical and a philosophical sense.
Your death does not need to be a terrible setback. It is in the mind, IF you follow Valkenr's advice. To that section I might add: When harvesting in dangerous areas, do not be a piggy! Figure out what you need for the trip out and the trip back to be profitable and stick to the plan. Do not gather until you are spotted and killed just because your packs are not full.
Ahem... is that Darkfall talking, Koda?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ahem... is that Darkfall talking, Koda?Some very good advice Valkenr. Both in a physical and a philosophical sense.
Your death does not need to be a terrible setback. It is in the mind, IF you follow Valkenr's advice. To that section I might add: When harvesting in dangerous areas, do not be a piggy! Figure out what you need for the trip out and the trip back to be profitable and stick to the plan. Do not gather until you are spotted and killed just because your packs are not full.
Yes Sir Lhan, it is. Darkfall lessons relearned, but also from UO and forgotten. I just needed a couple of....uhm.... "reminder ganks" to refresh that lesson. ;)
Things also became increasingly better as I trained some combat skills and fought back. Tough choices ahead if PfO has a full bevy of gathering/crafting/merchant skills enough to eat all my exp points. :(
Oink! Oink!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
No one seems to have philosophical problems with AI-controlled mobs out in the world that will suicidally attack you on sight unless you can defeat them.
PvP is the same combat with less predictable AI, and even introduces possibilities of not being automatically attacked.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No one seems to have philosophical problems with AI-controlled mobs out in the world that will suicidally attack you on sight unless you can defeat them.
PvP is the same combat with less predictable AI, and even introduces possibilities of not being automatically attacked.
That's true enough out in the wild but AI usually doesn't chase you to the ends of the earth, seek you out for revenge or call in reinforcements that wait for you to run into them.
It's all the ganky, harrassing stuff that people do that AI hasn't yet which causes folks to shy away from PvP. In PvE, if you are attacked you either fight back and defeat them or run away and that's the end of it.
People hold grudges, mobs don't.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
No one seems to have philosophical problems with AI-controlled mobs out in the world that will suicidally attack you on sight unless you can defeat them.
PvP is the same combat with less predictable AI, and even introduces possibilities of not being automatically attacked.
No one seems to have a problem with the possibility of having their settlement sacked in war either.
It (banditry) leaves a deep seated distaste because it almost always comes completely unexpected. To me, it seems the same thing as war or PVE mobs. I did not always feel that way.
I believe that with a good number of vocal bandits and "gung ho" PVPers posting here, there is a growing feeling that it might be very common or constant.
My attitude has changed about it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think one of the problems with PvP is that whole concept of competition is being eliminated from recent U. S. culture. I have heard of schools getting rid of valedictorian or salutatorian, because not all children have the academic ability to achieve that level.
Recently both a school and a party service have stopped playing "Musical Chairs" because there is only one winner.
This is what some call the "pussification of America". Men in particular are being feminized, and that has been going on for decades.
The more competitive PFO can be, the better, in my opinion.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think one of the problems with PvP is that whole concept of competition is being eliminated from recent U. S. culture. I have heard of schools getting rid of valedictorian or salutatorian, because not all children have the academic ability to achieve that level.
Recently both a school and a party service have stopped playing "Musical Chairs" because there is only one winner.
This is what some call the "pussification of America". Men in particular are being feminized, and that has been going on for decades.
The more competitive PFO can be, the better, in my opinion.
Yeah, let's talk politics, that's gonna work out well.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Excellent advice Valkenr!
And I have said this before on other posts, but I will repeat it here: If you are adverse to PvP but are attacked and killed by someone in PFO (and this is likely if you're going to venture out of the protected areas), remember that that is part of the game, don't get overly upset about it, and by all means reach out to the player who killed you and ask the why's and wherefors. You will likely find that those PvPers are more than willing to provide you advice on how to better protect yourself in the future.
And that will make the game more fun for everyone!
|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Talking about the feminization of men and school policy is politic. It has no place here, proof being that me, for example, am considered a "far right (yes, right) extremist", so my opinions about the game are hardly influenced by a social environment.
And by the way, you are essentially calling "feminised pussys" people not agreeing with you.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Talking about the feminization of men and school policy is politic. It has no place here, proof being that me, for example, am considered a "far right (yes, right) extremist", so my opinions about the game are hardly influenced by a social environment.
And by the way, you are essentially calling "feminised pussys" people not agreeing with you.
trans·fer·ence noun \tran(t)s-ˈfər-ən(t)s, ˈtran(t)s-(ˌ)\
: the act of moving something from one place to anotherPerhaps you should re read what I had wrote. You and others have often written that you do not have an issue with PvP, so why do you feel I was referring to you, or anyone else in particular?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I do think that Audoucet does have one fair point - schools *are* run by the government, so it's pretty difficult to talk about public school policy without political overtones.
The socialization of students in schools is not part of the political directives of a school system, they are part of the social engineering that often times comes out of academia.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think we are getting a bit off topic with this "political" debate. Bludd wasn't meaning to bring real world politics into this, he was using it as an example, similar to how I mentioned the football analogy in another thread. I wasn't bringing sports into this, I was using it as I felt it helped show my point. It is my belief bludd did the same here.
That being said, I have seen this type of concept applied in other games also. PVP gets nerfed into the ground to "protect" PVEers and it just ruins it. Instead, I am proposing that each be treated separately, basically meaning PVE does their thing and pvp ours. There will never be a "balance" between them.
To clarify, let me say this. No matter what you do, a pvp oriented player will always beat a PVE character in a fight because the PVE character doesn't train combat skills. (I'm referring to crafter and merchant types as PVE, I realize there will be PVE fighter types for escalations and such) Not amount of buffing or nerfing will change that. The "balance" comes in where PVEers will generally have more money and influence that straight PVPers and therefore could hire their own PVPers to protect them.
It boils down to this. If you refuse to spend time and exp in PFO to train and learn combat skills, then don't. However, you will have a choice:
1)Test your running skills when ever you see another player you know isn't friendly
2)Take what's coming and accept the losses
3)Spend some of that wealth on players that love to fight other players.
Some players will want to rob/kill you and gain their money/items that way, others prefer to be paid by you to protect them from the first type of player.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Stay alert, bank your gains often, talk *before* the fight starts.
Remember that random killing has a cost, it is more likely bandits will use feud or war to avoid rep loss than just randomly attacking folks.
So staying in numerous smaller companies/seettlements could be safer, if multiple feuds are too costly in influence... there're many tactics for the non-pvp player to experiment with in EE.
Yelling for help if the attack is random can't hurt. Everybody loves a clear target.
Settle near good aligned towns with high rep thresholds, their players are much less likely to opportunity-rob, and much more likely to help fight off attackers.
Thread your gathering/crafting tools so you can regain your losses !
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Disclaimer: YMMV
I have mixed feelings about the use of the term PvP. I think that we should be referring to this as CvC, Character vs Character. For me the term PvP is very personal; a real world individual attacking another real world individual through the proxy of a game. If this were really personal then all of a individual player's characters would be after every character of another individual player. That is personal. However, in CvC, one of player A's characters may have a vendetta against one of player B's characters while a different player A character may be in the same faction as another of player B's characters; possible even a trusted associate.
I, for one, invest a lot of time and effort into the building of a character persona. If I allow myself to get too focused on the game I run the risk of becoming obsessively protective of that character, even to the extent that I would interpret the killing of that character as a personal attack, which is not the intent of conflict in game (at least as I understand the game). I have the nagging feeling when reading some of the posts about the issue of PvP that people are taking this extremely personal. Maybe it is time for a change in terminology to help us all focus on "it's just a really great game".
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's not politics, it has nothing to do with government. It is social commentary.I don't think he was talking politics, but expressing his opinion :SYeah. Political opinion.
Not all of us are Americans ;)
So you just keep your pussification over there
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Disclaimer: YMMV
I have mixed feelings about the use of the term PvP. I think that we should be referring to this as CvC, Character vs Character. For me the term PvP is very personal; a real world individual attacking another real world individual through the proxy of a game. If this were really personal then all of a individual player's characters would be after every character of another individual player. That is personal. However, in CvC, one of player A's characters may have a vendetta against one of player B's characters while a different player A character may be in the same faction as another of player B's characters; possible even a trusted associate.I, for one, invest a lot of time and effort into the building of a character persona. If I allow myself to get too focused on the game I run the risk of becoming obsessively protective of that character, even to the extent that I would interpret the killing of that character as a personal attack, which is not the intent of conflict in game (at least as I understand the game). I have the nagging feeling when reading some of the posts about the issue of PvP that people are taking this extremely personal. Maybe it is time for a change in terminology to help us all focus on "it's just a really great game".
Well said.
+1
|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have to admit, while one of the core concepts of Pathfinder Online is PVP. From what I heard the idea is to create now what is it? "meaningful conflicts".....perhaps I am getting this wrong. you need to fight for what you have, against monsters other players etc....
Now, I suppose one way to put it is this: the Pathfinder Role Playing game, the one held in person, in living rooms, dining rooms, game stores.....I guess what people call Table Top games...where you get together with some friends. One person GMs, several others play characters who form a team, with each player and character bringing something to the team, the adventuring party. The GM then puts challenges for the players to work together and over come cooperatively with their characters. Unlike most competitive games, these role playing games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder are cooperative games where players work together towards overcoming the common goals and challenges the GM sets up for them.
I have reservations about Pathfinder Online. the biggest reservation I have is about the PVP core of the game. Now from perhaps my limited perspective, Pathfinder online seems to be entirely a cat of a different stripe. The non consentual PVP aspect that the game is built around, seems to me that it fundamentally changes what I consider a cooperative game to a competitive game.
I don't have any interest in PVP. I doubt I will. I am open to the possibility that I might enjoy Pathfinder online. I am willing to give the game a try. We shall see how things go.
I suppose the worst that can happen, is that I find the game to frustrating, to full of bullies, and sociopathic behavior. Then I'll move on.
But I may may find that I enjoy the game. I am willing to give it a try.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Personally, I have never been a fan of PVP. The main reason was that I never tried to embrace the reality that it was part of the games I was playing. I never tried to get better at it or to surround myself with people that were. I tried to play as if in a Theme Park, as a loner. I am actually excited to try a different outlook for PfO.
There is absolutely no reason that I can't get good at it (in all aspects, not just combat) if I try. These guys are not any smarter than I am (on average). The rules and mechanics are the same for me as they are for them.
I really think that everything will be alright. Once all the important things are implemented and balanced (working as intended) the game will prove less "kill fest" than others of the sandbox species. It has to or it will sit at "mediocre to poor" as a game. I believe that GW will do everything that they can to prevent that from happening.
There will be PVP. For awhile it will probably be pretty brutal. That is kinda why we are here. To test and stretch the "layered approach" solution to bad gaming and get it where GW wants it. Even once balanced, it will sometimes be hard for the loser to find "meaning" in the reason for the attack. Overall, I think it will be better than what we think of as "wide open PVP" yet more intensive than "consensual only PVP". A balance that GW tries to achieve to maximize player interest and longevity.
It will be close to what GW wants within 2 - 3 years (if sooner, all the better). We (the players) will have to decide if it is the game for us. Hopefully, we can try to adapt to this "balance" and find that it actually is fun and worth our $15.00/month.
In the end, we all will have to decide for ourselves, as we all feel these things to different degrees.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have to admit, while one of the core concepts of Pathfinder Online is PVP. From what I heard the idea is to create now what is it? "meaningful conflicts".....perhaps I am getting this wrong. you need to fight for what you have, against monsters other players etc....
Now, I suppose one way to put it is this: the Pathfinder Role Playing game, the one held in person, in living rooms, dining rooms, game stores.....I guess what people call Table Top games...where you get together with some friends. One person GMs, several others play characters who form a team, with each player and character bringing something to the team, the adventuring party. The GM then puts challenges for the players to work together and over come cooperatively with their characters. Unlike most competitive games, these role playing games, Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder are cooperative games where players work together towards overcoming the common goals and challenges the GM sets up for them.
I have reservations about Pathfinder Online. the biggest reservation I have is about the PVP core of the game. Now from perhaps my limited perspective, Pathfinder online seems to be entirely a cat of a different stripe. The non consentual PVP aspect that the game is built around, seems to me that it fundamentally changes what I consider a cooperative game to a competitive game.
I don't have any interest in PVP. I doubt I will. I am open to the possibility that I might enjoy Pathfinder online. I am willing to give the game a try. We shall see how things go.
I suppose the worst that can happen, is that I find the game to frustrating, to full of bullies, and sociopathic behavior. Then I'll move on.
But I may may find that I enjoy the game. I am willing to give it a try.
After reading this I decided I wanted to give my thoughts of point you brought up.
Most everything you said was correct. the TT (table top) version of PF and D&D is setup in a manor that promotes the players grouping up and working together to over come enemies and challenges setup by the GM. There is no actual PVP in the TT version, although some would argue it is player vs GM but I disagree with this. He is just RPing the bad guys and enemies the party faces, he functions similar to how a computer does in a single player, or even theme park style MMO.
The issue with a sandbox mmo, such as PFO, is that there is very little, if any, NPC action, as the NPC are equivalent to the GM controlled monsters from the TT. There will be, I know this, but they are not designed to be the "primary source" of evil and "bad" in the game. At least compared to that of a typical theme park style MMO. In order to fill that gap that is left by not having NPCs be the bad guys, PC's take the role and there lies the problem.
Having PC's play the bad guys gives several elements that a NPC can not achieve, such as typically more difficult encounters and much more random and varied experiences. This is a double edged blade. On the up side, it gives more variety with little to no additional programming, and tends to be more difficult as well, increasing the reward and satisfaction once over come. The down side is that when other players play the evil bad guy types, you run the risk of them "embracing" the dark side and going too far, resulting in the ruining of the fun and enjoyment the game is designed to bring.
GW is trying to do what they can to curve this risk with mechanics and other outcomes designed to discourage this type of behavior. The community can also do what they can, by making them known across the land and "black listed" and shunned. As well as hunting them with bounty hunters and assassins. The hope is that these different methods of discouraging of this type of behavior (commonly referred to as greifing) will work and they game will be a success, being a fun and enjoyable place for everyone and all playstyles.
It will not be for everyone and some people will leave because of others due to pvp experiences. This can be minimized by education, meaning informing people of how to minimize the likely hood of them being attacked. (like travel in numbers, train combat skills, travel light, ect.)
@Elyas, I hope that I have added to your post and understood what it is you were saying. I hope this explains how I am approaching PVP and the difference between the TT PF and PFO.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well said Valkenr. PvP also increases the danger of gathering and transporting resources... with increased danger, you have more valuable resources, and thus, you can earn more money from them... enough to hire the honest protection you need from honourable mercenaries/protectors.
It's a nice feeling going through a dangerous area surrounded by people who're protecting you. It gives the non-PvP'ers a fun sense of danger... and, since they're gathering resources, they can afford to hire the help while providing jobs for those who wish to PvP on the side of light, (or the side of honest profit, as the case may be).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You are not invincible. Take only calculated risks based on past experience. This will help you avoid the very undesirable death state.
If you do not trust a situation, do not be a part of it. As soon as you get in over your head, you are going to have that much harder of a time extricating yourself successfully.
Make friends, try not to be a loner.
You are playing in a world where other people are the content, soloing is only plausible for a while. Eventually you will need help from someone.
Do not be afraid to try new things.
Do so in a safe environment first.
'Hey guys, watch this' while out in the field is not acceptable behavior around others.
Just like you can die easily, so to can you get your group killed through reckless behavior.
Spend time practicing how to get out of bad situations.
Having hardwired reactions to emergencies is what saves lives. Your life in PFO is probably worth a bit more than you are used to in other games. This is also the kind of thing that can garner you a great amount of respect from other players. Holding it together when SHTF and pulling through is what can elevate a good group to being great.
Spend even more time just sparring with a buddy to learn not just the basics, but a few bread and butter tricks as well.
Knowing these attack patterns with a bit of variety can go a long way towards not having to run and/or die.
Do not approach PvP and other character interactions as you did in other MMOs.
Unless those other MMOs happened to also include meaningful PvP, chances are you have a mentality that is groomed towards failure in this environment. Talking trash or being insulting to someone is the fastest way to find out just how not helpful that old behavior can be.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We should use this thread as PR for PFO. I am sure lots of people are dying to get a taste of BOOT CAMP.
On a more constructive note: the only way imo that Goblinworks is going to steal away a slice of the PvE pie (players) is to provide gameplay that is deep and fun and curb senseless killing. They have to hook players and a lot will depend on how relatively straightforward features like combat will feel, how the monsters will look and behave, animations, overall atmosphere of the game/landscapes and such. I am talking OE and onwards here off course, not EE.
Take the much dreaded "unresponsive" combat; badly implemented Global cooldowns, keys not firing off, "mythic" seconds, the delay that LOTRO used to have in their Combat. If they do not get this right, then a large percentage of the PvE crowd (and probably PvP crowd) will drop the game before they can get a taste for the greater features, or even had a need to read the pointers here.
The "NPC-startertown newbie" phase will be the time where those first hooks must have been placed firmly into the PvE-player that is checking out this new-fangled PvP game called PFO. And those hooks I describe above, if done well, will do a lot more for retention then the pointers in this thread imo. Personally I think if you show this thread to a typical PvE player, he will probably refrain from even trying the game.
And showing it to a PvP player will probably just annoy them.
I mean, the pointers make sense, sure(lots of no-brainers tbh), but reading about it like this just sounds horrible. I hope this thread gets buried soon. It feels patronizing and as if people need some kind of initiation. While all they need is fun, not being scared into "PvP mode". For every new guy that reads it and replies with "thanks guys, I could really use this!" there are probably 9 that ran back to their PvE game asap and never look back. The title alone might do it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It has no place here, proof being that me, for example, am considered a "far right (yes, right) extremist", so my opinions about the game are hardly influenced by a social environment.
Holding 'far right' opinions is as suspect a guarantee of independent thinking as holding 'far left' opinions.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't fully agree, I hope there is some manipulation of moving your character about for PvP. This game will never be like EVE PvP, its just not the same physics, automation, or ship tactics.
Actually, I think it may be, and that is unfortunate. Tab Targeting + Auto Facing ( or if you prefer, where facing does not matter) = EvE's basic combat system.
Even if you consider GW's plans of having movement in combat (running and or jumping) reduce the number of actions (attacks) you can use, this too is basically Eve's use if the capacitor to limit actions / high speed movement.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
On a more constructive note: the only way imo that Goblinworks is going to steal away a slice of the PvE pie (players) is to provide gameplay that is deep and fun and curb senseless killing. They have to hook players and a lot will depend on how relatively straightforward features like combat will feel, how the monsters will look and behave, animations, overall atmosphere of the game/landscapes and such. I am talking OE and onwards here off course, not EE.
Take the much dreaded "unresponsive" combat; badly implemented Global cooldowns, keys not firing off, "mythic" seconds, the delay that LOTRO used to have in their Combat. If they do not get this right, then a large percentage of the PvE crowd (and probably PvP crowd) will drop the game before they can get a taste for the greater features, or even had a need to read the pointers here.
Except for my complete lack of hand/eye coordination. For me, that always seems to matter in the end :-).
Hopefully this game won't be based on hand/eye coordination, just like EvE wasn't. Without a doubt, if combat looks like a rabbit fight with characters erratically jumping around, I won't even pay a month of game time.
Heh, aye. Clickfests are no joy for me either.. :)
Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but the initial comment by Tyncale seems to be at odds with the following posts.
Games that "pop" and have very smooth and responsive controls tend to evolve very organically and very quickly into games that favor players who use these controls as efficiently and quickly as possible.
Compare WoW's very fast response time to FF14's intentional network delay and global cooldowns. There's a world of difference between the PvP aspects of both of these games. WoW PVP looks and plays like an entirely different beast compared to FF14 PVP.
It's exceptionally difficult to toe the line between responsive controls mandating good hand-eye coordination and a game that's slow enough that anyone, regardless of physical capability, can compete in.
Excellent advice Valkenr!
And I have said this before on other posts, but I will repeat it here: If you are adverse to PvP but are attacked and killed by someone in PFO (and this is likely if you're going to venture out of the protected areas), remember that that is part of the game, don't get overly upset about it, and by all means reach out to the player who killed you and ask the why's and wherefors. You will likely find that those PvPers are more than willing to provide you advice on how to better protect yourself in the future.
And that will make the game more fun for everyone!
You're living in a dream world. I've played MMO's for years now, and I've PvP-d in all of them. Reaching out to the person that killed you will typically get you the response "L2P Noob. lololol"
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Excellent advice Valkenr!
And I have said this before on other posts, but I will repeat it here: If you are adverse to PvP but are attacked and killed by someone in PFO (and this is likely if you're going to venture out of the protected areas), remember that that is part of the game, don't get overly upset about it, and by all means reach out to the player who killed you and ask the why's and wherefors. You will likely find that those PvPers are more than willing to provide you advice on how to better protect yourself in the future.
And that will make the game more fun for everyone!
You're living in a dream world. I've played MMO's for years now, and I've PvP-d in all of them. Reaching out to the person that killed you will typically get you the response "L2P Noob. lololol"
I have had the opposite experience, and in some of the more limitless PvP MMOs (EvE and Darkfall).