Frankly, the potential of this skill is hilarious. It's great how in just a few days, when you level, you can potentially learn several new languages "just because". One of our recent games had three characters each nearly maxing out this skill by the end, with two of us having such high Int scores we were having trouble finding new languages to add to the list. "Will I ever actually use Cyclops? Meh, no more than I'll use Necril. Onto the list it goes!" The two of us also eventually substituted 'All Outsider' for Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, and the elemental languages just to make room on the sheet. It is simultaneously hugely useful while also being just a hilariously unrealistic skill point investment. All that and making/detecting forgeries too!
I wish learning a new language were as easy as being exposed to it and spending a skill point. I've been with my Romanian wife for nearly six years and the best I can manage is the most elementary of small talk.
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Agreed, it's unrealistic. But on the other hand, trying to long-term role play encounters where you have no common language is un-fun. Given a choice between realism and fun,....
or you could assume that the PC has been practicing using the Common to Necril phrase book, available from all good Pathfinder stores, from a very young age.
If you assume that the PC just woke up one day knowing Cyclops/how to cast arcane spells/anything else you want then yeah, hilarious...
or you could assume that the PC has been practicing using the Common to Necril phrase book, available from all good Pathfinder stores, from a very young age.
Yeah, because Taldane->Russian phrase books are so common on Golarion. Or in Russia, for that matter.
or you could assume that the PC has been practicing using the Common to Necril phrase book, available from all good Pathfinder stores, from a very young age.Yeah, because Taldane->Russian phrase books are so common on Golarion. Or in Russia, for that matter.
You know exactly what I mean...
I once played a Tengu that maxed out Linguistics. It was hilarious.
Did...did you just start making up languages at that point?
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You could also say that in the time it took to garner enough experience points to level up, the character has been spending pretty much all of her free time studying.
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I find hilarious is how linguistics is about a lot of different skills. A Half-orc Barbarian randomly picked 2 ranks of linguistics to learn how to swear at dragons and giants and somehow now he is the group designated lawyer, because he is better at reading legal documents than anyone in the group.
This has bothered me for years. This, and non-standard races that get their own language. I mean, it makes sense that each race would create their own way to communicate, but it's just a kick in the pants to people who want to rely on Linguistics instead of magical comprehension. How could anybody be expected to learn freaking Boggard and hope to use it?
To exacerbate this problem, players seem to gain levels at an extraordinarily expedient rate, at least in games I'm in. Maybe a week passes between levels, on the high end of average. So this week, you suddenly know Ignan! Next week, Aquan and beyond! (But only one language per week. More than that would be crazy.)
Oh, and 20-year-olds start off knowing like 7 languages. You must have been very accomplished in wizard school, sir.
I can only assume languages have a very different quality in this fantasy world.
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I once played a Tengu that maxed out Linguistics. It was hilarious.
Excellent, someone else who can enjoy flail snail poetry in its natural form.
-TimD
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I once played a Tengu that maxed out Linguistics. It was hilarious.Excellent, someone else who can enjoy flail snail poetry in its natural form.
-TimD
Hey, I think I identified the next language to take on my Truespeaker aasimar!
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With so many languages so tightly packed I assume that it is easier to learn more languages, rather quickly (probably still too fast for realism) but consider the evidence of this in real life. In America, you maybe have the opportunity to meet Mexicans and might learn Spanish. In Europe, there are a lot more countries nearby and all intermingled in such a way that the average european who dabbles into other languages could speak 2-3 extra languages pretty well (especially with latin based languages).
Yeah, I am American, and studied German and Italian, but since I have basically no real way to practice after I graduated, I can barely string two sentences together.
In Europe, I imagine having opportunity to practice is a bit easier. Especially for places like Switzerland with multiple languages within the same country.
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I view linguistics as the skill Daniel Jackson in Stargate uses.
Oh, and 20-year-olds start off knowing like 7 languages. You must have been very accomplished in wizard school, sir.
I can only assume languages have a very different quality in this fantasy world.
Actually, the rookie shortstop for the Boston Red Sox, Xander Bogaerts, speaks six languages, and he's about that age. Some people have a gift and a culture that nurtures it.
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Actually, the rookie shortstop for the Boston Red Sox, Xander Bogaerts, speaks six languages, and he's about that age. Some people have a gift and a culture that nurtures it.
Oh, and 20-year-olds start off knowing like 7 languages. You must have been very accomplished in wizard school, sir.
I can only assume languages have a very different quality in this fantasy world.
Wizards also average a bit older than that. I have a friend who got out of Grad School (which is probably as close to a Wizard's Academy as we get in the real world) a year or so ago at the age of 26 (within the scope for a starting Wizard) speaking half a dozen languages or so (only one of which was really required for his major). And that was in the US. Not the best environment to do that in.
Speaking two to four languages is typical throughout most of the world. More is notable...but so are Intelligence scores over 14.
The US is actually the exception, not the rule, in terms of common number of languages known.
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Actually, the rookie shortstop for the Boston Red Sox, Xander Bogaerts, speaks six languages, and he's about that age. Some people have a gift and a culture that nurtures it.
Oh, and 20-year-olds start off knowing like 7 languages. You must have been very accomplished in wizard school, sir.
I can only assume languages have a very different quality in this fantasy world.
I grant you that some people can be talented. However, in D&D, *all* wizards start with at least 4 or 5, and they tend to be the strange ones. (Just how often do you use Abyssal in everyday conversation in most places?)
Wizard academies must have really aggressive language programs. Magic words and all that.
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Actually, the rookie shortstop for the Boston Red Sox, Xander Bogaerts, speaks six languages, and he's about that age. Some people have a gift and a culture that nurtures it.
Oh, and 20-year-olds start off knowing like 7 languages. You must have been very accomplished in wizard school, sir.
I can only assume languages have a very different quality in this fantasy world.
I grant you that some people can be talented. However, in D&D, *all* wizards start with at least 4 or 5, and they tend to be the strange ones. (Just how often do you use Abyssal in everyday conversation in most places?)
Wizard academies must have really aggressive language programs. Magic words and all that.
Actually, that falls more under the heading of a proficient IT technician being cognizant of programming code. Very few wizard's academies won't teach at least the basics of summoning & you definitely want to know the proper terminology when dealing with most Outsiders. Giving a Fiend a chance to 'creatively misinterpret' your commands is a good way to become next semester's 'object lesson'.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic (football player) speaks five languages (Swedish, Bosnian, Spanish, English, and Italian) from his heritage and football career.
The Polish Ambassador to the US speaks Polish, English, Spanish, Italian and Russian, many probably due to his previous political appointments.
So Wizard, as a career, is just like "international footballer" or "international politician," it probably requires you to learn other languages.
Its just you will need to make "treaties" (Summon Monster/Planar Binding) with things from further away than the next country over on the map.
My friend, having grown up in southern Sweden, knew 5 languages before she came to Canada in her mid-twenties. She didn't specialize in languages or anything.
Very well. I'll concede the whole point. :) Learning languages quickly with a skill rank is still crazy, though.
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I find hilarious is how linguistics is about a lot of different skills. A Half-orc Barbarian randomly picked 2 ranks of linguistics to learn how to swear at dragons and giants and somehow now he is the group designated lawyer, because he is better at reading legal documents than anyone in the group.
Well, thats what he went to school for.
GM (surprised questioning voice: "You speak Aklo?"
The look on that monster's face was priceless.
Player: <I swear at him in Minotaur>
GM: Your PC is a female varisian bard. Such a sweet looking little girl is going to do that ?
Player: <Yes. A blue streak. I'll make it an intimidate check.>
Player: <nat 20>
Perhaps all languages in Golarion are closely related or there are clusters of closely related languages. Thus if you know one it takes little effort to learn many others. We do see this situation in the real world with romance languages and Germanic languages and many African languages. Romanian is an odd ball but many Slavic languages are similar.
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Very well. I'll concede the whole point. :) Learning languages quickly with a skill rank is still crazy, though.
Not a lot more than suddenly knowing how to play the guitar or pick locks. It's a bit ridiculous, but you have to assume they've been learning all their skills for a while or it...ceases to make a lot of sense for most skills in general.
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I had a gnome rogue in rise of the runelords with maxed linguistics and I think of two languages per..the funny part is speaking 0ver 30 languages and druid is still impossible.. stupid "secret" languages.
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Perhaps all languages in Golarion are closely related or there are clusters of closely related languages. Thus if you know one it takes little effort to learn many others. We do see this situation in the real world with romance languages and Germanic languages and many African languages. Romanian is an odd ball but many Slavic languages are similar.
This also makes sense considering the existence of powerful, long-lived races, which will dramatically slow language drift.
The reason we don't speak Shakespearean English today is because Shakespeare is dead, as are all his contemporaries, so we have no incentive to speak in a way that he would understand. If Shakespeare had been an elf, he'd be a mere 450 years old, and his plays would have been running steadily in the West End, and he'd still be giving day-to-day directions to the actors working for him, which means you had better understand him if you want to act in one of his plays.
... which basically describes the Chelish opera scene in Golarion. Hence modern Chelish is going to be fairly close to 500 year old Chelish.
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I assume that you mean the Chelish dialect of Taldane? :)
(Apparently Chelish was retconned away as a separate language.)
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or you could assume that the PC has been practicing using the Common to Necril phrase book, available from all good Pathfinder stores, from a very young age.
Yeah, because Taldane->Russian phrase books are so common on Golarion. Or in Russia, for that matter.
For that particular AP, I would assume that at least one relataively minor but potentially very helpful inhabitant of the main form of transportation might leave various grammar books and dictionaries around for the party to find. Hopefully the party can take a hint or two ...
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I assume that you mean the Chelish dialect of Taldane? :)
(Apparently Chelish was retconned away as a separate language.)
Meh. A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.
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Meh. A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.I assume that you mean the Chelish dialect of Taldane? :)
(Apparently Chelish was retconned away as a separate language.)
Unless it is in Crimea...
The US is actually the exception, not the rule, in terms of common number of languages known.
which is actually an advantage rather than a drawback in most respects. Is it really necessary to know 7 different words for cat?
There are, of course, benefits for learning multiple languages just as there are benefits for learning anything. But, the cost-benefit ratio of learning multiple languages is generally not so good — because of the high level of redundancy involved.
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which is actually an advantage rather than a drawback in most respects. Is it really necessary to know 7 different words for cat?
Eh...knowing multiple languages allows increasing cross-cultural understanding and communication. That's actually very handy. And learning multiple languages as a small child isn't actually very difficult all things considered. Knowing multiple divergent languages also often makes learning additional ones easier.
There are, of course, benefits for learning multiple languages just as there are benefits for learning anything. But, the cost-benefit ratio of learning multiple languages is generally not so good — because of the high level of redundancy involved.
It's not overwhelmingly useful, but it's not overwhelmingly difficult if the cultural milieu supports it. Seems worth doing. It's far from the most important thing ever, but it's not a bad thing to strive for.
And I say this as someone bad at languages, and who only speaks English, meaning this'll be actively bad for me personally if it becomes common.
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I think a lot of people forget how awesome the forgery part of linguistics can be. In any city that highly values bureaucracy, a good linguistics check and a bit of social engineering can get you almost anything you want as long as you're smart. A party I was in once even managed to acquire a powerful golem because our rogue managed to find some paperwork as a sample and made us an "official" goods distribution form and operation authorization papers.
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As a random aside on this, I've also seen linguistics used for sign language and lip reading (PFS actually specifies you can sink a point into linguistics for lip reading).
Another use I'm pondering is using a point of linguistics for flag-signals (such as for ship-to-ship communication).
-TimD
which is actually an advantage rather than a drawback in most respects. Is it really necessary to know 7 different words for cat?Eh...knowing multiple languages allows increasing cross-cultural understanding and communication. That's actually very handy. And learning multiple languages as a small child isn't actually very difficult all things considered. Knowing multiple divergent languages also often makes learning additional ones easier.
Learning anything as a small child is easier than after puberty when brain plasticity has dramatically decreased and there are fewer neurons left due to pruning.
Cross-cultural understanding is valuable, but there are many other things that are also valuable that people do not routinely learn. Moreover, given globalization (which includes the Internet), the maintenance of such language redundancy becomes increasingly pressured, in a manner similar to the retaining of systems of measurement such as Imperial rather than having everyone switch to the Metric system.
I also think people overestimate the differences between cultures that are specifically language-based. It also seems that those things could be taught separately, in one's native language, as a form of Sociology and/or Anthropology.
It's not overwhelmingly useful, but it's not overwhelmingly difficult if the cultural milieu supports it.
Languages take a lot of effort to learn. No native speaker ever fully masters their own language, let alone others. The time spent trying to learn so much redundancy could instead be spent developing a deeper mastery of one's own language, as well as time/energy for other things.
And I say this as someone bad at languages, and who only speaks English, meaning this'll be actively bad for me personally if it becomes common.
I have a lot of experience with language instruction, both foreign-language and English-language, which I won't go into. My experience with computing has influenced me to value efficiency a lot more than most people in the Humanities.
A poet, for instance, argued that the most beautiful aspect of the English language is its irregular forms. That may be beautiful to a poet's schizophrenic delight, but it's not especially practical for many things. There are positives and negatives to anything, but the primary purpose of language is to communicate rather than to flummox.
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I'm pondering is using a point of linguistics for flag-signals (such as for ship-to-ship communication).
-TimD
It's called semaphore.
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It's called semaphore.I'm pondering is using a point of linguistics for flag-signals (such as for ship-to-ship communication).
-TimD
C / 3 / Indeed :)
Semaphore is only one example as it is generally limited to ship-to-ship communication and I was pondering alternate uses such as modified fan language based codes as well as recognizing battle honors / standards / dignitaries based on presentation of flags & heraldry.Additional fun could be had with knot-based writings, drum signals, and smoke signals as well as more esoteric mediums unique to fantasy, I would imagine...
-TimD
It's called semaphore.I'm pondering is using a point of linguistics for flag-signals (such as for ship-to-ship communication).
-TimD
I'm not sure I'd demand that someone spend a skill point to learn what amounts to a different alphabet.
You can learn semaphore -- literally -- from a single Web page with a week or so of practice. It's about 1/6 of a Boy Scout Merit Badge.
Ship-to-ship communications are a little more complex, because they have a code book as well. For example, a white saltire on a blue background means "I have a doctor on board," presumably in response to a question. That might be worth a skill point, depending upon the GM.
England expects
When signaling by flag from ships, the location of the flag (where it is being flown from) can alter the meaning. I used to play a game called "Close Action" that simulated this by limiting communication between players to the contents of a predetermined 50 element list. The host of our games would prepare tasty snacks for after the game, usually brownies, leading to the inclusion of (unofficial) Signal #51.
Signal #51 meant "Prepare to take aboard brownies."