[Help] non-witch spells onto spell lists


Advice


I'm playing a witch currently and I'd like to get the stat boosting spells onto my spell list (Bear's Endurance, Eagles Splendor etc). Is there some way to do this without taking a dip into another class or relying on items to get them?

Thank you in advance
Obi

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Based on patron, you could get owl's wisdom, bull's strength, bear's endurance, OR cat's grace. Or if you're playing a Samsaran, the Mystic Past Life trait would let you add spells to your spell list. Otherwise, I don't think there is a way.

What do you need them for?

Scarab Sages

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You could go into the Magaambyan Arcanist Prc and add them to you list as they are on the Druid list.

I really don't think it's worth it though.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Imbicatus wrote:
I really don't think it's worth it though.

Yeah, I don't know if I've ever actually cast any of them. Since they don't stack with the stat-boosting belts and headbands, they become obsolete pretty quickly.


Just take Craft Wondrous Item and make some belts and headbands. You don't need the spell for wondrous items, you can just make a more difficult spellcraft check.


If you are truly opposed to using belts and headbands for some reason you can use the spell research rules to learn them if your GM allows. You can keep getting your character killed and having your companions reincarnate you until you become a Samsaran and then take Mystic Past Life, but that is expensive and extreme.


I'm a Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor.

We are starting at level 2 getting the headbands or belts is quite some time off :P I was hoping to get them to buff my party a bit more as I feel the witch doesn't have a lot of buffing spells (also a little light on the DD TBH) a pure debuffer is a bit boring imho.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
If you are truly opposed to using belts and headbands for some reason you can use the spell research rules to learn them if your GM allows. You can keep getting your character killed and having your companions reincarnate you until you become a Samsaran and then take Mystic Past Life, but that is expensive and extreme.

Belts and headbands are, like, so material dude. You gotta use alternative stat boosts rather than giving in to the belt and headband fat cat tycoons. Stick it to the man, man!


Convince your GM into letting them slide in as a houserule. Preferably by taking in something a little better than cookies, something with substance. Cheesecake?


Research them? Though maybe they're inconsistent with the witch-as-DEbuffer.

Multiclass with Druid?


Witch is "the Debuffer"...so maybe you took the wrong class XD!


These are nifty and fix your problem immediately
Downside is uber expensive for what your wanting XD
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-spell-knowledge


RainyDayNinja wrote:

Based on patron, you could get owl's wisdom, bull's strength, bear's endurance, OR cat's grace. Or if you're playing a Samsaran, the Mystic Past Life trait would let you add spells to your spell list. Otherwise, I don't think there is a way.

What do you need them for?

This is best way without changing classes. The witch can definitely buff if they want to but they need to pick the right patron. Endurance would be best for you as it gives you bear's endurance and mass bear's endurance which helps the whole party with hitpoints and fort saves and gives you a buff to your spells.


Xedrek wrote:

These are nifty and fix your problem immediately

Downside is uber expensive for what your wanting XD
Ring of Spell Knowledge

Linkified.

I asked about that here. I presented my arguments for using the ring to learn spells, but got no love.

Remember, the witch does not know the spell, the familiar does. You run afoul of this in the Familiar section.

Quote:
A witch must commune with her familiar each day to prepare her spells. Familiars store all of the spells that a witch knows, and a witch cannot prepare a spell that is not stored by her familiar.

/cevah


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

+1 with Larkos/RDN.

Note raising your Con (temporary bonus) does not affect saving throw DCs of your hexes or spells. The temporary ability modifier clause only affects spells by RAW and is only cited under int/wis/cha.

Well unless there is a specific rule under Witch Doctor.


Rerednaw wrote:

+1 with Larkos/RDN.

Note raising your Con (temporary bonus) does not affect saving throw DCs of your hexes or spells. The temporary ability modifier clause only affects spells by RAW and is only cited under int/wis/cha.

Well unless there is a specific rule under Witch Doctor.

I believe there is: "A scarred witch doctor uses Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs, number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her hexes normally determined by her Intelligence."

James Jacobs has spoken on the subject but I'm too lazy to look it up. I would imagine you're supposed to use con for hex save dcs. I remember Jacobs specifically saying that bonus spells after 1st level are not covered by this and still rely on int as a way of balancing them.


Cevah wrote:
Xedrek wrote:

These are nifty and fix your problem immediately

Downside is uber expensive for what your wanting XD
Ring of Spell Knowledge

Linkified.

I asked about that here. I presented my arguments for using the ring to learn spells, but got no love.

There's also the problem that "All [rings of spell knowledge] are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters."

So no love for the witch.

Scarab Sages

Orfamay Quest wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Xedrek wrote:

These are nifty and fix your problem immediately

Downside is uber expensive for what your wanting XD
Ring of Spell Knowledge

Linkified.

I asked about that here. I presented my arguments for using the ring to learn spells, but got no love.

There's also the problem that "All [rings of spell knowledge] are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters."

So no love for the witch.

Couldn't you have the Familiar put on the Ring of Spell Knowledge (With the Extra Item Slot feat if necessary) and then it is the Familiar learning the extra spell, which allows it to be cast by the witch?


Imbicatus wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Xedrek wrote:

These are nifty and fix your problem immediately

Downside is uber expensive for what your wanting XD
Ring of Spell Knowledge

Linkified.

I asked about that here. I presented my arguments for using the ring to learn spells, but got no love.

There's also the problem that "All [rings of spell knowledge] are useful only to spontaneous arcane spellcasters."

So no love for the witch.

Couldn't you have the Familiar put on the Ring of Spell Knowledge (With the Extra Item Slot feat if necessary)

No, for several reasons. First, because a typical familiar is not itself a spontaneous arcane spellcaster (the only one I can think of offhand is a faerie dragon). And even a faerie dragon can't teach the spells it itself knows to its witch.

Scarab Sages

Yeah I just reread the rules for the witch, and the witch just stores the spells in the familiar, I was thinking that they taught the spells to the familiar. Just a thought, but misguided.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Larkos wrote:
Rerednaw wrote:

+1 with Larkos/RDN.

Note raising your Con (temporary bonus) does not affect saving throw DCs of your hexes or spells. The temporary ability modifier clause only affects spells by RAW and is only cited under int/wis/cha.

Well unless there is a specific rule under Witch Doctor.

I believe there is: "A scarred witch doctor uses Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs, number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her hexes normally determined by her Intelligence."

James Jacobs has spoken on the subject but I'm too lazy to look it up. I would imagine you're supposed to use con for hex save dcs. I remember Jacobs specifically saying that bonus spells after 1st level are not covered by this and still rely on int as a way of balancing them.

Partially correct, I miss-typed. Under temp ability scores, spell DCs are affected but it doesn't say anything about (Su) hexes.

Maybe RAI, but not RAW. Unless they FAQ's or errated it.
Which means hexes are NOT effected.


This is subject to GM approval of course, but Ultimate Campaign spells out a mechanic for researching a spell. It's pricey and slow, though.


The part I bolded seems to say to me that it should be based on CON. The save DC of a hex is "10 + 1/2 the witch’s level + the witch’s Intelligence modifier." That's normally determined by intelligence so it should be replaced by CON.


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Rerednaw wrote:


Partially correct, I miss-typed. Under temp ability scores, spell DCs are affected but it doesn't say anything about (Su) hexes.

Maybe RAI, but not RAW. Unless they FAQ's or errated it.
Which means hexes are NOT effected.

They FAQed it. There is for all practical purposes no difference between temporary ability modifiers and permanent ones.

FAQ wrote:


Temporary Ability Score Increases and Monster Abilities: Do these affect the DCs of monster and PC supernatural abilities based on those ability scores?
Although the description of temporarily ability score bonuses just refers to increasing spell DCs, that is a legacy of some older game terminology not being updated as new features were added to the rules. Temporary ability score increases should affect supernatural ability DCs based on those ability scores, such as a medusa's gaze attack or a witch's hexes.

Temporary Ability Score Increases vs. Permanent Ability Score Increases: Why do temporary bonuses only apply to some things?
Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do. The section in the glossary was very tight on space and it was not possible to list every single ability score-related game effect that an ability score bones would affect.

The purpose of the temporary ability score ruling is to make it so you don't have to rebuild your character every time you get a bull's strength or similar spell; it just summarizes the most common game effects relative to that ability score.

For example, most of the time when you get bull's strength, you're using it for combat, so the glossary mentions Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, Strength-based weapon damage rolls, CMB, and CMD. It doesn't call out melee attack rolls that use Dex instead of Str (such as when using Weapon Finesse) or situations where your applied Str bonus should be halved or multiplied (such as whith off-hand or two-handed weapons). You're usually not using the spell for a 1 min./level increase in your carrying capacity, so that isn't mentioned there, but the bonus should still apply to that, as well as to Strength checks to break down doors.

Think of it in the same way that a simple template has "quick rules" and "rebuild rules;" they're supposed to create monsters which are roughly equivalent in terms of stats, but the quick rules are a short cut that misses some details compared to using the rebuild rules. Likewise, the temporary ability score rule is intended as a short cut to speed up gameplay, not as the most precise way of applying the bonus.

A temporary ability score bonus should affect all of the same stats and rolls that a permanent ability score bonus does.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well finally! My PFS witch never got the hex DC benefit of temp boosting her int for her entire career. Which is why she saved every penny for the +int headband...and no spell will now offer a larger increase. Figures.

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