Eldritch Heritage -> Wildblooded archetype?


Rules Questions


Is it actually allowed to use a Wildblood archetype like Primal with the Eldritch Heritage feat? Or are those only available to sorcerers and (Imp./Greater) Eldritch Heritage can only be used with the original bloodline powers.


I've never seen anything that says you couldn't..
because the wildblooded changes it to a different bloodline. and doesn't that feat just want you to choose a bloodline based on the skill focus choice?


So you are allowed to choose Eldritch Heritage Primal as a non-sorcerer, even if Primal is considered a sorcerer archetype?


Technically Wildbloods are archetypes, not bloodlines, so RAW; no.


hum right they are technically archetypes I guess.
Probably not then.

Liberty's Edge

By RAW probably not. However, I seriously doubt it would hurt anything if someone had a cool concept.


ShadowcatX wrote:
By RAW probably not. However, I seriously doubt it would hurt anything if someone had a cool concept.

This. Unless it's for PFS, I'd be surprised if a GM told you you can't.


Zwordsman wrote:

hum right they are technically archetypes I guess.

Probably not then.

Technically, Wildblooded is an archetype. But also, technically, Bloodrager is an alternate class for both Sorcerer and Barbarian. Ninja is an alternate class for Rogue, which is why Ninja can take Rogue archetypes, albeit, limited to archetypes that trade the only set of abilities Rogues and Ninja have in common (Uncanny Dodge and IUD). So Ninja can take the Scout, Sanctified Rogue, and other Rogue archetypes that trade out no other Rogue class abilities other than UD and IUD. Therefore, if there is an archetype for either constituent class in one of the "combo classes" from ACG that only relies on changing class abilities that both the standard and alternate class have in common, you'd be able to use it. So, if Bloodrager has the Arcana and the respective class powers just as Sorcerer does (I'm not sure off-hand, I've only skimmed the ACG), then you'd be able to use the archetype. Same goes for Barbarian archetypes that only trade abilities that the Bloodrager also has.


Kazaan wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:

hum right they are technically archetypes I guess.

Probably not then.
Technically, Wildblooded is an archetype. But also, technically, Bloodrager is an alternate class for both Sorcerer and Barbarian. Ninja is an alternate class for Rogue, which is why Ninja can take Rogue archetypes, albeit, limited to archetypes that trade the only set of abilities Rogues and Ninja have in common (Uncanny Dodge and IUD). So Ninja can take the Scout, Sanctified Rogue, and other Rogue archetypes that trade out no other Rogue class abilities other than UD and IUD. Therefore, if there is an archetype for either constituent class in one of the "combo classes" from ACG that only relies on changing class abilities that both the standard and alternate class have in common, you'd be able to use it. So, if Bloodrager has the Arcana and the respective class powers just as Sorcerer does (I'm not sure off-hand, I've only skimmed the ACG), then you'd be able to use the archetype. Same goes for Barbarian archetypes that only trade abilities that the Bloodrager also has.

Except the question is about Eldritch Heritage, is it not?

Silver Crusade

thorin001 wrote:
Technically Wildbloods are archetypes, not bloodlines, so RAW; no.

Wildblooded is an archetype, yes. The question was about the Bloodlines it references and if those Bloodlines are available for selection via this feat.

The only argument I can see against it, is that Wildblooded defines them as Mutated Bloodlines, but the feat only references Bloodlines.
However, as Mutated Bloodlines are Bloodlines, and the feat covers the parent category, I'm inclined to say that argument is weak.


As a GM, I allow Wildblooded bloodlines with Eldritch Heritage, however I can totally see where a GM could rule that you can't.


I guess I misread one of the posts; could have sworn it mentioned Bloodrager.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, they are archetypes, but they are also bloodlines. The Eldritch Heritage feat only checks for the latter, not the former.

Totally rules legal.

EDIT: Is that really true, Kazaan? Can alternate classes really take Core class archetypes?


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@Raving: Of course. Ninja is Rogue, just a Rogue that has more complicated changes than a simple archetype would warrant. This is also why both Samurai and Cavaliers can choose any order; there are no "Cavalier only" or "Samurai only" orders. They have no archetypes that they can share because no Cavalier archetypes replace abilities that Samurai still have and vice versa. Anti-Paladin is also an alternate class, but Paladin archetypes, again, don't have any replacements for abilities that Anti-Paladins retain (iirc. APs have no abilities in common with Paladins; just related mechanics). This is also why, if you have levels in Rogue, for example, you cannot ever take levels in Ninja. It would be equivalent to taking 1 level in Two-Weapon Warrior fighter, and then 1 level of Brawler Fighter to be a Fighter 1/Fighter 1 using two otherwise incompatible archetypes.

So if there is an ACG class that has the same class abilities as one of their constituent class alternates, and those abilities are changed by an archetype, by the principal of mechanical parity, they are entitled to choose that archetype.


thorin001 wrote:
Technically Wildbloods are archetypes, not bloodlines, so RAW; no.

What if you are wildblood with abberant bloodline and then want to Eldritch Heritage into Fey?


Way to necro a 4 year old thread.

If you are a Abberant sorcerer, you may use Eldritch Hertiage to grab Fey, since it isn't a wildblood bloodline.

Do note, there is now a feat in the Ultimate Wilderness book that works as skill focus for the pre-req of Eldritch Hertiage and let's you pick wildblood bloodlines.


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Yes, exotic heritage lets you pick a wildblooded bloodline.


FTR, this was FAQ'd in Feb 2015.

FAQ wrote:

Archetypes and Gaining Powers: If an archetype like wildblooded sorcerer grants new class features like bloodline powers, domain powers, or the like, if I don’t have that archetype, can I use feats like Eldritch Heritage or Believer’s Boon and choose the powers granted by the archetype.

No. These powers only exist for the archetypes that grant them. This is particularly important because in some cases, the archetype might trade out non-parallel features to gain those powers. For example, a fey sorcerer with the wildblooded archetype trades out both her bloodline arcana and her 1st-level power to gain a new 1st-level power, but a non-sorcerer using a feat to gain a 1st-level power never had the bloodline arcana to begin with.

(And then, as SorrySleeping says, Ultimate Wilderness added a feat specifically to let you do it anyway. Not sure what they were thinking.)


I can't tell you what they were thinking when they developed the feat, but I can tell you what I was thinking when I wrote it. ^_^

I thought it was a shame that those abilities were locked away in the archetype, despite theoretically just another set of naturally occurring bloodline options. So I created a feat specifically designed to unlock access to those bloodline options. It's as simple as can be.


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Isabelle Lee wrote:

I can't tell you what they were thinking when they developed the feat, but I can tell you what I was thinking when I wrote it. ^_^

I thought it was a shame that those abilities were locked away in the archetype, despite theoretically just another set of naturally occurring bloodline options. So I created a feat specifically designed to unlock access to those bloodline options. It's as simple as can be.

I definitely like the option you provided for us! Thank you.

Though, if I may? How would you propose we resolve the issue with the Sylvan bloodline, specifically the animal companion it provides at the cost of the 1st level power AND the bloodline arcana?

I've allowed my players to take it as I realize that Exotic Heritage & Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) taken together is effectively the same feat 'tax' as Nature Soul + Animal Ally (both need boon companion afterwards).


I don't have a particular opinion one way or the other, to be honest. Your rationale is perfectly valid. ^_^

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