I have level ten pfs heaven Oracle half elf
The ability is excellent or not very good dependent on opponent. With grace spell you can always get into position. My character is also pretty tough two handed weapon user so that second string is essential
All I play is Oracle's.
My level 16 Oracle of battle in serp sk is OP indeed
Like any class in the right situation at the right time you will seem / be overpowered.
Oracle > Mysteries > Heavens
Awesome Display (Su):
Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).Gnome Oracle 20 chr start - 8th lvl +2 chr, +4 chr headband, Spell focus illusion, Greater spell focus, Heighten spell, rod persistence
Chr= 26 (+8 Bonus) or (-8 levels)
Color Spray(3) DC= 10 + 3 + 8 + 3 = 24 Will Save (roll twice)If your 12 level or lower (Out of Game, Dead, Useless)
If Piazo F-ing Stupid or do they not see that these abilities kill the balance of the game, I would never play this character, because whats the point of always winning with no chance of failure????? Its like playing with loaded dice that always roll natural 20's! Fun, thrill, yeah! I wonder about the people who look for these one trick wonders, like a 5 year old, kind of pathetic.
Am I the only person that thinks this is incredible Cheese, Unfair, unbalanced, and should be outlawed for Living play.
I don't have a problem with it, but I don't believe in calling too many things OP either. I do believe that certain things are OP for certain tables.
If you want op just go Gunslinger and Ninja X with the Double Hackabut.
Use Vanishing Trick to get near the enemy.
Sneak attack them with a double hackabut and the Vital Strike Chain. Since a Double Hackabut deals 2d12 damage by itelf, things start looking really rediculous.
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If you want op just go Gunslinger and Ninja X with the Double Hackabut.
Use Vanishing Trick to get near the enemy.
Sneak attack them with a double hackabut and the Vital Strike Chain. Since a Double Hackabut deals 2d12 damage by itelf, things start looking really rediculous.
But not really.
Double Hackbut
This double-length rifle uses a pair of trunnions to mount its barrel into a swiveling mechanism fastened to a lightweight, two-wheeled carriage.
It takes a full-round action to set up the carriage. The carriage has a hind leg, allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat. Unlike other two-handed firearms, you must fire the double hackbut while it is mounted, or else firing it imparts a –4 penalty on attack rolls and the recoil knocks the wielder prone. A Large or larger creature can fire a double hackbut one size smaller than it is without its mounting as a normal two-handed weapon and without the danger of being knocked prone, but takes the normal penalty for firing an inappropriately sized weapon.
keep in mind that unconcious only applies to 1-2 hd, so aty 26 cha that is lvl 10. once you get to lvl 10 you will find your trick doesn't work so well as you can't raise your cha easily anymore (unless mythic, in which everything is immune to mind affecting etc. (not reall but you will run into problems)) so lvl 12 your cha is 29, +9 hd must be 11 or less, and keep in mind that in general creatures have a higher hd than cr. I'd expect color spray to work till about lvl 8, then too many things will have hd too high.
also 15 foot non selective cone, get some good defenses or die.
If you want op just go Gunslinger and Ninja X with the Double Hackabut.
Use Vanishing Trick to get near the enemy.
Sneak attack them with a double hackabut and the Vital Strike Chain. Since a Double Hackabut deals 2d12 damage by itelf, things start looking really rediculous.
But not really.
Double Hackbut
This double-length rifle uses a pair of trunnions to mount its barrel into a swiveling mechanism fastened to a lightweight, two-wheeled carriage.
It takes a full-round action to set up the carriage. The carriage has a hind leg, allowing the wielder to wheel the device about and immediately prop it for stability during combat. Unlike other two-handed firearms, you must fire the double hackbut while it is mounted, or else firing it imparts a –4 penalty on attack rolls and the recoil knocks the wielder prone. A Large or larger creature can fire a double hackbut one size smaller than it is without its mounting as a normal two-handed weapon and without the danger of being knocked prone, but takes the normal penalty for firing an inappropriately sized weapon.
attatch an immovable rod to the bottom of the rifle itself :P. Works better than a carriage AND it is quicker to set up
I am pretty sure they do have rules against using multiple accounts.
Awesome Display definitely seems like a strong ability, but my girlfriend's PC in Kingmaker has it, and it hasn't really stood out that much since lower levels. She has a +9 Cha, but getting close to monsters wasn't good for her PC's health. I can't say that it wouldn't be a big problem in other games, just that it hasn't been in ours. Maybe the fact most of her levels are in Sorcerer makes going into melee range a little less of an option.
Charisma is great for Bards. My Paladin/Bard has a 28. Once your Charisma gets high enough you start getting 2 bonus spell slots per level, which is a pretty big deal for a Bard. Charisma also factors into some very useful skills like UMD and Intimidate (with Blistering Invective!)
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Hex is single target, I prefer my control to hit everything on the board. Thundercaller means a heavy focus on charisma or your DC will suck meaning you make significant sacrifices in other areas.Yeah, Bards typically suck with high charisma.
Oh wai...
As it happens they do. It is rarely worth it to prioritise Charisma as your best stat. Bards simply do not get enough spell slots to play them like they are primary casters. A level 10 Bard has 1 4th level spell and 3 3rd level spells as a base. That is very few to work with over the course of a day and few of their other abilities work from it. Obviously you are not going to dump it but you rarely need more than a 14 at level 1 and can get buy with less. One of Str or Dex combined with Con are equally important for them.
Bards are not full casters and trying to play them like they were is going to cause you real problems.
Which is fine, unless you're playing an archetype like Thundercaller, Street Performer, Magician, or Sound Striker, all of which have abilities beside their spellcasting that can GREATLY aid allies at the cost of using Bardic Performance, which you get more rounds of, and increase the DC's of, with a higher Charisma score. Heck, a Wand of Fireball is just an "Okay" choice to anyone except a Magician.
Now, I'm not saying that you ALWAYS want sky-high charisma as a bard, and more often than not having 14 or so is fine. But if you want to use some really awesome abilities to their best, you want a massive Charisma score, and Thundercaller, with a ranged, AoE stun (and the ability to grant allies bonus sonic damage with the Discordant Voice feat) that you can use many, MANY times at higher levels, I think it's fair, and even beneficial, to trade something like ranged or melee combat for it. It's archetypes like these that ALLOW you to really abuse having a high Charisma score... plus your enchantment and illusion spells are tougher to resist, which is nice too.
@andreww - The level dip into Oracle actually added a lot of versatility to the PC as she picked up Misfortune and Guiding Star. Awesome Display was also very effective at lower levels. We're 16th level now though.
Meanwhile my Bard, who ended up multiclassing into Paladin, had starting scores like this (17 point buy, human) Str14 Dex14 Con14 Int7 Wis7 Cha18. He's done just fine and produced some amusing RP. I think his Fear spell could be at least as disruptive as "Awesome" Color Spray, but he very rarely uses it (maybe 2-3 times so far in the campaign)
The hypocrisy... it burns.
I would say Awesome Display, in combination with Color Spray, Magical Lineage, Persistent Spell would wreck far more games than Crane Wing ever would...especially in PFS which(Here we go again) features many humanoid opponents.
Persistent Metamagic Rods? Please, I get my Persistent Color Sprays for free off my Magical Lineage and Metamagic Master/Wayang Spellhunter traits.
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Oracle > Mysteries > Heavens
Awesome Display (Su):
Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).Gnome Oracle 20 chr start - 8th lvl +2 chr, +4 chr headband, Spell focus illusion, Greater spell focus, Heighten spell, rod persistence
Chr= 26 (+8 Bonus) or (-8 levels)
Color Spray(3) DC= 10 + 3 + 8 + 3 = 24 Will Save (roll twice)If your 12 level or lower (Out of Game, Dead, Useless)
If Piazo F-ing Stupid or do they not see that these abilities kill the balance of the game, I would never play this character, because whats the point of always winning with no chance of failure????? Its like playing with loaded dice that always roll natural 20's! Fun, thrill, yeah! I wonder about the people who look for these one trick wonders, like a 5 year old, kind of pathetic.
Am I the only person that thinks this is incredible Cheese, Unfair, unbalanced, and should be outlawed for Living play.
Fah rookie
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Which is fine, unless you're playing an archetype like Thundercaller, Street Performer, Magician, or Sound Striker, all of which have abilities beside their spellcasting that can GREATLY aid allies at the cost of using Bardic Performance, which you get more rounds of, and increase the DC's of, with a higher Charisma score. Heck, a Wand of Fireball is just an "Okay" choice to anyone except a Magician.The trouble with doing this as a bard is that they are actually quite MAD. Lets say that you want that starting 20 charisma. That means an array which looks a bit like one of these:
18, 14, 14, 11, 7, 7
18, 12, 12, 12, 11, 7
What do you do as a bard with those sorts of stats? A 7 can go into wisdom which isn't ideal as it is linked to will saves. You can patch that a bit with the irrepressible trait but it is a big weakness. In the first array where does the second seven go? It cant be Con and picking Str or Dex will impact on your combat potential significantly. That pretty much leaves Int. You can again patch that a bit with bardic performance but again you are taking a big hit on skills. The second array has only one dump stat but 12's in str, dex and con are going to mean you do very little other than spellcasting and whatever your archetype brings and you get very few spells per day.
Oh, please, not even Wizards need the 20 Int to start with. Charisma focused Bards certainly don't need the 20, and that makes for several options involving another stat at 16, Wis at 7 and a couple 12s.