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As stated, I'd like the new Inventory Tracking Sheet to wind up a one-season experiment, or a vestigial option rather than universal mandate. I do not like it, at least not as implemented. Some reasons include (but are by no means limited to) the following:
- It's superfluous extra paperwork and paper-waste for a game where there's enough of that already. Occam's Razor has little place in fantasy, but it's an excellent rule for purely bureaucratic issues.
- I found the previous system to be both more coherent and more convenient than this, and I can't be the only one by any stretch of the imagination. In addition to the issues with the new sheet itself, the changes to the Season 5 Chronicles do nothing to help.
- It's something of a 'tax' on players with lots of characters (who should be rewarded if anything, since it means we're prolific players who are better at complementing a wider variety of level ranges and party makeups); not the biggest issue, but still.
- The 25 gp-mark is pretty arbitrary in practice, it leaves MANY things unaccounted for that could nonetheless add up (I used to play with someone whose Alchemist character carried so many extra vials of acid and alchemist's fire around that he nearly blew himself up when one of his bombs ricocheted back at him - funny story, and my powers of OOC improv might have saved his life, but it's for another day; anyways, that would have been at least a few hundred gold, more if he didn't brew them himself, that would not have shown up on these sheets since each unit costs fewer than 25 gp), and I could see it leading to some odd trends that would otherwise never have occurred (such as a spike in mighty warriors choosing 15/20-gp heavy flails and greataxes over 50/75-gp greatswords and falchions).
- The intent of its utility, as I understand it, is to concentrate purchases in one space and save time leafing through Chronicles, but this is kind of blunted by the fact that these sheets, too, get filled up and have to be piled on eventually; also, doesn't it kind of buck the point of "Chronicles?" They're supposed to track your progress through time in salient increments - these just wind up smushing everything together and make bookkeeping harder. A DM who wants to track a character's ability to buy things will STILL wind up having to leaf through their Chronicles and check exactly when they bought them and how much gold/Fame they had at the time, not to mention Chronicle-exclusive items, and as referenced above, Season 5 Chronicles no longer offer the bookkeeping sections they used to have - so as far as I can tell, this whole arrangement serves only to stymie the operation it was created to improve.
This is a petition; if you're at all with me on this, your own comments are welcome, as is your signature. If you're not, all you need to do is not sign it - I didn't come here for a flamewar.
/signed
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You do realize that the its hasn't changed the amount of paperwork and accounting, correct?
All it is, is what used to be on the chronicles but now just a separate page. They needed the extra room on the chronicle to make extra cool chronicle.
If we go back to the old chronicles (not old system, because the system hasn't changed) then the chronicles would go back to the old ones everyone complained about.
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This information was already supposed to be tracked on the chronicle sheets, which often times left little to no room to do it. Now, it's a separate sheet (or sheets, depending on the character.)
There are some campaign-centered reasons to have the system as it was implemented in season 5:
1. It makes the equipment portion of an audit easier (in my opinion);
2. It makes the purchases far more visible (the old chronicle sheets often times did not have room for purchases);
3. It is flexible - that is, I believe the campaign management folks said that you don't have to use the specific tracking sheet they put out, but whatever you use has to at least have that information.
4. It can help uncover mistakes in equipment (related to #1, above.)
In an attempt to be constructive, could I ask you what your alternative would be? Would it be to return to the way it was done prior to season 5? Would you have a different season in place? I am honestly curious as to what you would have as a system instead.
Mark
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The sheet is less work.
It allows you to track all purchases in one spot.
Indeed, it is. You are correct.
Let me also reiterate something I said back when the hatred if the ITS started last Gen Con.
If you haven't been tracking your purchases. Then you have always been doing it wrong.
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The tracking sheet allowed me to remove the items purchased/items sold boxes and expand the main Chronicle sheet's text box. This has enabled me to create Chronicle sheets chock full of boons, new items, and items found. Even when a scenario's rewards require less space, it allows me to include a space dedicated to notes.
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I'm on my phone and don't have the guide on me, but I understood you had to record purchases on the ITS and the chronicles.
I believe all you need to record on the Chronicle sheet is the AMOUNT you spend; the item breakdown of WHAT you buy is what goes on the ITS.
And, as I recall, you don't have to use that specific form of the ITS, but if you make your own or whatever, it has to contain at least that information. I think that's what I read.
Mark
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The tracking sheet allowed me to remove the items purchased/items sold boxes and expand the main Chronicle sheet's text box. This has enabled me to create Chronicle sheets chock full of boons, new items, and items found. Even when a scenario's rewards require less space, it allows me to include a space dedicated to notes.
The expanded boons and cool items have been noticed and appreciated throughout the season. Nearly every time we get a sheet now, somebody sees something they like or that they suggest to another player, "Hey, with your malady, couldn't you use that ring of inner fortitude?" one player said to another just after my last game. Both players are experienced players who know about all the supplements, both players knew about the malady, and both players I'm sure had the fame for the ring even if it wasn't on the sheet. But seeing that non-standard item on the sheet sparked creativity and a new idea.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'm on my phone and don't have the guide on me, but I understood you had to record purchases on the ITS and the chronicles.
The ITS contains the list of items purchased/sold and their prices. The chronicle contains the sum total of those purchases as part of the calculation of your total gold, along the right-hand edge of the chronicle.
So if I bought a pearl of power I, a potion of fly, and a belt of giant strength +2, I would list each of those and their prices on the ITS, and then I'd write "5,750gp" in the gold spent (or whatever it's called) box on the right-hand side of the chronicle.
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Hmmm, having only played one Season 5 scenario I hadn't twigged that you didn't need to detail individual purchases on the Chronicle sheet itself anymore.
That does raise a question though - if I buy a Starknife (24gp), Longsword (15gp) and Hide Armour (15gp), those purchases don't get detailed anywhere? There would just be a discrepancy between the GP spent on the Chronicle sheet and the Purchases on the Inventory Sheet of 54 gp, with no way to reconcile it?
Could that possibly lead to a player cheating by declaring that he actually has a Heavy Flail and not a Longsword when he realises the scenario will involve fighting lots of Skeletons with DR/Bludgeoning?
Not really an issue for me as if a player really wants to cheat as long as it doesn't ruin the other players' fun I am not bothered (though I don't condone it, but I also don't waste time auditing chronicle sheets).
Personally, I like to track all my purchases (including those below 25gp) and so will continue to write on the Chronicle Sheets all my purchases and list just the 25gp+ stuff (plus ammo) on the Inventory sheet.
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The sheet is less work.
It allows you to track all purchases in one spot.
I also like this feature and I put EVERYTHING I buy on it on individual lines regardless of the cost. I have some characters that are up to 2 sheets. Its not that much extra effort and the payback is large IMO.
I carry extra blank ITSs around for games that I run. I run across many new players who have not heard of the concept and dont have one for their characters.
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Just want to add my voice to the 'I love the ITS' chorus.
It means I don't have to clutter up my character sheet *or* my chronicle sheets with individual purchases.
It also makes it a lot easier to track usage of consumables. And makes it very clear which consumables you aren't using, if you like knowing those things. I can now tell you, for instance, that my *most* used consumable is Impact Foam. Kind of crazy how many times falling damage comes into play.
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I'm very much in favor of the new ITS - it has made keeping track of things for my characters much easier. One page (often front and back) has everything and I use the boxed section at the bottom to keep track of ammo.
In two different games I've seen (one played and one GM'd), I've found level 5 PCs with over 80,000gp in wealth (you have a greatsword +4???), and in both cases the players had no ITS. I felt like if they were using an ITS, then it would have been a lot easier to sort out what happened to these PCs (in both cases they had chronicles where they took 10-11 subtier gold for their level 1-2 XP).
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I also like this feature and I put EVERYTHING I buy on it on individual lines regardless of the cost. I have some characters that are up to 2 sheets.
Hmmm, would any GMs have issue with Inventory Sheets being used to track every purchase regardless of cost? Even if that means taking up more sheets?
If not, would GMs have issue with a printout of an Excel spreadsheet that listed everything? All my characters are in Excel and I have just started to use a Log worksheet that details all purchases, sales, uses and rewards (including GP awards).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I also like this feature and I put EVERYTHING I buy on it on individual lines regardless of the cost. I have some characters that are up to 2 sheets.Hmmm, would any GMs have issue with Inventory Sheets being used to track every purchase regardless of cost? Even if that means taking up more sheets?
Something I've recently started doing is if I'm buying multiple small items whose total would exceed 25gp, I just put a "Misc" line with the total for all such purchases for that transaction.
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I love the Inventory Tracking Sheets and have adopted them for my homegame characters as well. Phenomenally useful, and breezily auditable.
Pro Tip: Use a separate sheet to track consumables that you replace, and just mark them bought and expended on that sheet, leaving the original on your standard sheet.
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I know I'm not in the majority here, but many players in my area generally dislike the ITS. With regular reminders that they need to track purchases, most have gotten in the habit of using the backs of chronicle sheets for itemized lists of what they bought (using the space on the front for larger-price-tag items), and they see the ITS as creating a higher likelihood of losing track of gold (either spending more than they have or not realizing they have as much as they should).
If chronicle sheets were two-sided, the whole thing could be used for "items sold / items bought / net gold / etc" and it could be the best of both worlds - open space for more boons/stuff on chronicle sheets *and* inventory/expenditure tracking all in one document.
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If chronicle sheets were two-sided, the whole thing could be used for "items sold / items bought / net gold / etc" and it could be the best of both worlds - open space for more boons/stuff on chronicle sheets *and* inventory/expenditure tracking all in one document.
Considering I store my characters and chronicle sheets in sheet protectors in a three-ringed binder, and put pages back-to-back, this method does not work for me - it would mean that I would have to remove all those sheets any time a GM wanted to verify them or whatever. Now, the only sheets I need to remove are the ITS themselves.
But, your system would work for some people, probably.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Jarl Rukk included his pack mule and each of the seven that came before on his Inventory Tracking Sheet.
While it was not required by the laws of his people, he thought it wise to ensure that there would be no discrepancies in his wealth when it came time for Eyes of the Ten.
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If chronicle sheets were two-sided, the whole thing could be used for "items sold / items bought / net gold / etc" and it could be the best of both worlds - open space for more boons/stuff on chronicle sheets *and* inventory/expenditure tracking all in one document.Considering I store my characters and chronicle sheets in sheet protectors in a three-ringed binder, and put pages back-to-back, this method does not work for me - it would mean that I would have to remove all those sheets any time a GM wanted to verify them or whatever. Now, the only sheets I need to remove are the ITS themselves.
But, your system would work for some people, probably.
I do the same, but with ~20 characters (...I have a lot of GM credit, okay? don't look at me like that...) my play-binder is already pretty thick, and when you have multiple ITS sheets, you're pulling them out of the sleeves anyway.
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I know I'm not in the majority here, but many players in my area generally dislike the ITS. With regular reminders that they need to track purchases, most have gotten in the habit of using the backs of chronicle sheets for itemized lists of what they bought (using the space on the front for larger-price-tag items), and they see the ITS as creating a higher likelihood of losing track of gold (either spending more than they have or not realizing they have as much as they should).
If chronicle sheets were two-sided, the whole thing could be used for "items sold / items bought / net gold / etc" and it could be the best of both worlds - open space for more boons/stuff on chronicle sheets *and* inventory/expenditure tracking all in one document.
There is absolutely no reason a GM couldn't print out Chronicle sheets with an ITS on the back, if that's what works better for their players locally.
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There is absolutely no reason a GM couldn't print out Chronicle sheets with an ITS on the back, if that's what works better for their players locally.
Right. I think this may be the best solution, honestly. Around here, we have a GM that prints the "after session" stuff on the back of the chronicle sheet (day job roll check, list of always available items, etc.) It's very handy.
What you are suggesting is akin to that. It doesn't work for me, but if people locally decide this works for them, I think it's fine.
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I have found it to be quite helpful to have the ITSs for my characters, including my gunslinger.
Typically, at the table, I pull out my character sheets and Inventory Tracking Sheets. Then, I can see what I have in consumables. I've taken to using Kyle Baird'smodified sheet for ammunition/wand tracking (Thanks Kyle!). Now that it has been mentioned, I am going to start keeping a separate sheet (or sheets) for all consumables, with the durable goods on their own. This will keep the searching for that last holy water vial simpler!
I would hate to do this on the backs of 30+ chronicles. Having these separated out is actually a boon to me!
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I was vehemently against the ITS when it was rolled out, and some veterans in my area still are, but I've grown to love them since.
Only 2 of my 12 characters have more than one sheet: my 15th level Rogue (whose 2nd sheet lists mundane trap- and forgery-related items), and my 4th level Ranger (whose 2nd sheet on one side I use for arrows, and the other side for his Animal Companion).
I also write down every purchase. If I have "Alkali Flask x2" written down on my ITS, and I use one, then on that session's Chronicle in the notes section I write "replenished 1 Alkali Flask" so I don't need to keep filling out new lines on the ITS.
But, ultimately, if you're a GM who needs to audit 6 characters, you're the one that will wish they all had ITSs.
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But, ultimately, if you're a GM who needs to audit 6 characters, you're the one that will wish they all had ITSs.
If I do a quick audit the information I want is actually fairly hard and time consuming to acquire.
Total money gained
Total value of current equipment
That is the information I'd like to see tracked
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I haven't done an Alchemist yet, and I forgot they can craft in PFS. Perhaps if I make one I will have to adapt something similar to what you've done.
But, most of those items are under 25gp, especially if you receive a discount to craft them, so technically you don't need to write them down at all.
Anything more than nothing is something.
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I was vehemently against the ITS when it was rolled out, and some veterans in my area still are, but I've grown to love them since.
Only 2 of my 12 characters have more than one sheet: my 15th level Rogue (whose 2nd sheet lists mundane trap- and forgery-related items), and my 4th level Ranger (whose 2nd sheet on one side I use for arrows, and the other side for his Animal Companion).
I also write down every purchase. If I have "Alkali Flask x2" written down on my ITS, and I use one, then on that session's Chronicle in the notes section I write "replenished 1 Alkali Flask" so I don't need to keep filling out new lines on the ITS.
But, ultimately, if you're a GM who needs to audit 6 characters, you're the one that will wish they all had ITSs.
bolding above mine.
I was under the impression that you had to mark the item as Used and create a new line in the ITS when you bought (or crafted) a new one. One line per item.
this has been my problem with the ITS - esp. for my Alchemist PCs. Also, often I craft 6 of a selected item (for example 6 vials of anti-toxin) at one time, but they may not all get used at once (though maybe - as I will give these out to my party and ask them to drink them before a dungeon crawl - I'll give them another in an hour if still in the adventure). This results in 6 lines on the ITS needed, so that I can mark each vial as it is used. In one game I might use 30 or 40 (or more) alchemical items that have been crafted over 3 or more games before - so I thought that each of those needed thier own line, and each of the 40 or so items I just crafted this game would need thiers... 80 lines on the ITS for each game. Where before I just marked what I had in pencil on my inventory sheet, subtracted (with pencil) those used, and added those crafted, and marked the crafted ones on the chronicle (with the cost).
If I can just mark the "crafted replacements - cost" it would be a great time savings. Is this allowed?
I'd use an ammunition entry when you craft multiples, and then check off the boxes. Say you crafted 5 of item 'X' one scenario, and then 7 more in another, that would be two entries of ammunition. There is a modified sheet (Kyle Baird's, I think) with just ammunition entries on it.
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DigitalMage: You still track the gold spent on your Chronicle, so there's no real issue. Yes, someone can cheat and say they have a flail instead of a longsword, but they can do that now - no one audits PC's to that level of detail.
The ITS has stopped a lot of unintentional cheating with regards to consumables, etc. and made life easier for GMs who do need to check something out on a character sheet in-play. It only enforced a format on what people should have been doing anyway, so there shouldn't be extra work involved.
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Buying 2-3 potions a session runs through a sheet in less than a level.
The standard ITS has 32 entries for single items. That would last 3 levels if you actually purchased 2-3 potions per scenario and recorded them in the least efficient method possible.
6 of them for one character = 200 distinct items.
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The tracking sheet allowed me to remove the items purchased/items sold boxes and expand the main Chronicle sheet's text box. This has enabled me to create Chronicle sheets chock full of boons, new items, and items found. Even when a scenario's rewards require less space, it allows me to include a space dedicated to notes.
Every Chronicle sheet that I have ever seen has a blank, unused, backside. Many players simply have a stack of sheets. Some dedicated players, or just call us crazy, place chronicles in page protectors.
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Another huge benefit with the ITS is that it allows you to buy/sell items between games now. You just mark the items down on your ITS and mark the gold on your next Chronicle sheet.
This, of course, assumes that your GMs are following the process explained in the PFS Guide as to how to fill out Chronicle sheets.
How many of your GMs just fill out your Chronicle sheet and sign it before you add your information to the top and complete ALL the numbers on the right?
RAW, they are not supposed to sign your Chronicles until everything is filled in and they have verified it along with your ITS.
When I was a VC I would check each player's Chronicle stack and all too often, I found sheets with nothing but what the GM wrote on them. The player would inevitably say that no one had ever told them how to fill out a Chronicle sheet.
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Buying 2-3 potions a session runs through a sheet in less than a level.The standard ITS has 32 entries for single items.
That would last 3 levels if you actually purchased 2-3 potions per scenario and recorded them in the least efficient method possible.
6 of them for one character = 200 distinct items.
Potions you drink regularly don't work well on the ITS as single use items, since you have to record when they get used as well.
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Potions you drink regularly don't work well on the ITS as single use items, since you have to record when they get used as well.Buying 2-3 potions a session runs through a sheet in less than a level.The standard ITS has 32 entries for single items.
That would last 3 levels if you actually purchased 2-3 potions per scenario and recorded them in the least efficient method possible.
6 of them for one character = 200 distinct items.
I treat those no differently than 15gp Alkali Flasks.
"Replenished 2 potions of Enlarge Person - 100gp"
If it was something expensive, that I only carry one of, then I'll cross it off if I didn't replenish it, like a Salve of Slipperiness or something.
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This, of course, assumes that your GMs are following the process explained in the PFS Guide as to how to fill out Chronicle sheets.
Which I've seen done I think once, because at the start of the adventure you don't have the chronicle sheet to write anything down on, and at the end you don't have time to shop.
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This, of course, assumes that your GMs are following the process explained in the PFS Guide as to how to fill out Chronicle sheets.Which I've seen done I think once, because at the start of the adventure you don't have the chronicle sheet to write anything down on, and at the end you don't have time to shop.
Also difficult to do at conventions when time-slots and table turnover sometimes become issues (or game days where people have to leave / store closes right after play ends).
I don't dislike what the ITS does, mind you - I just always found it easier to put purchases on the bottom/back of a chronicle sheet and be able to total up my gold there (and put pre-adventure purchases for the next game also on the back so the GM could sign off on them when that game's chronicle gets passed out).
But, as with all things, time will tell - I'm also in the minority with herolab (don't like it and don't want or plan on using it, even when I was a VO), and what works or doesn't work for me doesn't mean that it's the same for anyone else. If the ITS is good for most of PFS, I'll just have to adapt.
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This, of course, assumes that your GMs are following the process explained in the PFS Guide as to how to fill out Chronicle sheets.Which I've seen done I think once, because at the start of the adventure you don't have the chronicle sheet to write anything down on, and at the end you don't have time to shop.
I do not believe "running out of time" is an acceptable excuse for not filling out the Chronicle sheet properly. For venues with a hard stop time, play must be stopped with enough time left to complete the Chronicle sheets - unless the group will meet later to finish the adventure, of course.
The ITS allows players to shop later and record the gold on their next Chronicle. So GMs have less reason now to ignore the correct way to complete Chronicle sheets.
Full disclosure:
I only had 1 GM ever require the Chronicle to be completely filled out before they would sign it. And that was in 2009.
When the ITS was started, it was clear that PFS leadership wanted us to follow the process explained in the PFS Guide. So, as a GM, I would not sign Chronicles, until they were completely filled in. When I got home from GenCon, I went back to just signing the sheets and handing them out because that Fall I saw none of the other GMs in my area following the process in the PFS Guide.
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I do not believe "running out of time" is an acceptable excuse for not filling out the Chronicle sheet properly. For venues with a hard stop time, play must be stopped with enough time left to complete the Chronicle sheets - unless the group will meet later to finish the adventure, of course.This, of course, assumes that your GMs are following the process explained in the PFS Guide as to how to fill out Chronicle sheets.Which I've seen done I think once, because at the start of the adventure you don't have the chronicle sheet to write anything down on, and at the end you don't have time to shop.
Having a lot less play time in order to do things "properly" seems to be a poor trade off. The bridge between properly and standard operating procedure is only going to grow the more complicated properly becomes.
Players know their own names, PFS numbers. They can add and subtract as well as i can (better i hope...) Nothing I do to a sheet is going to prevent them from going home and altering it later. They also know what they want to buy and can check its legality just as well as I can.
Splitting play simply isn't an option. Your chances of getting the same exact group back in consecutive meetings with no more and no less seems a little low.