Hey Guys,
I'm trying to build a mounted gnome paladin with the focus on him not getting killed for PFS. I usually play at my local game-store which has a reputation for killing off characters, so survivability should probably take a bit higher priority than other venues. I'd also really like to cast spells at higher levels, unless you guys really think I can't. (probably with the help of a headband)
Here is what I am thinking for stats:
Str:13 (7 points) (4th level ability increase goes here)
Dex: 12 (2 points)
Con: 14 (2 points)
Int: 12 (2 points)
Wis: 10
Chr: 17 (7 points) (8th level ability increase goes here)
Feats: Mounted combat (planning to take spirited charge line to 5th level, then power attack at 7th)
Traits: Reactive (+2 initiative), blessed touch (+1 hit point per curative effect used)
Skills:Diplomacy, Ride, Handle animal. Will use two favored class bonuses to get 1 rank in sense motive and knowledge religion.
Any thoughts? I could drop diplomacy and then dump int down to 10, which would let me raise my wisdom to 12 and let me cast spells without a headband for most of his PFS life. Or I could give up on casting spells and dump wisdom down to 7. This would allow me to raise my constitution and maybe my strength. Is the strength too low? I plan on riding a riding dog till 5th level and then getting a small cat as my bonded mount (sprint seems useful! )
Thanks in advance for your help!
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
If you want enhance your character's survival...Fey Foundling is a 1st level only feat you may wish to consider.
Or if you can give up being a gnome, halflings have a nice favored class option (+1/2 hp with lay on hands).
Your character has a decent con and is picking one of the sturdiest classes (good saves, class features and hp). I'd expect your 'killer gamestore' GMs more likely to target your mount. How's that riding dog's Will save against Color Spray?
You could drop your charisma to 14(16). That would free a few points to bump up your wisdom if you want to cast spells. Also it would allow for either be str or cha to end with an even stat at level 12.
Gnomes have the same favored class option.
Also, you could get the best of both worlds if you took eldritch heritage to get a mount, and got the weapon bond as well (or in case of divine servant, still get a mount).
Paladins cast from Charisma not wisdom so you will not need to raise Charisma.
For suvivability I would look into dropping strength to 12 and raising your con and IQ by 1 (then use the level 4 to increase con to 16).
Paladins use Charisma to cast spells in Pathfinder, not Wisdom.
I'd tweak your stats to look more like this:
15/12/14/10/8/16
That's still good survivability, plus better offensive power (I'd also recommend taking Power Attack before you go into the Mounted Combat stuff, since you won't get your class feature mount until level 5 anyway).
The only thing you lack is skills, which can hurt a lot in PFS. Not to mention, I recommend against playing a Paladin in PFS, since many missions require you to lie, cheat, and steal to get it done. But if that doesn't bother you, go for it.
How did I miss that they are charisma based casters now! Wisdom, prepare to be dump-stated.
The gnome favored class option looks incredable. As long as I don't get one-shotted, having a +1 to each time I heal myself seems a lot better than +2 hitpoints.
Getting Fay Foundling or Power attack at first level seems to be good advice. I'll think about which one to get. I suppose I might have enough defense, and power attack might be the way to go? Although +2 hp per die healed, seems like nothing would ever kill me, at least while I still have lay on hands available and I am not somehow incapacitated.
So how does this look for stats, then?
Str:15 (13 points) (8th level increase goes here)
Dex:12 (2 points)
Con:14 (2 points)
Int: 10
Wis:7 (-4 points)
Chr:17 (7 points) (4th level increase goes here)
Skills: Handle animal and ride: I'll just headband diplomacy when I need it later on.
Feats: Power attack/fay foundling then spirited charge line.
Traits: Reactive (+2 initiative), blessed touch (+1 hit point per curative effect used)
The Will save hurts, but I'll raise my charisma earlier to compensate, and it is still going to be higher than many folks in the party.
How do the traits look?
Which bloodline gets an animal companion? I'm trying to decide if the loss of two feats is worth it.
Thanks again, guys.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Airwhale wrote: How did I miss that they are charisma based casters now! Wisdom, prepare to be dump-stated.
The gnome favored class option looks incredable. As long as I don't get one-shotted, having a +1 to each time I heal myself seems a lot better than +2 hitpoints.
Getting Fay Foundling or Power attack at first level seems to be good advice. I'll think about which one to get. I suppose I might have enough defense, and power attack might be the way to go? Although +2 hp per die healed, seems like nothing would ever kill me, at least while I still have lay on hands available and I am not somehow incapacitated.
So how does this look for stats, then?
Str:15 (13 points) (8th level increase goes here)
Dex:12 (2 points)
Con:14 (2 points)
Int: 10
Wis:7 (-4 points)
Chr:17 (7 points) (4th level increase goes here)
Skills: Handle animal and ride: I'll just headband diplomacy when I need it later on.
Feats: Power attack/fay foundling then spirited charge line.
Traits: Reactive (+2 initiative), blessed touch (+1 hit point per curative effect used)
The Will save hurts, but I'll raise my charisma earlier to compensate, and it is still going to be higher than many folks in the party.
How do the traits look?
Which bloodline gets an animal companion? I'm trying to decide if the loss of two feats is worth it.
Thanks again, guys.
Doh forgot about pallys being cha casters.
Your stat array is fine. Personally I am not a fan of dump stats but it is more optimal in your case.
I checked the PRD for gnome favored class options under the APG. Didn't mention anything about paladins so if that is their bonus by all means stick with gnome.
I believe since you want survivability Fey Foundling > Power Attack.
Fey Foundling MUST be taken as your first level feat. You cannot take it after first. The +2 bonus on death saves is just gravy. Though avoid getting hit by cold iron :)
A static add that scales (since it is per die) is very welcome. Nothing sadder than rolling that 6d6 and getting all 1's. I've seen it.
ISWG P.286 wrote:
Source Inner Sea World Guide pg. 286, Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 80
You were found in the wilds as a child, bearing a mark of the First World.
Prerequisites: You may only select this feat at 1st level.
Benefit: Your strange connection to the First World...
Also another reason is you don't really need Power Attack at first level.
Regarding traits: I would ditch Blessed Touch. Fey Foundling plus gnome favored = +3 points per DIE. The Blessed Touch trait only grants a flat +1 hp. You mentioned about being worried about your low Will save...you could take something like Indomitable Faith which is a +1 to Will saves. Or Eyes and Ears of the City to get Perception+1 as a class skill.
Happy gaming!
I would avoid putting 13 points into strength.
You take a -2 on strength so the return on investment is just not there.
If you only go to 13 str you save 6 points and still qualify for power attack.
Those 6 points I would probably put 3 into Con (16 con) take advantage of your +2 for being a gnome.
Raise wisdom to at least 8 (a -2 on perception hurts).
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
If you are going to dump wis, leave it at 7.
You get -2 on perception and -2 on will saves.
But at level 2 you gain +3 on all saves (class ability) so you are still ahead.
And the perception penalty is easily countered by a trait. +3 for being a class skill with another +1 bonus from the trait is a net +2 above a paladin that didn't dump wisdom and doesn't take it as a class skill.
Go with what works for you and of course most importantly, have fun.
Full plate armor encumberance, even having half weight your weight capacity is 3/4, so be carefull about that.
I suggest the 16/14/14/12/10/8 array
16-2 str 12+2con 14 dex 8 int 10 wis 14+2 cha
if you don't have a minium str you don't hit and the monsters will ignore you and kill you when you are the only one left. you can even change con-dex if you won't use more than +1 dex modifier 16-2/12/14+2/8/10/14+2
Going halfling allows you to have 16 dex and 12 con (inverted stats with gnome)
Don't drop your will save, that's another suggestion ^^
Gotcha. I feel like I do need at least a 14 strength, and I think taking Fay Foundling at 1st lets me keep my constitution at 14 without dieing. I don't know... I feel like 8 hit points per level is enough, particularly with all of my lay on hands.
So we are looking at this then:
Str:15 (13 points) (8th level increase goes here)
Dex:12 (2 points)
Con:14 (2 points)
Int: 10
Wis:7 (-4 points)
Chr:17 (7 points) (4th level increase goes here)
Skills: Handle animal and ride: I'll just headband diplomacy when I need it later on.
Feats: 1st: Fay foundling, 3rd: Power attack 5th-9th:spirited charge line, 11th: Improved Critical, lance
Traits: Excitable (+2 initiative), Second chance (can reroll one saving throw once per day)
I feel comfortable with my will save being lower with second chance selected... It is still higher than the average fighters will save, and being able to roll twice will help even after I pump up the save with my charisma item and resistance robe. I'm okay not being very perceptive... I think it could have fun roll-play opportunities.
Thanks again for all of the advice guys.
Gotcha. I feel like I do need at least a 14 strength, and I think taking Fay Foundling at 1st lets me keep my constitution at 14 without dieing. I don't know... I feel like 8 hit points per level is enough, particularly with all of my lay on hands.
So we are looking at this then:
Str:15 (13 points) (8th level increase goes here)
Dex:12 (2 points)
Con:14 (2 points)
Int: 10
Wis:7 (-4 points)
Chr:17 (7 points) (4th level increase goes here)
Skills: Handle animal and ride. I'll get diplomacy up to about a +10 bonus and then use honeyed tounge as a wand.
Feats: 1st: Fay foundling, 3rd: Power attack 5th-9th:spirited charge line, 11th: Improved Critical, lance
Traits: Excitable (+2 initiative), Second chance (can reroll one saving throw once per day)
I feel comfortable with my will save being lower with second chance selected... It is still higher than the average fighters will save, and being able to roll twice will help even after I pump up the save with my charisma item and resistance robe. I'm okay not being very perceptive... I think it could have fun roll-play opportunities.
Thanks again for all of the advice guys.
I've been playing a Halfling Beastmaster Ranger Charger...Having a blast. Spirited Charge by 3rd level and a Giant Gecko Mount after the First adventure when I got the Gold to buy it.
If your Playing a Paladin Charger you could do with a purchased War trained Mount and ride it till it Dies on you. Most DMs try not to kill your mount too much so Mounted combat keeps him alive if targeted.
The sad thing about Paladin Mount bond is the limited selection of Mounts you get to choose from.
Quote: This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6. The DMs in the area I play would not allow me to be a Paladin with a Bonded Gecko Or Roc because they only allow the listed animals:
Heavy horse, Pony, boar, camel, or dog.
To me that's dull and boring. I had to figure out how to get my Lancer on a real exotic mount. But I wanted the mount to be a companion and just just a bought animal with 1 feat and under 20 HP. So for Now I bought a Giant War train Giant Gecko till I get the Animal companion. only costs 150g for the mount and 60g for a Exotic Military Saddle to put on it. Comes out to 210g which is easily affordable. I'm still deciding on if I'm going to Make a giant Gecko my Companion or get myself a Roc and fly around. Flight is superior but the flavor and sheer terror of a charger climbing walls and hanging from the ceiling is just funny and gets tons of laughs at the table.
Secondly I just dislike how Skill starved a Paladin is for PFS. PFS has a lot of skill use and I would feel left out when ever outside combat if I only got the skills Handle animal and Ride. I wanted more...Ranger gave me 6 skills from a larger list. Not to mention Perception as a class skill.
Thirdly The paladin Code. This is a huge area of miss interpretation when it comes to Conduct. Someone mentioned people like to bluff, steal, and do shady things to accomplish the goals of the Grand Lodge. Not all pathfinders are on the straight and Narrow. If your going to be playing a paladin make sure you talk to your area's DMs and find out a general Paladin code they expect...it is their decision when and if you fall from grace. Some might see you turning a blind eye to law breaking by your party to be "sinful and shameful" and might punish you for it by making your alignment swing to neutral-ish. The cost of Atonement will quickly add up if the DMs are picky about your behavior. But then again I have heard of Players playing a Charismatic Ladies man paladin that spreads free love and uses his immunity to disease to sleep with everyone and everything. Not an evil thing but not a clean and pure thing either...see how it can be a razors edge to justify your actions and behavior in character.
Also some things to consider about the Mount itself.
Pushing an animal inside a aura of a creature is difficult...I recommend the mount have Valiant Steed Feat so you can enter the larger area auras of creatures.
The teamwork feat Escape route is just plain fun when taken by mount and rider....You don't provoke while you charge through threatened areas. Pure Gold as a feat goes.
Also Bodyguard is a notable feat to help improve your AC when you get targeted on the back of your mount.
Paladins are great, and I highly recommend playing a small smiting spirited charger. Puts the big bad in the ground before the fight can even start. The nice thing about Paladins is that even when your feat support is all into mounted combat and lance feats, you're still effective even when not mounted because smite evil is so strong.
One thing I might recommend is 3-4 levels in Weapon Master fighter for Weapon Mastery/Gloves of Dueling, weapon specialization, and a few feats. It really brings your character up to speed quickly and allows you to work in some feats you might not otherwise get to use.
Also, I'd consider Oath of Vengeance as a paladin option. Especially if you multiclass fighter for a few levels, you don't lose any cool high-level paladin stuff.
Feats not to overlook:
Wheeling Charge (charge through allies, you can turn while charging)
Mounted Blade
Indomitable Mount (make ride checks instead of your mount's saving throws)
Items not to overlook:
Horseshoes of a Zephyr (charge over difficult terrain, rivers, lakes, lava, and so on)
Gloves of Dueling
You might also consider dumping some PA into buying potions of fly to feed your mount.
In my experience, the paladin code of conduct thing is generally overblown. I've never once run into an issue with it, and I've played Paladins back in the days of Living Greyhawk and Pathfinder.
Also, familiarize yourself with the rules of overrun, or trample, or whatever it's called. Basically it lets you bowl over enemies while you're mounted, but I can't remember how that interacts with charge. I also recommend BUYING a pony and still having your conjurable mount. That way you ride the purchased pony until you have to climb the cliff that always gets thrown in and messes up most mounted characters. Then, at the top of the cliff, summon your celestial mount. Problem solved.
Quote: Also, familiarize yourself with the rules of overrun, or trample, or whatever it's called. Basically it lets you bowl over enemies while you're mounted, but I can't remember how that interacts with charge. I also recommend BUYING a pony and still having your conjurable mount. That way you ride the purchased pony until you have to climb the cliff that always gets thrown in and messes up most mounted characters. Then, at the top of the cliff, summon your celestial mount. Problem solved Quote: Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.
He Will be a Gnome and will limit him to Large creatures and smaller but you will be on a medium mount and a Overrun uses the Mounts CMB to attempt the over run....Not the best of luck on medium mounts with lower Str scores.
Quote: Trample (Combat)
While mounted, you can ride down opponents and trample them under your mount.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets
I recommend as a small Charger on a medium mount to Avoid the Overrun/Trample. Your not going to see as much use as the Larger Chargers with stronger larger mounts will get out of the feat. Not to mention You have to get Power attack then improved overrun on the mount and pick up trample on the character....that is 3 feats for little damage added because of a medium sized mount.
So basically your investing in 2 feats on the mount and 1 in the character to achieve 1 extra hoof attack....I don't see it being worth it on a small character to dip that heavy.
Quote: I also recommend BUYING a pony and still having your conjurable mount. That way you ride the purchased pony until you have to climb the cliff that always gets thrown in and messes up most mounted characters. Then, at the top of the cliff, summon your celestial mount. Problem solved I Still recommend Buying a combat trained Giant Gecko for 150 gold....Avoid the climb up the cliff and the dangers of failing the skill check by riding the climbing Gecko up the cliff. Summon your mount when you need it and leave your Giant gecko parked to return and collect when your leaving.
|
