Goblinworks Game Designer
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@devs
We'll done! Very informative and the whiteboards will soon be analyzed thoroughly and provide dozens of new post and relight these silent forums (I hope). :)
To save you some eye strain, the green text on our board is basically verbatim what I posted about S&D and blinds in the Stand and Deliver thread :) .
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Goblin Squad Member
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Several minutes already and no in-depth number crunching analysis by Nightdrifter or Decius yet?
Good stuff on escalations, but what happens if it does get out of hand? Could potentially half the map be conquered by an escalation if you fail to stop it in time? (The Worldwound already exists in Golarion, so the precedent is there)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Things that make me happy.
Alpha server rack. Probably not where its going to stay, but cable management and having everything organized even when its in a temp location. You can tell a lot about a maintenance crew from things like that.
Now i have to watch the video but I just wanted to say that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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well there are times when i would love to take a break from work and read a bit of developer news...however, that doesnt work in a crowded office environment.
i was wondering how long it would take for before a+++@&# would response as you did...
It was a joke if were confused by the lack of emoticon to signal text joking. I have the benefit of course of knowing some of the forum'ers online persona personality. ;)
The rationale for the devs to do vlogs:
1) Near alpha they posted for people to ask questions about subjects that are in the alpha and the Early Enrollment and ask nested questions on a single topic (ie funnel questions).
2) The vlog is a more open-discussion forum for communication
3) It's showing the personal side to the dev team so we get "to know them".
4) It's a change so freshens things up.
5) Suspect it takes a bit less work as the devs crunch to alpha Milestone 6 are we now?
Anyway I hope that rationalizes why they're doing these instead of the written blogs which were great to read, I agree with you on that. In the last one someone transcribed it (Pax Shane Gifford? iirc). Maybe someone will do the same here. I quite like listening a subsequent time on hear everything.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What will stop the escalation cycle from spawning multiple cycles and then literally those cycles joining and making something like a perfect storm where players even in large groups would not be able to actually beat the cycles? i.e. like 2 tornadoes that converge on one another and they join into one super tornado.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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Realistically there's little chance that an Escalation will ever get ridiculously out of hand. The predation of the Escalation's monsters by PCs seeking them will be something we'll have to keep in fine balance. It's more likely that the PCs descend on an Escalation like locusts and kill anything that moves than that an Escalation is allowed to fester unchecked.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Realistically there's little chance that an Escalation will ever get ridiculously out of hand. The predation of the Escalation's monsters by PCs seeking them will be something we'll have to keep in fine balance. It's more likely that the PCs descend on an Escalation like locusts and kill anything that moves than that an Escalation is allowed to fester unchecked.
But if we do allow it to go unchecked PLEASE make it so that gaining the he is as costly as possible. I mean multiple settlements required to pour resources basically just like if they seiged other settlements. And if it gets bad enough they start raiding player hexes with MAJOR firepower.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My question too- what does happen when an escalation cycle isn't stopped? Does it keep growing until everyone is forced to ally and deal with it? Does it hit an overly large but potentially manageable size and then slow or stop? If so, would that size be determined by nearby populations or terrain? Is it possible to lose areas of the map to monsters "Don't go into the southern corner of the woods, only the best return to tell the tale."?
I understand that the default assumption is that an escalation cycle will eventually be stopped but... what if it happens where few have explored? Or it gets fed by the curious players nearby? Or people are busy fighting their own wars while winter is coming (tm)? :-)
Will it actually change the game?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can tell a lot about a maintenance crew from things like [cable management].
I had the same thought. I also thought it was interesting that the Art whiteboard was covered with doodles while the Programming whiteboard was very structured with good indentation :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Random thoughts from the whiteboards.)
Interesting numbers on the board letting us know what item slots are in game (we could guess based on dev posts/Daily Deals etc, but this makes it more certain). I'm surprised at how much more valuable armor is than weapons and implements. Also hand and feet items seem fairly cheap given that they are the ones which provide active abilities. This has implications for the balance of those abilities.
It appears that passive abilities have changed in number. 3 defensive (was 2), 2 reaction, 2 magic item?, 1 armor?, 1 feature.
Not sure if I'm interpretting the equation on the right of one of the boards right, but it seems like there is a "looting factor" associated to each hex. This affects "all creature dropped spoils" in that hex. It goes up over time and when you kill a creature. It goes down when you loot and "strength ???" (can't make this out, but I'd guess when a creature spawns). From above this it seems that the weapons the creature is wielding determine how much their deaths/spawning affects this looting factor.
According to the Art board Tech needs to "make game funner". They're probably just upset cause the Game Design guys seem to be hogging all the markers. Heck, the Art board is in all blue and they no longer even have a blue marker, but Game Design has 2.
Edit: assuming my interpretation is correct loot in a hex gets better by 14.4% of its base value every day it's still around.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If for some odd reason the escalation cycle is allowed to get out of hand where several settlements or even Kingdoms would have to join forces to beat them back, I think would be interesting and fun once in awhile.
Basically would become a server-wide event.
I also liked the bit about future plans for escalation cycles that won't involve ripping mobs a new one.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Several minutes already and no in-depth number crunching analysis by Nightdrifter or Decius yet?
Good stuff on escalations, but what happens if it does get out of hand? Could potentially half the map be conquered by an escalation if you fail to stop it in time? (The Worldwound already exists in Golarion, so the precedent is there)
We do have day jobs as well as our forum jobs.
I'll leave the art and programming boards to people more willing to decrypt their cryptic runes, and most of the game design board has already been cross-posted to the cable on Stand And Deliver.
Top-left table, in CSV because the forum doesn't do tables:
Material Values:
,TI,TII,TII;
Chemical,10,50,2500;
Cloth,100,500,25000;
Essence,15,75,3750;
Gem,90,450,22500;
Leather,70,350,17500;
Metal,70,450,16250;
Wood,50,250,13750;
T2x5 T3x250
Several apparent inconsistencies are evident, and at least one (metal TII 450) is clearly not a transcription error. Wood and Metal TIII are not clear enough in the image for me to say that they break the pattern.
Purple text below: ? indicates uncertain transcriptions.
Weapon 600
Implement 700
Armor Clothing 1600
------Light 1800
------Medium 2000
------Heavy 2200
Items? Head 400
------Neck 400
------Back? 500
------Waist|wrist? 500
------Hands? 300
------Feet 300?
------Ring 780?
Consumables? Greanadelike? 30?
------------Potion 40?
------------Poison 60
Top-right is some apparent UI/gameplay discussion regarding slots. Visible at the top of the keys are "Implement" "Cooldown powers?", and [illegible]. Below the key diagrams are [illegible], "Weapon" "Utility" and [illegible]. To the right is a chart labeled "Passives?", with five illegible bullet points with 3,2,2,1,1 bullet in front of them.
Below that on the right side is
Counter Points per kill
Lt. Blade + Shield - 2
Lt. Blade x2 - 1
Hvy Blade - 1
Wand - 1
Made-dagger etc - 2
And in black below that
Looting Factor (Per Hex)
Starts 10,000
-x/Spoil Generated in hex from creature drops
-1/Strength Generated in EC
+1/Minute
+1/Strength reduced in escalation cycle
LF/10,000 + 0.25 = Multipler for all creature-dropped spoils in hex
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Goblin Squad Member
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Realistically there's little chance that an Escalation will ever get ridiculously out of hand. The predation of the Escalation's monsters by PCs seeking them will be something we'll have to keep in fine balance. It's more likely that the PCs descend on an Escalation like locusts and kill anything that moves than that an Escalation is allowed to fester unchecked.
I think freedom of mobility in the world will be a big determining factor of this. If a majority of groups are able to enforce strong restrictions on travel through "claimed and neighboring hexes" then the PvE aspects may be stifled by lack of freedom to move and act.
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I also thought it was interesting that the Art whiteboard was covered with doodles while the Programming whiteboard was very structured with good indentation :)
As it should be. :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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Realistically there's little chance that an Escalation will ever get ridiculously out of hand. The predation of the Escalation's monsters by PCs seeking them will be something we'll have to keep in fine balance. It's more likely that the PCs descend on an Escalation like locusts and kill anything that moves than that an Escalation is allowed to fester unchecked.I think freedom of mobility in the world will be a big determining factor of this. If a majority of groups are able to enforce strong restrictions on travel through "claimed and neighboring hexes" then the PvE aspects may be stifled by lack of freedom to move and act.
Love will find a way. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Woohoo, my question! I was so excited to see my name on the video, I had to tell a bunch of friends! XD
is there a written version of the blog? a transcript? i much preferred your previous dev blogs where it was actually written down..
I've done one so far (Thunderstrike! specifically), but don't count on same-day delivery from me for a written version of the blog. I'll keep doing the transcriptions in my spare time, unless someone else does them or they become obsolete/unneeded.
Now then, to the contents of the blog:
As soon as I saw that game design board I thought of Nightdrifter. :P Good to see so many things in the "in progress" and "complete" sections of art's board.
I like the things I heard about escalations; I thought the plague victim escalation idea is very unique and cool. Wonderful blog, as usual, and thanks again for all the work you're doing. The moment you turn the servers on for the first (non-GW/Paizo) players is fast approaching! :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Welcome to the Video Blogs Bob!
Looking back through the first two V-Blogs the energy and eye contact was better than I remembered, so I must apologize for my previous criticisms - you guys are doing great!
That 2nd camera angle is still driving me nuts, though I can appreciate the need for it with regard to editing. But I have an idea you're really gonna hate:
Just use video clips from the game! Conversationally relevant screenshots, clip art, hell, I'd be happy to watch rendering bloopers! This would almost certainly create a much bigger editorial workload for the poor V-Blog team. But the Goblin Squad will really, really like it!
Don't get me wrong - Steve, Bob and Lee are Adorable. (And who doesn't love Ryan's mild lisp? Truly endearing!) But you simply cannot give us too much game footage. And V-Blog #3 had . . . no game footage!
And that's the gripe I really want to make. Yes, the conversational content is excellent and well delivered, but . . . we're gamers! We wanna see what your making too!
i really hope there's a mod for the whiteboard style art. :)
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Looting factor is very much speculative; it's not anywhere near implemented and we may not need it. It's designed to prevent farming an escalation rather than completing it. It caps at 10k, so wouldn't get better than 125% by letting a cycle sit. Strength reduction and increase is not 1:1 per creature killed/spawned. The goal is to tune it so if you reduce strength and defeat the escalation cycle at about the expected speed, loot stays at 100%-125% of base, but if you keep backing out and letting the cycle regenerate, you'll eventually drive the loot in the hex down to 25% of base as encouragement to stop farming and just finish the cycle already (clearing a cycle resets the factor).
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Goblin Squad Member
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When an escalation goes unchecked, could it spill over into a hex with a PoI and endanger that PoI? This would be a good incentive to not let these things go.
Or maybe the quality of the resources in a Monster hex could go up if an escalation is left unchecked for a long time.
Competition for those resources could add to the PvP fun, and would discourage settlements to "fatten" a monsterhex by letting the escalation go unchecked.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure that the concept of permanent 'monster hexes' makes a lot of sense. From an out of game perspective it is just odd for 'monster problems' to always crop up in the same spot(s) and to continue doing so long after the surrounding area has become 'peaceful and civilized'... conversely this setup also makes it completely impossible for monsters to move into a 'settlement hex' after a terrible war leaves a city reduced to rubble. In game, I foresee kingdoms 'farming' their monster hexes by deliberately letting them build up to the highest escalation cycle before cleaning them out.
Would it be possible to change the 'monster hex' logic to potentially begin an escalation cycle in any hex which isn't CURRENTLY settled? That plus algorithms which set the likelihood of monster escalation based on the degree to which surrounding hexes have been settled and the mechanic would be more 'organic' overall.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Would it be possible to change the 'monster hex' logic to potentially begin an escalation cycle in any hex which isn't CURRENTLY settled? That plus algorithms which set the likelihood of monster escalation based on the degree to which surrounding hexes have been settled and the mechanic would be more 'organic' overall.
I like that idea, but a problem could be that they want to populate the monster hexes with some graphical assets too, like a few Goblin camps, or an Ogre cave, from which such an escalation could occur. Ruins for the Undead escalations and such.
I guess they could put small camps, ruins and caves in any hex though so maybe that would not have to be such a problem.
I thought escalations could cross hex borders btw, but I could be wrong.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@CBDunkerson, the idea of permanent monster hexes mirrors the idea of pre-identified settlement hexes. The idea of set settlement hexes allows the map to be somewhat balanced and prevents players from building a string of adjacent settlements to create unbreachable strongholds. The set monster hexes ensure that no monster hex and settlement are adjacent to each other. Monster escalations will therefore spread from monster hex to wilderness or POI hexes before settlements are threatened, giving settlements time to address the advancing problem. Even old established settlements will have to be prepared for monster outbreaks.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Hey guys
Escalation cycles have a number of levers we can use to control their growth. For example goblins spread quickly, but not in great strength while dragons spread slowly but when they move into a hex, they move into a hex. So different escalations will react differently to players fighting them or not. Also each escalation cycle has limitations, like the number of hexes it can control. If it reaches that limit it stops spreading, but the hexes already infected continue to grow in strength. Thus far most of the escalation cycles have limits in the 10-30 hex range, but those numbers are EXTREMELY experimental right now.
If no one deals with an escalation cycle and its home hex's strength goes over a certain threshold, that escalation cycle has "won." The monsters have reached their goal, and their behavior from there depends on how the escalation cycle is set up. Raiding barbarians may then pack up and leave after a few days, while the Ripping Chains may settle in and rule their new kingdom. Once an escalation cycle enters this state a boss is summoned to represent the conquering leader, and he can be killed, but he gives out far worse loot than the boss that is summoned if the players beat the escalation cycle into submission. So if you just let an escalation cycle grow it will get stronger, possibly reach its limits, and eventually spawn a boss that gives out less loot due to your inaction. So hit the escalation cycles often!
Long term we want escalation cycles that get out of control to attack POIs in their territory, negatively affect resource ratings, etc, but that tech is not in yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I might be slow, but I just realized when looking at Lee's avatar that it really looks like him (if he were a goblin of course). The resemblance is a bit more so than Stephen's or Ryan's, that is pretty awesome.
On a side not, after reading the white boards...... I want a Goblin Dog pet! Please tell me there is some way that we can capture / subdue wild critters are tame / break / domesticate them and make them pets!
That is, instead of selling them directly in the cash shop. You could sell a training stick in the cash shop and that provides a chance to tame a wild critter. That way you make extra cha-Ching and we have another immersive activity to participate in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks Lee, awesome details. So escalations can indeed cross hex borders, I think that gives them much more importance, even if the tech where they do attack PoIs or affect resources is not in yet.
Because I assume that an escalation that has bubbled over to 10-20 hexes will be a serious pita anyway for neighbouring settlements, when it comes to harvesting and traveling and such. So there is an urgency to control the escalation, and not just because the monsters give loot (and the Boss extra loot).