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Goblin Squad Member. 46 posts (47 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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I'll have to put myself as opposed to this idea, as I see many others have done as well. There is no challenge in killing a sleeping target, the "sleeper" couldn't do anything to resist the occurance, and some of us have a life or a job which means that we might have to leave the computer FAST.

Goblin Squad Member

Player housing is, at the end of the day, a nice to have, not a need to have, so I can understand Goblinworks not wanting to throw resources at it early in the game, as other things should take priority.

That said though, it would certainly be VERY nice to have something like officer housing in the keeps, or just baracks, inns and hostels which could host a number of players.

Goblin Squad Member

Lifedragn wrote:

How about a compromise?

We choose our favorite imperial measurements and then chop them into base 10 ala the metric system.

Now then, do we want to work with kilofeet or millimiles?

Why not feetres?

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LazarX wrote:
Moridian wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Moridian wrote:
I am not rage quitting over this, I am just noting that on a global stand point the metric system makes more sense and even America is slowly getting more and more familiar with it.

It "makes sense" from a post Rennaissance Enlightment viewpoint when science is making it's first solid dominance in not only thought but in commerce and trade as well.

It would not have made sense in the time of Noah when Cubits and angry flood making gods ruled the day.

Again being historically accurate does not really work with pathfinder. We did not have robots (golems) in the post Renaissance world, we did not have potions capable of healing cuts and burns by drinking it, we didn't have the ability to fly, teleport or astral project. Yes not all of those are technical achievements but they would have a huge impact on the development on a world. In fact I'd argue it is more advanced than modern day in most cases. Healing jelly which pretty much undo all harm done to you? Blessings capable of undoing pretty much any poison regardless the source, regrowing lost limbs, instant teleportation to anywhere in the world or other dimensions, creating food out of thin air, the list goes on and on. Why would you spend thousands of years, trying to get medical technology to our level, when clerics already far surpass us?
Why do so many people insist that "because it's fantasy and magic" that we should throw away any attempt at consistency and verisimilitude in building worlds and magic systems?

Magic aside, we also got fairly advanced alchemy (speaking about non-magical alchemy here), and we also got guns.

Furthermore, fullplate, while not common, exists in the world, as does halberds and rapiers, all which were fairly late invetions.

So from a strictly non-magical point of view, Golarion is actually fairly advanced when it comes to "simple" science and advancements. It is very late medievial if not renaissance.

All in all, it is impossible to say exactly where on the "real life timeline" Golarion fits into, and arguing about a fantasy world which do not in the least follow our world's laws with our world's laws is ultimately redundant.

I will agree that using a system which only exists in Golarion and not in our world makes much more sense than anything else, however, failing that, I do not see why the people of Golarion would not have figured out that dividing by 10 is easy.

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LazarX wrote:
Pax Shane Gifford wrote:
I'd be surprised if anyone quit a game because it expressed their carry capacity and item weights in kilograms rather than pounds.
Actually it seems some of our Euro friends might ragequit when they discover NPC's talking about distances in miles and leagues, and weights in pounds. :)

I haven't seen anyone claim that they will "ragequit" the game based on measurement.

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Wait, who is saying that PFO is mainly aimed at the American Market? Could we get a Dev on this?

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http://cdn3.chartsbin.com/chartimages/l_d12_33fb9fc29a88e150b57640019918ebf 6

I think this map is worth leaving here.

Goblin Squad Member

I would be happy for PfO to use the metric system. It is simple and straight forward.

Any modern kind of measurement will feel immersion breaking to some degree. That is just how it is. Might as well be metric.

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Not going with questions this week was the right decision, I am really happy that you showed us the map! Looking forward to exploring it in person.

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I went to bed, but I have seen it now. I liked the video, and I imagen I'll be hanging out in the badlands and the meteor areas a lot :D

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I think my F5 button will break soon.

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Yeah I am refreshing it every 5-10 minutes at the moment!

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As I said in another thread, give us spears. Especially one handed spears are pretty easy to use in close combat, as you can use the shield for deflection and parry.

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Spears are probably one of my favorite weapons. Give us spears.

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This is a bit sad, yet I cannot say that I did not expect it. They have worked on it so long now, yet there has been so little news about it. To me, World of Darkness Online looked like it were dying from the moment it was announced.

It is too bad it didn't work out for them, but that only means I can lend my full focus to Pathfinder :)

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We know that it will be possible to gain a boost with certain factions, like the Hellknights and the Pathfinder Society, in the game through the Early Enrollment store. My question concerning this will then be, what will these factions do in the game, and how will they affect my gameplay? Will I have to "grind" reputation with them, or are there other ways to interact with them? Will interaction with them be meaningful?

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I think that the most important thing with armour is to have realistic proportions. Sure, they might look fancy, magical, even fantastic from time to time (I don't think we can escape that) but at least make it look like they could work. No shoulderpads that are bigger than your head, no gauntlets that look like you are a cyborg, things like that.

Goblin Squad Member

I think out-of-combat healing should be fairly quick, especially since Goblinworks have talked about their injury system in an earlier blog (Thunderstrike I think). You will still be required to do more complicated stuff to get rid of the injury points, so I don't see why your hit points wouldn't regenerate at a fair rate.

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The escalation cycle seems interesting, and it also seems like you guys have put some proper thought into it!

I look forward to seeing how this turns out!

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Lifedragn wrote:

Sarenrae (pronounced SAER-en-ray[1]) teaches temperance and patience in all things. Compassion and peace are her greatest virtues, and if enemies of the faith can be redeemed, they should be. Yet there are those who have no interest in redemption, who glory in slaughter and death. From the remorseless evil of the undead and fiends to the cruelties born in the hearts of mortals, Sarenrae's doctrines preach swift justice delivered by the scimitar's edge.

No, I think this follower has just the right amount of wrath.

I for one am glad that the followers of Lamashtu and Sarenrae take to the slaying of one another! Let us sit back for a while, let them play this out amongst one another, and then the heavy hammer of Law can sweep in to make right out of what is left.

Goblin Squad Member

Asmodeus all the way, my favourite deity in pathfinder by a mile! :D

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MrSavarius, unaffiliated.

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Personally I'd like to see an "amount of muscle" either slider or a few options, for both men and female. I think it is kind of silly how most MMOs have you looking like a Greek God.

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It has probably been asked already, but I will show interest in this anyway, in the hope of a blog answer:

How, if at all, will prestige classed be involved? Will some of the unique to some prestige classed be present, such as the arcane trickster's ability to disable traps from afar? If prestige classes are not present, will there be other features that would make cross-role characters (such as wizard-warrior) viable?

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I will probably go rogue and a little bit of wizard in anticipation for arcane trickster or anything like that, though prestige classes were sadly not mentioned in this blog. Nonetheless, I approve of the direction of adding classes slowly to make sure that they are done properly and have their own feel, I don't mind waiting and I am sure that I will have fun sneaking about!

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I like Tome/Scroll/Book of Experince/Knowledge myself. Pretty self explanatory.

Goblin Squad Member

To go back to prestige classes a bit, I really want to play an arcane trickster! I am glad to hear that these are (hopefully) not too far away.

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Ah, it doesn't show, but I were able to buy things from the store as if I were a Squad member, so I suppose there is little harm done! :)

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Testing to see if mine shows...

Goblin Squad Member

Oberyn Corvus wrote:

To those who have expressed the opinion that they are 'disadvantaged' or 'screwed' by not having DT, could you please elaborate a bit? How exactly is this going to affect your playing time?

All DT does is save you 15 dollars a month. Its a purely financial matter. It doesnt give you an in-game benefit that cannot be achieved by spending that additional subscription. And because its purely financial, its related to the investment point I raised above, namely that early investors often get a better package than late-comers. Its all about risk vs reward. The earlier investors are assuming a greater risk, therefore if it works out they get a greater reward. Those of us that come in later are now investing into something less risky, therefore less reward for us. Thats how financing works.

It doesnt make business sense to offer DT to everyone. A niche game like this is going to be making its money from the subscriptions and, if EVE is anything to go by, the multiple subscriptions per player. Thats how they can keep the whole thing running with a smaller playerbase. DT could screw their earnings which means that they might run into trouble maintaining the game which could lead to the whole thing shutting down. Bit of a 'sky is falling' statement, but it could lead to that. Why? Because offering DT to everyone means that theyve effectively cut their earnings from subscriptions in half. Everyone and their uncle is going to be using DTs left, right and centre. It just makes better financial sense.

I would like to remind everyone again that you can pay for your subscription with in-game money. Therefore, even if you have a financial consideration, you can address it by your in-game actions. Hell, settlements could run lotterys for these things to help their players. Thats a perk that very few games offer.

Of course, this doesnt preclude the option of another wave of KS-like backing so we may still get an option. I just dont see how we can claim that this scenario is 'unfair', 'discriminating' or...

It is going to affect anyone who whishes to play on more than one character. Even if you can pay for subs with in game money, that still means I have to do a (probably) heck of a lot of farming for the honour of keeping another account running.

While I agree that kickstarting is a high risk system, all who kickstarted were (hopefully) aware of that. And they do get benefits, and rather big ones, if you ask me. But Destiny Twins is a pure advantage, and it is not un-economical to offer it at a higher price for none-kickstarters.

If their business model relies on people having more than one account, I think they should take a look at their business model.

@Being
We do not expect something for nothing, so drop that.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
Elana Nightrunner wrote:
... I feel very much the same. Not even just at being at a disadvantage. But what if I roll a warrior and suddenly realize I don't like the playstyle? Well good thing I have a mage alt! No wait I don't have the destiny perk, so never mind! I guess I am screwed on that one.
Maybe we should get what we respectively paid for?

I don't see the need for sounding condescending when we are saying that we are willing to pay for it, even willing to pay more for it.

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Being wrote:
Elana Nightrunner wrote:
... why not give it to everyone?
They aren't a government service or charity that tries to give help to people without expecting a profit.

And we are willing to give them profit.

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Oberyn Corvus wrote:
MrSavarius wrote:
My argument for the financial factor is that I wish to be able to do the same. Even if I have to pay a few dollars more for the ability to have Destiny Twins on my account, I would like to have the ability to have the same experince as the kickstarters. I don't think a one-time cost for none-kickstarters should be seen as a kick in the teeth for those who kickstarted the game, just because I wish to have a nifty feature in this game.

If it were my decision, purely from a business perspective, I wouldnt offer the DT benefits for purchase for at least a year after OE, if ever. Why? Because those are investor benefits. Many people decided to put money into this game before they even knew if it was going to be successful or not, at least a year and a half before they would see the fruits of that investment, all on the basis of those perks. These people are in effect GW's investors. You dont alienate your investors by offering 'investor only perks' to the general public. If anything, we should be thanking those DT holders because its their money that is making this a reality. Why theirs and not ours? Because if they hadnt pledged in the KS, GW wouldnt have a business case to continue. Doesnt matter if we wanted to invest later, the opportunity would be gone. I think theyve earned their perks. Let them keep them. Id be happy to be able to get a DT later (it is a very nice perk after all), but I would fully accept not being allowed to get it. Such is life. And ultimately, I can play and enjoy my game just fine either way.

/end soapbox

I am happy to let them "keep" any perks which doesn't give them an all out advantage to everyone else. Some extra gear, an xp boost or whatever, isn't the same thing as earning twice the xp to everyone else at launch. I know you don't want to turn this into a pay to win debate, and neither do I, but it's towards that it's turning, if it is not offered to everyone, in one manner or another.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
MrSavarius wrote:
Being wrote:
MrSavarius wrote:

...

I am willing to put in the equal investment, I am just not willing to pay way more money than you do for the honour of equal investment.
Then my recommendation is to own responsibility for your choices rather than attempting to deny my ability to invest in mine.
Yhea, I own the responsibility for my "choice" of not knowing of the kickstarter. Now I want to make up for that "decision".
You may get that option.

And I hope that I do, which is exactly why I am raising the issue.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
MrSavarius wrote:

...

I am willing to put in the equal investment, I am just not willing to pay way more money than you do for the honour of equal investment.
Then my recommendation is to own responsibility for your choices rather than attempting to deny my ability to invest in mine.

Yhea, I own the responsibility for my "choice" of not knowing of the kickstarter. Now I want to make up for that "decision".

Goblin Squad Member

Oberyn Corvus wrote:

Destiny's twin doesnt put anyone at a disadvantage. Its just different. We all have the option of paying for a second subscription, as has been mentioned. In addition, you can always buy a short xp training package, put it on a character to get some specialised skills and then stop their training. Voila, instant support character.

Speaking as someone who does NOT have the destiny's twin perk (I missed out on the KS), I do not think DT is in any way shape or form giving people an unfair advantage. Even if someone is going to argue the financial factor, I dont think it applies. These people have already paid for that benefit by their KS pledges. In the meantime their investment is accruing gains over the 1.5 years+ they wait till launch. So in essence theyre also paying for that extra xp, just under a different investment scheme.

Long story short, please lets not turn this into a 'OMG, PFO is a pay-to-win game!! Hax!'.

My argument for the financial factor is that I wish to be able to do the same. Even if I have to pay a few dollars more for the ability to have Destiny Twins on my account, I would like to have the ability to have the same experince as the kickstarters. I don't think a one-time cost for none-kickstarters should be seen as a kick in the teeth for those who kickstarted the game, just because I wish to have a nifty feature in this game.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
MrSavarius wrote:
Being wrote:

I would rather not give up my destiny's twin advantage. In order to actually do something with my destiny's twin I will have to stop playing my main and work my destiny's twin. I do not think dual boxing is bad, but if an account is only allowed a single character active at any time then the advantage accruing to the destiny's twin will be negligible.

My good fortune doesn't reduce your good fortune.

But your good fortune dooes reduce my good fortune, as you have twice the advantage that I have. Also, I am one of thsoe crazy people who actually like having one alt rather close to my main, and this system discourages me from doing just that. If one account is allowed one character, a Destiny Twin account will have twice the characters, and therefore twice the benefit.
In order to train both I will also have invested twice as much, having had to train twice as often. If you wish equal benefit you will need to make an equal investment. If you will not make equal investment your claim for equal benefit is without merit.

I am willing to put in the equal investment, I am just not willing to pay way more money than you do for the honour of equal investment.

Goblin Squad Member

Just because only a few people has it doesn't mean it's not pay to win, at least putting it up on the RMT would mean that everyone has the ability.

Besides, not everyone is inclined to pay for two accounts, especially when other people doesn't have to.

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Being wrote:

I would rather not give up my destiny's twin advantage. In order to actually do something with my destiny's twin I will have to stop playing my main and work my destiny's twin. I do not think dual boxing is bad, but if an account is only allowed a single character active at any time then the advantage accruing to the destiny's twin will be negligible.

My good fortune doesn't reduce your good fortune.

But your good fortune dooes reduce my good fortune, as you have twice the advantage that I have. Also, I am one of thsoe crazy people who actually like having one alt rather close to my main, and this system discourages me from doing just that. If one account is allowed one character, a Destiny Twin account will have twice the characters, and therefore twice the benefit.

Goblin Squad Member

A Destiny Twins character can also make friends, can't they? I fail to see how that is an argument.

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I would like to throw in my worry about the Destiny Twins perk as well. While it, as has been stated, doesn't give you training but experince, I still view this as a big advantage.

For example, someone with Destiny Twins can have two characters which actievly support each other, like a blacksmith and a warrior, and will therefore be able to get gear, items and money quicker than anyone who does not posses this perk, as well as being able to run around and explore, adventure or whatever you wish to do. While this might not worry you, it throws me off a bit. A Destiny Twins account will have double the advantage.

As I view it, no matter how it is put, this perk is a huge advantage, and it encourages kickstarters to make alts, while it forces others to pay extra just to keep up. Or if they do not pay, they are bound to fall behind.

Now, I agree that the kickstarters deserve a reward for being there from the start, but I don't think the rewards should be something that gives them an out-right permanent advantage to anyone else. Besides, Destiny Twins is such a nifty feature that I think it would be a shame to limit it in such a way.

My main worry with this feature, to sum it it up, is that it will launch the Destiny Twins ahead in such a speed that it will be very hard for those who do not have it to catch up. While someone Destiny Twins wont have an individual character with more experince than anyone else, they can have two characters who can support each other, which is arguably even better.

Goblin Squad Member

Probably making a human (or half-orc) leaning toward something arcane trickstery. A roguish character who sneaks through long dark caves trying to gain as much treasure with as little risk of getting into a fight as possible, and then sell the less valuable of those treasure to be able to train skills while keeping the more expensive stuff somewhere for a rainy day. Leaning towards having him be Lawful Neutral or Lawful Neutral, because I find those alignments funny.

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Discussion about the common or uncommon Trials by Combat none with standing, I would still like to stress the example from Neverwinter Nights 2 made in my post. In the game it's stated that it's a long dead tradition that they don't really do anymore, and the only reason why they let you do it is because it's still, technically, in the "lawbook".

You would be lying to yourself if you stated that Fantasy RPG, especially Dungeongs & Dragons / Pathfinder are based on the midieval times of our own history. To begin with, slavery is considered an act of Evil, which, if we look as history, doesn't really seem to go all that well with the view on morals from this time in our own history. Serves and slaves were a rather common occurance, one could say, part of the norm.

Secondly, many parts of the D&D / PF universes frown upon torture and public executions. Again, not really matching all that well with our historical society, where people went out to watch people getting pulled apart by horses, gotten limbs choped off, etcetera, etcetera.

As a closing statement, we can't forget that D&D / PF adds a whole new class of citizens to the mix, that of the Adventurer. It's not that it's a particularly common class in these systems, but it's common enough, so to the point that almost every community, no matter how small, have at least one individual within itself who have belong to this rather odd little class. This, in combination with the fact that magic is real in this setting, and good and evil is a force of nature, makes it almost impossible to properly compare this to our own medieval society.

To round this off and move back on topic, either you have the cake or you don't. You allow slavery, you are considered evil. No matter. It's the only conventient and logical way to do it.

On a whole other topic, I find the idea of the hienous flag redundant.

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I agree with Decorus on this point, and it's what I tried to get across in my previous post though, admittedly, I did it rather poorly. If anyone could be, potentially, considered heinous at any time, I fail to see the point of even having it in the game. Sure, if you break the laws of whatever place you find yourself in, you should be open for punishment, maybe not death, but possibly a healthy beating and being thrown out.

I think trying to have a "moral compass" in an MMO that is trying to encourage roleplay is... iffy at best, and will result in more grief than joy.

Goblin Squad Member

But in some fantasy settings you do have to clear it with the law of the land before striking down supposed evil-doers. An example were made earlier by GrumpyMel about Trial by Combat in our own world's history (which I don't consider a very valid argument to begin with, but will reply to none the less). Yes, trial by combat have occured and still do, even if it's more of a criminal offense now a days, but there is a key-diffrence here. Almost all trials by combat have had one very strong rule: You DO NOT kill your opponent, but leave them to be dealt with by the law of the land. It's also a more formal process than "here have a sword lets go" in most (western and eastern, since those are the ones I know the most about) throughout time. Actually, all throughout our world's history, killing is an act that has been largely frowned upon when it can be avoided. This is why even gladiatorial combat got a rather low death rate for what it is.

I would also like to bring up another example that I think relate to the topic. In Neverwinter Nights 2 (SPOILERS for that game to follow, if you do mind) you find yourself in the city of Neverwinter where you try to twart the plans of the evil Garius and his lackeys, Torio and Lorne. Now, these individuals commit crime like murder, goading of the local orc tribe, raising of the dead, worshipping of evil deities, etc. etc. as well as framing you, the main character for murder. Instead of killing them all out for their henious ways, you go to court, and only through a series of long quests (and high diplomacy rolls) can you clear your name. No matter if you do clear your name or not, a trial by combat will take place, either on the suggestion of your "lawyer" Sand, or Torio, depending on who won the diplomacy rolls. This trial is to the death, however, as it's fine to do that in a fantasy setting. We're playing in a setting where "evil" and "good" are objective truths after all!

Now, to bring my rather longwinded argument to a close, I'd also like to mention that most cultures in our own history have employed slave work in one way or another (and we can argue that we still do with economical slavery, though that is a whole other can of worms we don't need to open!). We can either do the simple thing here, and say that slavery, no matter what, is always considered an evil act, and should really, REALLY count as such, if it will even be in the game. The only real solution I would see to this problem is that any settlement which allow slavery inside their walls should be considered to be evil, no matter what good they do other than that.

Sorry for the wall of text!

Goblin Squad Member

My problem with the Heinous / Villain issue is that it punishes the good for what the bad might do. Let me explain what I mean.

The "lol-child" runs around and smack people over the head will get the heinous (maybe even villain) flag, and for those actions, it's very possible that he deserves to be a free kill for everyone.

Now, if you are a gang of bandints, extracting goods from those who pass by you, and killing those who doesn't pay up (you need to keep your reputation after all), you will also be flagged heinous / villain, for simply RPing out what you are.

Now, I have the mentality that you shouldn't punish something that isn't wrong by default, if you can avoid it. It feels like this system will punish some potentially really good RP.