Paizo hasn't done much with Orcus, mainly becase he's been used so heavily by the WotC/TSR in their products over the past 40 years, plus significant use by a number of thrid-party publishers in their products.
James Jacobs has said that Orcus' story has pretty much been told, so he won't be much of a player in Golarion canon.
Paizo has written a whole bunch of new demon lords and will want to spend their time writing about them, instead. (e.g. Nocticula, Deskari, Sifkesh, Socothbentoth, Cyth-V'sug, etc.)
I think it would be neat if it is published a mythic super module for the next anniversary of the world's oldest pen and paper RPG telling about the end of Orcus. Something with a dramatic titled, like "When the Wand got broken", delivering the final chapter of the demon lord which has been the main antagonist of so many campaigns.
Even could be a crossover module, doing references to well know campaign settings if Wizards agree.
That would be kind of cool, but the Sorcerers of the Shore would never agree to such a thing. And, honestly, I don't know if Paizo would want to, either. Splitting any royalties would get dicey.
Guess Paizo considers Orcus to be Clark Peterson's territory (he made Orcus OGL compatible) when it comes to 3pp OGL stuff maybe?
FYI, the Orcus article on PFWiki is complete as of today.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
FYI, the Orcus article on PFWiki is complete as of today.
Cool, thanks! Orcus will play heavily in my homebrew Golarion game's endgame. This is good to have.
Everything Orcus is WotC stuff, he's their mascot, like my missed mind flayers. I love the guy, the whole intrigues between him Graazt, Demogorgon and even gods are epic.
I'd be careful about killing Orcus. It lead to all sorts of nasty stuff last time it happened.I think it would be neat if it is published a mythic super module for the next anniversary of the world's oldest pen and paper RPG telling about the end of Orcus. Something with a dramatic titled, like "When the Wand got broken", delivering the final chapter of the demon lord which has been the main antagonist of so many campaigns.
Even could be a crossover module, doing references to well know campaign settings if Wizards agree.
We actually did this back when I was ending high school. Everyone died except my CN level 20 barbarian, who decapitated Orcus and reluctantly became the new demon lord of Thanatos. Was a good end to a four year long campaign before we all graduated.
Right on, it's admittedly been awhile, I just wanted to share some of the cooler stuff I remembered, but thanks for correcting my mistakes.
Everything Orcus is WotC stuff, he's their mascot, like my missed mind flayers. I love the guy, the whole intrigues between him Graazt, Demogorgon and even gods are epic.** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
Orcus is the Latin spelling of the Greek god Horkos. He is NOT WotC property, though the specific mechanics may be.
TSR used a lot of obscure Greek and Roman deities when they created their demons and devils. Another example is the devil Dispater, which is an alternate spelling of Dis Pater (in Latin, Dis = Hell, Pater = father).
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Orcus the Name is not property of WOTC, but the specific expression of Orcus and his trademark wand most definitely is. It's the same thing with Tiamat.O RLY ?
Yes, really. Of course, the lower profile you are, the higher your chances of getting by unnoticed if you do D&D Orcus stuff without using the OGL. Paizo is about as opposite as you can get from "low profile" as far as that's concerned.
Demogorgon and Tiamat are even more off limits to us. We COULD use Orcus in his D&D incarnation, thanks to Tome of Horrors... but we have, so far, chosen not to, since he's had more than his share of attention and time in the spotlight, what with Dead Gods, the Bloodstone Saga, my adventure "Headless" in Dungeon, Rapan Athuk, Savage Tide, Slumbering Tsar, being on the cover of the 4th edition Monster Manual, etc.
There's over 2 dozen other demon lords to play with who DON'T have complicated established canon/histories, in other words.
We might some day do something with Orcus, but first, we've got more to say about Nocticula and Cyth-V'sug and Areshkagal and Sifkesh and Zura and Abraxas and Shax and Dagon and Pazuzu and Mestama and Kabriri and Yhidothrus and so on and so on...
|
They may be small, but I wouldn't really consider Necromancer / Frog God Games to be very low profile. Orcus has been a huge part of The Lost Lands for well over a decade. And you can't convince me that WotC has been oblivious to them all that time.
Orcus may technical be WotC property, buy legally, if you don't defend your rights over property like that, you essentially lose them. Any judge in the word would ask WotC why they waited 12 years to object to another company using Orcus extensively, and shut down any attempt to "rreclaim" him.
|
They may be small, but I wouldn't really consider Necromancer / Frog God Games to be very low profile. Orcus has been a huge part of The Lost Lands for well over a decade. And you can't convince me that WotC has been oblivious to them all that time.
Orcus may technical be WotC property, buy legally, if you don't defend your rights over property like that, you essentially lose them. Any judge in the word would ask WotC why they waited 12 years to object to another company using Orcus extensively, and shut down any attempt to "rreclaim" him.
Orcus featured in several 4E products.
Orcus featured in several 4E products.They may be small, but I wouldn't really consider Necromancer / Frog God Games to be very low profile. Orcus has been a huge part of The Lost Lands for well over a decade. And you can't convince me that WotC has been oblivious to them all that time.
Orcus may technical be WotC property, buy legally, if you don't defend your rights over property like that, you essentially lose them. Any judge in the word would ask WotC why they waited 12 years to object to another company using Orcus extensively, and shut down any attempt to "rreclaim" him.
If I recall, he was on the cover of one of the Monster Manuals. And they made a "mini" (I use the term loosely given how big it is) of him.
And even with the names of Demogorgon and Tiamat and Orcus, while you can use them, you are going to disappoint a lot of people coming in from older DnD editions. It'll feel like a bait and switch.
"Oh man Orcus is in Pathfinder? I love Orcus!! Let me by this book all about Orcus!"
few minutes later...
"What the hell? This isn't Orcus!! I got lied to!!"
|
|
And even with the names of Demogorgon and Tiamat and Orcus, while you can use them, you are going to disappoint a lot of people coming in from older DnD editions. It'll feel like a bait and switch.
"Oh man Orcus is in Pathfinder? I love Orcus!! Let me by this book all about Orcus!"
few minutes later...
"What the hell? This isn't Orcus!! I got lied to!!"
You're wrong, too. Orcus is a special case.
Orcus was made open content in Tome of Horrors, per WotC's permission. What was made open content was not just his name, but his iconic appearance, The Wand, demon lord of undead, yadda yadda. Sure, not all elements of his backstory made it into open content, but things which I think do constitute the core of "Orcusness" did.
So Pathfinder Orcus is what people expect from Orcus - big fat goat demon lord of liches and skeletons and eeeevuuuul. Hits all the right vibes, right?
Tiamat and Demogorgon are different. The names are open (since they're drawn from mythology and you can't IP them) BUT their appearance, status and general outlook were never made open content. So you can name-drop them, but if anybody would ever want to reimagine them, they'd have to keep 5 miles away from WotC versions.
|
Creative Director
|
They may be small, but I wouldn't really consider Necromancer / Frog God Games to be very low profile. Orcus has been a huge part of The Lost Lands for well over a decade. And you can't convince me that WotC has been oblivious to them all that time.
Orcus may technical be WotC property, buy legally, if you don't defend your rights over property like that, you essentially lose them. Any judge in the word would ask WotC why they waited 12 years to object to another company using Orcus extensively, and shut down any attempt to "rreclaim" him.
In fact, Necromancer got specific permission from WotC back in the day to use Orcus and a lot of other D&D monsters; that's why Tome of Horrors has things like Orcus and the aurumvorax and the froghemoth and the shadow demon and so much more... and why WE have those in Pathfinder today. So yeah... WotC absolutely knows about that. I never claimed otherwise.
Write it yourself.I think it would be neat if it is published a mythic super module for the next anniversary of the world's oldest pen and paper RPG telling about the end of Orcus. Something with a dramatic titled, like "When the Wand got broken", delivering the final chapter of the demon lord which has been the main antagonist of so many campaigns.
Even could be a crossover module, doing references to well know campaign settings if Wizards agree.
Okay, lets see how many like this idea.
When the gears of war become rusted...
In the Abyssal realm of Uligor the civil war between Orcus and the Thanatotic Titans had escalated to unseen proportions. Thanks to a mysterious ally from beyond known multiverse called The Machine Man, the titans now have access to knowledge of blasphemous technology capable of maim reality, forcing Orcus to seek help in champions of balance for deal with the crisis before the localized conflict compromises the whole existence!
Grease them with wrath and madness!
"When the Wand got broken" is a sandbox adventure which will take PCs from level 5 to 20 as well as imbue them with mythic power. In this super module you will find:
·A sandbox campaign in which the PCs will command armies, explore a war torn abyssal realm and even build a kingdom.
·Fight not only against hordes of demodands, demons and undead but also qlippoths, creatures coming from Lovecrafnian mythos and the Horde of the Lost, an army constituted from the soldiers of all the wars waged in planet Earth until WW1!
·New monsters and mighty foes, like the Old One Glaaki, Orcus and The Machine Man, avatar of Nyarlathotep!
·Expanded rules for aerial vehicles and monsters concerning dogfights.
·Divine spells, traits and information linked to the Greek pantheon.
·New and terrible powerful artifacts: from the reality bending Catachresis Engine to the most dreadful seen to date weapon in the multiverse, the Aklo Runic Atom Bomb!
It's worth noting that this intellectual property generosity occurred in the early days of D&D 3rd-edition, back before Hasbro bought WotC. I won't speculate on whether post-Hasbro WotC would have been equally generous, but I will trail off here knowingly...
Hasbro bought WotC almost a year before 3.0 was released, so all of that happened in post-Hasbro WotC :)
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's worth noting that this intellectual property generosity occurred in the early days of D&D 3rd-edition, back before Hasbro bought WotC. I won't speculate on whether post-Hasbro WotC would have been equally generous, but I will trail off here knowingly...Hasbro bought WotC almost a year before 3.0 was released, so all of that happened in post-Hasbro WotC :)
But the bulk of the work and philosophy and everything else about 3rd edition D&D was done before that—I was an employee before, during, and after the Hasbro purchase, and being a big fan of D&D at the time, I was pretty curious and observant about how that purchase was going to affect my favorite game. The Hasbro purchase was primarily for Pokemon and Magic stuff; if they were interested in D&D at all, it was for its licensing and brand potential. There were folks high up in Hasbro who, when they came out to WotC to introduce themselves and start the process of integration, were surprised to find out that WotC published books, in fact.
It's worth noting that this intellectual property generosity occurred in the early days of D&D 3rd-edition, back before Hasbro bought WotC. I won't speculate on whether post-Hasbro WotC would have been equally generous, but I will trail off here knowingly...
Hasbro bought WotC almost a year before 3.0 was released, so all of that happened in post-Hasbro WotC :)
But the bulk of the work and philosophy and everything else about 3rd edition D&D was done before that—I was an employee before, during, and after the Hasbro purchase, and being a big fan of D&D at the time, I was pretty curious and observant about how that purchase was going to affect my favorite game. The Hasbro purchase was primarily for Pokemon and Magic stuff; if they were interested in D&D at all, it was for its licensing and brand potential. There were folks high up in Hasbro who, when they came out to WotC to introduce themselves and start the process of integration, were surprised to find out that WotC published books, in fact.
The mind boggles a bit at that anecdote. On the other hand, how big a part did the D&D books play in WotC's profit statement/whatever back then?
|
|
On the other hand, how big a part did the D&D books play in WotC's profit statement/whatever back then?
I think you're answer probably best comes from what James said:
There were folks high up in Hasbro who, when they came out to WotC to introduce themselves and start the process of integration, were surprised to find out that WotC published books, in fact.
Compared to Pokemon and Magic, D&D was so insignificant that Hasbro didn't even realize they had obtained the rights to it.
Quaker Oats bought Snapple? Holy s~#$.
Bottom line: Orcus has had plenty of spotlight. Pazuzu was part of that movie. You know, the one about the Exorcism. There's plenty of other demon evil to draw from. Now, that Nocticula! She's got some nice "assets" to consider. I wouldn't mind helping her be redeemed!