What do you want from a Lost Omens: The Saga Lands?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

1 to 50 of 81 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

I’ll lead with an honest confession: the Saga Lands are my least-favorite of the Inner Sea’s Meta-Regions. Without any 1e nostalgia, Varisia and New Thassilon aren’t the beloved darlings others treat them as, while a lack of interest in all things Norse means the Linnorm Kings don’t catch my eye much at all. I’ve struggled to see Irrisen as much more than “Baba Yaga Land.” The Realm of the Mammoth Lords was previously a place I dismissed entirely, but Quest for the Frozen Flame forced me to see how cool it is.

So I come to these forums asking not only to hear your hopes, wishes, and fears for the region, but also to hopefully be sold on a part of Golarions others love that I don’t. What’s the hype? What does a potential 2e book do that hasn’t been done with the area before? Is there some niche, weirdo piece of lore you want expanded on?


9 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm interested about the Irrisen reform while still leaving as the "dark fairy tales" area, and also whether things are less hostile between Irrisen and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, which has some really interesting NPCs about.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Varisia is a fun place to adventure in, but the place probably does need time to recharge. If I was going to demand an adventure there my first thought is something in New Thassilon.

We have established mageocracies in Golarion, but Sorshen's New Thassilon is new and she's trying something relatively new in terms of societies with wizard heads of state: Not being a monster. And there's competition with the other Thassilon remnant state run by a much more overtly sinister Runelord. I doubt we'll get any Petty Wizard drama after touching on it with Geb and Nex down south, but hey I would love some petty wizard drama.

And, as soon as you bring up Sorshen, the amount of Alignment Threads on the Paizo boards go up so I get to have more fun.

Kaer Maga seems like a great place to have an adventure. Its as accepting of different peoples as Absalom, without the Aroden baggage.

In terms of content, I'd say we need some Gray Maiden stuff.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I will say, I’d be very glad for more info on the Varki. Nankou’s ascension to becoming a Linnorm King is a really fun development that I’d like to see expanded on further, and helps give that land a little more going on than vikings 24/7.

Doubly so if they’ve inherited the psychic traditions of their Erutaki cousins.


I'd second a big book on Kaer Maga. It got one in 1E, but so did Absalom and that didn't stop them. I like how offbeat and wild it can be, with all the disporat groups coming together for mutual protection. It got a real good glow-up in The Redemption Engine, as well, which really solidified my opinion of the place.

Past that I'm not too fussed about the region, but I'm always open to having my mind changed.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

They have Linnorms.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I'm interested about the Irrisen reform while still leaving as the "dark fairy tales" area, and also whether things are less hostile between Irrisen and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, which has some really interesting NPCs about.

Can you talk a little about what’s interesting in Irrisen for you? I’d love to hear.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

One of the recent PF scenarios there, uh Frosty Mugs? had

Spoiler:
Russian soldiers from earth that had been stranded there and a Winter Wolf and the PCs playing hockey.
That was fun.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I will say, I *desperately* want to see more of the Scarlet Rose. Filarina is one of my favorite NPCs, and her partner deserves better than she got in her 1e writeup (as a pretty bad parody of people with DID/“multiple personalities”).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've always loved the north of Avistan, with Land of the Mammoth Lords being a personal favourite (my second PFS character was from there). I'm excited to see more of Irrisen as well, and while Varisia and New Thassilon don't interest me that much a recent read into Winter Witch (the Pathfinder Tales book) had made me interested to see more about the Nolands, and how it has changed.


keftiu wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I'm interested about the Irrisen reform while still leaving as the "dark fairy tales" area, and also whether things are less hostile between Irrisen and the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, which has some really interesting NPCs about.
Can you talk a little about what’s interesting in Irrisen for you? I’d love to hear.

So like my very favorite AD&D Module was Dungeonland (EX1), and I adore "riff on a story that everybody already knows" as an adventure theme. Irrisen is the place where you have a land of eternal winter and a bunch of witches in cottages and wolves who eat grandmothers so it's a fun playground for that sort of thing.

It's also the magocracy that's less fundamentally irredeemable than Nex or Geb. Don't get me wrong, it's a deeply oppressive place but there's no reason that can't change. It's sort of like Ustalav in that way, but more whimsical.

Radiant Oath

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Perpdepog wrote:

I'd second a big book on Kaer Maga. It got one in 1E, but so did Absalom and that didn't stop them. I like how offbeat and wild it can be, with all the disporat groups coming together for mutual protection. It got a real good glow-up in The Redemption Engine, as well, which really solidified my opinion of the place.

Past that I'm not too fussed about the region, but I'm always open to having my mind changed.

Seconded, Kaer Maga always seemed more the "cool" metropolis compared to Absalom for me because of all the unique people and factions there, and The Redemption Engine only solidified that, even if it DID give canon answers to some of the things that were originally left as mysteries for GMs to hang plot hooks on...

One of my dream games has always been to do a kind of slice-of-life campaign set in Kaer Maga with some sort of bar as the hub.


Here’s a question: what new Ancestries are in the region? This is where I’m pretty clueless on 1e info, so I really don’t know what’s here.

They’re supposed to be further north, but I’d love to see Adlets sneak into this via the region’s north. I love the hints that they’re the wolf-y cousins of Kitsune, their cold magic rocks, I’d like to see their cultural cannibalism explored, and Pathfinder could stand to have a non-pug canine Ancestry of some sort.

I also know there’s… Varisian, Shoanti, Varki, and Ulfen humans, orcs out of Belkzen, Ilverani elves, that one gnome settlement, frost goblins, and those cool lynx amurrun. Who am I missing?

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Linnormblooded >_>


6 people marked this as a favorite.

A Troll or Troll blooded ancestry would be neat. There's a strong tradition of Troll fortune tellers in Kaer Maga that offer a lot of interesting possibilities.

Of course, turning a Troll into a playable ancestry would mean it wouldn't be able to regenerate, so that's actually kind of pointless.

Radiant Oath

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Kasoh wrote:

A Troll or Troll blooded ancestry would be neat. There's a strong tradition of Troll fortune tellers in Kaer Maga that offer a lot of interesting possibilities.

Of course, turning a Troll into a playable ancestry would mean it wouldn't be able to regenerate, so that's actually kind of pointless.

That'd be incredibly cool. Given how open most Kaer Magans are to all kinds of relationships and people, it wouldn't be out of the question for maybe someone falling in love with an Augur and her having a troll-blooded kid (the majority of Augurs are troll women, as troll men tend to be...charitably put, difficult...and don't manifest the Augurs' "unique powers," so they only really admit them to their compound specifically WHEN they want to have kids, there's only ONE male Augur and he's something of a savant because he actually CAN see the future, whereas the majority of the Augurs are just very good information brokers with a very dramatic gimmick they use to give their realpolitick a veneer of mystical gravitas).


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
whereas the majority of the Augurs are just very good information brokers with a very dramatic gimmick they use to give their realpolitick a veneer of mystical gravitas).

You have to appreciate the commitment to the bit.


9 people marked this as a favorite.

I think the most I want out of it is a write up on the local ancestries and ethnicities with the same respect put into the recent Mwangi Expanse book. I don't know about the cultures that Varisians and Shoanti are based on to know if the older books are at all problematic, so I'd rather have modern Paizo's write up on them, who have shown they're willing to put in the effort represent those cultures as best as they can.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kasoh wrote:

A Troll or Troll blooded ancestry would be neat. There's a strong tradition of Troll fortune tellers in Kaer Maga that offer a lot of interesting possibilities.

Of course, turning a Troll into a playable ancestry would mean it wouldn't be able to regenerate, so that's actually kind of pointless.

Trollkin of some sort would be a real treat. I’ve had a soft spot for them since I got into Eberron, where they’re vitally important citizens in the land of Droaam (where volunteers utilize regeneration to feed the nation’s poor).


7 people marked this as a favorite.
keftiu wrote:
Kasoh wrote:

A Troll or Troll blooded ancestry would be neat. There's a strong tradition of Troll fortune tellers in Kaer Maga that offer a lot of interesting possibilities.

Of course, turning a Troll into a playable ancestry would mean it wouldn't be able to regenerate, so that's actually kind of pointless.

Trollkin of some sort would be a real treat. I’ve had a soft spot for them since I got into Eberron, where they’re vitally important citizens in the land of Droaam (where volunteers utilize regeneration to feed the nation’s poor).
Black Jimmy wrote:
I think the most I want out of it is a write up on the local ancestries and ethnicities with the same respect put into the recent Mwangi Expanse book. I don't know about the cultures that Varisians and Shoanti are based on to know if the older books are at all problematic, so I'd rather have modern Paizo's write up on them, who have shown they're willing to put in the effort represent those cultures as best as they can.

My first thread on these forums was voicing frustrations with how closely the Varisians hew to pop culture stereotypes and caricatures of the Romani people; I’d love to see them done right here.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I want land of the linnorm kings if only bc it would be an appropriate spot for a sea fairing island hopping campaign. Jason and the argonauts in viking land would be a pretty cool adventure I think.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Having dug into it some recently, I've come to quite like what a melting pot Kalsgard is; Ulfen, Varki, Tian, and Varisian humans all rub shoulders here, and the city has significant populations of dwarves and gnomes. A lot of faux-Norse fantasy loses me with how one-note it can be, but all this variety is a lot of fun.

I hope the Frozen Shadows can limp along as a thieves' guild after the events of Jade Regent, though - a gang of ninjas in the middle of the Fantasy Viking capital is the kind of gonzo I come to Pathfinder for. Where are they getting all those tengu recruits, anyway?

Radiant Oath

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Honestly, I've had a character concept of playing one of the last Frozen Shadows traveling from Kalsgard disguised as a mercenary, desperately seeking a purpose in life now that their clan is almost all gone and the ones who did it now seemingly untouchable on the other side of the world...until their travels take them to a little village called Heldren and they find themselves drawn into the Reign of Winter AP, their skills serving them uniquely well on the journey, finding a kind of redemption and becoming a hero in spite of themselves...I've wanted to play that for YEARS.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Honestly, I've had a character concept of playing one of the last Frozen Shadows traveling from Kalsgard disguised as a mercenary, desperately seeking a purpose in life now that their clan is almost all gone and the ones who did it now seemingly untouchable on the other side of the world...until their travels take them to a little village called Heldren and they find themselves drawn into the Reign of Winter AP, their skills serving them uniquely well on the journey, finding a kind of redemption and becoming a hero in spite of themselves...I've wanted to play that for YEARS.

I /love/ that! What Ancestry are they?

Radiant Oath

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Honestly, I've had a character concept of playing one of the last Frozen Shadows traveling from Kalsgard disguised as a mercenary, desperately seeking a purpose in life now that their clan is almost all gone and the ones who did it now seemingly untouchable on the other side of the world...until their travels take them to a little village called Heldren and they find themselves drawn into the Reign of Winter AP, their skills serving them uniquely well on the journey, finding a kind of redemption and becoming a hero in spite of themselves...I've wanted to play that for YEARS.
I /love/ that! What Ancestry are they?

Human, of mixed Tian-Min and Ulfen ancestry.


9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I really love the incredibly mobile feeling of the Saga Lands, and how remote it is from the rest of the Inner Sea.

Varisia in particular I'm eager to see more of – its wilderness most of all:

This region is practically a world within a world, capable of existing as a setting even without the rest of Golarion. Unlike even the River Kingdoms, the vast majority of this region is entirely unclaimed by any great power. It is to Avistan what the Forest of Spirits is to Tian Xia or the Mwangi Jungle is to Garund, in that the people inhabiting this land make no effort of scale to subjugate it, but live generally in harmony with its splendor. Its people are similarly free-spirited: the nomadic Varisians, deftly navigating the wilderness in colorful caravans along paths both ancestral and fluid, as they exchange news and luxury goods and skilled labor and insatiably explore every corner of the fantastical cities, romantic villages, ruins and sacred sites of both the past and the present that make up their ever-changing homeland. The Shoanti, who have stood strong against two empires of expansion and survived them both, look to ancestral wisdom in traditions and rites as they prevail against an unforgiving home, spread across seven great nation-quahs. Settlers from the north – Tian, Ulfen, Erutaki, and other travelers from across the frozen pole – from the south – pioneers eager to escape the thrall of imperial Cheliax – the east – tradespeople and mercenaries from the proud orcish lands of Belkzen – and across the ocean from the west, remnants of the offshoot empire of ancient Azlant, whose arcane ruins and architecture from its age of power still dot the wilds of the land, filled with secrets, treasure, and otherworldly artifacts. Elves hail from the haunted pines of the Mierani Forest, dwarves from iron-walled Janderhoff high in the mountains, gnomes from secret enclaves in Sanos, halflings from nomadic clans traveling the plains, and goblins from numerous tribes along the coast.

The land is itself one of the most ecologically diverse places in Golarion, filled with hauntingly beautiful landmarks to remember: Take the Sunken Queen in the Mushfens, a forbidden pyramid featuring an immense bas-relief of a beautiful maiden, submerged in gloomy swamps; The Mobhad Leigh: "Steps into Hell" – a yawning pit lined with a suspiciously-constructed stairway descending the lightless depths of the Varisian Darklands, within which lurk psychic aberrations, pacified vampires, and machinating serpentfolk; The Kodar Mountains: some of the highest peaks in all of Golarion, where lies the lost city of Xin-Shalast, whose path is watched by yeti, impossibly-sized rocs, rune giants, and even more mysterious guardians; Or the Cinderlands: a volcanic, desert-like badlands populated by three great quahs, who prove their strength against the black blizzards of emberstorms and the fiery grasslands. This is all to say nothing of Varisia's own breathtaking urban environments: fantastical cities like Magnimar (gazed upon by the Irespan and an angelic, ghostly watcher), Korvosa (a gothic city of conquest, erected around an ancient Shoanti holy site), Riddleport (a dockside haven of thieves and pirates) – and Edasseril, a city of time travelers – who have disproportionately received the bulk of attention from published material. Even small towns are bursting with enough energy to fill entire books: such as Windsong Abbey – the "United Nations of Inner Sea's religions," or Sandpoint – a charming coastal village populated with such zany personalities, scandalous rumors, and creepy urban myths (like the Sandpoint Devil) that it feels like it could mesh seamlessly with an episode of Scooby-Doo. There are so many beautiful places and people and mysteries in Varisia to explore ... the vast majority of which have been nearly untouched. This all despite the fact the region has received several books and APs so far – although each one has usually hyper-fixated on one or two very specific locations, leaving the region as a whole only barely described across a few player's companions and a minimalist article from ISWG. There's magic and mystery here to rival the most memorable atmosphere and scenery from the likes of Hyrule or Spira or Witcher's Northern Kingdoms – and we've barely grazed the tip of this iceberg. Varisia has produced some of Pathfinder's most unique, iconic imagery, like Seoni's elegant tattoos, the shattered star of the Sihedron, or the rune-marked arch of Riddleport's Cyphergate – and I hope Pathfinder 2e will give it a similar chance to leave its indelible mark.

There's this quality about the whole of the metaregion – it's really hard to stay in one place. Realm of the Mammoth Lords are populated mostly by nomads, the Lands of the Linnorm Kings see passage of trade from the Path of Aghanei and machiavellian intrigue and warfare between feuding houses, Irrisen combines monster-ruled Droamm from Eberron with dark faerie tale horror that keeps adventurers constantly on their toes, and Varisia/New Thassilon's region is mostly wilderness, with remote, magical metropolises forming inflection points between energetic trade routes. All the while, the Mordant Spire (watching over sunken Azlanti Ruins) and the Crown of the World (Golarion's north pole) creep at the western and northernmost edges of its wilderness, giving a hint of even stranger landscapes. This book is the campaign setting book for wilderness adventures set in Avistan, with special attention paid to arctic adventures lit beneath the polar skies of an aurora borealis. The place is also one of Inner Sea's most diverse locations – rivaling the likes of Absalom and Garund's Golden Road – being connected via land bridge to Tian Xia on the other side of the world. There are numerous genres this region eagerly sinks its teeth into, and it bears an aesthetic quality and atmosphere to it in numerous locations that feels uniquely Golarion, unlike anything else I've seen in a ttrpg.

Really, most all I want from a Saga Lands book is for it to just be more of itself. It's a land haunted by legends and ghosts and fables – of runelords and witches, of frozen flames and linnorm-slayers – history itself here is captured as much by myth as it is by textbook. I love that oral, dreamy quality about its culture, that the present remains so inexorably bound to the past, fact and fiction seem so frustratingly indistinguishable, and time itself seems to break in this land. I love the free-spiritedness of its people, its cosmopolitan composition, its will to endure through every calamity just to see what the sun will look like when it rises tomorrow. Give me a book that will leave both myself and my character incapable of sitting in one place for five minutes – and I'll be happy to say you've given me a book that does justice to the Saga Lands.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Slightly off-topic, but am I the only one who reads Frozen Shadows and instantly thinks of Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat?

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Opsylum wrote:
I really love the incredibly mobile feeling of the Saga Lands, and how remote it is from the rest of the Inner Sea. ** spoiler omitted **...

Wow. Many thanks for that beautiful wall of text. I read it all.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Opsylum wrote:
I really love the incredibly mobile feeling of the Saga Lands, and how remote it is from the rest of the Inner Sea. ** spoiler omitted **...

Opsylum, you're consistently one of my favorite posters on these forums. Thank you so much for this! Even if I'm a lot of it still isn't my preferred style or flavor, I can see the joy in it now - as I think I told Zousha for his gushing about Brevoy, every bit of the setting would be lucky to have a cheerleader like you.

On a wholly unrelated note: while we know some Linnorn Kings sail for Arcadia and Valenhall further on, but has anyone ever come back? I'd really enjoy if a few Mahwek lived in the city, or some Ulfen had come back with stories and carved figures to share with Avistan.

EDIT: There's an old 1e tidbit on Ulfen ancestor spirits that Mahwek Mediums have learned to conjure, and part of me wonders if there's a way to tastefully have that practice flow both ways over the sea. An Ulfen calling on the legend of some famous Arcadian hunter or anti-Razatlani hero to aid them in battle? I'm all over it.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think we need the Medium in PF2 first in order to get this.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Ah geez, thanks everyone. Making me blush. Seriously, Paizo's creators are the best artists and storytellers around. I could go on all day about most any corner of the setting — there aren't that many places I don’t genuinely adore. Saga Lands is pretty personal though, and Sandpoint especially. So happy to have been introduced to this beautiful community and franchise.

keftiu wrote:
On a wholly unrelated note: while we know some Linnorn Kings sail for Arcadia and Valenhall further on, but has anyone ever come back? I'd really enjoy if a few Mahwek lived in the city, or some Ulfen had come back with stories and carved figures to share with Avistan...

You know, I would really like that idea of yours, having more cultural exchange from Arcadia toward Avistan's direction. That continent is in a weird place: part of its thing is that it seems a little more advanced technologically and socially than the rest of the world (even able to coordinate diverse factions to quarantine and regulate external colonization efforts when those happened), and the place seems content being a little more isolated than the rest of the world. The other major continents — Avistan, Casmaron, Garund, and Tian Xia — all have some degree of direct access to each other whether across a single ocean or the Path of Aganhei — but Arcadia's pretty remote even by these standards. It directly borders only eastern Tian Xia (which has enough going on to discourage much foreign adventurism), lacks land access to either pole, and has a shattered continent of islands with an ominous reputation between it and Avistan/Garund to the east. A journey between Arcadia and Casmaron would be especially long. The Guns & Gears trade map (which had some pretty hilarious errors, so should probably be taken with a grain of salt) showed only two intercontinental trade routes between Tian Xia and Arcadia (meeting at Minkai and Minata), and just nothing going on eastward towards Avistan. I haven't even heard of any eastward Arcadian colonization efforts aside from the Caldaru peoples and the strix — both of which happened a really long time ago (I think even before the fall of Azlant), such that they've pretty much forgotten any prior connection they had with their ancestral lands.

All this...makes it sort of tricky to just declare to your GM, say: "I'm going to play a Mahwek in your Goldren Road campaign." There's not really anything stopping you — there's just also not much opportunity for a Mahwek character to find much of anything familiar so far from Arcadia, which limits your GM toolbox. This is, again, much less an issue for characters coming from literally almost anywhere else, because Golarion as a whole is surprisingly thoroughly integrated culturally, whether through trade or conquest or religion or what-have-you.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. A fun part of Arcadia's setting is that it's still a relative enigma to the rest of the world (which gives creatives even more narrative flexibility to tell the kind of stories they want to there). It's just also a little inconvenient sometimes. My brother-in-law (who is Mexican) originally wanted to play one of Golarion's analogues of his culture, which we both lamented to discover was probably to be found pretty far away from the place where we were having our adventure (Possibly Land of Second Souls? It seems like there might be a Día de Muertos-inspired thing going on out there). He ultimately decided to play a (hilarious) dwarf champion of Iomedae.

All that rambling to say — I'd dearly love to see more Arcadian action closer to the Inner Sea's corner of the world. It would make sense to see a little more, too — what with recently warm relations between Valenhall and nearby native Arcadian populations, Arazni getting more active, recent successful colonization efforts in old Azlant, and the growing role of gunpowder in global trade. It really seems like it's all just a matter of time. Land of the Linnorm Kings and Northwestern Garund both seem like pretty ripe territories to explore future Arcadia-Inner Sea interactions. Native Americans and Vikings made for one of the coolest crossovers ever in our own world's history.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I really appreciate the prominence Kazutal’s been given in 2e materials, but I’m still pretty fuzzy on *how* her cult crossed the ocean to the Inner Sea region, and what (if any!) other bits of Arcadian culture has managed to reach. Options to make Arcadian characters a little more plausible (the same way that we have Qadira and Jalmeray for Keleshite and Vudran characters, or groups in Kalsgard and the Shackles for Tian-Min) would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Before anyone says “but the Caldaru exist,” we don’t know much about them still, and their link to Arcadia is thousands of years past, to the point where some materials imply the folk of Senghor don’t even /know/ they’re an Arcadian people. I’d like something a little more current and connected.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Opsylum wrote:
I haven't even heard of any eastward Arcadian colonization efforts aside from the Caldaru peoples and the strix — both of which happened a really long time ago (I think even before the fall of Azlant), such that they've pretty much forgotten any prior connection they had with their ancestral lands.

The Mwangi Expanse book says the Caldaru arrived in 2603 AR, so long after the fall of Azlant, but still over 2,000 years ago.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
I think we need the Medium in PF2 first in order to get this.

I'd be quite pleased to have them back, and there's been several mentions of them across various PF2 texts.

A divine book double feature with a reimagined Medium and Inquisitor, alongside LN and CN Champions... a girl can dream :)

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
keftiu wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
I think we need the Medium in PF2 first in order to get this.

I'd be quite pleased to have them back, and there's been several mentions of them across various PF2 texts.

A divine book double feature with a reimagined Medium and Inquisitor, alongside LN and CN Champions... a girl can dream :)

I would love this, and TN Champions too.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
keftiu wrote:

I really appreciate the prominence Kazutal’s been given in 2e materials, but I’m still pretty fuzzy on *how* her cult crossed the ocean to the Inner Sea region, and what (if any!) other bits of Arcadian culture has managed to reach. Options to make Arcadian characters a little more plausible (the same way that we have Qadira and Jalmeray for Keleshite and Vudran characters, or groups in Kalsgard and the Shackles for Tian-Min) would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Before anyone says “but the Caldaru exist,” we don’t know much about them still, and their link to Arcadia is thousands of years past, to the point where some materials imply the folk of Senghor don’t even /know/ they’re an Arcadian people. I’d like something a little more current and connected.

Kazutal strikes me as one of the most badass gods in all of Pathfinder. She started out kind of sounding like Arcadia's own analogue to Asmodeus, a vanguard of conquest and empire, granting her divine powers to the armies of Razatlan as they fought to subjugate the Arcadian continent. Had this conflict persevered, Arcadia may well look like southern Avistan today, best case scenario.

And then...she had enough. Much as our own world came to the table and worked to talk through our differences after witnessing the devastating potential of nuclear war, Kazutal – witnessing the scale of destruction and desolation caused by war – was provoked to take a long look at what it was she really valued. While it's unknown exactly what moved her, it seems she ultimately decided what she really cared about is people – all people.

Her efforts probably helped to transform the very fate of the land. Seated at the head of the greatest power on the continent, she turned her gaze to the lost and the downtrod, granting inspiration to those she had formerly opposed, and worked relentlessly to build communities across the land that held power in check, and worked for the common folk instead of against them. It's one of the most shocking 180° spins in Golarion's lore, in my eyes. She was quite possibly the big bad. And now she's doing everything she can to tear down everything she built so that the people she formerly oppressed can build up something better in her stead.

Possibly because of her efforts (both the bad and the good), Razatlan's neighbors have learned the skills necessary to put aside their differences for pragmatic purposes, and are capable of coordinating very effectively to accomplish mutual objectives – even mustering the strength necessary to obliterate Avistan's imperial aspirations for the continent almost immediately after they began. That's really, really cool.

It makes sense to me that as a consequence to her success shaping Arcadia's geopolitics into something more hopeful, she'd heed the call of other civilizations struggling with strife and division with some sympathy – especially since some of these same civilizations put themselves in Arcadia's business in the first place. One of the interesting things about playing in a world where gods are demonstrably real is that evangelism doesn't have to be the only factor that contributes to a religion's spread. The gods themselves are capable of gazing wherever pleases them, as Kazutal apparently did with the Matanji orcs (Garund seems to have other familial connections with Arcadia aside – Balumbdar has a sibling more commonly worshipped on Arcadia, for example). That growing influence of her faith is probably the Inner Sea's strongest connection to Arcadia, at this point, which is fun. Honestly, it'd be kind of fun to have a Mahwek character be this benevolent doppelganger to Christopher Columbus – an eccentric explorer discovering and recording sensational stories about the strange, wild lands in the east, spreading the holy word of Kazutal to civilizations struggling with civility (and setting up small immigrant communities and trading outposts behind them). Be fun to see Europe's stand-in be portrayed as "The New World" for a change. Not in a derogatory, colonial sense, mind. Just in the sense that it's this strange, bewildering place where people behave so differently from what's normal, believe such baffling things, wear such bizarrely impractical clothing, and eat food...that actually isn't that bad. I might take some home with me.

Just saying, I'd love to play an AP about Arcadian explorers journeying into the east. One of the devs (James Jacobs, I think?) mentioned there was an adventure idea involving the party being a group of explorers seeking to make a complete circuit around the globe, "Around the World in 180 Days" style. If that happens (and it would be my favorite AP ever, btw), I humbly petition it start in Arcadia, or at least occur in the context of adventuring with a company of Arcadian explorers. That'd be the freaking coolest.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

From the above, Kazutal makes me think of Aroden.

Too bad he died before having the chance to make up for his mistakes, leaving others to shoulder this weight.


Wasn’t the turning point for Kazutal the horror of Earthfall? I don’t know that I’d call that war, given that most have no idea it was an algollthu act.

I still adore Kazutal, and love the rest of you post (I’m here for any and all APs where we play Arcadian heroes), just wanted to nitpick that one point :>


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
keftiu wrote:

Wasn’t the turning point for Kazutal the horror of Earthfall? I don’t know that I’d call that war, given that most have no idea it was an algollthu act.

I still adore Kazutal, and love the rest of you post (I’m here for any and all APs where we play Arcadian heroes), just wanted to nitpick that one point :>

The conflict struck me as basically a war between several of Golarion's gods and the alghollthu. The alghollthu wanted to rule humanity, humanity disagreed, gods intervened, planet almost broke. This beautiful world Kazutal had built was this close to being obliterated in a moment, like all the worlds she had been enabling Razatlan to bulldoze over in their ambitions to rule Arcadia.

I suppose you're right though – Kazutal might not necessarily have recognized Earthfall as a war specifically. Referencing the relevant texts in question:

Gods & Magic:
Gods & Magic wrote:
Kazutal, also known as Mother Jaguar or Lady Jaguar, is an old deity, revered for thousands of years on the continent of Arcadia. Ages ago, she was worshipped in the Razatlani Empire as a goddess of might and protection in war. After the catastrophe of Earthfall, however, her edge softened; those who struggled to put the world back together called upon her to protect their neighbors and came together under her guidance to build strong bonds of community and support.

Faiths of Golarion:
Faiths of Golarion wrote:

Kazutal, also known as Lady Jaguar, Mother

Jaguar, and She of Grace and Might, was
worshipped differently thousands of years
ago. In ancient times, the Razatlani spread across
Arcadia, subjugating other peoples and establishing their
own rigid and tyrannical empire. The Razatlani prayed to
Kazutal for strength in battle and protection from injury,
much as people do today, but few considered her a goddess
who cared at all for society or freedom. In this age of chaos
and warfare, most of Kazutal’s worship was focused on
military might, until the catastrophe of Earthfall disrupted
the grasp of the Razatlani Empire.

After Earthfall, Kazutal’s surviving clergy used their
forces to help other survivors make it through the first few
centuries of darkness. Since people depended upon their
neighbors to survive, they called on Kazutal’s strength to
protect every member of the community, as the loss of
one person could spell the death of the rest. Through
these efforts, a stronger bond of friendship and family
blossomed in Kazutal’s church. She became a guardian
among the ashes, a patron of defense instead of war. Her
church grew during that dark time, as her followers sought
to unite Arcadia’s survivors in the far reaches where the
Razatlani Empire had expanded ages ago.

Kazutal recognizes the importance of improving
connections and relationships within a community
as the pinnacle of proper protection, for a society with
strong community bonds can withstand the worst
assaults. Her concept of community revolves around
a sense of solidarity and responsibility; actual laws are
of less importance, and the restraints of any oppressive
dogma must be torn down. Kazutal’s priests teach that
only a free and open society can truly be strong—cultures
that harbor internal hatreds will destroy themselves
when placed under pressure.

From the latter text, we have a small insight as to what ultimately motivated her change of heart – as a goddess of protection, she wants to protect her family, and that involved learning to cooperate with other people. Whether Kazutal regarded Earthfall as a war of deific magnitude or simply an environmental extinction event is ultimately up in the air, and probably doesn't impact her character arc too much either way. That said, looking back you're absolutely right in calling out that inference on my part. Thanks for the correction. Whatever the case, I'm intrigued to learn more about Kazutal's character and motivations in future adventures.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I can’t help but smile when I imagine a little shrine to Kazutal tucked away in some corner of Kalsgard, decorated in carved jade (most likely from Tian Xia, rather than her Arcadian home) and lynx pelts (no jaguars that far north).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Are there Giants in the region? I have to assume so. Sneaking in some sort of playable giantkin would be a real treat, and it’s the easiest thing in the world to imagine Heritages for them.

Trollkin and Giantkin… this could be the land of the Big Boys.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

You absolutely have giants there, I go so far as to say it’s Giant central in Golarion.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Having just read about them for the first time, winter wolves seem like a slam dunk of an Ancestry; they’re part of Irrisen’s population, can take humanoid form like Anadi or Kitsune, and offer a non-Shoony canine player option!

If I had to pick between them and Adlets, I’d go for the latter, but if PF2 can support three construct and two snake Ancestries, we can overlap some on this, too.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I haven't played Reign of Winter myself yet, but I know just from word of mouth alone that Greta the Winter Wolf basically became the favorite NPC of anyone who has played it. :P

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

As Finnish person, I think more people need to experience pains of mild winters and mild summers (and then climate change changing that and giving us 30 celsius in summer aaaaaaaaah I'm melting currently) :p

I would like to note that winter wolves normally can't take humanoid form, that one city in Irrisen just has spell cast on it that allows it during the area.

Acquisitives

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

-relics of the forgotten runelords

-more on these new, self-proclaimed runelords

-hints about what the fate of the heroes of the sihedron might have been, and what might be the lingering impacts of Sorshen's failed time plot?

-shoanti stuff


6 people marked this as a favorite.
CorvusMask wrote:
I would like to note that winter wolves normally can't take humanoid form, that one city in Irrisen just has spell cast on it that allows it during the area.

This is easily spun into "years of exposure to the magical energy in Whitethrone and Redtooth that allowed their ancestors to take humanoid form, occasional winter wolf pups retain this ability beyond the boundaries of these cities."

Which you then expand into these rare winter wolves are less immediately powerful than the traditional versions, but have more potential that we've seen with multiple ancestries like Sprites and Strix.


Are there any dwarven cultures in the region? Recent material on Garund has made me significantly warm up to the stout folk, but I think more traditional frozen mountain miners might just never be my thing.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd really like them to flesh out the culture of the Land of the Linnorm Kings the way that they did with the Mwangi Expanse (my favorite Lost Omens book so far). In PF1 it was pretty much left as a caricature of ancient Scandinavian culture where everyone is a Viking warrior.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
I'd really like them to flesh out the culture of the Land of the Linnorm Kings the way that they did with the Mwangi Expanse (my favorite Lost Omens book so far). In PF1 it was pretty much left as a caricature of ancient Scandinavian culture where everyone is a Viking warrior.

Helping the northern bits feel more distinct from "Viking Land," "Russia Land," and "Neolithic Land" would be nice - and Quest for the Frozen Flame helped a lot in that regard!

1 to 50 of 81 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / What do you want from a Lost Omens: The Saga Lands? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.