Can I Give Away / Republish My Entry?

[Jester David]

As per the title: if I want to, can I have my RPG Superstar entry published elsewhere?

The rules of the contest say: All entries become the property of Paizo Publishing, LLC.
The above seems pretty clear cut, but often appears in Terms & Conditions and exists for places such as message boards, so companies are not sued for incorporating ideas posting on forums (or releasing content very similar to ideas posted on forums).
So it seems like the standard protection for Paizo, in the event they publish an item similar to a submission in six months.

Does that mean they own it now and forever even if they never look twice at it again?
Is there a policy or precedent for people using their submissions elsewhere?
Is there a way to circumvent this and site RPG Superstar/ Paizo.com as an OGL source?

I ask because a do a webcomic/ blog (obligatory link) and post occasional RPG content. I was considering posting some magic items in the future, and would like to use my RPG Superstar item - which I like even if no one else did. ;)
But I'd rather not break contest rules.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Jester David wrote:

As per the title: if I want to, can I have my RPG Superstar entry published elsewhere?

As it was submitted? No, because of the copyright/property rule. You could try to get Paizo's permission to republish it on your blog. I'm not sure there's really a precedent for that.

The rules don't release submissions to OGL or Community Use or any other license.

If you substantially modify the item, you may be able to reuse or republish it elsewhere as a new unique work.

[Jacob W. Michaels]

Could you simply link to it on Paizo's site? (Assuming you put it in the Critique thread.)

[Maurice de Mare]

No you can't publish it, you signed it away when you submitted.

You are a designer, design something else.

[Saint Caleth]

It is basically down the black hole of IP law at this point.

I would recommend re-adapting the central idea of your entry as something new if you are that attached to it.

[Jester David]

Maurice de Mare wrote:

No you can't publish it, you signed it away when you submitted.

You are a designer, design something else.

Sadly I'm not.

Cooking dinner does not make you a chef.

I quite liked my item, despite it not even being Top 100 quality. I wonder if a little development work could make it that little extra but better, looking at what feedback I recieved. I'd rather not have it just vanish into "a black hole of IP law."

[Garrick Williams]

Make a substantial revision and then re-publish it.

[Liz Courts]

RPG Superstar Rules wrote:

All entries become the property of Paizo Publishing, LLC.

This is all that needs to be said.

Jester David wrote:

Does that mean they own it now and forever even if they never look twice at it again?

Yes.

Jester David wrote:

Is there a policy or precedent for people using their submissions elsewhere?

Not that I'm aware of, but we have re-used some Top 32 entries in Ultimate Equipment, I believe.

Jester David wrote:

Is there a way to circumvent this and site RPG Superstar/ Paizo.com as an OGL source?

No. When you submitted your entry to RPG Superstar, it became the property of Paizo Publishing.

Jester David wrote:

But I'd rather not break contest rules.

Please do not. :D

To round this off with some explanation, when you are under contract for Paizo Publishing (or quite a few others), it is work-for-hire. Your turnover, once it leaves your computer, is no longer yours. It now belongs to whomever contracted you to write it, and barring any terms in the contract, you can't re-use it.

[Azouth]

So how much would you need to change, for it to be different?

[Jester David]

Liz Courts wrote:

To round this off with some explanation, when you are under contract for Paizo Publishing (or quite a few others), it is work-for-hire. Your turnover, once it leaves your computer, is no longer yours. It now belongs to whomever contracted you to write it, and barring any terms in the contract, you can't re-use it.

True. But, for the sake of discussion, when under contract you're compensated for your work. We're not (other than a 3-in-a-1000+ chance of doing a PFS scenario and a 1:1000+ chance of writing a module).

RPG Superstar is pretty much a replacement for the magazine slush pile; we're essentially sending in pitches. If sending article/ story pitches to a magazine or other publisher they don't hold it indefinitely but return the rights after a set time.

We're not just sending in any old idea, we're submitting our best idea. Something we worked on potentially for a year. And we're just giving it away. It's nice to think about future publication, but it's doubtful Paizo is going to do an Ultimate Equiment 2. And even if they do there will be literally hundreds of better items than mine.
Feels a shame to just throw it away.

Maybe it's just because I'm blanking on new ideas that I think are "good enough" for next year, and am feeling melancholy over the time I wasted, and am trying to find a way to justify it to myself.

[Sean K Reynolds]

This question comes up every year.

Here is a lengthy post by me about it.

And here's Clark's excellent post right after that.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

This question comes up every year.

Here is a lengthy post by me about it.

And here's Clark's excellent post right after that.

Wait, now I'm confused. Are our submissions covered under the OGL?

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

So, if you wanted to quote your own submitted item under the OGL and attribute it to Paizo, I think that's allowed.

I was under the impression they explicitly were not.

Vic Wertz wrote:

The Top 32 are, by necessity, published under the OGL, but the other entries haven't necessarily been published at all. Unless, that is, Wizards would consider the actual act of submission as publication, but I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Granting exceptions is a can of worms that shall not be opened.

[Curaigh]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

This question comes up every year.

Here is a lengthy post by me about it.

And here's Clark's excellent post right after that.

I miss Clark. Thanks for that small taste :)

[Sean K Reynolds]

Vic corrected my post partway down; it's not clear legally if the submissions have been "published," and therefore unclear whether the OGL applies.

[Tripp Elliott]

My takeaway from this is that as a Top 32, I've been published under the OGL!

What does that make my Gygax number? 2? 3?

Any chance it improved my Erdos number from the 6 or 7 I suspect it is?

[Jester David]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

This question comes up every year.

I checked the FAQ and there was nothing and did a half-dozen forum searches with no solid results.

Oops.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Here is a lengthy post by me about it.

And here's Clark's excellent post right after that.

Interesting.

This argument feels a little weaker now that we have the public voting and the judges are likely spending far less time judging, while so many of the public sacrificed hours of free time to judge.
I do appreciate your time. Thank you for doing this contest. Thank you very much.

It's not that I've never written anything no one will see. I've done some unpublished work for Dragon that didn't quite made it before the magazines slashed 4e content. And I've written at least a half-dozen short stories and a couple novels that aren't likely to see print outside of self-publication.
And I give away stuff on my blog all the time (including game mechanics). My blog is essentially an endlessly deep hole where I throw time (and money) I don't want any more.

But RPG Superstar demands the best item. You don't submit your second or third best wondrous item for RPG Superstar saving the true gems to use elsewhere. It's not just any work-for-hire but an item you might have mused about, finesses, and rewritten in your head for a year. Right now, as I type this, there are people brainstorming their submission for RPG Superstar 2015. It's the ultimate pet idea.
And it's gone. No one from Paizo ever even saw it because it was not Top 100.

To everyone else it may be an $18 item but it's so much more than that to me.

Not being a lawyer I'm not sure how much I would have to change to repurpose the idea. Would rewriting the entire item be enough? Would changing it to a different ruleset (like D&D Next) work?

[Azouth]

Jester David wrote:

Not being a lawyer I'm not sure how much I would have to change to repurpose the idea. Would rewriting the entire item be enough? Would changing it to a different ruleset (like D&D Next) work?

That is what I would like to know to how much would you need to change. If I am to believe what James Jacobs says in a post in that thread

James Jacobs wrote:

As for RPG Superstar... what Paizo doesn't want is the following possibility:

John Doe sends in his item to RPG Superstar 2013: a "hat of invisibility" that turns you invisible when you put the hat on. It's one of several hundred or thousand or so items folks submit, and since it's a spell-in-a-can, it gets rejected and is not one of the 32 finalists.

Then, in 2023, when Paizo publishes "Ultimate Headwear," a big book of magic hats, one of the hats ends up being a "hat of invisibility" that turns you invisible when you put the hat on.

The designer of the 2023 hat wasn't aware of the original hat designed by John Doe back in 2013, because the designer wasn't a judge (and thus never saw the hundreds or thousands of items that didn't make it into the top 32), or even if he WAS a judge, didn't remember it since he's waded through TENS of thousands of failed items over the past 10 years of RPG Superstar.

Book goes to print, John Doe buys the book, sees a hat of invisibility in the book. John Doe, of course, remembers perfectly clearly his own hat designed for RPG Superstar 2013, so he sues Paizo for stealing his idea.

Whether or not his lawsuit is successful or not... it costs Paizo money. It costs Paizo time. It costs Paizo public perception. It hurts Paizo in some way or another, even though the idea itself was coincidentally identical to the original design... and the design itself was hardly all that original in the first place, since there's been plenty of "clothing of invisibility" in fiction down through the ages.

By including the "We own all the entries" legal text, we prevent that from being a problem, since as long as that text is part of RPG Superstar, John Doe REALLY has no legal footing to stand on to sue Paizo.

I don't think you would need to change much. As I don't think suing you is what they want to do.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Vic corrected my post partway down; it's not clear legally if the submissions have been "published," and therefore unclear whether the OGL applies.

Tripp Elliott wrote:

My takeaway from this is that as a Top 32, I've been published under the OGL!

Does this theoretically mean I could create a book of wondrous items using items that have made the Top 32, or use Top 32 items in other contexts, as long as I properly cite the use under the OGL?

Because if so, boy howdy do I have a weekend project.

[Liz Courts]

Just because something is released under the OGL does *not* mean that it is Open Game Content. These are two similar and easily confused terms—the Open Game License allows you to publish (and reuse) content that is declared as Open Game Content. Not all content is open for re-use (see pretty much all 3.5-era Wizards of the Coast content), some of it is kind of okay for re-use if you change the names (Denizens of Avadnu, IIRC), and some of it is completely open for use (from proper names to mechanics).

[Garrett Guillotte]

Liz Courts wrote:

Just because something is released under the OGL does *not* mean that it is Open Game Content. These are two similar and easily confused terms—the Open Game License allows you to publish (and reuse) content that is declared as Open Game Content. Not all content is open for re-use (see pretty much all 3.5-era Wizards of the Coast content), some of it is kind of okay for re-use if you change the names (Denizens of Avadnu, IIRC), and some of it is completely open for use (from proper names to mechanics).

So Sean's "quote your own submitted item under the OGL and attribute it to Paizo" statement is simply wrong, and there's no way to interpret Top 32 content--much less any other submissions--as being open for reuse.

[Liz Courts]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

So Sean's "quote your own submitted item under the OGL and attribute it to Paizo" statement is simply wrong, and there's no way to interpret Top 32 content--much less any other submissions--as being open for reuse.

Not so much "wrong" as "full of potential legal land mines better left avoided by just creating something new."

[Garrett Guillotte]

Liz Courts wrote:

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

So Sean's "quote your own submitted item under the OGL and attribute it to Paizo" statement is simply wrong, and there's no way to interpret Top 32 content--much less any other submissions--as being open for reuse.

Not so much "wrong" as "full of potential legal land mines better left avoided by just creating something new."

Good to know. Thanks!

[Gorbacz]

Mmmm... legal land mines. Now with 20% discount!

[Liz Courts]

Gorbacz wrote:

Mmmm... legal land mines. Now with 20% discount!

Only 20%? Man, I get them wholesale! :D

[Jester David]

Really I'm just wonder if there couldn't be a middle ground between leaving Paizo open to lawsuits and anyone posting their entry violating contest rules.

*Technically* the "Critique My Item" thread(s) are in violation, as they're posting Paizo's property. Which seems, well, silly.

[Pedro Coelho]

Jester, if you were so attached to your idea, and wanted to keep the intellectual property, then you shouldn't have submitted it in the first place. I've seen lots of people in the RPG Superstar message boards say they would not submit their items to the contest for that reason, and that's perfectly fine. However, what is done is done, and you can now fret over finding a legal loophole (which is unlikely) or leave it be.

My advice is to let it go and keep working on having new ideas and creating more stuff if you really want to be a game designer. Come up with new content for your blog; it will exercise your creativity. Do not get overly attached to any one idea - truth is, the industry needs writers who can deliver lots of cool things in a reasonable time, so having a whole year to come up with the best item in the world is not even a realistic expectation.

Keep squeezing those creative juices and I'm sure it won't be long before you come up with new and better stuff.

[Mikko Kallio]

I'm fairly certain they won't hit you with a cease-and-desist order if you post it in your blog, especially if you include a disclaimer. If you publish it someplace where someone can make a profit out of it, it's a different matter altogether.

Anyway, I remember your ever beating heart made my Keep list, and I hope you keep designing items/monsters/etc. :)

[Jester David]

Pedro Coelho wrote:

Jester, if you were so attached to your idea, and wanted to keep the intellectual property, then you shouldn't have submitted it in the first place. I've seen lots of people in the RPG Superstar message boards say they would not submit their items to the contest for that reason, and that's perfectly fine.

I might have considered that once, but it doesn't really work any more. Now that the contest has become so well known. Now that you see more and more people with more freelance credits, who have done work for 3rd Party Products and have already earned money in the industry trying out to be Superstars. You really have to make something great to be noticed now.

You can be a good design, bring your A-game, create a technically perfect item with a great concept and still not quite crack the top 32. There's quite a few items in the Critique thread where the feedback is a little forced, where the item might have easily been a part of the 32 a couple years earlier.

Not speaking personally of course. Mine was an order of magnitude better than my last few year's entries (although, there are extenuating circumstances for a couple). But I could have tightened the description a little.

Pedro Coelho wrote:

However, what is done is done, and you can now fret over finding a legal loophole (which is unlikely) or leave it be.

My thought was that it didn't hurt to ask. I figured that other people had wondered this (although my Google Fu failed and I wasn't able to find past threads).

I didn't think for a second I'd be able to sell my item. But I was curious about reposting, as Paizo is pretty open with so much else of their other property.

Pedro Coelho wrote:

My advice is to let it go and keep working on having new ideas and creating more stuff if you really want to be a game designer. Come up with new content for your blog; it will exercise your creativity. Do not get overly attached to any one idea - truth is, the industry needs writers who can deliver lots of cool things in a reasonable time, so having a whole year to come up with the best item in the world is not even a realistic expectation.

Keep squeezing those creative juices and I'm sure it won't be long before you come up with new and better stuff.

Probably. Right now I'm just reading and re-reading all the entries, listening to the interviews, and thinking RPG Superstar a lot. So I'm brooding a little. Wondering if I've hit a creative plateau: good but not quite good enough.

Once I can distract myself with another project it'll be better.
(I might also feel better if I wasn't simultaneously uninspired by the next Wayfinder theme.)

Mikko Kallio wrote:

Anyway, I remember your ever beating heart made my Keep list, and I hope you keep designing items/monsters/etc. :)

Thanks!

I hadn't noticed that thread. I appreciate it.

[James Casey]

So you know David, your heart also made my keep list. If you would like, I can PM you how I would have altered it to take it to the next level. Let me know. From a creative standpoint, don't give up or feel you have plateaued. The problem with your item wasn't creativity, it was execution. I found your item to be one of the most creative vehicles I encountered during voting, and I voted A LOT.

[Jacob W. Michaels]

And the way to fix execution? Keep practicing.

You mention there are people brainstorming ideas for 2015? There's no reason you can't be one of them. If you get an idea you think could be great, squirrel it away (heck, I just got a neat visual today that I wrote down -- don't think anything will come of it, but maybe it becomes an item I can use somewhere or even in next year's Superstar if I don't make the Final Four). Chances are you won't use most of those ideas for the contest, but you can use them for something else.

In the meantime, practice, practice, practice. Participate in the Blazing Nine Months thread that starts up every year after Superstar ends. That's a fantastic resource, where people are designing with an eye toward this contest and really enjoy going over these designs.

If you're worried about giving away your ideas, and want to focus more on execution, take some of the other items from this or previous year's critique threads and try to rework them. We had a lot of fun last year in the Nine Blazing Items thread trying to figure out a neat way to create an item that would basically let you use a spell as a light saber. Not Superstar design, I don't think, but it was good practice for mechanics (and even just general writing).

Even people who have gotten into the contest don't get in every year. Not every idea's gold. I LOVED my item from last year; I still think it was a cool item with neat applications and I should really throw it into a PBP sometime. It wasn't good enough to get me in, though. So I moved on and came up with another idea that was better. Keep writing and designing, and that's how you become a better writer and designer.

[Jester David]

James Casey wrote:

So you know David, your heart also made my keep list. If you would like, I can PM you how I would have altered it to take it to the next level. Let me know. From a creative standpoint, don't give up or feel you have plateaued. The problem with your item wasn't creativity, it was execution. I found your item to be one of the most creative vehicles I encountered during voting, and I voted A LOT.

Sure, PM away. Feedback is good.

Jacob W. Michaels wrote:

And the way to fix execution? Keep practicing.

You mention there are people brainstorming ideas for 2015? There's no reason you can't be one of them. If you get an idea you think could be great, squirrel it away (heck, I just got a neat visual today that I wrote down -- don't think anything will come of it, but maybe it becomes an item I can use somewhere or even in next year's Superstar if I don't make the Final Four). Chances are you won't use most of those ideas for the contest, but you can use them for something else.

In the meantime, practice, practice, practice. Participate in the Blazing Nine Months thread that starts up every year after Superstar ends. That's a fantastic resource, where people are designing with an eye toward this contest and really enjoy going over these designs.

If you're worried about giving away your ideas, and want to focus more on execution, take some of the other items from this or previous year's critique threads and try to rework them. We had a lot of fun last year in the Nine Blazing Items thread trying to figure out a neat way to create an item that would basically let you use a spell as a light saber. Not Superstar design, I don't think, but it was good practice for mechanics (and even just general writing).

Even people who have gotten into the contest don't get in every year. Not every idea's gold. I LOVED my item from last year; I still think it was a cool item with neat applications and I should really throw it into a PBP sometime. It wasn't good enough to get me in, though. So I moved on and came up with another idea that was better. Keep writing and designing, and that's how you become a better writer and designer.

I might just do that.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

A lot of great advice so far. Jester David, have you considered reworking your idea/mechanics/flavor as something new, like a witch hex(es), oracle discovery(ies), alternate wizard school power(s), magus arcana(s), rogue/ninja talent/trick(s), etc., etc.... whatever is most appropriate? Or maybe see if you can build a bestiary entry around the wondrous item's flavor/abilities? You'll likely need to modify your idea enough that it won't conflict. Think of it as a challenge to yourself.

If you manage to hammer it into something new before the end of March, you might consider submitting it to Wayfinder #11 (a PaizoCon issue to boot). The issue theme is Cheliax.