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Back to the OP:
I've been playing Legacy of Fire for years with a Summoner. His Eidolon is a Genie named Sharumander who once looted a temple of Sarenrae. She imprisoned him in a bottle for centuries and now his summoner is going to redeem him. His transformation from Djinn to fiery angel has been a lot of fun to play. Plus I get to use the catchphrase: "GREAT FLAAAAMING EYEBROWS!"
Demon summoners are a big part of lore, and if you go back and read the Belgariad and Maloreon by David Eddings, there are Demon Summoners who call demons and stuff them into a form of their choosing each time they are summoned.
I'm happy to allow summoners into my game, but they need to have a strong thematic link for the Eidolon. It can't just be a random collection of parts, it needs to have some link to lore. In my perfect world the Eidolon would be replaced with something akin to the Animal Companion for each different kind of Outsider. But the system as is, lets you emulate many Outsider types pretty well (or generate your own).
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You think of Pokemon?
My immediate thought when I hear "summoner" is Rydia.
YES
Also, many MANY other concepts come to mind long before Pokemon. Imaginary friend willed to life, guardian angel, bound genie passed down the family, a Kuthite's kyton work-in-progress, the manifestation of the summoner's ideal self, an enslaved devil bound to serve until the summoner dies and the relationship flips around, the living totemic spirit of the summoner's tribe, a lifeshaper and the first member of her new race, the spirit of a dead relative, Sarkori God-caller, a troubled drug-addled artist and the creations pulled from his own fevered dreams, a captured demon the summoner is attempting to redeem and ascend as a celestial, a captured azata an Asmodean is seeking to dominate and turn into a devil, etc.
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Back to the OP:
I've been playing Legacy of Fire for years with a Summoner. His Eidolon is a Genie named Sharumander
I'm not sure if that was intentional, tongue in cheek or just a coincidence but I had a good laugh at that.
You think of Pokemon?
My immediate thought when I hear "summoner" is Rydia.YES
Also, many MANY other concepts come to mind long before Pokemon. Imaginary friend willed to life, guardian angel, bound genie passed down the family, a Kuthite's kyton work-in-progress, the manifestation of the summoner's ideal self, an enslaved devil bound to serve until the summoner dies and the relationship flips around, the living totemic spirit of the summoner's tribe, a lifeshaper and the first member of her new race, the spirit of a dead relative, Sarkori God-caller, a troubled drug-addled artist and the creations pulled from his own fevered dreams, a captured demon the summoner is attempting to redeem and ascend as a celestial, a captured azata an Asmodean is seeking to dominate and turn into a devil, etc.
One I used was: Look what followed me home. Can I keep it?
There are legends that the wisdom of King Solomon came from his summoning and binding of demons (forcing them to tell him the Devil's plans, so he could adapt appropriately). Ancient lore for summoners.
Demon summoners are a big part of lore, and if you go back and read the Belgariad and Maloreon by David Eddings, there are Demon Summoners who call demons and stuff them into a form of their choosing each time they are summoned.
Speaking of demons that morph shape a lot and yadda yadda the Bartimaeus Trilogy makes a lot of passing references to King Solomon (and one of the side books takes place when he was still using his Ring of 1000 Spirits or whatever to do all kinds of stuff).
Does he wear a red shirt?Only caught bits of digimon and all I really remember is the girl who really wanted that bond when she found out about them, one really good one started to fight with/protect forming a friendship. Then he was killed sending her off the deep end from the pain turning her into the big bad of the season.Never be Leomon. First rule. Leomon dies.He wears no shirt, he is a big beefy lion man.
But Leomon and Leomon related things always result in death in the Digimon universe(s).
IIRC nothing that A.) Is a Leomon, B.) A Digimon Leomon digivolves into, or C.) Could conceivably digivolve INTO Leomon has yet been alive at the end of a given series. I haven't watched anything past the first half of Frontier though so I could be wrong.
I'm pretty sure it's purposeful and a running joke (if kind of a morbid one...) in all the series' but like everything in Tamers it was deconstructed into something utterly soul crushing to watch because the guy they hired for Tamers is a sadistic man known for writing very creepy, borderline horror anime.
and that is why, when i played Digimon on the GBA years ago, i picked Salamon and Went the route of Black Gatomon, Ladydevimon, Lilithmon. Lilithmon could be used to infiltrate the villains, plus it was fun to have a demon lord, on a leash.
Salamon has like 8 Paths as of Tamers, 2 of which i know are good, 3 of which i know are evil, the other 3 i am unsure of. but i loved Lilithmon.
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Back to the OP:
I've been playing Legacy of Fire for years with a Summoner. His Eidolon is a Genie named Sharumander
I'm not sure if that was intentional, tongue in cheek or just a coincidence but I had a good laugh at that.
My summoner's name is Ash Q'Asheem.
For real.
i played a synthesist and asked the DM if i could remake her as an Aegis because she was too powerful as a synthesist. the DM approved and was much happier.
her Name Was Nepgear; her "HDD" replaced her white and purple sailor schoolgirl uniform with a white one piece Swimsuit or Black 2-piece Bikini depending on her mood. the swimsuit eventually came with angel wings and the bikini, devil wings
her weapon of choice, was a Psionically enhanced Beam Sabre (Treat as a Magically enhanced Katana with a 5th level heightened Continual flame cast upon it reflavored as the curved sabre being made of purple light)
her 'slash wave' technique was the shard customization with a few tweaks. she could make it stronger by blowing power points
and she dervish danced with the beam sabre
it felt truer to the character. her 'Pounce' was called 'Mirage Dance' and she had some healing related psionic powers to replicate her healing related spells
in fact, she felt more like Nepgear as an Aegis than she did as a Synthesist
and she was technically a Synthesist for 6 levels before i got psionics expanded and asked to remake her as an Aegis. she used the same equipment as an Aegis. a Beam Sabre. her psychoactive skin functioned as mithril kikko.
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Back to the OP:
I've been playing Legacy of Fire for years with a Summoner. His Eidolon is a Genie named Sharumander
I'm not sure if that was intentional, tongue in cheek or just a coincidence but I had a good laugh at that.
My summoner's name is Ash Q'Asheem.
For real.
I like.
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I have a BBEG who is a gestalt Oracle of the Dark Tapestry/Summoner.
He calls terrible alien things from beyond the skin of the world by using an eldritch key to open rifts in reality.
Mechanically what he calls might be just a wolf, but thematically, it's a horrid alien dog-creature that sounds like screaming children when it howls.
His Eidolon is a creature called The Open Gate which is a gaping maw on the end of a burrowing serpentine body. It has a tendency to grab things, drag them underground and leave them entombed (burrow speed, grapple, grapple check to move with target, drag them under, release them underground and move on)
Summon Monster spells cast sometimes use the Eidolon as the point of origin, as the serpentine monster disgorges horrors from beyond space and time out into the world.
Just imagine the look on my PC's face when he was grappled by the Eidolon, bit for half his health, and then it vomited up three horrible crawling things onto him which joined the grapple. (they were just giant centipedes, but he didn't really know that).
That's how I Summoner.
If you actually want something to change your perception of the class I suggest Balazar's story.i have a couple kids and when i was a teenager (well late, late teens anyway) Pokemon and Digimon were all the rage. to me it always seemed like they were doing more harm then good, teaching kids to get others to fight their battles and what not.
am i the only one that views summoners as just a way for RPGers to make their own Pokemon?
i just can't get my head around Summoners as a serious class and will never allow them in my game.so if someone has a more serious view of summoners so i can take them seriously i'd like to hear it:)
Somewhat reminiscent of the Bartimaeus trilogy, which is what I always think of when summoners come up. The difference being that Padrig actually wanted to be summoned.
Kaijudo has recently replaced a lot of my summoning imagination space. "Don't target the creature, target the summoner!" Love that cartoon.
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Let me ask this, because I'm not sure anyone touched on it yet:
OP:
1. Do you have a problem on the whole with people being inspired by their favorite heroes from fantasy when creating their character?
2. If yes, why is it so bad that someone wants to base their eidolon off of their favorite Pokemon?
If you do have a problem with it as a whole, then fine. But if you only have a problem with it when it comes to things you personally don't like, then I have a problem with that.
My experiences with a summoner at the table are that they automatically double the duration of any combat, via the following sequence:
GM: "Summoner, your turn."
Summ: "My monster/eidolon/flock of fiendish puffins appears! Yeah!"
GM: "OK, and it does what?"
Summ: blank look
GM, nudging: "It... attacks, for example?"
Summ: "Yeah, that's right. It attacks!"
GM: "OK, roll its attack. What type of attack is it, by the way?"
Summ: blank look
GM: Heavy sigh, followed by all the other players getting up for a snack/bathroom/smoke break as the Summoner has to look up his critter's combat stats for the hundredth time, only to discover he doesn't have the book containing them, doesn't know what animal feats are, forgets that his PC can take his OWN action every round as well, etc., etc.That is just a symptom of playing any complicated class without being prepared. In the groups I've played when someone wants to summon they have the stats prepared ahead of time as a responsible player should.
The easiest way to solve this is if he/she takes more than X time to do declare his/her action (time will vary for your group. We use 10 seconds to declare the action) then you hold. and if you can't get your act together before the initiative cycles you lose your turn. In RP terms this just represents the PC being stunned by the battle and not knowing what to do
I've had more problems with Wizards and Witches in that regard than people who played Summoners at my table. Pretty soon I'm going to institute a policy of "if you can't tell me exactly what the spell does when I ask (even if I know what it does), you lose your action".
The way i use summoners in my campaing can be resumed in only one word: PERSONA !
Have you seen the related series Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga? Think of them as the 'Synthesist summoner' counterpart to SMT: Persona.
IIRC nothing that A.) Is a Leomon, B.) A Digimon Leomon digivolves into, or C.) Could conceivably digivolve INTO Leomon has yet been alive at the end of a given series. I haven't watched anything past the first half of Frontier though so I could be wrong.
SaberLeomon dies in Frontier.
BanchoLeomon dies in Savers/Data Squad.MadLeomon (a bad guy) dies in Fusion/Xros Wars.
I like.Back to the OP:
I've been playing Legacy of Fire for years with a Summoner. His Eidolon is a Genie named Sharumander
I'm not sure if that was intentional, tongue in cheek or just a coincidence but I had a good laugh at that.
My summoner's name is Ash Q'Asheem.
For real.
It was intentional alright. I wasn't going to allow class at first, but I couldn't say no to that.
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My experiences with a summoner at the table are that they automatically double the duration of any combat, via the following sequence:
GM: "Summoner, your turn."
Summ: "My monster/eidolon/flock of fiendish puffins appears! Yeah!"
GM: "OK, and it does what?"
Summ: blank look
GM, nudging: "It... attacks, for example?"
Summ: "Yeah, that's right. It attacks!"
GM: "OK, roll its attack. What type of attack is it, by the way?"
Summ: blank look "....roll? Roll what?"
GM: Heavy sigh, followed by all the other players getting up for a snack/bathroom/smoke break as the Summoner has to look up his critter's combat stats for the hundredth time, only to discover he doesn't have the book containing them, doesn't know what animal feats are, forgets that his PC can take his OWN action every round as well, etc., etc.
This sounds nothing like a Summoner. This sounds absolutely like an utterly careless and irresponsible player.
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house rule it so they can only summon something by saying the magic words.. You know the "Blah blah blah I choose you." after having to do it a dozen times or so maybe they will go another route.
Are you kidding me? Whenever I summon anything, I stand up, put a baseball cap on, turn said cap around backward, and wheel back into a pitcher's stance and scream "CELESTIAL DIRE TIGER! I... CHOOOSE... YOU!" before flinging the miniature across the room.
That's how I Summoner.
Summoner? I barely know 'er!
This sounds nothing like a Summoner. This sounds absolutely like an utterly careless and irresponsible player.
One reason I liked 4e's summoning-control rules.