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Tricky situation we have here. Guess I'll throw in my ideas.

Can you feel a deflection bonus? Feel your stat bonuses?
Generally I say the numbers are purely system constructs, something required of the system to keep everyone (in RL) on the same page. Characters may have an idea of how good they are with a sword, or dodging such, but they can't put a number on it. Unlike magic, I don't think someone would notice a supernatural bonus. I think the evil attacker would notice that you're harder to hit far more than you would notice that it's easier to avoid.

Using smite evil to bypass alignment detection?
I would say no, but if someone was really wanting a creative use for this ability, and you're the type to promote player creativity over all else, then a "yes" would include the consequence of "The evil individual feels the bursting aura of good energy, he knows he's been found out. Evil guy gets a init roll.

Killing evil characters out of hand ok?
If you personally know the evil character's crimes (like the above Satan example) then striking them down is good. However, if you cannot prove to everyone else in a lawful/good/neutral society the crimes of the deceased than prepare to be punished like you were the evil murderer. You won't be the first pariah to take that road for the well being of the unsuspecting innocent masses.

You could kill Sarevok outright, but proving his treachery will not only dismantle ALL his plans, but also keep you from being hunted by the Flaming Fist for the rest of your life.

noble peasant wrote:
Exactly, I'm not arguing that the flavor of the class isn't evil, (I did forget about the kill someone just to be an assassin tidbit) I am now arguing that the flavor shouldn't be there and that it should be as open to interpretation as any other class.

You can get rid of that flavor if you want. Core PrCs are (were) faction classes. You had to join a faction to qualify for that PrC which meant meeting the requirments. Now they're just generic classes (except Pathfinder, which has a current faction associated with it). The Assassin PrC is simply the Red Mantis from a different world.

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"In the name of the Moon"- defeat a major NPC as a cleric with the Moon sub domain.

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"Full Metal Badass"- have at least 2 limbs replaced with clockwork prosthesis or equivalent.

"Lithium Flower"- have your entire body replace with an artificial shell containing your "ghost".

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"Jeepers creepers, look at those peepers" - Seduce a Aasimar NPC

"Excellent!"- Obtain a magical vehicle

"The Joining"- Survive a dangerous rite of passage

"Griff Ball"- Be the butt of 20 jokes

I have Das Korvut making a Masterwork earthbreaker for one of my players. In an effort to determine how long the weapon will take (and shorten its construction time) I've been trying to find all the possible stackable bonuses.

How many assistants would be working at the Red Dog Smithy? In a town of 1200 people I'm sure there would be some kids capable and desperate enough to apprentice under Old Bouncy Chops.

I use the settlement rules then randomly generate magic items from there. It results in a LOT of consumables like scrolls and potions.

In my RotRL game for the month of Rova, Sandpoint has these items available:
11 minor

Wand (Endure Elements spell CL1) no clue to function [750 GP]

Potion (Cat's Grace spell CL3) [50 GP]

Wand (Fog Cloud spell CL3) with clue to wand's function [4,500 GP]

Scroll (Produce Flame spell CL1) [25 GP]

Potion (Detect Animals spell CL1) [50 GP]

Scroll (Ray of Enfeeblment spell CL1) [50 GP]

Scroll (Illusory Script spell CL5) [375 GP]

Wand (Produce Flame spell CL1) with clue to wand's function [750 GP]

Wand (False Life spell CL3) with clue to wand's function [4,500 GP]

Wand (Ghoul Touch spell CL3) no clue to function [4,500 GP]

Potion (Eagles Splendor spell CL3) [300 GP]

2 medium

Ring (Swimming, improved) [10,000 GP]

Weapon (+3 Hand crossbow) [10,400 GP]

I use the random tables to a point and then make choices where appropriate, like giving enchantment attributes that are in different books.

Not so sure about demanding the sock as tribute, but that could have been pretty funny depending on how you played it.

As for the dog, I think your judgment was correct. If the Dog was rabid there is little chance of calming it down. Rabies is a nasty thing for a pup to get, and there's little hope for even a druid to communicate with it unless the disease is cured first.

Rynjin wrote:
ArgentumLupus wrote:

The players sound like spoiled children. Instead of working within your limits (all of which are good reasons to stick to the core book), they wanted their way regardless of the extra burden it put on you. I feel bad about for the player that asked you to GM, they probably feel like crud for inadvertently setting you up for that fall.

The fact that they didn't invite you to the other game is pretty low. If that's the level of maturity these "adults" possess, then good riddance. What kind of computer do you have? RPG Geek has a lot of folk up for VoIP games that are plenty chill and act like adults.

He gave them an ultimatum. Two options: Core Only ("My way") or Find a New GM ("The Highway").

There is nothing spoiled or immature about taking 1 of 2 options presented.

If anything, presenting an ultimatum and then being surprised when people take one of the options you've provided (the one you didn't want, but provided anyway because you were SO SURE people would never leave you) is the immature one.

Note, I'm not saying the OP here was immature. Just saying that trying to assign blame in this scenario can go either way (but likely should go neither). The group wanted one thing. He wanted another. The groups went their separate ways, with little fuss that I can see.

Best case scenario this side of a compromise as near as I can tell.

Ok, calling them spoiled was a bit too strong, but you can't say they were mature about it. He was asked to run the game, he gave conditions for his game, they decline, but instead of just moving with a different GM, they "fail" to invite the OP to the new game because he didn't give them everything they wanted.

"You didn't give me what I want so I want play with you anymore" is the reaction of 1st graders, not adults.

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The players sound like spoiled children. Instead of working within your limits (all of which are good reasons to stick to the core book), they wanted their way regardless of the extra burden it put on you. I feel bad about for the player that asked you to GM, they probably feel like crud for inadvertently setting you up for that fall.

The fact that they didn't invite you to the other game is pretty low. If that's the level of maturity these "adults" possess, then good riddance. What kind of computer do you have? RPG Geek has a lot of folk up for VoIP games that are plenty chill and act like adults.

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The cake was a lie...

Ceres Cato wrote:

Wow, I like that idea as well. This is actually quite good! Thank you!

On another note, I'd rule that you can't raise an unborn child with raise dead or the like. Because, in my thinking, it's not really "alive" if you would call it so. It's just... uhm... a thing(?). Maybe you can raise it after the point it can reasonably (and that's important!) survive outside the womb of its mother. Which, according to Carl Sagan (the only argument I can remember) is somewhere in the last trimester of human pregnancy. So.. 7th month and later.

Assuming the mothers body doesn't abort from the trauma of her own death, if the baby isn't considered "alive" than the resurrection spell may treat it as nothing more than an additional internal organ. If that the case, the child could earn automatic access to a badass custom Prestige class!

S'mon wrote:

One possibility that occurs to me is that it takes as long for new souls to travel from the soul-forge as it does for them to travel to the afterlife on death. AIR that was 30 days in 1e AD&D, and Pathfinder seems to work similarly with the Raise Dead spell.

Thanks to those who've given advice, I think I have a better idea how I'll tackle it.

I like that. Consider the 30 days idea stolen and now house cannon.

My question is would it matter (as far as the resurrection is concerned)? Wouldn't the trauma to the mother's body from being murdered alone cause her body to abort the child?

Given Pharasma's view on the subject, I would think the soul inhabits a body at conception. It would give the heavens the numbers they need to fight wars with demons and devils. As for that elf lady in Sandpoint? Nature gods don't have a problem with her work.

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I have the opposite problem. It takes a lot of effort on my part to consistently play my Wizard as a prick. I actually have a "prick personality" sheet that helps me determine what the character would do.

I normally play the loving and caring Cleric or Ranger types. Way easier because I don't have to but energy into figuring out how they would act/react.


My first idea when I saw the summoner was that I could use the class as a GM assigned method of bringing White Knight Chronicles Incorruptus into pathfinder.

At what point do you feel an enchanted piece of equipment would be important enough to earn a name in Golarion? Would it be dependant on enchantment level? Age? Major event?
How would this differ, in your opinion, from other settings both official and homebrew?

I'm trying to inject a little more flavor into my game, and remain consistent with said flavor, so I want to see what others have to say on the subject.

Just finished Abbadons Gate and started On Basilisk Station.

Ever play Armored Core or Front Mission? Gunpowder charged pile drivers!

Are the power levels in the Mythic rules something like what would be displayed by a Chosen or Champion of a god? I'm talking Erevis Cale, Drasek Riven, Elminster, Dove Falconhand type Chosen. Especially Erevis Cale, I love that character. How many Chosen get into a fistfight with their god in an ally?

Hey Renegade, it sounds like you were anything but dead weight. I tend to prefer generalist or healing focused characters for the sole reason that those are the roles few people around me like to play. A generalist is good when the rest of the group has bases covered because you can support everyone, and your story supports that.

A group of specialist may not be as vulnerable to a TPK, but they are vulnerable to attrition. One specialist dies or is otherwise put out of the action, and the entire group is now vulnerable.

EDIT: Though the "Justin Bieber" bit might earn a knife in the back from me. :P

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Why does no one seem to remember that the republican controlled House cut embassy security funding before Bengahzi occurred?

Curse works under specific circumstances. Want a prison for spellcasters that prevents their casting but stops if they are let free? Curse each inmate within the prison. As a gm it gives an awesome jailbreak scene and as a local lord it gives you a repository of spellcasters to uutilize in exchange for their freedom.

I don't think so. Withdrawing is a full round action, and I've never seen any rule implying that a character can AoO while it's still their turn. Also, if the no escape thing is reactionary, then the barbarian is only leaving the space after its no longer threatened.

It's a pretty fuzzy situation, rule wise. But I would personally rule no.

Can arcane casters create water of any sort? I've only ever seen spells that create the energy types for arcane, but not water (aside from summoning a water elemental, but it might get a tad bit pissed if you tried drinking it).

Hilde from Soul Calibur, now THAT is a beautiful character design. I'm still bummed they changed her armor from the wolf to the griffin.

If I remembered correctly, the average IQ of a person is 100, but this represents both social and book smarts. Could either take character with an Int of 7 as having a 70 IQ, or as I prefer to do, take the average of int and wisdom the multiply by 10.
Hope that helps some.

That was very enjoyable Mikaze. Anywhere besides the forums I can find more of your work?

Tacticslion wrote:

I know that thing, it appears in an AP (Council of Thieves bestiary,to be precise). It's called an Ebon Idol I believe?

The thing about "turf" is I didn't mean "Boneyard", I meant, her domain is life/death/birth/judgment. And she's getting regularly tromped over on that turf.

It would be like if a god of, say, storms sent a mighty hurricane, and someone could cast a third level spell to go "nah, we don't need that nonsense". It's goofy and it defeats the god when the god is supposed to have all the advantages. That's what I mean by "turf".

If the third level spell Gentle Repose can forcibly prevent a soul from being judged, than she is being defeated on her own turf (i.e. the Boneyard) by relatively low-grade magic. If a third level spell can accidentally destroy more than three different ninth level spells put together (one of which, unless someone uses a third level spell, she can outright negate) something is seriously wrong here.

These makes her look relatively incompetent.

And Pharasma's actually pretty awesome... but this undermines her coolness factor.

Casting a third level spell to negate the power of a pit fiend (or any other powerful outsider, really), is also just plain terrible design, but, as written, it's implied it works that way.

Also: raise magic works on animals, ergo they have souls. Plant creatures as well. Thus whenever we eat plants or animals, we positive energy creatures are devouring and destroying life and positive energy.

I absolutely agree with all of this. The one situation where, I feel, gentle repose *could* delay Pharasma's judgement of a soul is from her own Clerics of death (repose domain), and that's asking her to do so. She doesn't have to oblige.

Edit: except the last sentence of that last part. Mortals are not positive energy creatures. They only have a spark, that's why the positive energy plane will kill unprotected mortals. Undead, however, are empowered by the negative energy plane.

Tacticslion wrote:
But she does care about what happens to souls... which is intrinsically linked to building structures, spacial limits, and the like.

I've never found anything within her domain or church description that leads me to this conclusion, despite having played multiple clerics of Pharasma (life, death, and prophecy varieties). Either way, I'll concede the point, I've derailed the topic too much already.

I don't think she cares what happens to buildings.

Ah, that's a question thar civilization faces and is Abadar's problem, not Pharasma's.

Death is necessary, not destruction.

I'm not sure why comparing what the undead do to the deeds of MORTAL life invalidates the "undead is evil" thing for so many people. There's a reason why the Prime Material Plain, the home of MORTAL life and the natural order, is in the center of the inner plane cosmology.

Positive energy creates.
Negative energy destroys.

Undead that are not under control revert to their Negative energy drive, to destroy any positive energy even if it's just a spark (mortal life). Anything that exists solely to destroy life and/or existence is evil (unless we want to start a thread on how Rovagug is just a misunderstood elder god that was punished for being grumpy about a splinter in his tentacle).

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mearrin69 wrote:

I like the Alternity system a lot. I don't understand how it's substantially different from D20/Saga or why you label those as fantasy? Not trying to argue...just trying to understand what you mean.


Let's see if I can make this make sense (always a lot harder with text then words). Specifically, I was referring to SAGA (where you have an heavy focus on "space wizards" and where the class based system pretty much restricts the abilities of a character.

When you look at Alternity, yes you have "classes" but those just make some skills cheaper to purchase. Outside of that you can take pretty much whatever you please. You can make a character with interests outside of their Career choice, like a demolitions guy with a side interest in being a professional hair stylist... or something... ok, I'm reaching.

I guess it just comes down to the preference of mechanics representing the setting you're playing in. I think the class based D20 system is best for fantasy where people grow up in one profession and pretty much stay there for the rest of their lives. I think skill based systems are best for Modern and Sci-fi because people have a lot more opportunity to learn other skill sets alongside whatever the character's focus is.

And I'm just not fond of heavy emphasis on "space wizards", thus my primary gripe with Starwars and Warhammer 40k.

Edit: Though I do like Spelljammer.... huh...

Second Edit: Also, Alternity has a better damage resolution system.

I don't suppose anyone from Paizo plays EVE Online?

IceniQueen expected the Spanish Inquisition...

Makes me wish I liked WoW.

Currently EVE Online, Mech Warrior Online, White Knight Chronicles 2, and Borderlands 2.

Oh, and Dust 514 (I hope I'm allowed to say that).

I was less then satisfied with how D20 works with modern and future settings, which really need skill based systems instead of class based. That was part of the reason I discovered Silhouette and Alternity.

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Just keep in mind that some players and GMs like to treat Pathfinder as a tactical wargame. Optimization threads show up because
A) People like to play with the system that way.
B) A GMs play style necessitates optimization. A proper group of specialist can offset each others vulnerabilities, making generalists unnecessary.
C) Any range of reasons that, as someone who doesn't tend to optimize, could exist.

That's the beauty of games like Pathfinder, Time of War, Silhouette, Alternity, ect. They are just frame work acting as the foundation of the player's experience. It's why we have so many people from so different of backgrounds.

I'm just happy Interstellar Ops is getting worked on. I have a campaign with a friend starting using a mix of Tac Ops, Strat Ops, and the Revised Mercenary Field Manual. We're starting in 3039, but I look forward to making our way into the Jihad, and then maybe jumping to the Dark Ages when some more books supporting that era are released.

I tried SAGA Edition. I feel it suffers from the same problem as D20 Modern/Future. I don't like fantasy in space style games, so the systems I prefer for modern and sci-fi are skill based, namely Alternity or Silhouette.

I'm familiar with Pathfinder(D20), Alternity, Rifts, Silhouette, and Battletech: Time of War. From my experience, Silhouette is brutal to inexperienced players that haven't learned how to exploit defense modifiers like hard cover. I think it's actually more lethal then Battletech and Rifts. Damage multiplier systems are nasty.

I'm setting up my second attempt at RotRL. I plan on spicing up the initial encounter by having tar soaked arrows falling on the town as the surprise attack. Then the first three encounters happen.

The player as excepted my work above, and a number of restriction that I placed on the Garuda's abilities (spell, proficiency). Should be a good build that isn't too strong or too weak.
I have to say, I really did enjoy deconstructing this creature into a Racial Class. I don't know how far we'll get in RotRL before I have to move out of state, but at least he can carry my work over to a different game if that GM allows it.

Could someone clarify, or point to a book and page that does so, the offense section of a monster's stat block?
The three types of entries that appear are:
A) attack X, attack Y,
B) attack X and attack Y
C) attack X or attack Y

Also, with natural attacks only listing one attack bonus, how would things work if a creature with high enough BAB wants to, say, bite twice? or use the "2 Claws" entry more then once?

I feel kinda ashamed for asking this given how long I've been playing, but a player wanting to play a monstrous race is making me consider things I never worried about before.

Since players are going to use whatever color they want for their characters, the question for NPC's becomes this: What is the ethnic composition of the River Kingdoms (that still is the setting for PFO, right?)?

Don't play?... Don't play?!?! BURN THE HEATHEN! :)
On a more relevent point, 2 questions.
What weight cardstock is used for this product? I will be printing off a pdf soon.
And is there a future for gargantuan and colossal creatures as pawns? Since I haven't seen the product yet, I don't know how much of the page a huge creature takes.

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