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Jason Leonard wrote:When you sit down and not one person, even the rouge, has a knowledge skill......any knowledge skill!!!! Then you decide just how self reliant is your character.Rouges which don't have knowledge are total maroons.
I prefer macaroons, but you know..to each their own.
...the wizard does not have knowledge arcana or spellcraft.
...the cavalier has better knowledge than the wizard (happened! It was dumb!).

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I'll jump in here and hate on myself a bit.
...when you're playing Shades of Ice and the guy playing the level 4 ranger says, after the third encounter: "I have to leave to pick up my kids". And he was the one PC who pulled the table up a tier.
Yes, I was the guy who had to leave, and yes, the rest of the party suvived. Barely.

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You are playing a 7-11, the Succubus just cast her Dominate, and the target is the plate armored, tower shield using, high Con Fighter who dump-stated Wisdom (+1 Will save, maybe, at level 8)
** spoiler omitted **
I have not experienced something like this myself, but a friend of mine was DMing Hellknight's Feast at a con not too long ago and....
End result was complete mission failure because lolbarbarian.
Sooo this:
... when you sit down at and notice both barbarians dumped WIS into the gutter.

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kinevon wrote:You are playing a 7-11, the Succubus just cast her Dominate, and the target is the plate armored, tower shield using, high Con Fighter who dump-stated Wisdom (+1 Will save, maybe, at level 8)
** spoiler omitted **
I have not experienced something like this myself, but a friend of mine was DMing Hellknight's Feast at a con not too long ago and....
** spoiler omitted **
End result was complete mission failure because lolbarbarian.
Sooo this:
... when you sit down at and notice both barbarians dumped WIS into the gutter.
...another player brings a barbarian to anything with heavy roleplay/social occasions.
This one really annoys me because then they get bored and start complaining. Well...guess what...IT WAS ADVERTISED AS A SOCIAL OCCASION!

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This one really annoys me because then they get bored and start complaining. Well...guess what...IT WAS ADVERTISED AS A SOCIAL OCCASION!
And then you bring all your social characters and the undead come out...
Seriously, never accept an invitation to a Blakros function. It's not worth it.

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Jason Leonard wrote:When you sit down and not one person, even the rouge, has a knowledge skill......any knowledge skill!!!! Then you decide just how self reliant is your character.Rouges which don't have knowledge are total maroons.
LOL!
Easy to spot rouge puns when you live where I do...

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The rogue and barbarian happily drink their potion of fly but never heard about the skill checks involved.
Fly means more as a 750gp potion if you intend to do more than just charge. Full attacks or 180 turns to get into flanking position are NOT automatic and it hurts if you are the GM who seems to be the first to teach it a whole table of high level characters.

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The rogue and barbarian happily drink their potion of fly but never heard about the skill checks involved.
Fly means more as a 750gp potion if you intend to do more than just charge. Full attacks or 180 turns to get into flanking position are NOT automatic and it hurts if you are the GM who seems to be the first to teach it a whole table of high level characters.
Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally.
I don't see why that would require a fly check to full attack.

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...another player brings a barbarian to anything with heavy roleplay/social occasions.
This one really annoys me because then they get bored and start complaining. Well...guess what...IT WAS ADVERTISED AS A SOCIAL OCCASION!
. . . another player brings a barbarian, and his animal companion, to anything with heavy roleplay/social occasions.
GM: Damian Blackros comes downstairs, clearly half-dressed for the upcoming feast. "Please remove your dinosaur from my house, or I will remove both you and the dinosaur from my house."
Other PCs: Please, please, PLEASE take the dinosaur out to the stables because we don't want to fail the mission after 20 minutes!

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The Morphling wrote:Jason Leonard wrote:When you sit down and not one person, even the rouge, has a knowledge skill......any knowledge skill!!!! Then you decide just how self reliant is your character.Rouges which don't have knowledge are total maroons.LOL!
Easy to spot rouge puns when you live where I do...
Do you play a Rogue with Weapon Focus (Baton)?

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The rogue and barbarian happily drink their potion of fly but never heard about the skill checks involved.
Fly means more as a 750gp potion if you intend to do more than just charge. Full attacks or 180 turns to get into flanking position are NOT automatic and it hurts if you are the GM who seems to be the first to teach it a whole table of high level characters.
"You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day "
A person with only a fly potion cannot put ranks in fly -
and I have found a lot of GM variation about what happens when you fail the skill check to make a 90 degree turn

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Brett Carlos wrote:Do you play a Rogue with Weapon Focus (Baton)?The Morphling wrote:Jason Leonard wrote:When you sit down and not one person, even the rouge, has a knowledge skill......any knowledge skill!!!! Then you decide just how self reliant is your character.Rouges which don't have knowledge are total maroons.LOL!
Easy to spot rouge puns when you live where I do...
Yes, actually. Although I find most scenarios make it hard for me to stick to using it as a primary weapon.
And on topic:
...When you catch the GM filling out his TPK tally sheet from the previous session...And you notice the page number on the sheet is 20...

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...the sorcerer has more maximum HP than the barbarian...of the same level.
...the cleric fails a will save.
...the fighter out-skills the rogue.
...the tank is a monk...playing up.
...the NG cleric of Pharasma who has the healing domain asks "Who's the healer?"
...you ask who the tank is, go around the table, and realize the GM is.

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Hover needs a fly check. You also need a fly check when flying less than half movement.
Which is weird as hell for characters using magical flight. :/
and I have found a lot of GM variation about what happens when you fail the skill check to make a 90 degree turn
Probably due to the text about failing by 5 or more. GMs probably miss the caveat about having wings in that statement. You just don't get to make the maneuver but can continue your actions.

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"You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day "A person with only a fly potion cannot put ranks in fly -
Quoted text from the PRD, essentially same as above.
"You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability)."
So my wizard can't take ranks in fly until he learns the Fly spell? Or can he start building up ranks right away?

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Dhjika wrote:
"You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day "A person with only a fly potion cannot put ranks in fly -
Quoted text from the PRD, essentially same as above.
"You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability)."
So my wizard can't take ranks in fly until he learns the Fly spell? Or can he start building up ranks right away?
Once he learns, and can cast, Fly daily he can start putting ranks in the Fly skill.

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Wizards and sorcerers begin with fly already as a class skill, I do believe. I've seen nothing to indicate that they can't start putting points into it before they're actually capable of casting fly.
Umm...GM Derek quoted where it states that you do need to be able to fly regularly in order to take ranks in the Fly skill. The relevant text is in the Fly skill description.

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Wizards and sorcerers begin with fly already as a class skill, I do believe. I've seen nothing to indicate that they can't start putting points into it before they're actually capable of casting fly.
you have read the fly skill, right? the last section...
Special: A spellcaster with a bat familiar gains a +3 bonus on Fly checks.
Creatures with a fly speed treat the Fly skill as a class skill. A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8. Creatures without a listed maneuverability rating are assumed to have average maneuverability.
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category: Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8.
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
If you have the Acrobatic feat, you get a bonus on Fly checks (see Feats).
Ninja'd by a deep gnome!

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here's something I missed before though....
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category: Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8.
so Halflings and Gnomes get a +2 on fly!
Well they're punted often enough...

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... you realize your GM is one of those forum goers that thinks people choose chaotic neutral so they can be "evil" in PFS, and will try to hand you an alignment shift no matter how your character behaves.
A friend of mine had to buy an atonement for their barbarian after an alignment infraction shifted it evil; it was for choosing to execute a demon after it surrendered.

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here's something I missed before though....
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category: Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8.
so Halflings and Gnomes get a +2 on fly!
And the Fly Spell gives you Good maneuverability, so you usually get a +4 for that also.

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nosig wrote:And the Fly Spell gives you Good maneuverability, so you usually get a +4 for that also.here's something I missed before though....
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category: Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8.
so Halflings and Gnomes get a +2 on fly!
perfect maneuverability I think

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The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.

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Your playing Waking Rune with strangers at a con, sit down, and nobody wishes to discuss "tactics" before dice hit the table.
And the halfling paladin is the only melee at the table, and he dies on his first save in the first combat.
On the positive side, my bard did Hold Monster on the and his riding dog (which was still alive) did a coup de grâce on it.

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It's disheartening to see the fly spell being misunderstood by so many.
It is actually a very simple spell. Cast on an individual fly gives a decent fly speed with good maneuverability. This doesn't allow anyone to auto-succeed in their checks other than maybe the Dex-monster rogue, but there's enough speed in the spell to make some of the maneuvers included in the Fly skill(raising, making difficult turns, etc) not so painful.
Making sure you know the rules of the spell AND the skill in question can be a tedious chore after so many sessions of perfect maneuverability and auto-success yes, but there are good sides to the whole issue: flight-involved fights last longer, making enemies more survivable, the least interesting flying adversaries, air elementals, are no longer untouchable and dragons of all things start to look silly with their horrible skill check antics!
Yes, learning to fly was an undertaking, but it was worth it.

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...the word Blackros is in the name.
...the word Blackros is in the venture captain's briefing.
...the word Blackros is uttered by a single individual within 10 miles of the venture captain's briefing room.
I have seen and had a lot of Blackros TPKs/near TPKs
...the scenario is titled