I have a situation regarding a PC who likes to be reckless.


Advice


I have a PC in a group that i GM for that is quite reckless. It is actually a lot of fun to see how he will react to new situations but if we ever find a vial with anything in it, he will immediately drink it. Now if he drinks a poison am I suppose to tell him that he just drank a poison? Do I even let him roll a Will save?


Will save?

Poisons are Fort saves.


If he says he immediately drinks any vial you find, it's his choice. He certainly wouldn't get a save. Though the poison likely offers a save as Rynjin said.

As is often said, there is no save vs. stupid.


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Drinking it willingly should forgo the saves IMO. He's going out of his way to put an unknown substance in his body. He's essentially accepting that whatever happens, happens. Dumb adventurers are dead adventurers.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

When I have players who play characters with 'impulse control' issues (like the PC you referred to), or the fighter/barbarian who charges everything in sight, etc; I warn them that they can play the character anyway that they like but I point out that such actions can have consequences.

Thus warned, I let the player play the character however he likes. And when said 'consequences' do happen, I just tell the player to roll a saving throw, or I describe the consequences that have occurred.

If the player knows up front that bad things can happen (and chances are he/she does), then they should take the bad with the good outcomes of their actions without complaint.

So, to answer your question, tell the player to make a Fort save and announce the outcome. They don't get a will save to resist the impulse.

tl:dr - if the player wants to play a gonzo character with impulse control issues, he does it without the expectation that his actions has no bad consequences.


Fortitude save happens immediately representing the body fighting off the poison. Now, the fun thing is how one handles multiple concurrent doses.

If the vial has five doses of a DC 15 poison and he downs the vial all at once, the DC should be 23 (+2 DC per dose beyond the first) if I remember the rules correctly. That should help teach him some self control.

And if the bad guys know he's like this, they definitely should put a "Drink Me" sign on the vial.

Now, the player may decide to become more cautious if he expects this trick, but that doesn't mean the character should be. I've run games where willpower (games like World of Darkness) or wisdom checks (not will saves) are made by players to see if their character would do something stupid.

For example, yelling "You're BORING" at a distinguished nobleman during a diplomatic speech. The player knows it is wrong to do it, but the character is impulsive and can't hold himself back.

Sometimes the player does the roll to help him emulate the character's capricious nature. Other times the GM calls for it because it would be in character for the PC to be disruptive. Both works well for this because it is fun to be a bit random.


I can't see any logical reason to not give him a Fortitude save. The lethal dose of arsenic is the same whether you drink it willingly or unwillingly.
(Please don't ask me how I discovered that.)

Sovereign Court

As GM I would have all sorts of fun with this.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

By the rules, all poisons have Fortitude saves, onset times, and frequencies of subsequent saves. There is no reason for a Will save of any sort unless he is being magically compelled to drink the poison (and being played by a stupid player does not count as magical compulsion on the PC).

Just have him attempt the Fortitude saves at the appropriate times and show no mercy in regard to the consequences. Eventually that character will either die of some poison he drank or use up a really valuable potion by drinking it at an inopportune time. Just think how annoyed his fellow players will be when he guzzles down several potions of Cure Serious Wounds while at full health.


It doesn't forgoe a will save on a potion that duplicates a spell withat has one. However, if it's an unidentified potion, you should give him a perception check to recognize it (that's actually in the rules) and maybe spit it out if it's an unwanted spell. Maybe a reflex save to spit it out in time. If he fails the check or save and swallows it, he should get a save appropriate for the spell, unless it has none.

You could mess with him, too.

DM: You're drinking it? Ok, perception check, please.

PLAYER: *Fails it*

DM: The taste is entirety unfamiliar as you tip the bottle up and the mysterious liquid trickles down your gullet. Almost instantly, you feel a spell starting to take hold. You instinctive sense that if you focus your will, you can try to resist its effects.

PLAYER: Eek! Ok, Will save! *Nails it*

DM: Fortunately, you manage to fight off the effects of the Bull's Strength potion.

PLAYER: Motherf%**er!!


After reading all of these posts I have decided to not allow him to roll Fort saves (thank you Rynjin) for poisons he drinks.


Eh, I'd run with it. It's the easy option to make it a poison, but at least IMO, it's a lot more fun to have it be a double-edged boon. I remember a time when I was between games and I was watching a game being livestreamed, and a player failed his wisdom check, and swallowed a potion (long story; there was a pit involved, and no one could figure out the DM's puzzle on how to get past it, so one of the players downed some liquid that was flowing from a font in the room) and the DM was befuddled for a second, but decided to roll with it, and made it so the PC sprouted (painfully, might I add) big, silvery, almost draconic wings. For the next few sessions, the PCs (and more than likely, the DM) were trying to figure out what was going on, until they discovered that the PC was turning into a scion of Bahamut, and growing more and more draconic as the days went along.

Sure, it forced the DM to change around a ton of his plans (though I think the jury remains out on exactly how much he was just winging it), but it made for a campaign that was incredibly memorable, beyond what normally would happen with this such thing, where a DM rules it's a poison, and has the PC die, gagging on his own entrails.


MDCityNIGHT wrote:
I have a PC in a group that i GM for that is quite reckless. It is actually a lot of fun to see how he will react to new situations but if we ever find a vial with anything in it, he will immediately drink it. Now if he drinks a poison am I suppose to tell him that he just drank a poison? Do I even let him roll a Will save?

In my opinion there is a difference between reckless and stupid. This is stupid. What exactly is the purpose to drinking a potion as soon as you find it, without knowing if the effects will even be beneficial? At best it would seem like a wasted potion if its a buff, at worst its simple death.

We had a Rogue in our Skull n Shackles game, and she was incredibly reckless, but every action she had was too a deliberate purpose... like when a man went overboard during a storm, she took off at a dead run across the deck, scooped up a coil of rope and threw one end at another PC and leapt over the side, still tieing it around her waist as she went down into the storm-driven waves... I had to make a Dex check for the PC to catch the rope, a Sailing check for her to get the knot properly tied and several Swim checks for her to reach the man who had gone overboard and then Strength checks for them to haul them both aboard. Even through in a prowling shark to heighten the tension... it made for some dramatic moments and put her character at risk often - but never needlessly.


He gets a fort save to resist the effects of the poison.

Depending on how much he drank it would be a few doses maybe.


MDCityNIGHT wrote:
After reading all of these posts I have decided to not allow him to roll Fort saves (thank you Rynjin) for poisons he drinks.

1.) Why not?

2.) Why thank me? I told you to let him roll Fort. This post is weird.

Liberty's Edge

MDCityNIGHT wrote:
After reading all of these posts I have decided to not allow him to roll Fort saves (thank you Rynjin) for poisons he drinks.

That's not what Rynjin said. Poison saves are normally (always?) Fort saves. Drinking an ingested poison should result in a Fort save, whether or not the drinker was aware that it is poison.

That being said, feel free to have multiple doses of poison in the flask. :)


You can't fix stupid.


He drank poison. Give him the same save as if someone else drank poison. Intent and recklessness are irrelevant. Now if he wants to fail the save, he's free to do so, but that's not the same thing.


Note the type of poison as well. Injury poisons should have little or no effect if drank, unless the drinker has cuts on hir mouth or a bleeding ulcer in hir stomach.


I play RPG with children age 6-10 at my job. They all play like that. It can be great. One time a dwarf drank a potion gone bad at the great wizard Phenomeal Poul abandoned lab. It turned him blue and made him float and swell like a baloon. The others tied a rope to his beard and took turns dragging him along for 2 days until he discovered an ambush from his elevatet position. In the figth that followed a goblin shot him with an arrow and the gass left him. :)
Pehaps that is a bit on the wacky side but i suggest you use the impulsive PC as a comic relif. Let if backfire often but not all in a bad way.

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