So, I have been tinkering around with an adaptation of DC's Batman into Pathfinder as an inquisitor (with some dips), but I wanted to see if the greater community at large had any ideas regarding the build so far.
At a base here is what I have:
Human Rogue 2/Master of Many Styles Monk 1/Rogue 1/Trapper Ranger 1/Inquisitor 15
25 point-buy: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8
Tentative feat selection
Extra Traits [1st], Enforcer [Human], Snake Style [3rd], Snake Fang [Monk1], Extra Rogue Talent (Trap Spotter) [5th], Leadership [7th], Kirin Style [9th], Kirin Strike [11th], [13th], [15th], [17th], and [19th]
Somewhere in those open spots I plan to fit Improved Monster Lore, Nightmare Fist and any other useful feat. Thoughts on useful feats?
So I guess the questions I am having with this build are:
* What is a good archetype for the three-levels of Rogue? I don't need trapfinding (thanks to the level in Trapper Ranger) or trap sense, so the ones I have been contemplating are Rake, Roof Runner or Thug.
* What are some solid feats to enhance the Inquisitor side of this build?
* Are there any mechanical ways to emulate the utility belt?
I'm pretty secure/solid in the outline of the build, but if anyone sees anything that could enhance it while keeping it near the same that would be great as well.
Thematically Roof Runner or Thug would make sense, I think. Thug probably has a better mechanical benefit to be like Batman. Does the character have to be Human? I only ask (and I know this doesn't sound like Batman) because a Halfling can emulate the utility belt easily. Well-Prepared feat is pretty much exactly the utility belt. Only prereq is Halfling, and it lets you make a Sleight of Hand check to have a needed item that you could easily carry on hand. No magic items or very specific items, like no keys for a particular place or the exact documents you need or something. And it gives an option for Survival over Sleight of Hand, which is something to consider.
There is a mechanical way to emulate the utility belt to a degree, but it requires levels in the Alchemist class.
Otherwise, you're just going to have to use a lot of belt pouches, buy a lot of alchemical items, and take a couple of feats to enhance thrown items.
Thematically Roof Runner or Thug would make sense, I think. Thug probably has a better mechanical benefit to be like Batman. Does the character have to be Human? I only ask (and I know this doesn't sound like Batman) because a Halfling can emulate the utility belt easily. Well-Prepared feat is pretty much exactly the utility belt. Only prereq is Halfling, and it lets you make a Sleight of Hand check to have a needed item that you could easily carry on hand. No magic items or very specific items, like no keys for a particular place or the exact documents you need or something. And it gives an option for Survival over Sleight of Hand, which is something to consider.
While the feat does mesh well with the idea of the utility belt I'd be apprehensive in changing from Human to Halfling for a feat usable once per day.
But thanks for your thoughts!
why the trapper ranger?
why the trapper ranger?
If grants martial weapon proficiencies, a favored enemy, and trapfinding (which I will trade away from Rogue).
Extra Bane feat is nice mechanically, as bane is the 2nd best buff in the game (behind Smite Evil, but only by a little) as far as I am concerned. Rich Parents trait doesn't offer anything long-run, but its a very flavorful trait to choose.
I'll look at Extra Bane!
Also I'm going through all the traits with a fine comb trying to find thematically appropriate but still mechanically rewarding ones for the build.
Utility Belt:
One level of Pathfinder Chronicler gets you Deep Pockets:
A Pathfinder chronicler collects items as well as lore, picking up small amounts of this or that throughout her travels. As a result, she may carry unspecified equipment worth up to 100 gp per class level. This can be any kind of gear that can reasonably fit into a backpack, including potions and scrolls (but not any other sort of magic item). As a full-round action, the chronicler may dig through her pockets to retrieve an item she specifies at that time, deducting its value from the allocated amount of cost. This item cannot weigh more than 10 pounds. When the total remaining cost reaches 0, the chronicler can retrieve no more items until she refills her deep pockets by spending a few hours and an amount of gold to bring her total up to 100 gp per class level.
In addition, if she takes 1 hour to pack her gear each day, she gains a +4 bonus to Strength to determine her light encumbrance. This does not affect her maximum carrying capacity. The efficient distribution of weight simply encumbers her less than the same amount of weight normally should. Finally, the Pathfinder chronicler gains a +4 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal small objects on her person.
Skills: Linguistics 3 ranks, Perform (oratory) 5 ranks, Profession (scribe) 5 ranks*.
Special: Must have authored or scribed something (other than a magical scroll or other device) for which another person (not a PC) paid at least 50 gp.
Feat:
Extra Talent (Terrain Mastery):Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a favored terrain as the ranger ability of the same name, though the favored terrain ability does not increase with her level as the ranger’s ability does.
Special: A rogue can take this ability multiple times, each time applying it to a new terrain, and granting all other favored terrains a +2 increase to the favored terrain bonus.
Note this is a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival skill checks when in this terrain.
/cevah
Utility Belt:
One level of Pathfinder Chronicler gets you Deep Pockets:
A Pathfinder chronicler collects items as well as lore, picking up small amounts of this or that throughout her travels. As a result, she may carry unspecified equipment worth up to 100 gp per class level. This can be any kind of gear that can reasonably fit into a backpack, including potions and scrolls (but not any other sort of magic item). As a full-round action, the chronicler may dig through her pockets to retrieve an item she specifies at that time, deducting its value from the allocated amount of cost. This item cannot weigh more than 10 pounds. When the total remaining cost reaches 0, the chronicler can retrieve no more items until she refills her deep pockets by spending a few hours and an amount of gold to bring her total up to 100 gp per class level.
In addition, if she takes 1 hour to pack her gear each day, she gains a +4 bonus to Strength to determine her light encumbrance. This does not affect her maximum carrying capacity. The efficient distribution of weight simply encumbers her less than the same amount of weight normally should. Finally, the Pathfinder chronicler gains a +4 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal small objects on her person.
Skills: Linguistics 3 ranks, Perform (oratory) 5 ranks, Profession (scribe) 5 ranks*.
Special: Must have authored or scribed something (other than a magical scroll or other device) for which another person (not a PC) paid at least 50 gp.
Feat:
Extra Talent (Terrain Mastery):
Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a favored...
While the Deep Pockets ability is nice I think it comes at took high a price for the build in having to steer & enter the prestige class.
But taking extra rogue talent for favored terrain (urban) is certainly a valid option. Do you think it is strong enough?
I think the favored terrain bonus is good, and by adding a second one, the first goes to +4. If you pick up the Horizon Walker PrC, you can get Terrain Dominance at 3rd.
At 3rd level, a horizon walker learns total dominance over one terrain he has already selected for terrain mastery. When dealing with creatures native to that terrain, the horizon walker treats his favored terrain bonus for that terrain as a favored enemy bonus (as the ranger class feature) against those creatures. This bonus overlaps (does not stack with) bonuses gained when fighting a favored enemy.
Each terrain dominance grants additional abilities, detailed below. When the horizon walker gains a new terrain dominance he may, if he prefers, instead pick an additional terrain mastery.
This can really boost your attack and damage.
At 2nd, you can boost allies Climb, Stealth, Perception and Survival checks by 2 as a move action for a short time.
/cevah
I think the favored terrain bonus is good, and by adding a second one, the first goes to +4. If you pick up the Horizon Walker PrC, you can get Terrain Dominance at 3rd.
At 3rd level, a horizon walker learns total dominance over one terrain he has already selected for terrain mastery. When dealing with creatures native to that terrain, the horizon walker treats his favored terrain bonus for that terrain as a favored enemy bonus (as the ranger class feature) against those creatures. This bonus overlaps (does not stack with) bonuses gained when fighting a favored enemy.
Each terrain dominance grants additional abilities, detailed below. When the horizon walker gains a new terrain dominance he may, if he prefers, instead pick an additional terrain mastery.
This can really boost your attack and damage.
At 2nd, you can boost allies Climb, Stealth, Perception and Survival checks by 2 as a move action for a short time.
/cevah
I'm still apprehensive about tweaking the build outline, especially with three levels into Horizon Walker (including having to meet its prerequisites).
But I'll take a more in-depth look into grabbing Extra Rogue Talent (Favored Terrain: Urban).
By the way, I have my list of traits squared away to these four.
Magical Knack (Inquisitor), World Traveler (Sense Motive), Crusader Tactician (Knowledge: Nobility) and Blade of Mercy.
Thoughts?
I'm still apprehensive about tweaking the build outline, especially with three levels into Horizon Walker (including having to meet its prerequisites).
But I'll take a more in-depth look into grabbing Extra Rogue Talent (Favored Terrain: Urban).
By the way, I have my list of traits squared away to these four.
Magical Knack (Inquisitor), World Traveler (Sense Motive), Crusader Tactician (Knowledge: Nobility) and Blade of Mercy.
Thoughts?
Made into links.
Check out A guide to Traits.
To determine if Magical Knack is worthwhile, check to see if +2 caster actually helps you. It probably does, but may not.
World Traveler is a bad choice. Ranger already has Sense Motive as a class skill, so you only get +1 from from the trait.
Crusader Tactician gets you Knowledge(nobility) as a class skill, and with a +1, netting effectively +4. However, the only listed DCs are:
10 Know current rulers and their symbols
15 Know proper etiquette
20 Know line of succession
Does this help your character concept? I can't think of a good use for this. Remember, Batman is not a noble, Bruce Wayne is. Batman uses terror against the bad guys, and doesn't kill. Intimidate is a good skill for this, and Extremely Fashionable could help here.
Blade of Mercy is nice for this idea.
/cevah
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I agree with tkul on classes,Urban Ranger3, Ninja16, Monk1. Sometimes you have to house rule to make things fit though. Give him Deep Pockets or Well Prepared in a custom magic item, belt slot, tomes and manuals +4 for each stat to represent the best tutors and personal trainers money can buy, and a 30pt build, evenly spread out, to represent natural talent. Make Bardic Knowledge an advanced Ninja trick. Half-elven for night vision, longevity and +2 Intelligence. Finally, the main reason Batman whoops everyone else is that he is the only 20th level hero in Gotham. The only ones who can match that are Superman (Paladin 20, Kryptonian archetype) and Ra's al Ghul(Druid, Reincarnated 5, Ninja 15).
Couple nitpicks.
1. I don't think MOMS is actually doing a heck of a lot for you aside from eating up feats.
What would you recommend in its place? I feel it grants Improved Unarmed Strike (with 1d6 starting weapon dice), a free style feat, the ability to have two style feats active at the same time (this is only attractive if Kirin Strike is indeed a valuable feat to the build), some exotic weapon proficiencies and a boost to saves.
2. You couldn't convince me to emulate Batman with a Human. Trying to do the whole avenging night stalker thing with Human vision is just terrible if all the lighting and vision rules are followed.
What race do you think would be a better choice?
3. Why Rogue? Why not Ninja? You could accomplish everything you wanted from Rogue and have access to smoke bombs which are smoke sticks that actually work. Hell, you're already dropping Trapfinding from Rogue so you can take it later as a Ranger. Just drop Rogue altogether.
I wanted access to some of the Rogue archetypes as well as Evasion. If a strong case could be made Ninja is a perfect substitute.
4. Consider the Tactics Subdomain. Init rerolls are nice and the 8th level power lets you choose a Combat Feat to have and use for a number of rounds equal to your level. Rounds don't have to be consecutive and a new feat can be chosen every time you use the ability. So when you're fighting easy to hit enemies you have Power Attack for exactly as long as you need it. Then for flying enemies you can have Rapid Shot for exactly as long as you need it. Etc. Being Batman is about being prepared and handling difficult situations on the fly, the Tactics subdomain is awesome for that.
I had looked at the Tactics Subdomain and you make a really great point. Right now it is between that and the Night Subdomain.
Of course my actual opinion is just to go 20 Inquisitor because it is an extremely well built class that will handle everything you want anyway.
I do love the Inquisitor class but I felt the build overall needed some additional components that only multiclassing can fulfill. I also feel that the multiclassing and such early on in the build somewhat emulates Bruce's eclectic training before he gets back to Gotham and becomes the Batman (at which point it is straight Inquisitor).
Made into links.
Check out A guide to Traits.
To determine if Magical Knack is worthwhile, check to see if +2 caster actually helps you. It probably does, but may not.
World Traveler is a bad choice. Ranger already has Sense Motive as a class skill, so you only get +1 from from the trait.
Crusader Tactician gets you Knowledge(nobility) as a class skill, and with a +1, netting effectively +4. However, the only listed DCs are:
10 Know current rulers and their symbols
15 Know proper etiquette
20 Know line of succession
Does this help your character concept? I can't think of a good use for this. Remember, Batman is not a noble, Bruce Wayne is. Batman uses terror against the bad guys, and doesn't kill. Intimidate is a good skill for this, and Extremely Fashionable could help here.Blade of Mercy is nice for this idea.
/cevah
Fair points all around, I'll re-examine my list of traits.
Kirin Style is a Trap on an Inquisitor, you have better things to be spending Swift Actions on.
Could you elaborate more on this point?
3. Why Rogue? Why not Ninja? You could accomplish everything you wanted from Rogue and have access to smoke bombs which are smoke sticks that actually work. Hell, you're already dropping Trapfinding from Rogue so you can take it later as a Ranger. Just drop Rogue altogether.I wanted access to some of the Rogue archetypes as well as Evasion. If a strong case could be made Ninja is a perfect substitute.
If you take 2 levels of Monk, you get Evasion.
Ninja gets some Rogue archetypes as well. Just check that they have the class features replaced. My check shows that Bandit, Sanctified Rogue, Scout, Trapsmith, Cat Burglar (Catfolk), Mageslayer, Stalker, and Untouchable all work./cevah
For the inquisitor part, why not look to the heresy inquisition, it will allow you to use your wisdom instead for charisma for intimidate and bluff checks
3. Why Rogue? Why not Ninja? You could accomplish everything you wanted from Rogue and have access to smoke bombs which are smoke sticks that actually work. Hell, you're already dropping Trapfinding from Rogue so you can take it later as a Ranger. Just drop Rogue altogether.I wanted access to some of the Rogue archetypes as well as Evasion. If a strong case could be made Ninja is a perfect substitute.If you take 2 levels of Monk, you get Evasion.
Ninja gets some Rogue archetypes as well. Just check that they have the class features replaced. My check shows that Bandit, Sanctified Rogue, Scout, Trapsmith, Cat Burglar (Catfolk), Mageslayer, Stalker, and Untouchable all work./cevah
I guess what I would need for the first five levels are:
* Trapfinding* Evasion
* Sneak Attack +2d6
* Unarmed Proficiency/Damage
* Access to Rogue Talents
So how would you go about switching out Rogue for Ninja?
I guess what I would need for the first five levels are:
* Trapfinding
* Evasion
* Sneak Attack +2d6
* Unarmed Proficiency/Damage
* Access to Rogue TalentsSo how would you go about switching out Rogue for Ninja?
You get Trapfinding with Ranger(Trapper) 1.
You get Evasion with Monk 2.You get Sneak Attack +2d6 with Ninja 3.
You get Unarmed Profficiency/Damage with Monk 1.
You get Access to Rogue Talents with Ninja Trick: Rogue Talent.
Unfortunately, that adds up to 6 levels. If you drop +1d6 Sneak Attack, you can get the rest in 5 levels. The second level of Monk does net you a free style feat.
That extra d6 won't make much difference. Getting Sneak Attack can be difficult, and getting it with a full round attack is even harder. Yes, it is nice, but by no means required.
/cevah
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If the ninja is only for Vanishing Trick, I'd go with Rogue3/Unarmed Fighter2 for better BAB, 2 style feats, and then the rogue talents Ki Pool (Its wisdom-based, no problem for an inquisitor) and Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick). You can select Ki power tricks as extra talent feat choices.
That nets you trapfinding, evasion, sneak attack +2d6, and rogue talent access.
You could go with a Monk1/Archaeologist Bard4/Inquisitor15, or perhaps 2 levels of monk if you really need evasion, and get Trapfinding +2, A rogue talent, Bard Spells (cure light wounds anyone?), and archaeologist's luck. Combined with lingering performance feat and (if possible) fate's favored trait, you can get a +2 attack, damage, saves, and skill checks a lot of times a day (3*[10+Cha]), and all as a swift action. Evasion can be obtained through a ring, and having said ring makes since as you are a super-rich billionare. And uncanny dodge is just as useful.
Also, you need the goggles that give you darkvision. Its your mask (or cowl or whatever its called).
Bruce Wayne, millionaire playboy scoffs at Charisma as dump stat.
(As does the terrifyingly Intimidating Dark Knight.)
Is this for actual play, or just a thought experiment? Because I feel like giving him Mythic Tiers is both thematically and mechanically appropriate, as there are several mythic options that feel like they would work for a Batman character.
Also, for a thought experiment, what would his rogues gallery consist of?
My thoughts are:
Joker - Bard/Alchemist MC (potentially Vivisectionist, depending on what type of Joker you're going for)
Poison Ivy - Druid
Mr. Freeze - Winter Oracle
Scarecrow - Fear focused Sorcerer or possibly witch
Bane - Brutal Pugilist Barbarian
None of this is going to work, until we know:
Which Batman are you building?
I probably take away the ideal "Batman" from the DCAU.
Is this for actual play, or just a thought experiment? Because I feel like giving him Mythic Tiers is both thematically and mechanically appropriate, as there are several mythic options that feel like they would work for a Batman character.
This is more of a thought experiment.
But I'll take a look at the mythic rules!