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Ryan, are you completely crazy, the price of magic items is all ready out of whack with the WBL expectations by level. I just retired a my magus and was only able to by a staff at 13th level that's just ridiculous. If you want to play a low no magic game thats fine but don't try to ruin the fun for those of us who like a med to high magic game by further limiting
what we can buy with the meager resources the society provides its agents.
I would make NPC's a 20 point buy for creation. I would also give NPC's
greater access to consumables and staffs and wands of higher caster.
I would actually give out good boons not boons that are nerfed like the owlbear boon and
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2) Katana as a finesse-able weapon and 1d10 instead of 1d8.This is why my ninja uses an Elven curve blade. He calls it a real man's katana.As an asian, I find the whole "katanas are just better" trope endlessly amusing.
Then again, out of all of my numerous characters over the years, maybe 3 used swords of any kind, and only one used any sort of one handed blade. And she largely stopped melee after the first few levels to focus on casting.
-j
"Silly Caucasian girl likes to play with samurai swords."
It might be cliché, but hillbillies love them some katanas (because they are just better). I have a tetsubo too. Any problem with that? ;)
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1) Spears as one-handed weapons through EWP or a trait. Opens up some historical build flavor without having to just be a phalanx fighter.For what it's worth, shortspears are already one-handed.
Tridents work too, but they shouldn't have to. But thanks for trying to be helpful. I appreciate the thought.
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Ryan, are you completely crazy, the price of magic items is all ready out of whack with the WBL expectations by level. I just retired a my magus and was only able to by a staff at 13th level that's just ridiculous. If you want to play a low no magic game thats fine but don't try to ruin the fun for those of us who like a med to high magic game by further limiting
what we can buy with the meager resources the society provides its agents.I would make NPC's a 20 point buy for creation. I would also give NPC's
greater access to consumables and staffs and wands of higher caster.I would actually give out good boons not boons that are nerfed like the owlbear boon and ** spoiler omitted ** Mike if you are going to give out a boon like the owl bear boon limit it to a scenario that is 4th level or above so the boon is just not cosmetic and limited further by tying it to an AC that has been hit so hard by the nerf bat that it is not playable. Note Mike it is not your fault that the Bear AC has been hosed that the faults rules guys who listened to a bunch of Whiney players who cry if they think something is to powerful. see above [Ryan's attempting to nerf buying magic items]
Lou, I agree with your sentiments about NPCs needing to be built with a 20 point buy (what's good for the goose, right?) and also about the desire for more things like Gamin the Misforged on chronicles. Also, I do prefer a very low-magic game on both sides, NPC and PC. That said, I think you're taking this way too seriously, and as a result might have missed the end goal of my (never going to be implemented in any form) pipe dream scenario.
First, and this is incredibly important given the word choice in your post, what I suggest could not be implemented short of a complete campaign reset. That's not in the cards. You can rest easy knowing the Fame rules will stick around if only because the nightmare of converting PCs would be campaign-shaking. Alternatively, grandfathered PCs from the old system would create an environment where new players after whatever point the new rules took effect would be inherently disadvantaged; they're essentially punished for not showing up early enough. That was a major complaint against Living Greyhawk and Living Arcanis during 3.5e; PFS should learn from their mistakes and avoid that. Nevermind auditing nightmares, those reasons alone ensure that my wishes remain just wishes, not reality.
With that out of the way, while I appreciate that some folks like more magic in their world than I do PFS-Golarion is somewhere north of ultra-high magic at the moment. My (purely hypothetical, can't stress this enough) idea is not about curbing the number of magic items as a whole but about curbing the number of rare, powerful items PCs are running about with. So, to borrow your example, your magus can still have his staff because most of his gear should be readily available from dead NPCs like rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, and the +2 stat item(s) of his choice. However, now he has to choose if he wants his uber-staff or his boots of speed, or his +6 headband of vast intellect. That's a good choice, because its not an easy one. The goal is to avoid PCs like my bloatmage, who are running around with a +6 headband, a staff of the master, and a small solar system of obscure ioun stones that I've never seen an NPC so much as pick up. As an added side effect, the Treasure entries of scenarios suddenly matter because even if the NPC didn't use gear itself, say because it came out of a Bestiary, it still is allotted treasure for the author to distribute. That should at least have some +4 stat items and boots of speed showing up in 10-11.
I don't want all the magic ripped out of Golarion; other settings already do no magic fantasy much better than Golarion could and if that's the game I'm itching for I play in those settings. I want to level the playing field between PCs and the NPCs they fight by giving the PCs fewer (not none, but fewer) items per PC that are incredibly rare, unique, and significantly more powerful than could be afforded on NPC wealth. In a traditional campaign PCs would have to live with the loot of their fallen foes and find their ideal, build-specific items either in the loot or through crafting or dealing with friendly merchants, traders, crafters, and so on. PFS (rightly) bans crafting and needs to codify the shopping spree. Right now, the fame system handwaives it by assuming you succeed. I'd rather that the Fame system simply opened doors for the PCs but that PCs still had to bank enough favors to get exactly what they're looking for.
Which, I can't stress this enough, will never happen in any form; the Fame rules are here to stay, even though I don't like it.
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Open - nothing but the money/build/source material required to use it. Similar to, but a bit more extensive than, the Always Available ite, list in PFS.
Closed - Never available to PCs, but, sometimes, with permission, available for use by an NPC in a scenario. Usually similar to things on the banned list in PFS.
Other - these were the things that were not open access, but not banned. Access to them required their being on an Adventure Record (and those rules, for use of them, could get pretty bizarre, too), and frequently had location and/or quantity limitations. And, because of the limitations on access, made a lot of character builds just plain not work.
So, you are now 9th level, and have never run across a Headband of Vast Intellect of any sort on your travels, and you are a Wizard. Ugly, bad, and just not much fun, in my experience.
Did you know that there were like 5 to 9 pages (or was it more?) in the last Guide to Living Greyhawk Organized Play document, just listing by name, various items that were of X status?
Feats:
Open:
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Power Attack
.
.
.
Closed:
Spell Perfection
Spell Focus
.
.
.
Non-Open, Non-Closed:
Leadership
Zen Archery
.
.
.
Not even source, just the barebones type and name. Page after page of it. Always made me think of my Accounting textbooks, for some reason.
And, of course, even for the Open stuff, you then got to spend time and effort tracking down the source, so you could look it up, see if it was applicable to the PC you were working on, and make a copy of the page to include with the PC if you chose it. Ugh.
One PFS rule I want to change? Bring back the Undead Lord archetype for Clerics.
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** spoiler omitted **
One PFS rule I want to change? Bring back the Undead Lord archetype for Clerics.
My hypothetical addresses that; you spend accumulated favors (Prestige Points) to gain access to those rare items, but they are still available to all PCs. All that it limits is quantity. The number of PP relative to cost can be adjusted to taste as well, for more or less availability. However, as a former LGer I suspect you remember the crafters who had a silver bullet item for every situation? PFS has turned every PC into that guy, and I wish that it could be undone because that was some of the least enjoyable gaming I've participated in.
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Ryan, are you completely crazy, the price of magic items is all ready out of whack with the WBL expectations by level. I just retired a my magus and was only able to by a staff at 13th level that's just ridiculous. If you want to play a low no magic game thats fine but don't try to ruin the fun for those of us who like a med to high magic game by further limiting
what we can buy with the meager resources the society provides its agents.I would make NPC's a 20 point buy for creation. I would also give NPC's
greater access to consumables and staffs and wands of higher caster.I would actually give out good boons not boons that are nerfed like the owlbear boon and ** spoiler omitted ** Mike if you are going to give out a boon like the owl bear boon limit it to a scenario that is 4th level or above so the boon is just not cosmetic and limited further by tying it to an AC that has been hit so hard by the nerf bat that it is not playable. Note Mike it is not your fault that the Bear AC has been hosed that the faults rules guys who listened to a bunch of Whiney players who cry if they think something is to powerful. see above [Ryan's attempting to nerf buying magic items]
Medium magic games are the best in my opinion; PCs are very capable, but not unmanageable. Some GMs claim PFS hands out all this money, but everything comes out of that pot, and there is no item creation. I find PFS to be very build-dependent with low magic capability for this reason.
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Y'know, I did just come up with a rule I bet a lot of players would like; allow us to keep our animated dead between scenarios. You don't want to parade them around in a town, but what about a guy with a bag of holding? They don't need air. You could just drop them in there for safekeeping till it was time to roll. People without one could simply refrain from bringing them into civilized areas and pick'em up later.
I would change the no changing the rules rule.
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I agree with Kerney. Almost all my PCs would love to PvP some Cheliaxans.
David, I'm curious about this sentiment; what about players whose PCs are in the Cheliax faction makes you want to engage in PvP? I can understand positions like Kerney's, even though I don't share it, but your statement takes the dislike beyond just not liking morally questionable PCs. Would you be willing to expand on that sentiment?
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Yes, she did by more than 800 years. She passed the test in 3832 AR and House Thrune took hold in 4640 AR.Not all Cheliaxans are bad guys. Sure, most are real jerks, but some are really beneficial to the Society, like Venture-Captain Varian Jeggare. Some were gods, like Iomedae.Didn't she predate the whole selling your soul for the evil empire thing?
Ah, ok. I knew that she was Cheliaxan, but was not up to date on the timeline stuff. Thanks for the information.
...so he have one guy that is a decent person from Cheliax, but he gets sick every time he casts a spell...
We are so doomed....
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I agree with Kerney. Almost all my PCs would love to PvP some Cheliaxans.David, I'm curious about this sentiment; what about players whose PCs are in the Cheliax faction makes you want to engage in PvP? I can understand positions like Kerney's, even though I don't share it, but your statement takes the dislike beyond just not liking morally questionable PCs. Would you be willing to expand on that sentiment?
Well, that's assuming that my good PCs are aware of the devilish influence on Cheliax. Devils are unspeakably horrible to those PCs who understand what they are and anyone helping them should be opposed.
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I agree with Kerney. Almost all my PCs would love to PvP some Cheliaxans.David, I'm curious about this sentiment; what about players whose PCs are in the Cheliax faction makes you want to engage in PvP? I can understand positions like Kerney's, even though I don't share it, but your statement takes the dislike beyond just not liking morally questionable PCs. Would you be willing to expand on that sentiment?
I have no desire for PvP. In fact, I was angry that the Shadow Lodge ended with pseudo PvP with Grandmaster Torch (this is a faction ending, where the faction goal is not achieved and the faction members are shown to be dupes should NEVER be repeated).
Going back and changing things from the start is one thing. Ending Cheliax as a faction and then making them bad guys is another (and yes, I know this contradicts my feeling I have with the Shadow Lodge). But no PvP.
Working for Cheliax turns my stomach because off screen, they are building concentration camps, torturing people, and doing what I hate most in this world, bringing more and more people into it. But I realise they are a faction. I don't play them but I am never rude to players who do.
Guess at heart my favorite pathfinder deity is Milani. But I also wouldn't make a worshiper of her as a PC because the whole explore, report, cooperate thing makes her a somewhat inappropriate diety for PFS.
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Well, that's assuming that my good PCs are aware of the devilish influence on Cheliax. Devils are unspeakably horrible to those PCs who understand what they are and anyone helping them should be opposed.I agree with Kerney. Almost all my PCs would love to PvP some Cheliaxans.David, I'm curious about this sentiment; what about players whose PCs are in the Cheliax faction makes you want to engage in PvP? I can understand positions like Kerney's, even though I don't share it, but your statement takes the dislike beyond just not liking morally questionable PCs. Would you be willing to expand on that sentiment?
You are likely to find that many PCs of the faction don't actually have anything to do with most of the badness going down over there. I mean... there are exceptions. Heck, I'd say a lot of the players aren't even aware of just how much bad the empire is up to.
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I would make Wands of CLW unavailable for sale via PP (leaving the direct purchase via gold or via chronicle sheet) as they only way to buy one.
I think whilst it might make games a little more deadly, it would also perhaps change some players perceptions of how to treat battle. Would we find people be as cocky without the ability that they can burn 2 pp to get a wand?
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I would make Wands of CLW unavailable for sale via PP (leaving the direct purchase via gold or via chronicle sheet) as they only way to buy one.
I think whilst it might make games a little more deadly, it would also perhaps change some players perceptions of how to treat battle. Would we find people be as cocky without the ability that they can burn 2 pp to get a wand?
More than a bit deadly. You'd have people getting stuck playing the pre gen cleric just so the game could go off.
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Yes, she did by more than 800 years. She passed the test in 3832 AR and House Thrune took hold in 4640 AR.Not all Cheliaxans are bad guys. Sure, most are real jerks, but some are really beneficial to the Society, like Venture-Captain Varian Jeggare. Some were gods, like Iomedae.Didn't she predate the whole selling your soul for the evil empire thing?Ah, ok. I knew that she was Cheliaxan, but was not up to date on the timeline stuff. Thanks for the information.
...so he have one guy that is a decent person from Cheliax, but he gets sick every time he casts a spell...
We are so doomed....
I think you missed another point: Count Varian Jeggare is a half-elf, and also pre-dates the Chelaxian devil contract. Indeed, he has been shown to not be terribly enthralled with the current worship nor leadership of Cheliax, and he, IIRC, worships another deity very quietly.
So, no, all the "good" Chelaxians in Pathfinder/Golarion lore are from before the current government, and their contracts, came to power.
Add that bit of wealth by level breaking in with spending XP and half gold for items, and it didn't take long for a mid-level Wizard/crafter to have an item stock that was totally inappropriate for his level. And probably, in some cases, pushing the 200,000 gp cap.
LG was definitely waaaay off the wealth by level curve for anyone paying attention, other than at low levels; and the Intro scenarios, at least the ones I got to play, were disproportionately deadly. Not to mention some of the less than wise things that were being done to opponents in the other scenarios...
A CR 5 mummy in an APL 2 scenario. Makes that wight & shadow thing in Accursed Halls seem as balanced as it is.
CR X opponents, with all sorts of "no change to CR" bumps, making them effectively, if not by calculation, tougher than some of the unrated encounters I have seen in LG scenarios, as well.
And, of course, who can ever forget the Dire CHickens? "That's what she said!" Morganites.
And, of course, the joy that is Pholtus, and the Theocracy of the Pale.
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I think you missed another point: Count Varian Jeggare is a half-elf, and also pre-dates the Chelaxian devil contract. Indeed, he has been shown to not be terribly enthralled with the current worship nor leadership of Cheliax, and he, IIRC, worships another deity very quietly.
So, no, all the "good" Chelaxians in Pathfinder/Golarion lore are from before the current government, and their contracts, came to power.
** spoiler omitted **...
So, two huge sidetracks going now. Awesome. My work here is nearly complete.
However, Kinevon's and Kerney's assessments of Cheliax just don't mesh with the canonical material I've read on Cheliax's activities. In fact, most Chelaxians never see a devil (Cheliax, Empire of Devils 5), aren't Evil (CEoD 24), and venerate other deities while paying lip-service to Asmodeous as the state religion (CEoD 24). I can find no references corroborating the existence of concentration camps, I can find no references to all Chelish persons being Evil.
Both these spurious claims are unfounded, and while Cheliax the nation is undoubtedly Evil there's a lot going on in that nation that makes it a worthwhile addition to the campaign. It is no more Evil than the Sczarni, an organized crime syndicate affiliated with drug-dealing (Magnimar, City of Monuments 10), smuggling (MCoM 13), and protection rackets (MCoM 27-28). Arguing for one to go but the other to stay based on issues of morality is simply nonsensical or based solely on emotion; they are equally Evil.
However, the one place I feel PFS has failed is that the gear in PFS is always exactly what you want, and you know exactly when you'll have it available to you so a player can map out their purchases to gain their items at the earliest possible level. Nobody ever has to make due with the best things available rather than having exactly what they want, and items that are typically pegged for the 10-15 game, the "mid levels", have become 7th level purchases in PFS. Its not quite as bad as LGers having the silver-bullet item for every possible outcome, but its pretty close. Its especially prevalent in the +4 (and for casters, +6) stat items that pop up during 1-12 play (which, other than casters, is ridiculous IMHO).
I think PFS has done a good job with the availability of wealth. I think its about right for a medium magic setting. However, I think the quality of items available has strayed into ultra-high magic territory. That's not my preferred brand of fantasy so I posted a wish in the wish list thread that it be pared back to something lower on the spectrum of magic availability.
Anyway, both those sidetracks probably deserve, at this point, separate threads. If we want to keep discussing them, we should take them elsewhere and preserve the wish list for those who want to add their own ideas, rather than arguing over pipe dreams we've already posted that will never make their way into PFS (excepting the possible contraction of the Cheliax faction).
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With that out of the way, while I appreciate that some folks like more magic in their world than I do PFS-Golarion is somewhere north of ultra-high magic at the moment. My (purely hypothetical, can't stress this enough) idea is not about curbing the number of magic items as a whole but about curbing the number of rare, powerful items PCs are running about with. So, to borrow your example, your magus can still have his staff because most of his gear should be readily available from dead NPCs like rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, and the +2 stat item(s) of his choice. However, now he has to choose if he wants his uber-staff or his boots of speed, or his +6 headband of vast intellect. That's a good choice, because its not an easy one. The goal is to avoid PCs like my bloatmage, who are running around with a +6 headband, a staff of the master, and a small solar system of obscure ioun stones that I've never seen an NPC so much as pick up. As an added side effect, the Treasure entries of scenarios suddenly matter because even if the NPC didn't use gear itself, say because it came out of a Bestiary, it still is allotted treasure for the author to distribute. That should at least have some +4 stat items and boots of speed showing up in 10-11.
I just saw this and I don't understand how it would do anything except all but eliminate the use of interesting items. If people have to spend Prestige to get their necessary items then they are not going to buy anything but their bread and butter items since they run out of prestige before buying anything interesting. So no one will have the staff or the boots of speed because everyone ran out of prestige after buying their headband +6 and their metamagic rods. That is what sounds like a more boring game, where there is no leeway to try interesting things because you wast your most limited resource on the cookie-cutter stuff that everyone needs.
If you rely on chronicle availability to make up to shortfall then you are going to get tables full of nothing but the one build who wants an item on the sheet playing through the scenario. Because the information about what is on each chronicle will get out, either by people reading spoiler threads on the forums or by talking to other people at the table. Also NPC wealth is not nearly enough to support them having pretty much any item at the level when it would be appropriate for a PC to first be able to buy it.
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I am, myself, over 50, and I find those Chelaxian faction mission briefings that I had out extremely ... unsettling, and am happy that they are pretty much gone.
I also find that, in our area, most Chelaxian and Taldor players act like jerks when they are running those PCs, although they tend to be much nicer when using their PCs from other factions. YMMV.
As to Cheliax itself, it is, indeed, a nation aligned with Devils, Evil outsiders, who have no interest in the welfare of non-Outsiders, other than what any contract they are bound by has committed them to.
I made a factual statement, that Varian Jeggare, according to Dave Gross's stories, is old enough to have been raised in pre-Asmodeus Cheliax, and is not an Asmodeus worshipper, nor very happy with the state of his nation.
Please do NOT commit me to statements I have never made, that all Chelaxians are evil, when I have never stated that. I will, however, state that my PFS experiences with Chelaxians PCs is, at best, that they don't wave their allegiance around like a red flag. Some do, and usually in ways that make my play experience less pleasant.
I have, from a different direction, and possibly limited to only a few PCs, a similar experience with players RPing their Taldor PCs as over-the-top arrogant.
Sczarni PCs, in my experience, and probably because of how the faction is portrayed, tend to be a lot lower key. Maybe because the faction is Rogue-oriented, but keeping a low profile seems to be my experience with Sczarni PCs. YMMV.
IIRC, your proposed PP purchase cost ratio, at 1 PP per 1,000 gp price increment, or fraction thereof, would not equate very well with actual wealth by level magic guidelines, and would, as an example, leave an 11th level PC, with an 82,000 gp WbL, with, at most, 66,000 gp worth of magical items, including consumables. That leaves an imbalance of 16,000 gp in mundane equipment and non-magical items.
Just something to think about.
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I would allow rebuild at any time.
Likely because I have VERY few opportunities to play PFS and thus almost zero real possibility to play different builds with different characters.
Getting a single character to level 6 in almost 5 years of PFS play and NOT being able to slightly rebuild it to include new options unavailable 5 years ago is VERY frustrating.
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Please do NOT commit me to statements I have never made, that all Chelaxians are evil, when I have never stated that.
So, no, all the "good" Chelaxians in Pathfinder/Golarion lore are from before the current government, and their contracts, came to power.
You only implied it. ;) We disagree on this faction's value to the campaign, and that's fine. I can empathize with that position even though I don't share it, and I wouldn't weep to see Cheliax and the Sczarni go (as long as they went together). Many other threads have better covered the false relationship between faction membership and jerk players, so I'll leave that alone. I will be more careful to cite which statements of yours I am referencing so we know exactly what was said by both parties in any future discussion.
In re: the wealth suggestion, I ended up typing up a borderline essay in response to this. I believe it would be an excellent step for the campaign to limit, but not eliminate entirely, high-value items. I believe that it would push the players to make choices about what items they and their characters value; in Saint Caleth's example, the player has chosen metamagic rods over the staff and have to live with the consequence, not having a staff. That said, it will never happen in PFS. As the discussion has no merit, I'm willing to let it die at this. If someone wants to read the long response I've saved it to a text file and would be happy to share it for the sake of intellectual discussion; there's just no point in expending energy on the discussion anymore.
I would allow rebuild at any time.
Likely because I have VERY few opportunities to play PFS and thus almost zero real possibility to play different builds with different characters.
Getting a single character to level 6 in almost 5 years of PFS play and NOT being able to slightly rebuild it to include new options unavailable 5 years ago is VERY frustrating.
There ARE rebuild rules allowed now. Ultimate Campaign. It costs gold and PP to use those rebuild rules, but you can effect some pretty significant changes.
-j
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Changes to the PFS rules.... overall Im pretty happy with them but if I could offer a couple of ideas:
1. open up more races. Whenever I get new folks, especially the younger ones, they are often excited by the more anthropomorphic races (rise of the furries I guess). Telling them no makes me sad.
2. Replay rules. I'd like this opened up more. In my community the amount of players are pretty small so selecting one scenario over another frequently becomes a pain in the butt over finding something that everyone can play. I blame online gaming for this as players get the chance to play many more games than they otherwise might and thus in my situation it constricts who can or can't play X scenario. (Not trying to flame online play, I love it, but noting its observed effect on my circle of FLGS players).
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If someone wants to read the long response I've saved it to a text file and would be happy to share it for the sake of intellectual discussion; there's just no point in expending energy on the discussion anymore.
I would actually be curious as to why you don't think that your proposal would lead to cookie-cutter item choice and/or farming chronicles for items your build needs.
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You are likely to find that many PCs of the faction don't actually have anything to do with most of the badness going down over there. I mean... there are exceptions. Heck, I'd say a lot of the players aren't even aware of just how much bad the empire is up to.
You will note that Chelaxian PCs tend not to be in Cheliax - they are out exploring for the Pathfinders - perhaps the work for what their nation might be one day - waiting for a regime change, but patriotic for what has already been.
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If someone wants to read the long response I've saved it to a text file and would be happy to share it for the sake of intellectual discussion; there's just no point in expending energy on the discussion anymore.I would actually be curious as to why you don't think that your proposal would lead to cookie-cutter item choice and/or farming chronicles for items your build needs.
Changing access to restrict quantity and quality (as opposed to currently restricting just quality, via Fame value limits) will carve out the margins. It'll force players to choose if they want to buy that optimized suite of inexpensive lesser metamagic rods or if they want to hoard their gold for the Staff of the Master, or if they want both but choose to forego another large purchase like their +6 stat item. That'll depend on what their primary combat contribution is. It diversifies the number of optimal equipment suites; the current system makes that point moot, the optimized equipment suite contains all of the above. Characters who acquire the majority of their items through play are going to have to deal in what's available plus one or two items that they buy through PP. The list of what's available will vary from PC to PC based on play history. That will by necessity lead to different items for different PCs; otherwise, you would have a bunch of liquid wealth you can't spend and no PP.
I'm curious why you think the current system doesn't promote cookie-cutter builds? The Fame system delays when you can buy things, but not what you can buy once you get there. Its a much more equipment-friendly environment; I can have my cake and eat it too, as the expression goes, whether that's buying a suite of odd metamagic rods, a golf bag of Bane weapons to back up my primary weapon, or my Gloves of Dueling, Boots of Speed, and Bane Baldric to maximize my burst damage.
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But, Ryan, you just gave examples of very different equipment load-outs for similar PCs.
And, to be honest, during LG days, I spent more time frustrated that the equipmenbt available was so junky, and that the right equipment for my PC was only available on one, rare, AR.
You know how long my PC had to wait before he could get a Quiver of Ehlonna? I think he was 9th level before that one AR showed up. Not only was he sub-optimal before then, which is irritating, since the Quiver should be a fairly common item.
No, having even more limitations on item purchase than we have would be bad.
Remember, for a home campaign, it is expected that the GM adjust teh treasures found to things that are targeted toward his players' PCs, whereas, in OP, the treasures available are going to be cookie-cutter generic, or wind up with complaints. (See the Master's Braid and Owlbear discussions).
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Well to be fair that owlbear is mysteriously inferior to any other owlbear that has ever lived. :P ... I'd still totally use it though, 'cause uh... owlbear, even if it is really just a reskinned bear companion.
But yeah, we don't need more item limitations than we already have. Fame already stops you from getting holylcrapbroken items before you oughta have'em (with a few notable exceptions of items that are WAAAAYYYYY too inexpensive).
PS.) All my hatred at that damned quiver in LG.
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But, Ryan, you just gave examples of very different equipment load-outs for similar PCs.
Keep reading, though. If you stop after the first sentence in that paragraph, you'll miss this one:
It diversifies the number of optimal equipment suites; the current system makes that point moot, the optimized equipment suite contains all of the above.
Which should help clarify my point. Short version: currently you can buy all the loot. Under the Fame plus PP cost wish, you can only buy *some of* the loot plus what you pry from cold, dead Aspis fingers.
You know how long my PC had to wait before he could get a Quiver of Ehlonna? I think he was 9th level before that one AR showed up. Not only was he sub-optimal before then, which is irritating, since the Quiver should be a fairly common item.
All my hatred at that damned quiver in LG.
It is unfortunate you two had a bad experience in LG. However, that concern is moot; if the lack of one 2k item will break whatever it is you are playing, its readily available in PFS under the current rules *and* my dream scenario (I feel obligated to point out at this point in the post that at no time will my wish be a reality in PFS; the current system is here to stay. Now back to our regularly scheduled forum combat).
Fame already stops you from getting holylcrapbroken items before you oughta have'em (with a few notable exceptions of items that are WAAAAYYYYY too inexpensive).
This just isn't true. Fame is only an impediment through 3rd level, because at 4th level projected PC wealth (CRB p. 399) is the greater impediment to buying items. Fame simply permits everything you can afford under the WBL guidelines after that point. At 5.1, you have the fame for Gloves of Dueling, Boots of Speed, and +4 stat items (PC wealth: 10,500 gp). At 6.2 you can purchase items up to 31K (PC wealth ~21,000 adjusting for that .2). By 7.2 you can afford your +6 stat item (PC wealth: ~29,865 adjusting for the .2). There's even wiggle room in there to whiff a faction mission or two (or 3 per two levels) before Fame passes your buying power. Its just not a barrier to, well, anything. Its a mild inconvenience through the 1-5 scenarios, at which time you can safely forget about it unless you're Qadiran or play a lot (as in, greater than 1/3 of your levels worth) of modules.
