If you could change just one PFS rule - what would it be?


Pathfinder Society

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2/5

Ryan Blomquist wrote:

If I could change one PFS rule, I'd rewrite the way item access is handled in PFS. Just as now, the only items that would be always available would be the ones on the Always Available list. However, unlike now you would not be able to purchase any item for which you had sufficient Fame. All items not available through the always available list in the Guide would need to come from Chronicles.

If a PC wanted to purchase an item that was not available to them from either the always available list or on their Chronicles, they'd have to both have sufficient Fame to buy the item and also spend 1 PP for each 1,000 gp in the item's price, minimum of 1 PP for items costing less than 1,000 gp, representing going to their faction and calling in favors to be connected to someone who will craft/provide the magic item that the PC wants. This would also eliminate the 2 PP wand (for which my hate is well documented) and the 1 PP potion/scroll (which annoys me far less, but still shouldn't be), because both of those uses of PP would be subsumed by the new item purchasing rules.

The rule would have two benefits; curbing the absurd power level of PFS PCs relative to the CR system in PFS and increasing the value of Chronicles because suddenly, those boring/uninteresting +2 stat items that *everyone* can buy anyway under the real rules would suddenly become valuable! That should help put to bed the hand-wringing over the value of items on Chronicle sheets. Also, because you're not hoarding for perfectly optimized item purchases (knowing that you can get whatever you want all the time always) players wouldn't feel compelled to skip buying dumb, fluff purchases that are fun but unoptimal in the low to mid tiers of PFS, purchases that are normally reserved only for PCs on the far side of Eyes of the Ten and home game loot. That would be an absolutely awesome side effect, as well.

I like everything you're saying, but I have to wonder at the ramifications.

1. Would PCs remember BYO"CLW wands"?
2. Would lack of PP set a person too far back from the WBL needed to succeed (and earn PP)? Tied to...
3. Since NPC items are inferior, how much would we be set back in PP to maintain WBL?
Would we have to add more PP to adventures? Retroactively?

I, too, would like to see a change that nixed free wands/scrolls (I'm an offender here working toward a dozen), but made out-of-combat healing non-PC dependent (due to random parties & casters who want other spells) and made chronicle sheet items meaningful.

Is there a way to balance WBL/Chronicle Sheets/healing costs without ruining several seasons of scenarios or going too far below WBL?

Silver Crusade 4/5

The only real problem that I've seen at the table is the presence of a character who summons creatures all of the time. In smaller groups, it has not really been a problem but in larger groups (5 or 6 people), it becomes difficult to finish the scenarios in a timely fashion (our local game stores typically give us four to four and a half hours).

In addition, the actions of a slew of non-character creatures have too much of the spotlight. That negative impact on the other players has me wondering whether summoning should be outlawed or just curtailed in some fashion.

Andy

Sczarni 3/5

Jason Hanlon wrote:

VO alias is blocked but this is posted as my gnome sorcerer, Farkle Dimwitty Quadpicker Numnums the 15th. Read it in a high pitched voice.

Well said! If I had my way, everyone would have a respectable name! Like my forefathers.

Also, I would gather all the Pathfinders together once a month so that they could discuss matters of great import. I find it simply shocking how many people have failed to take an hour or three of their time to ponder the subject of Gnomish rights. Really, the current state of affairs is simply dreadful.

Yeah! Stupid talls imposing their lanky pred-juices on our kind. All talls should have surgery to put their feets on thier knees so they know what it is like when they make stairs and ladders!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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Jiggy wrote:
Make a "start at 2nd (3rd?) level" boon

Isn't this the 'GM Crypt of the Everflame/Godsmouth Heresy/Murder's Mark' chronicle? ;-)

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Jiggy wrote:
GM star replays are X/year instead of X/lifetime.

This is something that was in a previously released edition of the Season 5 guide, but was removed rather quickly to make this first year more of a trial.

Since its currently X/lifetime, if it changes down the road it will only open more replay. If they started it at X/year, and then decided to make it X/lifetime, there would be a lot of fallout. Hence the change.

So I'd bet that if the replay-playtest season goes well (which I'd say it has), I think the plan will be to make it X/year, resetting at GenCon each year.

That's what I assume/remember, at least.

The Exchange 4/5 Owner - D20 Hobbies

Paz wrote:
Isn't this the 'GM Crypt of the Everflame/Godsmouth Heresy/Murder's Mark' chronicle? ;-)

Well yea:

+1 XP and Wayfinder | #5-08 Confirmation
+1 XP | We Be Goblins
+3 XP | Crypt of the Everflame/Godsmouth Heresy/Murder's Mark
----
This puts you 1 away from 3rd but costs 17 hours.

Walter Sheppard wrote:
That's what I assume/remember, at least.

I hope so. But I am the kind to not use them if possible. So I'll probably lose them when they reset the first year.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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Don't forget Thornkeep (Accursed Halls). It's also Tier 1-2.

5/5 5/55/5

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A rating system for VO's in which low rated one's get their status revoked. Don't get me wrong most VO's are great, but a few are doozies and seem to hurt the community more then help it.

Silver Crusade

When magic missile is targeted on someone with mirror image it is an auto hit on the real person. I would rather the caster have the option to target one particular image (that might be the real caster) or spread them out among the images, eliminating each one hit.

Silver Crusade

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Also, I would like all the items on a chronicle sheet to be slightly cheaper than in the book. So even if you have the fame to buy it, it is still advantages to have it on a sheet.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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I think a 5% discount on Chronicle Sheet items wouldn't impact WBL all that much. Especially if you made it a once per item deal.

Would be easy to implement, too. Just update the Guide to say:

"All full-priced items listed on Chronicle Sheets may be purchased at a 5% discount. This discount cannot be combined with any other effects that would reduce the cost of an item. Once an item has been purchased in this way, cross it off the Chronicle Sheet."

Shadow Lodge 4/5

roysier wrote:
A rating system for VO's in which low rated one's get their status revoked.

We'd run out of VOs. (Due to reporting abuse.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

TOZ wrote:
roysier wrote:
A rating system for VO's in which low rated one's get their status revoked.
We'd run out of VOs. (Due to reporting abuse.)

Oh yeah.. definitely

Dark Archive 2/5

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Ironically, the VOs actually doing their jobs (enforcing rules and the like) would be the ones that lost their positions. More negligent VOs would, in all probability, keep their positions.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Items not allowed with the intention of being on a chronicle would be marked as such.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

I would remove the rule that restricts the kinds of mounts a Paladin can use. Thus allowing him much more useful choices beyond a horse of camel.

Dark Archive 2/5

I would like to see the cavalier get more choices, at least. That spinosaurus would synergize beautifully with the order of the sword.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
roysier wrote:
A rating system for VO's in which low rated one's get their status revoked.
We'd run out of VOs. (Due to reporting abuse.)

Do you mean reporting abuse or reporting abuse? Because the former is the whole point, while the latter would be a problem. Or was it the other way around?

Dark Archive 2/5

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
I want to be able to ride a pig.

Patrick, that would be a squealing of a good time!

---------------------------------

A lessening on the rules of PVP. Something along the line where if players intentionally are willing into enter into PVP with each other, they could.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

roysier wrote:
A rating system for VO's in which low rated one's get their status revoked. Don't get me wrong most VO's are great, but a few are doozies and seem to hurt the community more then help it.

There is a system, i.e. contacting Mike Brock. The fact that this is the system makes people think before they go to him.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Cohorts.

I'd certainly set some ground rules, make them a lower point buy with more restrictions than PCs have, and restrict them to 1 per table, but when you have a table of 4 or 5 I don't see that big of a deal to having cohorts.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Patrick Harris @ MU wrote:
I want to be able to ride a pig.

The first time I played We Be Goblins ...

A tiny bit of We Be Goblins spoiled here:
One of the players insisted on using speak with animals (or something of the sort) and ended up befriending and riding Squealy Nord.

2/5

James Risner wrote:

Well yea:

+1 XP and Wayfinder | #5-08 Confirmation
+1 XP | We Be Goblins
+3 XP | Crypt of the Everflame/Godsmouth Heresy/Murder's Mark
----
This puts you 1 away from 3rd but costs 17 hours.

True, but they'd be 17 really fun hours. ;)

For bonus points, I'd probably go:
+1 XP and Wayfinder | #5-08 Confirmation
+1 XP | We Be Goblins
+3 XP | Crypt of the Everflame
+3 XP | Murder's Mark
+3 XP | Godsmouth Heresy
+1 XP | (Play or GM a scenario here)

BAM. Enter the character build that's awesome at level 5 but would have died at levels 1-4.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Can you apply a level 1-2 module to a 3-4?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I thought something was off about that.

Dark Archive 2/5

... You know, I was just wondering that myself.

5/5 *****

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Hmm, I would need two rules changes. I would ban all paladins and the animation of the undead. It would have the added effect of halving all forum traffic.

3/5

andreww wrote:
Hmm, I would need two rules changes. I would ban all paladins and the animation of the undead. It would have the added effect of halving all forum traffic.

As funny as this is. There would be another topic that people argue about.

Dark Archive 2/5

andreww wrote:
Hmm, I would need two rules changes. I would ban all paladins and the animation of the undead. It would have the added effect of halving all forum traffic.

We'll just start building summoners and drop devils all over the battlefield instead.

2/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Can you apply a level 1-2 module to a 3-4?

Woops! I got confused. In the above post, Godsmouth Heresy is supposed to be Mask of the Living God. My bad. :)

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

while we need table uniformity - we need table fun uniformly more!

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

hmmm... I'd like to see the purchase rules changed so that low charisma characters (8 or less) paid 10% more for items they buy, anyone with a craft feat pays 25% less for an item of that type. This skirts the crafting rules nicely but gives wizards a discount if they opt for it.

Dark Archive 2/5

Why would you want to penalize low charisma characters like that? Seems pretty unfair if you ask me; just another way to give the shaft to min-maxers. Now the crafting thing, that I agree with. I would suggest that rather than 25% you're given a percentage discount equal to the number of ranks you have in it. Basing it off the modifier would be too absurd. You'd have a bunch of casters grabbing skill focus on craft wondrous items so they could have every magic item on Golarion. Taking that a step further, I could see the items needing to still be treated as full price for the purposes of determining whether or not you have sufficient fame to make the purchase.

5/5 5/55/55/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Stephen Ross wrote:
hmmm... I'd like to see the purchase rules changed so that low charisma characters (8 or less) paid 10% more for items they buy, anyone with a craft feat pays 25% less for an item of that type. This skirts the crafting rules nicely but gives wizards a discount if they opt for it.

"..did you just hand your velociraptor a shopping list?

"Eyup.

"... WHY?

"Didn't want to get nailed for the 10% ugly surcharge.

Dark Archive 2/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Stephen Ross wrote:
hmmm... I'd like to see the purchase rules changed so that low charisma characters (8 or less) paid 10% more for items they buy, anyone with a craft feat pays 25% less for an item of that type. This skirts the crafting rules nicely but gives wizards a discount if they opt for it.

"..did you just hand your velociraptor a shopping list?

"Eyup.

"... WHY?

"Didn't want to get nailed for the 10% ugly surcharge.

Hey, that velociraptor was best in show for six years running thank you very much!

The Exchange

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shafting min maxers is its own virtue

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

The Beard wrote:
just another way to give the shaft to min-maxers

This brought a tear to my eye I laughed so hard. I fail to see any "shafting" of min-maxers. In fact, they seem to thrive in PFS and their numbers are ever increasing.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wish the Day Job chart would be expanded to higher values. If a character wants to spend all his prestige on building a business, why should that pathway to success be capped when hardly anything else is capped?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

But then there would be no use for the "Prosperity" boon.

4/5

1) Spears as one-handed weapons through EWP or a trait. Opens up some historical build flavor without having to just be a phalanx fighter.

2) Katana as a finesse-able weapon and 1d10 instead of 1d8.

3) Arm wrestling over initiative ties.

Edit: or dance offs depending on the crowd.

2/5

Cfoot wrote:
2) Katana as a finesse-able weapon and 1d10 instead of 1d8.

This is why my ninja uses an Elven curve blade. He calls it a real man's katana.

4/5

Nefreet wrote:
But then there would be no use for the "Prosperity" boon.

I've never seen said boon, but why should this require a boon?


Jason Hanlon wrote:
I'd allow the Words of Power subsystem.

Me too.


Jason Hanlon wrote:
Cfoot wrote:
2) Katana as a finesse-able weapon and 1d10 instead of 1d8.
This is why my ninja uses an Elven curve blade. He calls it a real man's katana.

As an asian, I find the whole "katanas are just better" trope endlessly amusing.

Then again, out of all of my numerous characters over the years, maybe 3 used swords of any kind, and only one used any sort of one handed blade. And she largely stopped melee after the first few levels to focus on casting.

-j

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Mimo Tomblebur wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
But then there would be no use for the "Prosperity" boon.
I've never seen said boon, but why should this require a boon?

Why do you need boons at all?

To make it something rare and special.

5/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Castilliano wrote:

I like everything you're saying, but I have to wonder at the ramifications.

1. Would PCs remember BYO"CLW wands"?
2. Would lack of PP set a person too far back from the WBL needed to succeed (and earn PP)? Tied to...
3. Since NPC items are inferior, how much would we be set back in PP to maintain WBL?
Would we have to add more PP to adventures? Retroactively?
I, too, would like to see a change that nixed free wands/scrolls (I'm an offender here working toward a dozen), but made out-of-combat healing non-PC dependent (due to random parties & casters who want other spells) and made chronicle sheet items meaningful.

Is there a way to balance WBL/Chronicle Sheets/healing costs without ruining several seasons of scenarios or going too far below WBL?

Sorry it took so long to reply, those stinkin' holidays (and a discussion of shafting min-maxers) got in the way. I really did want to reply to this, 'cause this is one of my pet ideas for Organized Play (got one other banked for the next time I see a topic like this).

1) No, but I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing with the prevalence of healing among all casting classes now. I would hope that healing would become the province of spell slots and channel, not wands. Those players lucky enough to own wands would then enjoy some cheaper healing and be the caster's new best friend, just like they were in 3.5e Organized Play.

2) Lord no. They're too ridiculously powerful already. I've retired three PCs at this point (EK, summoner, and fighter/alchemist). None of them spent significant PP during their careers on anything other than NPC spellcasting. The only PC I've got who has spent significant PP during their 1-12 career is the one who is spending it on the Expedition Manager boon. I spend a little bit early on items (wand of [preferred healing spell], cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone), then it all just ends up banked unless I find a really good roleplaying reason to pick up a vanity. I want to push those PP out of the bank and back into the PP economy while simultaneously pulling some gold pieces out of it.

3) NPC items aren't inferior to their non-NPC equivalent; a +2 headband is a +2 headband whether it was made just for you or you plucked it off that dead conjuror across the room full of black tentacles and purple fog. The whole idea is to remove PCs who have a belt of physical perfection +2, boots of speed, gloves of dueling, and a small solar system (that's one of my PCs, and he's part of the problem). The equipment PCs have in PFS is just too close to perfect for their builds. That is, in my opinion, problematic. The PCs become further out of sync with the CR system that is used to create appropriate challenges for them; forcing them to not have the ideal gear for what they do does weaken the PCs, but it will weaken them to a point that more accurately reflects the challenges they're being asked to face by the game mechanics.

There would be some challenges for PCs who played primarily Season 1 material (Season 0 was remarkably decent for items). However, I don't believe the number of available PP would need to change to pull this off. The bigger barrier would be adjusting to the new rules. It's really a pipe dream for whatever replaces PFS in Pathfinder 2nd Edition (whenever that comes), not a realistic deal, but I have fun coming up with stuff like this and the thread was appropriate to it.

Dark Archive 2/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
The Beard wrote:
just another way to give the shaft to min-maxers
This brought a tear to my eye I laughed so hard. I fail to see any "shafting" of min-maxers. In fact, they seem to thrive in PFS and their numbers are ever increasing.

I'm inclined to agree with you. It was merely an observation that someone was wanting a way to shaft people with a negative CHA. :P Us shameless min-maxers and optimizers find PFS to be greatly nourishing.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

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Majuba wrote:
I'd reinstate the faction missions for seasons #0-4. They did a lot of work (and pretty well too) on the secondary success conditions, but I still ask for my missions and it's sad that they don't count for anything.

I don't miss the faction missions. They often seemed to come down to 1 d20 roll. "Oops, you got a 2. No prestige point for you!"

Sczarni 1/5

Jayson MF Kip wrote:
I would ban the name "Bob." Any character/companion/eidolon/mount/familiar named "Bob" would be excised from the Society unless they get an atonement and an official name change.

I hope you ain't gonna kick Bubba out. "Bubba" kinda sounds like "Bob".

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