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As has always been the case with D&D (all versions), the core of the problem is the dependence on the d20 die itself.
At low levels, the 1-20 you add onto your rolls is too important. Bonuses are so small that all that really matters is what you roll on the d20. A 1st level fighter with an 18 strength is only hitting 25% more often than a wizard with a 10 strength.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, at high levels, the 1-20 you add to your roll becomes almost meaningless. A 20th level fighter rarely even needs to roll to hit the toughest monsters in the game (other than making sure he doesn't roll a natural 1).
This is probably the main reason I'm such a huge fan of E6.
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A simulacrum template would have worked just fine.You expect the writers to put in examples for every monster instead of just providing examples from which you are suppose to extrapolate from?
K. I for one am glad they didn't waste the space.
God that would have been nice! They could have even included that in the spell. But they chose not to touch the spell for the most part.
In 3.5 monster classes were a thing, so it was unquestioned that simulacrum creatures wouldn't have all their abilities. Arguments to the contrary were the height of munchkin-ing.
Uh, they were a thing in 3.0 (with Savage Species), but I don't know that they were ever updated to 3.5? I'd be really interested to know where, if they were.
And the 3.0 version was... odd.
Simulacrum
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: Touch
Effect: One duplicate creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. The duplicate appears to be exactly the same as the original, but there are differences: The simulacrum has only 51% to 60% (50%+1d10%) of the hit points, knowledge (including level, skills, and speech), and personality of the real creature. Creatures familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is.
At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. The simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If destroyed, it reverts to snow
and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least one day, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to the simulacrum.
Material Component: The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, etc.) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp.
XP Cost: 1,000 XP.
... and given that it was published in 2000 while the Savage Species was (I believe, anyway) published in 2003, that's three years before it became clear that efreeti had levels of any sort, meaning the retcon could have made things really odd in certain games (as they did in ours, ah, youngin's scrambling to go with RAW and still maintain internal cohesiveness).
Besides, I think Solars (who were still undefined as of Savage Species) were the go-to wish-granters in that time, though I'm unsure of that.
And Wishes were far, far more powerful in 3.0 and even moreso in 3.5 - capable of creating magic items (with no apparent limit in 3.5, unlike in the original 3rd which capped out at 15,000 gold).
But anyway. I'd be fine with a Simulacrum template (could be neat, actually), though I don't particularly like the idea of an Awaken template - while simulacrum creates a consistent creature-like thing (similar to Animate Object), Awaken simply grants sentience to animals or trees.
While a polymorph template would be great, too, it'd be frustrating to lose even more power from Polymorph Any Object.
Read the Awaken spell. Creatures gain HD, an Int score, a Cha bonus, a new alignment. Technically, they become magical beasts, but still use the Animal advancement tables.
==Aelryinth
Read the Awaken spell. Creatures gain HD, an Int score, a Cha bonus, a new alignment. Technically, they become magical beasts, but still use the Animal advancement tables.
==Aelryinth
Do you mean me? Because I've read it quite a bit.
Animals already have INT scores, just not sentience. Similarly, the spell adds to their CHA. And yes, they become magical beasts.
Trees gain INT, WIS, and CHA and utilize the Animate Object creature as a rough and handy template. I could actually see something like that for Simulacrum as well. They become plant creatures.
That's what I mean though: that's enough of a template for me, I don't need (or want) anything beyond that (though it would be nice for awakened creatures to potentially get positive charisma modifiers). :)
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Again, my point above is that the GM feels the need to "defeat" players by making that ruling.I have no idea how that ruling can be considered "defeating" players. Much like how I wouldn't say a GM who refuses the fighters request from infinite XP from pouring hot water down an ant-hills is being adversarial. She is merely enforcing the rules. And the rules enforce fair play.
Did... did you read anything beyond that line? At all?
Perhaps my wording is offensive - if so, I'll apologize, as that's not my intent. I roll natural 1s on these diplomacy checks 'round here all the time. It's probably because I write so much.
But one way or the other, making that ruling is a sign that the GM doesn't trust the player with that kind of power. Which, in some groups, is the better way of taking it.
I really hope that helps.
This rise the question of why the efreet are not doing this without the intervention of a high level wizard in the fist polace.
They have plane shift at will, so they do not need to wait, they can just travel and ask for a deal to whatever intelligent being they found, like a fire elemental.
If it is so simple for them, then is reasonable to asume that every efreet out there already have a +5 inherent bonust to all his stats and have no reason to do this deal with the wizard.
That's actually a very interesting (and good!) question, and one that's been raised in numerous other places. In Paizo's printed Golarion (as of 3.5), the question is answered in a two-fold measure, both in Legacy of Fire:
a) because too many wishes break down reality (and then you get angry things coming at you)
b) because there's apparently a super-sultan of efreeti that already did this once (he might have been the first, but he was definitely the last) and made it so that no one could ever take that title away from him
Also in Legacy of Fire, there is a Genie does something similar this anyway, and it causes lots of problems for himself.
That said, the actual answer to this conundrum is not found in the rules - if the monsters had inherent bonuses, it would usually be pointed out (as they usually are in most - but not all - other monster stats), and thus does require GM interpretation for campaign-world building (though not for game-rules).
Though even if somehow the efreet had presumed inherent bonuses anyway, there are plenty of decent things that can be done for them with wish.
I'm not sure why they can't grant each other's wishes as is, but I don't have their entry in front of me.
Anyway, how can we rule out that every efreeti has already done this for all their stats?
It says that they can only grant non-genies wishes.
"spellcasting capability and other powers." So that means CL and only CL to you. K.
Personally I think "spellcasting capability and other powers" means spellcasting capability and other powers, which to me CL is only a part of.
Also I think "a similar process to building a monster from scratch" means that you do more than adjust some numbers.
Notice that it says "spellcasting", not "spell-like abilities" which, it has been noted, are different from casting spells (and do not count for the purposes of metamagic feats, though they do count for entry into prestige classes).
Again, your interpretation isn't wrong, but in my experience - actual in-game experience - it doesn't break the game or the math in the way you seem to think it does.
EDIT:
...
Uh, why did this just post just now?
WHY CAN I EDIT THIS?
.....ooooooooooooooooooodd.
Read the Awaken spell. Creatures gain HD, an Int score, a Cha bonus, a new alignment. Technically, they become magical beasts, but still use the Animal advancement tables.
==Aelryinth
I would probably just use the animal companion tables for progressing HD.
Anything beyond that for sanity sake would just be normal bonuses from HD. +2 Isn't all that crazy.
Although here is a something potentially broken. There are large sections that talk about awakening animal companions. The way they talk about it seems to assume that the AC keeps their bonuses from when they were an AC.
Potentially a Druid who diplomancers enough before the spell could have a large army of former ACs who were awakened depending on how the GM roleplayed each awaken animal.
Of course diplomancery is not something I have a good rules argument against for high level game play. Oh no you can only make indifferent creatures helpful! Your GM has to have an interesting idea of helpful for that not to be a significant advantage.
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I love Tacticslion's posts. :)
Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?
I love Tacticslion's posts. :)
Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?
Thanks, brother! Right back at you! :)
Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?
Hmmmm now that is a good point. My only issue is high level BBEGs don't seem to be doing the same thing. I find it odd if the PCs are doing something so obviously good yet the NPCs just figure they won't do that.
I tend to houserule that efreeti don't actually have that power. it's grossly overpowered for their CR. Obviously, any efreeti would keep a pet non-genie around to just wish stuff for them, so it doesn't make any sense.
Actually, it really doesn't make sense in the first place. The whole reason Aladdin could get the djinn of the ring and the lamp to grant his wishes is because they actually had the magic power to do those things.
Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?Hmmmm now that is a good point. My only issue is high level BBEGs don't seem to be doing the same thing. I find it odd if the PCs are doing something so obviously good yet the NPCs just figure they won't do that.
I never figure any such thing. In fact I expect a lot of adventures are hired by genies to investigate the missing genies and what better reward for such service then wishes? Everything works out in the end.
Marthkus, when you Awaken an Animal Companion, it immediately ceases to become an AC, just as if you dismissed it. It becomes a free-willed animal with the benefits of the Awaken spell.
So, no, they don't get to keep the Animal Companion benefits. Those are derived from your class, not a power of its own.
The difference being they can now take character class levels, although I don't think that makes up for not being able to go size L.
You could probably house-rule it otherwise, but you'd have to change the animal's 'starting level' to compensate. Being size L is a major buff.
==Aelryinth
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Marthkus, when you Awaken an Animal Companion, it immediately ceases to become an AC, just as if you dismissed it. It becomes a free-willed animal with the benefits of the Awaken spell.
So, no, they don't get to keep the Animal Companion benefits. Those are derived from your class, not a power of its own.
The difference being they can now take character class levels, although I don't think that makes up for not being able to go size L.
You could probably house-rule it otherwise, but you'd have to change the animal's 'starting level' to compensate. Being size L is a major buff.
==Aelryinth
Do ACs lose their benefits after being dismissed? I don't remember reading that anywhere.
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Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?Hmmmm now that is a good point. My only issue is high level BBEGs don't seem to be doing the same thing. I find it odd if the PCs are doing something so obviously good yet the NPCs just figure they won't do that.
Who said the BBEGs don't? I know I've had NPCs that have inherent modifiers if they have access to means of obtaining wishes. I already linked to Tels showing a Paizo-published Golarion-based adventure module that the BBEG who had a djinn minion had inherent modifiers to all of her stats.
So, no, they don't get to keep the Animal Companion benefits. Those are derived from your class, not a power of its own.
I'm not quite so sure.
Unlike normal animals of its kind, an animal companion's Hit Dice, abilities, skills, and feats advance as the druid advances in level. If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.
So, the animal advances in a different manner, but it does advance. It sounds like you just end up with a unique animal. There is nothing to suggest this advancement is spell-like or temporary.
Also, I for one think it's freaking awesome that you can planar bind efreeti without breaking the high level game. What's the point in having really cool options like planar binding magical outsiders to do your bidding if the GM is just going to give you the finger every time you try?Hmmmm now that is a good point. My only issue is high level BBEGs don't seem to be doing the same thing. I find it odd if the PCs are doing something so obviously good yet the NPCs just figure they won't do that.Who said the BBEGs don't? I know I've had NPCs that have inherent modifiers if they have access to means of obtaining wishes. I already linked to Tels showing a Paizo-published Golarion-based adventure module that the BBEG who had a djinn minion had inherent modifiers to all of her stats.
But shouldn't like every wealthy NPC in Golarion have a +5 inherent bonus to all stats?
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But shouldn't like every wealthy NPC in Golarion have a +5 inherent bonus to all stats?
What? Spend money on self-improvement? *monocle*
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But shouldn't like every wealthy NPC in Golarion have a +5 inherent bonus to all stats?
It's likely that the super rich may indeed have their inherent modifiers. It makes them about 10-15% more likely to succeed at things based on those statistics.
Assuming they are locating and commissioning the spells from NPC casters, the base cost to call a pair of Djinn (the minimum needed to acquire a +5 inherent modifier to an ability score) would be:
CL 11th Magic Circle spell = 330 gp
CL 11th Dimensional Anchor (part of the Circle) = 440 gp
CL 11th Planar Binding Spell = 660 gp
For two of them = 2,660 gp base.
For each ability score = 15,960 gp.
This is the minimum that you will need to pay, not counting any repeat castings if the djinn doesn't like you and you have to find another Djinn (fortunately most rich aristocrats will likely have decent Diplomacy scores). If you want to offer the djinn the same +5 inherent modifiers to sweeten the deal for each djinn, you'll actually need to summon a lot more but Diplomacy and such may be helpful.
Besides the base expenses, you have to deal with these bits:
Furthermore, if a spell has dangerous consequences, the spellcaster will certainly require proof that you can and will pay for dealing with any such consequences (that is, assuming that the spellcaster even agrees to cast such a spell, which isn't certain). In the case of spells that transport the caster and characters over a distance, you will likely have to pay for two castings of the spell, even if you aren't returning with the caster.
In addition, not every town or village has a spellcaster of sufficient level to cast any spell. In general, you must travel to a small town (or larger settlement) to be reasonably assured of finding a spellcaster capable of casting 1st-level spells, a large town for 2nd-level spells, a small city for 3rd- or 4th-level spells, a large city for 5th- or 6th-level spells, and a metropolis for 7th- or 8th-level spells. Even a metropolis isn't guaranteed to have a local spellcaster able to cast 9th-level spells.
So we need a large city or metropolis, and you need to be able to make the caster feel like it's worth it to preform a binding (which carries greater risks than just waggling your finger to cast permanency or something). He may also charge you for the wishes that you're getting as part of his service (this would probably be a pretty fair starting point for additional expenses that the caster may require for the nature of this service, which would be about 990 gp / wish if pricing based on the efreeti's CL, or 1,530 / wish if priced based on the level the caster would need to be to cast it him/herself).
These little things are the reasons I doubt literally every rich person is stacked with enhancement bonuses. Even counting the minimum for just the spellcasting services and friendly Djinn, we're looking at around 15,000+ gp in spellcasting services. That's a pretty solid amount of coin. Most nobles aren't going to have that kind of coin laying about after they have covered their usual expenses (noble monthly currency can be estimated at population * 5 gp, assuming 1/2 the 10 gp monthly expenses for common lifestyles are taxes; then you take that amount and divide it out for their expenses such as paying guards, military, their estate, and expenses of rulership like maintaining roads and such).
If the caster does do something like demand an additional fee of 990-1,530 gp per wish as a special charge for the nature of the request, then you might be getting into some pretty serious cash, such as 35,640-55,080 gp in additional fees.
It's do-able to be sure, but you'd be better off doing it with a friend who's going to cut you a deal. Such as your party's wizard or sorcerer. Or major NPCs that have major spellcasting NPCs as allies or retainers.
At the end of the day however, it's just +2.5 to your modifiers, so even if every high level NPC did so, it's not going to make much of a difference, since NPCs can't keep up with PC power due to their very limited WBL. So if you're curious as to if your NPC would have such things, just look at it on a case by case basis, and decide what is right for your campaign.
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To further give illustration, in my campaigns if you're dealing with high level NPCs like wizards and such, you can probably bet money that they've spent time binding their own outsiders to get some help. Their lairs will likely be lit with continual flames (lantern archons), they'll likely have some inherent modifiers to their stats, and they may have a few bound outsiders guarding their lairs. Their humanoid champions (such as their high level barbarian or warrior bodyguard) may have similar effects on them, or permanent-spells active on them.
If you're dealing with high level monsters without ready access to wizardly spellcasting, probably not.
A lot of it comes down to circumstances. Kind of like armored animals. You won't find tigers wearing barding in the wild, but you might find them wearing barding if they're the trained guard-animals of a powerful warlord.
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If I were a ruler, i'd rather have a circlet that grants me a bonus to Charisma and immunity to poison than spending tends to hundreds of thousands of gps on inherent bonuses. Still, if you were the leader of an empire of almost endless wealth, or if you are a mad sorcerer-king who aspired to divinity, I think such bonuses are not only likely, but entirely suited to high fantasy.
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With access to magic interpreted as loosely as to allow chain binding etc, anyone who has some basic wealth can have infinite wealth pretty soon, through blood money fabricate etc.
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If I were a ruler, i'd rather have a circlet that grants me a bonus to Charisma and immunity to poison than spending tends to hundreds of thousands of gps on inherent bonuses. Still, if you were the leader of an empire of almost endless wealth, or if you are a mad sorcerer-king who aspired to divinity, I think such bonuses are not only likely, but entirely suited to high fantasy.
Yeah, a Circlet of Persuasion is only 4,500 gp and is NEARLY the equivalent of a +6 stat bonus item for Charisma since it provides a +3 to all Charisma-based checks. That's skills, Concentration checks (for bards, sorcerers, and paladins), and checks to coerce and force actions through magic (such as charm person or planar binding).
The simple fact of the matter is that there is more valuable effects that can be gained for the same effort. This is part of the reason that inherent modifiers are only practical to acquire either through having your party spellcaster arrange it or questing for them. Purchasing a Tome is kind of a joke (you're not going to find one for sale in the core game unless you are just crazy lucky) and they're grossly overpriced anyway, because they use wish and it's amazingly expensive material component as a pricing point.
But the joke there is, an inherent modifier is not worth wish. I'm not even sure that wish is worth 25,000 gp (but that's just the standard conversion of XP costs to GP costs from d20; though 5,000 XP for casting wish was a lesser expense in 3.x due to the way XP gain worked). However, wish's true power comes in the ability to use it on the fly. Dumping 25,000 gp during an adventure could be worthwhile because it allows you to select the exact thing you need right now (cast a spell you didn't prepare, force a re-roll of a die, rewind a round, etc, etc, etc). Wish is far less impressive as a down-time spell. Nine out of ten times, I'd rather cast limited wish instead of wish even when adventuring.
It's almost like wish was intended to be obtained through other means. Not saying it was, but I mean the spell got nerfed into the ground compared to its 3.x counterpart, and you can find quite a few outsiders and such capable of casting it for you.
Even without such methods, you can still copy wish. You just need to be able to cast astral projection and a pair of ring of three wishes (costs 60,000 gp to create). Just wear them, cast astral projection which produces copies of all your equipment (the copies - but not their effects - vanish when you return to leave the astral plane). You then make your wishes for your inherent modifiers, return to your body, repeat.
Some way or another, suckers are going to get their inherent modifiers unless you want to start re-writing everything and house ruling all over the place. But doing so is doing a lot of unnecessary work because the game is more balanced allowing PCs their inherent modifiers, not less.
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With access to magic interpreted as loosely as to allow chain binding etc, anyone who has some basic wealth can have infinite wealth pretty soon, through blood money fabricate etc.
Yeah, blood-money fabricate is hilariously abusive. Though in all honesty, you can do some really amazing things with Eschew Materials and Fabricate.
99 days worth of firewood is 1,980 lbs. of wood. You can fabricate some really amazing things out of that much wood. :P
So, no, they don't get to keep the Animal Companion benefits. Those are derived from your class, not a power of its own.
I'm not quite so sure.
So, the animal advances in a different manner, but it does advance. It sounds like you just end up with a unique animal. There is nothing to suggest this advancement is spell-like or temporary.
Unlike normal animals of its kind, an animal companion's Hit Dice, abilities, skills, and feats advance as the druid advances in level. If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.
Bolded the relevant parts.
You are no longer an animal companion.You no longer have a druid.
What exactly are the benefits a non-AC animal gets from a druid?
None.
The bonuses to the AC are a DRUID-etc, class benefit. They are not a benefit from the animal. If it's not an AC, it doesn't get the benefit, the current AC does.
You let your current animal go to get a new one, it goes back to being a normal animal, or an AC with a Druid level of 0, if you need to look at it that way.
All the benefits an AC get come from being sworn to the druid-etc. Without them, it's just an animal.
==Aelryinth
The cost to make a Ring of 3 wishes is actually 97,500. Remember the 25k cost per Wish is not halved, it's fixed.
==Aelryinth
The cost to make a Ring of 3 wishes is actually 97,500. Remember the 25k cost per Wish is not halved, it's fixed.
==Aelryinth
Ah yeah, good catch. Even still, it's pretty cheap when the whole party throws in to get some. It'd be an investment of about 60,000 gp per party member to buy them full price or 48,750 gp if created. That's like buying a pair of +5 resistance cloaks.
You don't even need the full 6 wishes. Just 5 wishes worth of the rings. Just takes a few days of casting astral projection after that.
I don't think that the math breaks down. The math works fine. What breaks down the math is when you change the assumed variables. Those are party size, party composition, stats, and wealth. You can play around with those and at low level the impact is small but at high level the impact has compounded and can exceed the scope of the game. This is when the math doesn't work.
You can play the game like this but it takes a lot tweaking on GM's part.
Bolded the relevant parts.
You are no longer an animal companion.
You no longer have a druid.
What exactly are the benefits a non-AC animal gets from a druid?
None.
The bonuses to the AC are a DRUID-etc, class benefit. They are not a benefit from the animal. If it's not an AC, it doesn't get the benefit, the current AC does.
You let your current animal go to get a new one, it goes back to being a normal animal, or an AC with a Druid level of 0, if you need to look at it that way.
All the benefits an AC get come from being sworn to the druid-etc. Without them, it's just an animal.==Aelryinth
Citation needed.
Bolded the relevant parts.
You are no longer an animal companion.
You no longer have a druid.
What exactly are the benefits a non-AC animal gets from a druid?
None.
The bonuses to the AC are a DRUID-etc, class benefit. They are not a benefit from the animal. If it's not an AC, it doesn't get the benefit, the current AC does.
You let your current animal go to get a new one, it goes back to being a normal animal, or an AC with a Druid level of 0, if you need to look at it that way.
All the benefits an AC get come from being sworn to the druid-etc. Without them, it's just an animal.==Aelryinth
Citation needed.
Normally I would lean on the side of "you can't have nice things" but sense this only comes up in the creation of NPCs, I'm seeing less of an issue here.
I've thought about it before with regards to skeletal animal companions, and I've decided it's definitely weird for animal companions to shrink if they lose their druid.
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With access to magic interpreted as loosely as to allow chain binding etc, anyone who has some basic wealth can have infinite wealth pretty soon, through blood money fabricate etc.Yeah, blood-money fabricate is hilariously abusive. Though in all honesty, you can do some really amazing things with Eschew Materials and Fabricate.
99 days worth of firewood is 1,980 lbs. of wood. You can fabricate some really amazing things out of that much wood. :P
Yeah, so why wouldn't everyone with access to ~800 gp have endless cash? Just buy:
Blood Money - 10gpFabricate - 450gp
A few lesser restorations for the Str damage - ~40gp
Each lesser restoration will give you 500-2000 gp's worth of blood money replenishment. Concievably, everyone past level 4 or so should have basically limitless cash if we follow that specific interpretation of the RAW.
So, no, they don't get to keep the Animal Companion benefits. Those are derived from your class, not a power of its own.
I'm not quite so sure.
So, the animal advances in a different manner, but it does advance. It sounds like you just end up with a unique animal. There is nothing to suggest this advancement is spell-like or temporary.
Unlike normal animals of its kind, an animal companion's Hit Dice, abilities, skills, and feats advance as the druid advances in level. If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.
Bolded the relevant parts.
You are no longer an animal companion.
You no longer have a druid.
What exactly are the benefits a non-AC animal gets from a druid?
None.
The bonuses to the AC are a DRUID-etc, class benefit. They are not a benefit from the animal. If it's not an AC, it doesn't get the benefit, the current AC does.
You let your current animal go to get a new one, it goes back to being a normal animal, or an AC with a Druid level of 0, if you need to look at it that way.
All the benefits an AC get come from being sworn to the druid-etc. Without them, it's just an animal.==Aelryinth
Nothing states the advancement is a limited-duration thing, a "permanent" thing that gets dispelled. It could just as well be an instantenous effect. If a mage dies, that doesn't mean their golems die and the people who have been killed by them suddenly starts to live.
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With access to magic interpreted as loosely as to allow chain binding etc, anyone who has some basic wealth can have infinite wealth pretty soon, through blood money fabricate etc.Yeah, blood-money fabricate is hilariously abusive. Though in all honesty, you can do some really amazing things with Eschew Materials and Fabricate.
99 days worth of firewood is 1,980 lbs. of wood. You can fabricate some really amazing things out of that much wood. :P
Yeah, so why wouldn't everyone with access to ~800 gp have endless cash? Just buy:
Blood Money - 10gp
Fabricate - 450gp
A few lesser restorations for the Str damage - ~40gpEach lesser restoration will give you 500-2000 gp's worth of blood money replenishment. Concievably, everyone past level 4 or so should have basically limitless cash if we follow that specific interpretation of the RAW.
Oh trust me. I agree Blood Money is cracked. It's like the tainted sorcerer and their ability to eat damage to ignore material components.
:P
Though of course, depending on how you interpret fabricate, it can also be ruled not to let you earn any money at all, with or without blood money.
In the most strict RAW sense, it's either that or Fabricate just doesn't work at all.
I'll admit some spells are just poorly defined. Paizo tried to make wall of iron less abuseable by saying you can't make stuff out of it, then shot themselves in the foot by saying it's still subject to all the normal natural laws concerning iron...which would include being worked. >_>
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I find it amusing that you think animal companions keep all of their buffs if they aren't animal companions anymore.
That means a druid could assemble a massive army of really buffed up animals simply by picking a new animal companion, giving it the buffs, and then dismissing the new uber animal in favor of a new one. Some Speak with Animals to keep things friendly, and you've got size L Eagles, wolves, foxes, lynxes and what-all all over the place.
I find the belief that your Animal COmpanion kept the buffs you were giving it after it leaves you pretty unusual.
And Animal Companions are class features, they are not created constructs, which are creatures in their own rights. Everything an ANimal Companion gets is a class feature of a druid. If it is not an AC, where is the ruling that former AC's still benefit from those class features?
By that same logic, familiars keep all the benefits if they get dismissed, too...and yet, in the very recent Winter AP, they made a note that a familiar with no witch rapidly loses everything special about it.
An Animal Companion being treated differently would be a great surprise.
And yes, if you die, your Animal COmpanion should lose its buffs. You're dead, there's nothing around providing the buffs to it.
===Aelryinth
Change the math.
1. Everyone has +1 bab and +1/2 level for saves.
2. Only the class that you chose at 1st level with good saves gives you a plus 2 bonus.
3. For every attack a character would normally have beyond the 1st with normal bab rules add +2 damage. Bonus stops at 20th level for epic games.
4.If the character bab would be equal to their level then the character receives +2 bonus to hit rolls etc... IF it equal to at least a rouge of their level then they receives a +1 bonus to hit rolls.
5. For every 6 caster levels increase DC of saves by +1
6. Touch attacks means you get a +2 bonus versus normal ac.
This works well with the games I run. Its lot easier since I run gestalt with a floating number of players.
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Change the math.
1. Everyone has +1 bab and +1/2 level for saves.
2. Only the class that you chose at 1st level with good saves gives you a plus 2 bonus.
3. For every attack a character would normally have beyond the 1st with normal bab rules add +2 damage. Bonus stops at 20th level for epic games.
4.If the character bab would be equal to their level then the character receives +2 bonus to hit rolls etc... IF it equal to at least a rouge of their level then they receives a +1 bonus to hit rolls.
5. For every 6 caster levels increase DC of saves by +1
6. Touch attacks means you get a +2 bonus versus normal ac.This works well with the games I run. Its lot easier since I run gestalt with a floating number of players.
Or you know, you can play 4th ed which is mechanically similar to this.
Change the math.
1. Everyone has +1 bab and +1/2 level for saves.
2. Only the class that you chose at 1st level with good saves gives you a plus 2 bonus.
3. For every attack a character would normally have beyond the 1st with normal bab rules add +2 damage. Bonus stops at 20th level for epic games.
4.If the character bab would be equal to their level then the character receives +2 bonus to hit rolls etc... IF it equal to at least a rouge of their level then they receives a +1 bonus to hit rolls.
5. For every 6 caster levels increase DC of saves by +1
6. Touch attacks means you get a +2 bonus versus normal ac.This works well with the games I run. Its lot easier since I run gestalt with a floating number of players.
Wouldn't adding 2 damage per attack add up pretty quickly though? Unless there's another change to hp or the way attacking works I' missing.
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I find it amusing that you think animal companions keep all of their buffs if they aren't animal companions anymore.
That means a druid could assemble a massive army of really buffed up animals simply by picking a new animal companion, giving it the buffs, and then dismissing the new uber animal in favor of a new one. Some Speak with Animals to keep things friendly, and you've got size L Eagles, wolves, foxes, lynxes and what-all all over the place.
First, I don't think that's a problem. Second, if it is a problem, a druid requires 24 uninterrupted hours per giant animal. Third, it's not an army; once they stop being your AC, they don't possess any special loyalty to you, although they are perhaps friendly. Fourth, the ability write-up really doesn't go into that much detail, so if you go nuts with it, the GM is going to have to figure a lot of things out that are not spelled out.
I find the belief that your Animal COmpanion kept the buffs you were giving it after it leaves you pretty unusual.And Animal Companions are class features, they are not created constructs, which are creatures in their own rights. Everything an ANimal Companion gets is a class feature of a druid. If it is not an AC, where is the ruling that former AC's still benefit from those class features?
Everything an animal companion gains is the result of a druid's class feature. I think it's unusual that a druid's animal friends would shrink and become less tough when the druid dismisses them.
In fact, there is nothing that explicitly says animal companions began life as normal animals at all. You may suppose that an animal companion turns back into a normal animal, but which one? Some of the animal companions don't even have a direct analog to an existing animal, like some with funky sizes. And does a Big Cat turn into a lion or a tiger?... what if the player specified it was a liger?
By that same logic, familiars keep all the benefits if they get dismissed, too...and yet, in the very recent Winter AP, they made a note that a familiar with no witch rapidly loses everything special about it.An Animal Companion being treated differently would be a great surprise.
Familiars are completely different. I assume they would be handled differently. I don't know what happens, exactly, to a masterless familiar, other than losing a lot of hit points, but it's not going to be the same as with an animal companion.
And yes, if you die, your Animal COmpanion should lose its buffs. You're dead, there's nothing around providing the buffs to it.
One big problem with your supposition is the idea that they animal companions are buffed. They are not. Those are their base statistics.
Count me as one of those "the animal is still loaded with hit dice" people. The animal companion is not a supernatural effect. It's not magic. It doesn't suddenly turn into sparky the mundane dog when in an antimagic field. It's a bizarre animal to be sure, but then it doesn't follow the normal rules for animals anyway. But there's nothing anywhere that says that the animal ceases to be what it is when it's no longer your animal companion.
I like to think of the Animal Companion benefiting from your link to the divine power of nature and when that link is severed, either from the Druid's death or dismissal, it returns to being a normal animal.
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I seem to recall something talking about a familiar or companion whose master had died and not yet reverted back to the animal it was before. Not sure where or if it was Pathfinder.
I do believe there has been at least one case of this in the printed works. The familiar, then masterless, actually became quite a menace to society. I believe it was an imp. The transformation from companion and/or familiar back to a normal example of the species is not instantaneous, evidently, and can in some cases take quite a long time.
I seem to recall something talking about a familiar or companion whose master had died and not yet reverted back to the animal it was before. Not sure where or if it was Pathfinder.
I like the idea of these awakened ACs being at the beginnings of the bestial races.
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in the Winter AP there's an ex-witch's familiar cat that has managed to retain its sentience only because it's possessed. The adventure even says that it will rapidly lose the rest of its abilities, and only kept them because it was in the Hut and possessed.
And no, there's mechanically very, very little difference between a familiar and an AC.
Both of them get buffed up as class features from their master. NOTHING they get is intrinsic to the creatures themselves. Without their masters, they are just animals. It doesn't matter if it's Ex, Su, or SP. Without the person granting the buff, it's just an animal.
And the idea that an animal can't revert after losing its master is way funnier then the idea it gets all these bonuses just for suddenly deciding to follow him around. If it can suddenly pop to size L for joining up, it can revert to size M when it leaves.
I'm afraid that I find the idea that it keeps the benefits permanently kind of funny. The table of benefits apply to animal companions. There's NOTHIGN in the rules that say they apply to non-Animal Companions...which is exactly what ex-Animal Companions are.
==Aelryinth
I seem to recall something talking about a familiar or companion whose master had died and not yet reverted back to the animal it was before. Not sure where or if it was Pathfinder.
But what animal would that be?
And the idea that an animal can't revert after losing its master is way funnier then the idea it gets all these bonuses just for suddenly deciding to follow him around. If it can suddenly pop to size L for joining up, it can revert to size M when it leaves.
I'm afraid that I find the idea that it keeps the benefits permanently kind of funny. The table of benefits apply to animal companions. There's NOTHIGN in the rules that say they apply to non-Animal Companions...which is exactly what ex-Animal Companions are.
You're assuming that an animal walks up to the druid and starts getting stronger and smarter. Where do animal companions come from, anyway? Maybe they are exceptional animals the druid encounters, and because of their relationship, the animal develops into more. Maybe they're spirits made flesh.
In any case, if you take away an animal companion's bonuses, you have left... nothing. Unlike a familiar, animal companions have no base creature.
uh, what?
Animal companions are animals. The adjustments are to the base creature. Saying there is no base creature is saying there's nothing to modify.
And while they may be 'summoned', they are all definitely non-magical and real.
==Aelryinth