If characters that specialize in fighting are dull, then why did the majority of Mass Effect players (according to Bioware research) choose Soldier over classes like Engineer, Biotic or Sentinel?Really? I played Soldier my first play through, but everyone after that I played another class and thought "Wow this is so much better now!". I know soldier was easier for first timers because simplicity but biotics ability to make people ragdoll was hilariously awesome. I forget which one I liked best, I think it was the biotic/combat or the tech/combat.
Edit: Keep in mind Mass Effect is an entirely different game with entirely different rules.
As the games went, my favorite class were engineer, sentinel, engineer
I find that it is easier to move the plot a long when you stand at the front of the party.
How does being a fighter help with standing at the front of the party?
Edit: what do you mean by "stand at the front of the party"? This isn't clear to me.
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The fighter's skill list is crap anyways. You really don't need more than 2+int to get what you want out of it.
I don't really think "the class list is crap" is a strong argument to not improve the fighter's skill progression... How about we bump him to 4 ranks per level and add in some logical class skills (Acrobatics, Bluff, Perception etc) as well?
I find that having a high strength score is about half of all mechanical out of combat actions.
You and I play very, very, very different games.
Figther lack of skill points and other calss features is jsut unjustifiable.The fighter's skill list is crap anyways.
That's the point most people are making. The fighter class needs a better skill list to start with.
I find that it is easier to move the plot a long when you stand at the front of the party.How does being a fighter help with standing at the front of the party?
Edit: what do you mean by "stand at the front of the party"? This isn't clear to me.
Oh just the whole class thing. But I am assuming you are talking about compared to other "front-line" classes.
Which as far as I am concerned is a choice of flavor, they all get the job done (unless you consider monk a front man, then no).
EDIT: Party marching order? Line-ups in dungeons?
Oh just the whole class thing
Edit: what do you mean by "stand at the front of the party"? This isn't clear to me.
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EDIT: Party marching order? Line-ups in dungeons?
How does marching order give you ways to move the plot along? Is most of your narrative influence whether to go down the left corridor or the right corridor?
I find that having a high strength score is about half of all mechanical out of combat actions.You and I play very, very, very different games.
And here I thought RotRL was a pretty standard game.
Five mages, each unlike the other, all using different tricks. Zero mages on whom just readying an action to follow them around would have been even marginally effective. Not even the sorcerer who was like APL-4 or so.
That is a tough nut to crack, sure. But what is a wizard or a cleric going to do in a single round to shut all that down? Assuming the enemy mage is camping, he's got a ready action for when the last wall of force goes down, which means it would be nice if the fighter also had a readied action for when that happens.
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Why did you find out-of-combat fighter more interesting to play than out-of-combat rogue?I find that it is easier to move the plot a long when you stand at the front of the party.
All being the rogue did is give me more mechanical ways to do things out of combat, which IMO are the least fun things you can do out of combat. (aside from some very situation cases)
wow... just wow.. this comment right here.
Ok guys, nothing further to see here...
the best caster in the game is the pistolero mysterious stranger (I jest)
But honestly, As a guy who plays Magus, Alchemist, or Druid... I think the full casters and the full martials are really friggin' boring anyways unless i pull some funky RAW stuff to make them fun.
And here I thought RotRL was a pretty standard game.I find that having a high strength score is about half of all mechanical out of combat actions.You and I play very, very, very different games.
Are you playing in or GMing RotRL?
I'd also quite like to see you answe Viviennes question. I don't really see how the matching order influences the plot pace in any meaningful way.
When you play a conjuration focused wizard with create pit type spells prepared and then you encounter a flying enemy.....good thing I'm an elf and I made scrolls of gravity bow.
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There are some good posts in here, but there is an awful lot of just rudeness as well, along with what looks like the optimization board throwing up on the thread.
What the class can do is part of what makes it interesting, but not the only thing. Waving math around and trying to prove that because X class does Y more damage it is more interesting misses the point in my opinion.
A character is interesting because of the parts that are harder to sit around and debate. The character part. I still hold that anything can be boring, and anything can be interesting. I've met utterly boring wizards and very interesting fighters. It wasn't because they could do a trillion damage a round, it was because of who they were and what they became.
I think the point got missed about nine pages back. TOZ's point on page one was pretty spot on, and perhaps Wraithstrike summed it up best with
Boring is subjective.
That won't stop the thread from discussing the boringness of the mechanics of the fighter and how Insert-Class-Here makes it all better. But that isn't answering the question. No, fighters are no more boring than anything else as a character to play. I leave you to your regularly scheduled slap fight.
I don't really understand why in this forum the arguments are always made on hyper specialised prestige class with a level in x cases on leevel 20 to prove a in this case very subjective point, if the fighter is boring to play.
I personally enjoy playing and building a fighter a lot and I can not say that I have heard people who play a fighter complain much.
Is the fighter simple? Yes. But I think that is the point. You go to your game you sit down and you know what to do. Plus you have the biggest equipment and feat flexibility of all classes. And you deal a significant amount of damage and can take some as well, making you a very viable frontline fighter.
And you can fricking do it all day long. No limits on spells, nor rage you are just constantly good. It's easy and it's fun.
Now why the fighter does not have perception as a class skill is beyond me, but then take a trait. Or skill focus.
There are several archetypes as well, that offer you even more options yet are still easy to understand.
And while most of the anti fighter people in this thread might have impeccable rules knowledge and perfectly sought out spell lists, fighters require less deep knowledge or preparation time.
I perfectly understand, that if your goal is to completely immerse yourself in your character and spend days preparing him\her, a fighter might not be the challenge you are looking for. But that does not make the fighter boring for everyone.
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What the class can do is part of what makes it interesting, but not the only thing. Waving math around and trying to prove that because X class does Y more damage it is more interesting misses the point in my opinion.
How dare people judge a class based on its content! We should instead judge all classes by the infinite probability and variable nature of imagination and houserules!
More seriously, you can't judge based on that. When someone says the fighter is mechanically boring it doesn't mean they can't use imagination or are refusing to. It doesn't miss your point because its talking about something else entirely. I can make a great character, doesn't make the fighter class less boring though.
Additionally, I haven't judged based on damage in this thread. Whether a class does massive damage doesn't weight in on that. Whether its fun to full attack every round and have little to no other option is another thing.
I don't really understand why in this forum the arguments are always made on hyper specialised prestige class with a level in x cases on leevel 20 to prove a in this case very subjective point, if the fighter is boring to play.
I personally enjoy playing and building a fighter a lot and I can not say that I have heard people who play a fighter complain much.
Is the fighter simple? Yes. But I think that is the point. You go to your game you sit down and you know what to do. Plus you have the biggest equipment and feat flexibility of all classes. And you deal a significant amount of damage and can take some as well, making you a very viable frontline fighter.
And you can fricking do it all day long. No limits on spells, nor rage you are just constantly good. It's easy and it's fun.
Now why the fighter does not have perception as a class skill is beyond me, but then take a trait. Or skill focus.
There are several archetypes as well, that offer you even more options yet are still easy to understand.
And while most of the anti fighter people in this thread might have impeccable rules knowledge and perfectly sought out spell lists, fighters require less deep knowledge or preparation time.
I perfectly understand, that if your goal is to completely immerse yourself in your character and spend days preparing him\her, a fighter might not be the challenge you are looking for. But that does not make the fighter boring for everyone.
This is a god point.
One of my favorite characters ever was a Fighter... Well, most of his levels were Fighter, anyway. And this was in 3.5!
IIRC his progression was as follows:
Rog1
F1
F2
Rog2
F3
F4
Rog3
XWM1
XWM2
Rog4
F5
F6
Rog5
And so on. Rogue levels were mostly for sneak attacks and skills, and the Exotic Weapon Master levels were for tricks with the spiked chain (which he specialized in as a tripster and sneak attacker).
He was a CN draconic human with Fang Dragon heritage.
He wouldn't work as well in PF. But he was a lot of fun.
