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After taking a crash course in Adventure Time (and hopelessly delaying my NaNoWriMo novel), I've got the itch to make a post-apocalyptic setting, and I'm thinking "what better place than Golarion after Earthfall?"
So I'm working on trying to flesh out Golarion's distant past to make it into a setting PCs can play in.
As the thread title suggests, one of the themes I want to explore in the setting is despair and hope, that while the greatest centers of culture and civilization in the world, the PC's homes, are trashed beyond repair and they're picking through the ashes just to survive, it's also a new beginning, a world washed clean of the decadence of Azlant and the corruption of Thassilon, and where new races and heroes will emerge.
There are a few things I'm trying to figure out in order to make this believable. First of all, I'm wondering how I should limit the weapons and armor the PCs have access to. From what I've seen, Azlant and Thassilon weren't Bronze Age civilizations, so iron and maybe even steel stuff should be available, but I'm not sure how to give it that really ancient feel.
In addition, I'm debating whether or not the mythic rules should be used. It makes sense, given that the Age of Darkness was when great figures like Old-Mage Jatembe and Aroden himself started to build their legacies, and if I have the game start right AT Earthfall, and having the PCs survive it is what gets it rolling, then that CERTAINLY would constitute a mythic ascension. Plus there'd be plenty of relics and stuff littering the lands. On the other hand, having such mythic powers would remove the survival element of a post-apocalyptic setting very quickly, as many of the mythic powers and stuff would make things like food, clean water, medicine, etc. unnecessary.
Any ideas? Suggestions? Criticisms or comments? Hit me!
After taking a crash course in Adventure Time (and hopelessly delaying my NaNoWriMo novel), I've got the itch to make a post-apocalyptic setting, and I'm thinking "what better place than Golarion after Earthfall?"
So I'm working on trying to flesh out Golarion's distant past to make it into a setting PCs can play in.
As the thread title suggests, one of the themes I want to explore in the setting is despair and hope, that while the greatest centers of culture and civilization in the world, the PC's homes, are trashed beyond repair and they're picking through the ashes just to survive, it's also a new beginning, a world washed clean of the decadence of Azlant and the corruption of Thassilon, and where new races and heroes will emerge.
There are a few things I'm trying to figure out in order to make this believable. First of all, I'm wondering how I should limit the weapons and armor the PCs have access to. From what I've seen, Azlant and Thassilon weren't Bronze Age civilizations, so iron and maybe even steel stuff should be available, but I'm not sure how to give it that really ancient feel.
In addition, I'm debating whether or not the mythic rules should be used. It makes sense, given that the Age of Darkness was when great figures like Old-Mage Jatembe and Aroden himself started to build their legacies, and if I have the game start right AT Earthfall, and having the PCs survive it is what gets it rolling, then that CERTAINLY would constitute a mythic ascension. Plus there'd be plenty of relics and stuff littering the lands. On the other hand, having such mythic powers would remove the survival element of a post-apocalyptic setting very quickly, as many of the mythic powers and stuff would make things like food, clean water, medicine, etc. unnecessary.
Any ideas? Suggestions? Criticisms or comments? Hit me!
Ooooo. Im diggin it.
Don't make mythic permanent. Fluff it so that the heroes have some degree of mythic power latent within them, but only have it come to life when they come in contact with other mythic stuff you want to throw at them. Eventually if you feel you want to take the campaign full mythic, feel free to make it permanent. But try it out in small bites firsts.
Survivalistic stuff becomes kinda sketchy if you have a 1st level Cleric in the party who can Create Water at will and heal. Food is a good point.
I think it would be particularly cool to start the moment before Earthfall happens, that way you can describe how things were, then how things drastically changed.
Remember! It was the Aboleths!
Whatcha mean "Remember! It was the Aboleths!"? I know that, but the average PC probably wouldn't be privy to that kind of information. Plus, given Earthfall wrecks the aboleths faces too, they'll probably not be making too much trouble.
Yeah, but they could be.....oh they could be...maybe the party is what keeps them from taking over the world in the future heh.
Admittedly I don't know much of Golarion history, but I can comment on post apocalyptic stuff. This is a great idea for rediscovering the lost greatness of the world.
If you start just after the apocalypse, you can kill off the most learned and wise out there so knowledge/science/magic can start at square one.
As Scavion noted 1st level clerics really mess with the hardships of an apocalyptic event, thus I'd suggest some separation from the divine planes to cut off or change divine magic. Also, the PC's could then discover why the gods are gone and re-establish divine magic to the standard rules. If you do this be sure to adjust for low to no healing magic. Life gets much more dangerous
Same thing with arcane magic, and its rediscovery.
Technologically if Azlant and Thassilon were steel age, I'd suggest making steel forging a "lost science". Steel would be available as equipment weapons and armor but getting them fixed/repaired would also be a chore, and acquiring new steel equipment very expensive. Not to mention you will likely be in a barter economy as coins would be mostly worthless,as food and water are more necessary than metal bits. "Newly" made versions of standard equipment could be made with inferior materials, bronze etc.
This type of setting is ripe for rewarding PC involvement. By discovering things, places, people, science, and magic they literally shape the world. Chaos also reigns, with a lot of survival of the fittest/subsistence level adventuring. Rising and falling of petty warlords. Little to no political environment, or politics of violence.
lastly, d20 Midnight is a nice apocalyptic setting that could give you many good ideas and rules for subsistence adventuring.
Interesting stuff, good gaming to you.
I would note that post-Earthfall would also probably exclude the dwarves from play, unless you waited a long time and did a "Dark Ages" thing.
I once had a weaponsmith who specialized in teaching the common folk how to defend themselves, he often made weapons and armor of inferior qualities in great quantities for the locals.
If you don't want to apocalypse the world, but still get that feeling try running the adventure The Slumbering Tsar by Frog God Games. It gives you that dystopian feel, but may be to much of a challenge to new players. It's levels 7-21, if you are interested I have a campaign blog/advice thread here, http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q8tx?The-Slumbering-Tsar-Starting-DM-Set-up
You could always do a Gods aren't granting spells because they are walking the earth thing. That might explain why some people have powers and others don't, but I would definitely let the players know beforehand. There would probably be some communities of people surrounding certain survivors of Thassilon, the Varissians. And a ton of ticked off giants who survived.
Edit: As to the gods, perhaps they are dealing with threats that are roaming, like an age of Titans kind of thing. I'd definitely brush up on my Clash of the Titans, look up things like Rovagug and Mar-Massif.
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I already know most races would be excluded:
Dwarves, because they're still underground and have only just started to get ready for the great Quest For Sky.
Orcs, and thus Half-Orcs, again because they're still underground, and the dwarves haven't driven them to the surface in said Quest for Sky.
Elves, and by extension Half-Elves, because most of them have fled via the Sovyrian Stone, leaving only the ones who will eventually become the various weird elven peoples like the snowcaster elves, drow, Mordant Spire guardians and the inhabitants of Jinjin.
Gnomes, because they haven't left the First World yet.
Really the only core races that would be playable would be humans and halflings.
If your player's like it, go for it! It's got that epic feel to it, humans bounce back like rats and there would definitely be tons of warring factions fighting over limited resources.
If post-apocalypic is what you are going for, you could always use a country after a bitter war. I think the Worldwound could qualify so Wrath of the Righteous works as well.
For more setting material you could reference, Second Darkness I think its Book 3.
You might also want to use Werewolf The Apocalypse as some reference material.
Surely if its the end times for Golarion, if you are moving ahead in the time line some of the gods are dead, if not most of them. All of their surviving servants would be running around trying to carve up parts of the world, save the faithful, destroy their enemies, or trying to fill the shoes of their predecessors.
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That's just it, though, it's NOT the end times for Golarion. It only SEEMS that way to the players, as their homes and homelands have been destroyed. There are a few gods that are dead, but there are still some Azlanti deities that survived, like Abadar, Shelyn, Zura and Nurgal, for example. Plus, Zon-Kuthon's out of prison now, and Sarenrae's about to accidentally create the Pit of Gormuz.
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First : This idea of yours about the setting/campaign is MAGNIFICENT. I am now jealous I did not thought of it before
Borrowed your post from the Ask JJ thread. i felt my answer was more in its place here ;-)
I've got a thread set up for getting the campaign setting rolling over in Suggestions. Feel free to drop a suggestion or anything if you feel like it :)
So...I know you probably won't say what Aroden was up to during the Age of Darkness, but how powerful WAS he at that time? I know he didn't ascend to godhood until lifting the Starstone up, which took place an age or two later, and you've indicated that he was already a pretty powerful mage when Earthfall happened, which is probably part of why he survived. I'm just not sure how much figures like him and Old-Mage Jatembe should factor in such a campaign, as in terms of history, they'd definitely overshadow the PCs.
I think you are missing a very important part of the potential of your setting : things do not have to conform to the official history that modern Golarion knows of.
History does remember Aroden and Old-Mage Jatembe, but that does not mean they were the only heroic/mythic characters of those ages. Only the ones whose story made it through the centuries.
Actually, it is an interesting and common twist to have the celebrities be in your campaign when they are still young and untested. They do not even need to already use the names under which they will be so well known ages later. In fact they just might be one of your PCs.
I believe that twisting things this way ensures that your setting will stay fresh for your players, even if they have the whole pathfinderwiki memorized. You could even decide that Golarion was then going by another name and NOT tell your players that this setting is Golarion past Earthfall. If they deduce it by themselves, they will be likely even more taken with it ;-)
Some more twists you can use :
- The gods do not use the modern names and their portfolio/domains might be different back then. Also there are other gods whose worship did not survive the centuries
- We know what the stories say of the Dwarves, Orcs, Elves not being there. But that is only what is remembered in modern days, based likely on those who did survive all these long centuries. The truth might have been a bit different.
You can include Elves, Orcs, Gnomes and Dwarves in your world. Maybe they are just part of tribes that died out and were forgotten. Or who were later incorporated in the main groups we know now and their specific history overshadowed by Big Things such as the Quest for the sky.
Do not feel that we is now known of this period are constraints. They are actually springboards for your creativity ;-)
Consider also that with the world in such turmoil/upheaval, the nature of magic itself might be different both from what it was before Earthfall AND from the state it settled in and that is taken as absolute today. (ie, no more Create Water as a 0-level spell).
In any case, I am VERY interested in both this setting and your campaign as I would love to use it for my own group ;-)
Thing is... After even such a big boom... There is a lot of stuff still standing. Many countries have survived. However... Nobody was prepared for howtough things were to become, and what is left starts to crumble and fall. Trade routes fail. Patrols fail. Wilderness grows. Monsters reach further inside the old borders every day. Refugees seek a home in the standing cities. Organizations find themselves targeted for plundering and spread out to preserve their lore, thereby abandoning their infrastructure. The economies crash and burn. There is starvation because the farms lie abandoned. Kingdoms try to deal with it, but are too slow to make hard decisions, or break up due to various coups, civil wars, separatism and so on. People lose hope, some abandon the idea of a future, instead wasting time on hiding away or building epitaphs for their civilizations. Various evil forces actively subvert what order does remain.
This process takes a good while. A decade, perhaps two. For a long while, then, survival forces people through the day. It is not until after this period that anyone has time to ponder rebuilding. By that time, those who knew of the old times were old and forgetting. A new generation finds it has no relation to a time of ancient wonders, yet they are endlessly fascinating. That is the place to begin.
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You raise a good point, Sissyl. Even for all the destruction Earthfall causes, there'd still be cities inland for whom the only real problem starting out is that the sun has dimmed, meaning leaner harvests for many years to come.
Perhaps setting it later would be a good idea, especially since it opens the opportunity for dwarf and half-orc (or full-blooded orc, if a player's so inclined) PCs...
I did a search on Earthfall, and there are entries for both one Starstone, and many. Depending on where one was on the planet, they may have seen the big Starstone, or the many that followed it, because they came down many leagues apart.
From what I remember of the history stuff.
You've got a thousand years of darkness, makes a great time for Vampires to start looking to make a kingdom. Plus high activity by any sunlight vulnerable races.
the Elves make a run for it except for a few in the north, a few in the south jungles and the ones who go underground. The Underground elves split up most keep going down eventually become Dark Elves, the others end up in Tian with a Mithril Tree.
about 90 years after the Boom, the Orcs hit the surface world like a mac truck. Big soft broken world that has never seen an Orc before just waiting for them. Could make for a great Campaign.
about 15 years later the Dwarves hit the surface and start building their new homeland. And killing Orcs.
With the destruction of Thassilon the Giants would suddenly be free, with Rune Giants trying desperately to hold things together.
No Gnomes in the world, they haven't fled the First World yet.
but what about some of the non-standard races
Ratkin make an excellent "surviving in the ruins" sort of race.
The Strix are another good one as you are in the time before Cheliax starts to wipe them out.
Goblins can survive anywhere
Hobgoblins might be using the strife of the time to start trying to build a military empire
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If you haven't looked at it already take a look at Obsidian Twilight by LPJ Designs.
It (and the revised version Obsidian Apocalypse which is coming soon) is kind of a Post-Apocalyptic Template that you can add to a setting.
has a lot of good stuff for setting up a ruined world covered in darkness also addresses some of the glitch points you might run into like Why aren't the Gods more active in Fixing things and what happened to all the High level NPCs and the good magic gear.
This is a great idea, and I agree that setting the campaign a few generations after Earthfall, once the deterioration of the society has really set in, is your best bet.
I'm running Serpent's Skull right now, and the lost city that is the center of the campaign was an Azlanti outpost city destroyed in Earthfall. It could be a handy resource from which to draw some ideas.
I have come across a few things to consider:
By RAW, Azlanti have superior ability scores.
The cyclopes were allies of the Azlanti, and it might be worth checking if they were still around in large numbers at this time.
The serpentfolk empire was broken long before Earthfall, but you could imagine that there were still pockets of their societies above ground.
Simply put, a lot of the monstrous races and legendary heros fought to the death during the great darkness. The Fen, from The Cleaves, could have brought down the Star Stone in their desperate battle with the cave people. Also ganked are most of the Elder Beasts. Each animal type had a titan that looked after their interests. Mostly the Terask and Bastet are the only survivors.
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For how to deal with the pre-earthfall mighty enchantments, spells and magic items (as well as magic users), remember that the Starstone caused the death of the Azlanti god of Magic. It is a great way to explain why most of the magic in Golarion, being of Azlanti origin, started to die out, go terribly wrong or change the way it worked. Which in turn would explain why arcane magic (and especially wizardry) was greatly mistrusted by the time of Old Mage Jatembe.
Unstable magic and a return to savagery. Check out my Savage Mage topic.
Alright, I'm likely not going to be adding too much - my mind is pretty full of different things right now to create much on this front - but I'm dotting for interest. A great idea.
Don't try to focus on the scarce food/water part. PF is not really set up to deal with such mundane problems in an interesting way past level 3.
Mythic characters can have mythic problems: Rampaging creatures of legend. Weird undead plagues etc.
I think the key theme of post-apocalyptic stories is rebuilding. Maybe once they gain their first mythic rank, they start accumulating the fragments of broken civilizations. At first, they have a small group they have to protect and provide for. Eventually it will grow to a thriving city and then a nation. An oasis among the wreckage.
Providing food and water for 4 Spec. Ops. guys in the forest: easy.
Providing food and water for a thousand women, children and elderly with no real farmland in sight: hard.
If you want their kingdom to live through the ages, and you want to use King-maker rules, I suggest you increase the timescale.
What about Kaer Maga
A dumping ground for Criminals, Failed Experiments and other nasty stuff that the Runelords didn't want to deal with but didn't want to kill. Vampires created for the sole purpose of being the wardens of this prison of the damned aided by the blind prophets known as the Caulborn feeding on the thoughts of the city's living inhabitants. The Caulborn saw the Earthfall coming and they didn't tell their masters. Instead they took their slaves and the Vampires and went deep underground to shelter against the coming disaster.
When the disaster hit some of the inhabitants escaped into the world, unleashing a plague of who knows what on the land.
and of course there are the Vampires.
Warned by the Caulborn about what was coming, how many of them do you think started thinking about empire building in a world with no sun.
Some organizations had their beginnings then. The Pathfinders were founded by the first to dig themselves out. Ex Libis are a group of humans, vampires, and even an Abolith, trying to preserve the facts so they can prevent the fall of civilization from happening again.
In a world where large-scale agriculture is out, so are large-scale cities. Most of the population would simpy have died of starvation over the first few generations. The mostly-abandoned cities and fields of unburied bones will go a long way to establish the post-apocalyptic feel.
Massive and unstable climate change will have occurred, making the world colder and darker. The wildernesses will be more empty and alpine plant species will thrive in the lowlands. Rivers will freeze and glaciers advance.
Roads will fall into disrepair and only a few isolated communities will preserve any learning at all. Nomadic peoples will become a significant threat to any surviving communities.
In order to give the players a feel for the fallen nature of society, start with economics. Coinage is useless and people are paid in salt and iron. Shopping for magic (and selling it) are now essentially impossible. Materials to craft their own are also almost impossible to find.
Adventures should revolve around survival at low level and recovery and preservation at higher levels. Maybe trying to safeguard knowledge against the distant day when civilization returns.
Setting up a time capsule for 10,000 years later could be fun.
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Some organizations had their beginnings then. The Pathfinders were founded by the first to dig themselves out. Ex Libis are a group of humans, vampires, and even an Abolith, trying to preserve the facts so they can prevent the fall of civilization from happening again.
What book does it have this information in? The wiki says they were founded in 4307 AR in Absalom, during the Age of Enthronement. That's millenia after when this campaign would take place.
Check out the Inner Sea World Guide (pp.33-37) for the canonical information. There's a rough timeline for a lot of these items.
The first item in the Age of Anguish is about the start of re-building, 1,000 years after Earthfall. That's when Post-Apocalyptic stuff happens; when the surveys of what was left behind begin. And both the Orcs and Dwarves have arrived on the surface by this point.
The Pathfinder Society is listed as being founded in Absolom in 4,307 AR.. about 400 years before before the current date, and 9,500 or so after Earthfall.
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So, by that point the sun has already re-emerged, right? That wasn't quite what I was going for. To utilize Adventure Time as an analogy, I'm going more for a "Simon and Marcy" feel than episodes that take place later when Ooo's civilizations have begun. That episode was really what triggered the brainstorm for this setting, actually.
Some organizations had their beginnings then. The Pathfinders were founded by the first to dig themselves out. Ex Libis are a group of humans, vampires, and even an Abolith, trying to preserve the facts so they can prevent the fall of civilization from happening again.What book does it have this information in? The wiki says they were founded in 4307 AR in Absalom, during the Age of Enthronement. That's millenia after when this campaign would take place.
Not officially founded, but their legends and belongings are preserved. In the fall of civilization, people band together behind ideas to keep from killing themselves. They are cults in your game.Organizations in everyone else's.
As an aside to the mechanical side:
If you want to give the classes an ancient feel utilize the 10 classes from the Advanced Class Guide playtest.
Eventually these "hybrid" classess will split into the ones we know today.
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For mythic goals, with a bunch of gods gone, the PCs can go about creating/helping a new god.
Or if you prefer, perhaps some domains are up for grabs and a paticular diety wants one of them.
Crown of Nethys, made of his bones, freakin Awesome!
Goth Guru, it might help matters if you made it a bit more clear when you were referencing existing Golarion lore and when you were making stuff up, especially if the stuff you're making up flat-out contradicts existing Golarion lore.
(I'm not saying don't contradict the lore, I'm just saying don't do so in a confusing way, please.)
I don't know how Nethys died, if he did.
My local game store won't stock the pathfinder game books.
Neither will B dalton. It would help if Pazio would send them special display artwork.