I've got a barbarian in a party that has 3 spell casters and a monk with some spell abilities (all 4th level). I'm pretty new to Pathfinder, last played 2nd Ed. D&D, so didn't realize how quickly the casters would take over the battles. I find my barbarian can't even close ranks before the casters have leveled half the enemy - last week it was 15 goblins, I got 1 hit in on 1.
My question is, what feats/skills/rage powers do you recommend taking in order to offset some of this imbalance, and get me into battle? Or tactics? The only think I've thought of is charging into the heart of the battle as fast as I can, where the casters can't use their area spells any more without taking me down, too. This seems less drastic than raging on my own casters when the barbarian is angry he didn't get enough slaughter.
You can't. You just can't. PF is designed for Casters Rule, Warriors Drool. Just do what you can and accept the fact that the rules want you to be inferior ... or change to a spellcaster yourself.
Tell your GM to start using something a bit more interesting and powerful than a group of 15 "CR Lol" enemies, for one.
You'll find you'll have a bit more luck when the casters can't one shot groups because they go down like a dirty analogy I'm too lazy to fully make.
I've got a barbarian in a party that has 3 spell casters and a monk with some spell abilities (all 4th level). I'm pretty new to Pathfinder, last played 2nd Ed. D&D, so didn't realize how quickly the casters would take over the battles. I find my barbarian can't even close ranks before the casters have leveled half the enemy - last week it was 15 goblins, I got 1 hit in on 1.
My question is, what feats/skills/rage powers do you recommend taking in order to offset some of this imbalance, and get me into battle? Or tactics? The only think I've thought of is charging into the heart of the battle as fast as I can, where the casters can't use their area spells any more without taking me down, too. This seems less drastic than raging on my own casters when the barbarian is angry he didn't get enough slaughter.
What level is your party? The GM's tactics may also be a factor.
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Don't worry, the casters are supposed to destroy the armies of mooks faster than you ever could. But as soon as something comes along with good saves and high HP, you're going to be the star of the show. Work with the casters to make sure you're not stymied by stuff like invisibility or flight.
How many sessions have you had? It could be the GM is going easy on you with mooks before he gets into the real beefy monsters. At which point, your casters will be crying for you to go in and deal some real damage.
And just you wait til the enemies with SR and spell immunity come around...
This is a relatively new campaign, with a very experienced but new DM for our group. So far our encounters have included (most recently) the goblins, a group of constructs that nearly took everyone down, and a bunch of heavily buffed kobolds. I think there's a range of difficulties there, but those of you who referred to fighting more high-level enemies are right - I had to save some bacon in the construct battle. With the kobolds, I did wade through them and get my blood lust sated. (I mean, my character's blood lust…)
I suspect this will balance out a bit over time, but I'm still realizing that there are things I'd better do now if I want my character to be able to get his licks in when we all get to higher levels. Here are a few of my thoughts:
* I took the Drunken Brute archetype, which took away my fast movement. Maybe a mistake. I also have chain mail, which cuts my speed to 20. I've got Beast Totem, Lesser, and if I take Beast Totem now, I'll get a +2 Natural Armor bonus. With that, I can go to just chain shirt, have the same AC (when raging) that I have now, and also get back 10'/rnd of movement.
* Take the Fleet feat a couple of times
* The party has a ring of jumping, but the monk has it. In character, I could get angry about not getting enough kills, and say I want the ring. Since I haven't claimed any other party treasure yet, it wouldn't be like I was overly greedy.
* My character's background makes him extremely touchy about perceived disloyalty. (He's also pretty quick to perceive things that way.) Twice already, he's attacked party members (nonlethal) on this ground. Maybe he goes after the next mage to cast an area spell that cuts into his kill.
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* My character's background makes him extremely touchy about perceived disloyalty. (He's also pretty quick to perceive things that way.) Twice already, he's attacked party members (nonlethal) on this ground. Maybe he goes after the next mage to cast an area spell that cuts into his kill.
Woah, calm down there, guy! Hurting your allies for killing your enemies would NOT go over well with any party I've ever played in. That's definitely not the way to earn friends, and might result in all of your blaster buddies "accidentally" catching you in their spells in the same round.
Getting the beast totem line is a fine idea, though, especially as Pounce will really keep you competitive at 10th level and up. If survivability is less important to you than mobility, then switching to a chain shirt is also good. There's probably better ways of increasing your land speed than Fleet, though... Try to get your mitts on a Quick Runner's Shirt or Boots of Speed, or buy one of the casters a Pearl of Power so they'll cast Longstrider on you. Or carry around a potion or two of Expeditious Retreat. Or take the Run feat and just spend one turn hightailing it wherever the heck you want - not a lot of places you can't get at 5x speed.
Woah, calm down there, guy! Hurting your allies for killing your enemies would NOT go over well with any party I've ever played in. That's definitely not the way to earn friends, and might result in all of your blaster buddies "accidentally" catching you in their spells in the same round.
Getting the beast totem line is a fine idea, though, especially as Pounce will really keep you competitive at 10th level and up. If survivability is less important to you than mobility, then switching to a chain shirt is also good. There's probably better ways of increasing your land speed than Fleet, though... Try to get your mitts on a Quick Runner's Shirt or Boots of Speed, or buy one of the casters a Pearl of Power so they'll cast Longstrider on you. Or carry around a potion or two of Expeditious Retreat. Or take the Run feat and just spend one turn hightailing it wherever the heck you want - not a lot of places you can't get at 5x speed.
Punching party members isn't my first choice, with a couple of exceptions.
The Run feat is good - I just re-read it, and hadn't noticed the fact it lets you keep your Dex modifier to AC when I read it last.
And before I punch the party, another option that occurred to me is a magic item that lets me cast silence on myself. Then party casters can't cast until I've got a 20' head start, and I have to ring for other situations, too.
I'll advise against any "solution" that includes making your allies less effective rather than boosting your own effectiveness. Not only it makes no sense from a in-game perspective, it's also really irritating for the other players and likely to start a rather serious player conflict.
At low levels, casters are actually rather limited. I'd guess the problem is probably the large number of mooks in that encounter. Focus on the big stuff and let the casters take care of the minions.
Grab Beast Totem and Supertition/Spell Sunder lines of Rage Power (and maybe Come and Ge Me later). Not to antagonize your friends, but to keep your character relevant.
If you're looking at one encounter a day, the casters can unload all of their best spells at once. That's the usual problem.
With multiple encounters and the possibility of wandering monsters, things change quite a lot.
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And before I punch the party, another option that occurred to me is a magic item that lets me cast silence on myself. Then party casters can't cast until I've got a 20' head start, and I have to ring for other situations, too.
You're really trying to get the party to hate you, huh? Trust me - as much as everyone hates the rogue that steals from the party because "it's what my character would do," the barbarian that Silences the casters would get it 100x worse. DO NOT SCREW WITH YOUR PARTY MEMBERS!
If you really, really believe that the casters are depriving you of all your fun, you need to either
a) talk to your GM about feeling useless and ask him/her to send you something a little more challenging, or
b) talk to the casters and see if you can get one or two of them to shift from "sending monsters to oblivion" to "making the barbarian into the monsters' worst nightmare."
I can't say it enough times: Do. Not. Screw. With. Your. Party. Members. You do NOT want to be "that guy." Anyone that pulled something like what you're talking about in one of my games would probably not get invited back to play again.
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You're really trying to get the party to hate you, huh? Trust me - as much as everyone hates the rogue that steals from the party because "it's what my character would do," the barbarian that Silences the casters would get it 100x worse. DO NOT SCREW WITH YOUR PARTY MEMBERS!
(...)
I can't say it enough times: Do. Not. Screw. With. Your. Party. Members. You do NOT want to be "that guy." Anyone that pulled something like what you're talking about in one of my games would probably not get invited back to play again.
I'm quoting this post because it's worth reading twice.
Maybe talk to them about buffing you? Level 5 will bring along quite a number of impressive buffs. Haste, heroism, displacement, etc can make you absolutely terrifying. Hopefully they can enjoy your rampage as well.
Instead of being adversarial (silencing them), try to think of solutions with them. Maybe ask them for advice.
OK, you've kind of talked me down from the adversarial stuff. We already have a party that tends to keep secrets, so while we don't have great cohesion in that sense, I admit punching or silencing won't improve things - though it would be in character. (It's also interesting, you made me realize that I've been thinking more like a DM than a player. Not surprising since I've DMed far more than I've been a player.)
I don't expect the casters will lean much towards a lot of buffing spells, partly for the above reason. For example, no one has even picked up the simple Enlarge spell to use. For that reason and just personal preference, I lean towards looking at what I can do with my character to make him viable on his own. If they get buffs, then that only helps things.
Given what you've all said, I'm leaning towards getting the Run Feat at 5th, then Beast Totem or Superstition (Rage Power) at 6th.
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Well, keeping secrets is one thing - it can definitely be interesting to be in a party where each character has his/her own agenda (though hopefully not conflicting ones). That doesn't mean you can't help each other out to work towards a common goal. Ask for Enlarge and whatever other buffs you can get. And I wouldn't take Superstition - normally it's great, but once your party gets access to Telekinetic Charge, Greater Heroism, Communal Resist Energy, etc., you'll regret it.
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Those casters pack a wallup, but they are limp-wristed feebs who go down easily. You have been struggling because of the TYPE of encounters, and because of the TACTICS the GM has been using. Versus powerful foes with lots of HP you will be the star. There's nothing wrong with your build or play.
Rather than get upset that the casters drop the mooks fast, adapt your tactics to your team. For example, if you know the casters are going to unload spells on a bunch of mooks, there's no reason for you to expose yourself to danger. Instead, ready an action to kill any mook who tries to approach the casters. The experienced Barbarian will hang back & protect his allies, only entering a blood rage when it's actually needed. There will be plenty of situations where your casters are weak and nigh unto helpless, and you will have to save the day. Make sure you do.
Also, you need to teach those effete fools that it's their job to sometimes buff you. There's no excuse for your team to not have Enlarge Person, the very best low level buff possible for martial types. Point this out to them. If they still don't get it, then it's reasonable for you to 'allow' a foe to get in on the casters, and then point out, "Hey Doofus, if you had cast Enlarge Person on me before that battle I'd have got an Attack of Opportunity on that mook, and you'd not have got hurt!". Teach your party's arcane caster[s] about God Wizard play style.
isn't it better if u just do a normal barbarian? u are in a spellcaster group, so might as well NOT go mainstream, so choose whatever u want, whatever colors u pink, whatever floats ur boat.
The original barbarian back in Unearthed Arcana, 1985, p. 19, said, "Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it."
isn't it better if u just do a normal barbarian? u are in a spellcaster group, so might as well NOT go mainstream, so choose whatever u want, whatever colors u pink, whatever floats ur boat.
The color of a man means a lot. If your yellow they'll think your a coward, if your pink you might be gaudy. Best go with red. I'll go ahead and paint it in the style most befitting of an armored man in a group of squishies. A big circle with a dot in the middle.
Also, define normal.
the main issue, is the DM is tailoring his encounters to the casters, their extremely limited resources, and the advantages they possess in the form of wiping out low level mooks
get a golem, an NPC dwarf, an outsider, a fey, an elemental, or an elementally inclined giant, and watch a few of them complain when their primary tactic fails a few times.
You can't. You just can't. PF is designed for Casters Rule, Warriors Drool. Just do what you can and accept the fact that the rules want you to be inferior ... or change to a spellcaster yourself.
That's neither helpful nor true.
He's surrounded by casters who are able to fire at the enemy before he can close ranks. It could just as easily be any other set of artillery-based combatants, spell-equipped or otherwise, that could be gimping him. The point isn't the magic. It's the artillery. If you're the only guy with an axe in a room full of shotgun-equipped hillbillies when the zombie apocalypse comes, you're probably going to find yourself a few kill-notches short on your axe handle.
It does sound like the GM has a limited imagination, in as far as his ability to challenge the thrust of the party. I like the idea of going into archery at least as a means of getting a shot or two in.
But my real advice would be to talk to the GM about his encounters. As a long time GM, I have always left the door open to comments from my players. There have been many times where a player has mentioned that more variety was needed. I think if your GM is worth his salt, he will hear you when you say you'd like to see more variety in creature types, tactics, terrain, etc. A nice, tight dungeon corridor would be perfect for you; you could play the meat shield and mow down whatever came to greet you.
The original barbarian back in Unearthed Arcana, 1985, p. 19, said, "Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it."
Which was stupid then, and irrelevant now.
The original barbarian back in Unearthed Arcana, 1985, p. 19, said, "Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it."Which was stupid then, and irrelevant now.
It's totally relevant, people love the Superstitious rage power. If you want to hate magic, no class does it better than the Barbarian (if you want mechanics to reflect it). It is, of course, totally optional.
As others have said, the issue is in the encounters being too easy/made for the casters. If one round of blasting levels the foes, then you don't really need to be there.
Just let the DM know that you don't feel engaged in these combats.
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Tactics wise, if the casters kill all the monsters in the room before you get to act, yell your name loudly, and charge into the next room and engage those monsters. This is known as the Leeroy Jenkins maneuver.
Just bump up the pace and steamroll things. Start the encounter 60' in front of the casters if you are looking for more action. If the casters pause to discuss strategy, or cast buffs, or loot the dead monsters, now is your chance to charge into the next encounter and get some swings in while they are preoccupied. Kick in some doors and run wild, show those casters how it should be done.
Tactics wise, if the casters kill all the monsters in the room before you get to act, yell your name loudly, and charge into the next room and engage those monsters. This is known as the Leeroy Jenkins maneuver.
I thought the Leroy Jenkins Maneuver only worked with dragonkin in Upper Black Rock Spire and wipes the raid party?
JK. You know yelling your name and charging in one turn ahead of everyone else is bound to give you a headstart on threat.
It's totally relevant, people love the Superstitious rage power. If you want to hate magic, no class does it better than the Barbarian (if you want mechanics to reflect it). It is, of course, totally optional.The original barbarian back in Unearthed Arcana, 1985, p. 19, said, "Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it."Which was stupid then, and irrelevant now.
Actually I take it because it leads into a bunch of other awesome rage powers and its one of the big reasons to play a barbarian. Not that optional as much as too awesome to not have. Even if you don't want good saves, having spell sunder, ghost rager, witch hunter, and eater of magic are all good things.
However as far as roleplaying goes, that old stigma isn't really relevant and it usually doesn't help to punch out your party members because your a bigot.
The original barbarian back in Unearthed Arcana, 1985, p. 19, said, "Barbarians in general detest magic and those who use it."Which was stupid then, and irrelevant now.
It is relevant because the original poster mentioned:
raging on my own casters when the barbarian is angry
This IS the place for Letter Fury:
Prerequisite: Goblin, rage class feature.
Benefit: If someone reads or writes in your presence (including casting spells like glyph of warding or symbol) you can, as an immediate action, choose to activate your rage class ability for 1 round. This round of rage does not count toward the total number of rounds which you can rage each day, but if you wish to continue your rage beyond that single round you must expend rounds from your daily rage allotment as normal. Once you use this feat you must wait at least 1 minute after you cease raging before you can use it again.