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Animist will sort of be that, I think? The flavor's probably different since it's a middle ground of it and Shaman, but it serves the same general purpose as well as the same thematic thrust. And the iconic situation is the same as any other, if they don't return as iconic of a class that doesn't mean they're not still extant in the world of Golarion.
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Not sure how much of Shaman is being included, but yes - Animist is most definitely the successor of Medium.
Currently, Animist hasn't been released - it is coming out in the War of the Immortals book in about a year. You can see the playtest version though since that just wrapped up earlier this week.
In comparison to Medium, Animist (playtest version) is a better spellcaster, but can't really be built as a martial. You also attune to multiple spirits during morning preparations, but only have one of them active at a time. You can switch which one is active with a 10 minute refocus activity when not in combat (or if playing Channeler Animist, as one action during combat).
The Apparitions, as they are now called, provide some lore skills, a cantrip, one spell per level added to repertoire, and - if they are the active spirit - a focus spell.
Looking at the PF1 class, I guess the split spellcasting - part prepared and part spontaneous - is coming from Shaman.
I haven't had the time to look into the playtest a ton, I just know some of the optimizer sorts on Discord were kind of impressed by how well it can work as an off-martial with the right apparition (that you can switch in or out pretty freely).
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Yeah, no idea how it is panning out in practice, but they were pretty adamant in the announcement stream that they wanted to avoid the 1e Medium issue where the ability to switch roles was punished by making the class underperform at every role.
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I haven't had the time to look into the playtest a ton, I just know some of the optimizer sorts on Discord were kind of impressed by how well it can work as an off-martial with the right apparition (that you can switch in or out pretty freely).
Yeah, the playtest version is a quite competent Gish class. At the moment it has arguably the best wild shaping performance in the game from L3 to about L13 or so. Or you can hit people with pointy sticks at least as well as a warpriest/
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Not entirely sure that I believe it for anything other than whiteroom theory.
Darkened Forest Form lets Animist work like a Wild Shape Druid - with the same drawback that you can't cast spells while in a Polymorph form.
Embodiment of Battle and Grudge Strike look good on paper - kinda. It ends up being one big attack each round. But still at spellcaster levels of proficiency. Embodiment of Battle gives a bonus to attack rolls, but it doesn't really make up the difference - at least not for anything other than the highest levels of gameplay. And if you don't max your Strength score, your attack bonus will go downhill from there. And you are using your bonus types already, so your allies won't be able to further buff your attacks - they won't stack.
So if you pump all of your character build power into being an off martial, you can do moderately well at it. As well as other spellcasters do. Maybe even as well as a spellcaster with a martial archetype but without needing to spend the archetype feats on it. But if you want one big hit each round, Magus, Swashbuckler, Barbarian, Ranger, Thaumaturge, Fighter, ... all do it better out of the box.
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Or you can hit people with pointy sticks at least as well as a warpriest/
Gish as well as a Warpriest actually sounds about right. Though I would also point out that Animist costs more actions to do it.
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But if you want one big hit each round, Magus, Swashbuckler, Barbarian, Ranger, Thaumaturge, Fighter, ... all do it better out of the box.
I mean, feels like a given that the 4 slot full caster is going to be worse with weapons than a dedicated martial.
Embodiment + Grudge Strike gives you reliable damage and accuracy no other full caster can come close to though.
And Grudge is wandering so if you don't feel like meleeing on one day you can swap the feat.
Embodiment + Grudge Strike gives you reliable damage and accuracy no other full caster can come close to though.
That's what I mean by theorycrafting though.
First, that routine is a 3 action investment. You only get to move if you have also taken Sustaining Dance. And even with that, you only get to make one attack each round.
Second, that is including bonuses. So you won't be able to benefit as much from things from the rest of your party even. Like the Swashbuckler with One for All throwing out Aid. Or the Bard's Inspire Courage.
Third, Battle Oracle and Warpriest would be my counterproposals on 'damage and accuracy no other full caster can come close to'. No they aren't able to swap it out the next day, but it also doesn't take them an entire round to make one attack.
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It's not theorycrafting though, it's what the class feels like in actual play. From actually playtesting the class. The animist leaps around critting people because they're the most accurate person in the party and if they ever don't want to hit someone they're still a full caster.
Kind of silly to assume someone must be talking out their ass just because they disagree with you.
Third, Battle Oracle and Warpriest would be my counterproposals on 'damage and accuracy no other full caster can come close to'.
They don't really compare though. A warpriest needs to be keeping heroism up on themselves to match just a part of what Embodiment does, and they're going to run out of those much faster than the Animist.
No they aren't able to swap it out the next day, but it also doesn't take them an entire round to make one attack.
I mean you can also not use grudge strike and that leaves you still competitive with the warpriest without spending a spell slot.
You do have a point that if you're not very high level and the party has a bard and a one for all swashbuckler and there's no other martial for the swashbuckler to buff, then the animist's gimmicks become pretty redundant, but that's kind of a really contrived and specific scenario... and even then the animist can just switch to a different focus spell and feat, so it's not exactly the end of the world for them either. I'm not going to shed a tear for being 'forced' to just make the enemy roll twice on attack rolls because my party is feeding me buffs.
Yeah, I was playing at level 5 and level 7. I tried being a Gish. I wasn't landing crits constantly because I was the highest accuracy character in the party. I was instead rolling at lower attack bonus than the Magus and Rogue. Even with Embodiment of Battle.
So from what I was seeing in my actual play - being a Gish kinda worked but was fiddly. It certainly didn't outperform Magus. And being as good or better than an actual martial didn't work at all. I only saw an attack bonus as high as a martial when being assisted by other allies - and that same assistance on the martial instead would generally be a better choice.
Martial medium animist in practice will depend of how its archetype will work. But like any other archetype it will be your auxiliary/secondary class your focus always stays on your class.
It's like skald. We don't have one but make a martial class with a Bard's dedication can reach a similar context buy your char always being focused in your class but this usually is enought (sometimes better) to make a good skald.
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It's funny, I never thought of that as a punishment. I rather enjoyed the "jack of all, master of none" aspect.
It's more of a table-specific issue. If you play with people who like to optimize and the DM balances things with that in mind, then "jack of all, master of none" can quickly become "jack of none".
jack of all trades is a fun archetype but I'd argue the PF1 Medium just didn't do that very well. A lot of their options just weren't very good in general.
I'd say that the Animist is the closest thing we have currently, but... class building in PF2 is an iterative process, you know?
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another class later on that did role-swapping under a vaguely similar mechanic, perhaps without the heavy investment in raw spellcasting. I could definitely imagine the Occult wave caster version of the concept being called "Medium".
I feel like thematically, Animist is more Shaman than it is Medium.
...and the one that I'm really interested in is the slotless version of the concept. Of course, I'm personally still over here snuggling up to Kineticist and giggling gently. I expect that we won't start see the next of that kind of class again until I (and those like me) come down from that particular high, and that's going to be a while.
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I'd say that the Animist is the closest thing we have currently, but... class building in PF2 is an iterative process, you know?
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another class later on that did role-swapping under a vaguely similar mechanic, perhaps without the heavy investment in raw spellcasting. I could definitely imagine the Occult wave caster version of the concept being called "Medium".
Depending on how you are building the PF1 Medium, I could also see things like a Thaumaturge with Animist Archetype being closer to an equivalent.
Medium was a level 4 caster at its base. That often ends up equating to archetype levels of spellcasting power.
I'd say that the Animist is the closest thing we have currently, but... class building in PF2 is an iterative process, you know?
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another class later on that did role-swapping under a vaguely similar mechanic, perhaps without the heavy investment in raw spellcasting. I could definitely imagine the Occult wave caster version of the concept being called "Medium".
I would be, tbh. Outside the APG (which is largely a failed experiment) Paizo feels like they've been doing more to avoid that kind of design than leaning into it. It feels conspicuous how often Paizo creates an idea and then doesn't touch it again for years and years (if ever).
The fact that the Medium (and Binder) were both specifically referenced multiple times as starting points for the class makes me feel like Paizo's more likely to consider the idea solved than otherwise. Certainly not anything happening anytime soon.