# Obscene Damage - Please check my math!

I've played two sessions now with my two-handed fighter (with the two-handed archetype), and I'm dealing ridiculous damage. I would like some help double - and triple - checking my math. Here is my build:

Human Fighter (Two-Handed Fighter archetype), level 1
Str 19, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
BAB +1
Feats: Power Attack, Furious Focus, Cleave
Weapon: Falchion

So here's my math:
My falchion deals 2d4 damage. I'm wielding it in two hands, and my Str mod is +4, so I get +1.5 Str mod damage, for a total of 2d4+6. Power attack grants +2 +half for two-handed, for +3. This increases it to 2d4+6+3 = 2d4+9. I crit on an 18-20 for x2 damage. On a crit, I deal 4d4+18.

As you can see, 11-17 damage (22-34 damage on a crit) is quite high. My GM, though this is only his first campaign as a GM, also thinks this is quite high. Would someone mind looking at my math? And if this math is correct, how can my GM deal with such high damage output (since I can fell most opponents with one hit, at a +5 attack (BAB +1, Str +4, Power Attack -1, Furious Focus negates first Power Attack per round)?

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Your math is fine. Crazy high damage is what high-strength fighters *do*. As for one-shotting things at first level, that's to be expected. You'll be running into many enemies that can one-shot you right back (although they'll have to roll better than your fighter does), so not having someone able to do so makes first level potentially very dangerous.

What it is said.

The math and damage are accurate. Note that CR 1 and lower opponents usually don't have that many hit points, making it hard to balance. (Your and your "clone" could take each other out in one or two hits.)

The DM is probably frustrated by the fragility of low-level game balance.

Yep, you're fine, right in line with most two-handed fighters, barbarians, samurai, etc at low level. It's what your character is designed to do!

Eventually your GM will figure out that you have a relatively low Will save, lack Perception and can generally be caught flat-footed fairly easily due to your low initiative...but hopefully, you'll figure all those out first and work to shore those little foibles up.

Nodachi is better.

All looks correct and fairly standard to me. Use a greatsword, and it's 2d6+9. Be a barbarian, and you get pretty much all of that, plus more Str and Con out of Rage - fairly standard build where I come from.

Also, note that your damage output doesn't exactly go up too much from here. You'll get an extra +1 out of a magic weapon eventually, and maybe +2 from Specialisation if you go that way. Apart from that, until you get iterative attacks, you won't be doing much more damage than this.

JDCAce wrote:
I've played two sessions now with my two-handed fighter (with the two-handed archetype), and I'm dealing ridiculous damage.

STR 20, enlarged (to 22) using a greatsword (2d6 goes to 3d6) with weapon focus instead of cleave (and that's as a fighter rather than a barbarian raging).

You'd attack at +7 (1BAB 6STR -1size 1Weapon Focus -0PA/furious focus) dealing 3d6 + 12 (9STR+3PA) for an average of 22.5hps.

As others have said you are a FIGHTER. You have chosen the most offensive designed build for a fighter. If you are NOT dealing ridiculous damage, then something is wrong.

-James

As others have said, your math is fine. Two handed figthers who dedicate their build to damage do that very, very well.

How your DM should deal with it? He shouldn't worry too much about it. 1st and 2nd level are like that. Some PCs also have just single digit HPs and can be oneshotted by a lucky hit and maybe even killed by a lucky crit as well. One advice to the GM: Avoid x3 or x4 weapons at those levels, for that very reason.

It will sort itself out in a few levels. Your damage won't significantly increase till 4th level, when you get to the next tier of power attack, but the HPs of NPCs at that level will have aproximately trippled.

YogoZuno wrote:
Also, note that your damage output doesn't exactly go up too much from here. You'll get an extra +1 out of a magic weapon eventually, and maybe +2 from Specialisation if you go that way. Apart from that, until you get iterative attacks, you won't be doing much more damage than this.

Uh...

and Power Attack, which scales quite heavily with a 2-hander

YogoZuno wrote:

All looks correct and fairly standard to me. Use a greatsword, and it's 2d6+9. Be a barbarian, and you get pretty much all of that, plus more Str and Con out of Rage - fairly standard build where I come from.

Also, note that your damage output doesn't exactly go up too much from here. You'll get an extra +1 out of a magic weapon eventually, and maybe +2 from Specialisation if you go that way. Apart from that, until you get iterative attacks, you won't be doing much more damage than this.

I disagree. A belt of strength and level 4 bump +2 damage.

Overhand chop. A dip in barb. potions of enlarge. Plus power attack will grow every 4th level. If someone wants a two handed pounder their damage stay obscene.

It gets to the point the dice matter little and the bonuses do the damage.

Lots to look forward to, at level 10 (now 12, don't have my current character sheet with me) my fighter was doing 2d8+26 on a normal hit when self buffed and critting for 6d8+78. This was as a pole fighter, I think 2HF archetype hits even harder.

The damage calculation is correct, but how do you have a 19 Strength? Those stats add to a 22 point buy.

Either using a 25 point buy or rolling for stats would account for a 19 strength build.

Honorable Goblin wrote:
The damage calculation is correct, but how do you have a 19 Strength? Those stats add to a 22 point buy.

I get 20 points; are you subtracting the 2 points for the 8 CHA? Or they could have just rolled stats.

Stats could have been rolled...

Either way, let your DM know he is free to use monsters with a CR equal to the average party level +2. This means you could face some CR3 creatures with more HP than you can do on a crit and mitigating factors (Medium earth elemental comes to mind with 34 HP and immunity to crits; could also one-shot you).

If I were you, I'd have a plan if you'll be in higher level play at all (12th plus). Having had a strictly martial character make it to 13th level, I know how obsolete you can feel without a means of dealing with the following:

Flight
Swarms
Casters that target will saves

17 str+2 racial 13points
12 dex 2 points
14 con 5 points
12 wisdom 2 points
8 cha -2 points

thats 20 points.

HUMAN fighter

I thought you don't multiply the +9 on a crit...

I Hate Nickelback wrote:
I thought you don't multiply the +9 on a crit...

You multiply everything that doesn't say don't multiply it.

Enhancement Damage
Power Attack Damage
Strength Damage
Weapon Specialization Damage
Magus Spellstrike Damage

What you don't multiply :

Elemental Bonuses (Shock, Flame, etc)
Sneak Attack Damage

bah...this isn't even all that high a damage build. My level 1 barbarian with +12-15 UMD check will have 24 str while raging. Enlarge for +2 str + bigger dice. Lead blade for bigger dice. That with a large huge aklys is 6d6+10 damage. I will admit that the -4 to hit means I only hit at a +4 at level 1. Average damage will be 31 however. If the damage of a plain old falchion THF frightens you...then you haven't seen nothing yet :P .

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i have a 2H fighter 3/Barb 1/Alch 1 and with rage and mutagen, plus enlarge and lead blade (from an item) his tetsubo does an average of like 45 damage per hit at 5th level... he crit something last session for 180 damage.

I've been playing crits wrong for a long, long time.

I've never felt so dumb.

don't feel bad nickelback. one of my friends tried to argue that a while back.

As other have mentioned, that damge is pretty much standar for your stats. Now, it may be too much for your group, in that case is more a problem with play style.

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I Hate Nickelback wrote:

I've been playing crits wrong for a long, long time.

I've never felt so dumb.

LOL

No biggie dude, I wish I had \$1 for everytime I've found a rule I was using wrong (due to changes in versions, or FAQs, or just getting 2 different similar systems confused, or forgetting it was a houserule from 10 years ago).

Honorable Goblin wrote:
The damage calculation is correct, but how do you have a 19 Strength? Those stats add to a 22 point buy.

Ignore my post, I'm a doofus. I added wrong.

Thanks for the advise and confirmation, guys. You're right: it's a 20-point buy, with my human's +2 going into Strength. Also, I played D&D 3/3.5 on and off for about five years, plus GMed a Pathfinder game for six months before I realized you multiply the +9 on a crit. (Actually, a player brought it to my attention, the same one who is testing out the GM seat now.) As for the nodachi, yeah, it may be better, but my character doesn't currently have access to eastern weapons.

Low level pathfinder is rocket tag. So is very high level PF. Low level fighters, barbarians, and the like essentially have a "Save or Die", where the save is your armor class with two handed weapons for an awful lot of threats. So too do casters with sleep, color spray, etc. Maybe your GM is used to parties full of skill monkey rogues, sword and board fighters, healbot clerics, and blaster wizards?

EWHM wrote:
Low level pathfinder is rocket tag. So is very high level PF. Low level fighters, barbarians, and the like essentially have a "Save or Die", where the save is your armor class with two handed weapons for an awful lot of threats. So too do casters with sleep, color spray, etc. Maybe your GM is used to parties full of skill monkey rogues, sword and board fighters, healbot clerics, and blaster wizards?

Hey my blaster sorcerer was burning handsing (its a word now dangit) at level 1 for 4d4+4 (avg 14 same as the fighter here) with a DC 17 reflex save. Thats a no miss AOE where at level 1 many monsters died even after making their saves. Not even cross blooded.

bfobar wrote:
EWHM wrote:
Low level pathfinder is rocket tag. So is very high level PF. Low level fighters, barbarians, and the like essentially have a "Save or Die", where the save is your armor class with two handed weapons for an awful lot of threats. So too do casters with sleep, color spray, etc. Maybe your GM is used to parties full of skill monkey rogues, sword and board fighters, healbot clerics, and blaster wizards?
Hey my blaster sorcerer was burning handsing (its a word now dangit) at level 1 for 4d4+4 (avg 14 same as the fighter here) with a DC 17 reflex save. Thats a no miss AOE where at level 1 many monsters died even after making their saves. Not even cross blooded.

You are doing it wrong. ;) Mine was blasting for 5d4+10 with DC 18 (not sure for the DC though). Well, he was crossblooded too.

BFobar,
Can't do that without stuff beyond core. Core only is what a lot of gms, myself included, are used to. Spell specialization, etc are what allow you to really ramp up the power of blasts.

Well, focusing on blasting is suboptimal after early game anyway.

EWHM wrote:

BFobar,

Can't do that without stuff beyond core. Core only is what a lot of gms, myself included, are used to. Spell specialization, etc are what allow you to really ramp up the power of blasts.

While I can see that many GMs are core only, I'm betting even more are at the very least expanded core (the PFS core assumption meaning the hard cover books mostly) if not the full line up. When talking about power levels of builds in the advice forum its pretty much assumed to not be core only unless stated otherwise. Considering that archetypes were being talked about pretty early on in this thread, its safe to assume its not "core only".

Heal-bots, sword and board, and rogues of nearly any type still are on the bottom tier of power level even with full access to everything. Blasters while not optimal are at least viable now.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
XMorsX wrote:
Well, focusing on blasting is suboptimal after early game anyway.

Not when you have the retraining rules. Be optimal at all levels of your adventuring career! :D

Ravingdork wrote:
XMorsX wrote:
Well, focusing on blasting is suboptimal after early game anyway.
Not when you have the retraining rules. Be optimal at all levels of your adventuring career! :D

Where these rules can be found? As far as I know only fighters can retrain their feats. Retraining for all would be a nice addition, even though the fighter feature would have less value as a result.

On the blaster topic, from mid game and on I usually turn them into battlefield controllers with the usual dazing (elemental and/or selective if need be) fireball. Usually works even better than dedicated conjurers BCs because late game your enemy can fly/teleport over walls, but still cannot escape your high DC dazing fireballs aiming at Reflex save.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They are in Ultimate Campaign. They can also be found in Paizo's official rule's site, the official PRD online.

The retraining rules fill out the gap in "where do PC class people come from?" The answer is they retrain their level 1 commoner they were born with.

Thanks, good to know.

You: "Oh F*#&!"

...balance.

Mix 2 Handed Fighter with some levels of Barbarian and you will do even more damage. Any strength boosts with a 2 handed fighter are effectively doubled beyond 3rd level so look at ways you can increase strength (spells, rage, etc) and also consider size increases as they provide big differences in damage dice as well as giving reach for more A.o.O.

Finally as Sir Thugsalot points out address your will save or you will spend more time being a liability than smacking stuff.

Don't worry. My half-giant barbarian 1/psychic warrior 1 does 4d6+12 with his greatsword. (With a +10 on the attack roll) Your puny human isn't overpowered in any way.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seeing as he can only kill one creature at a time, he really isn't.