7heprofessor's page

Organized Play Member. 266 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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Darche Schneider wrote:

Trying to figure out a guy who has massive amounts of DR. So far the best I have is an Asimar or Tiefling using this trait.. possibly going alchemist to get preserve organs though.

There is also the invulnerable rager for 1/2 level in DR but no anti-crit.

Any advice?

Here you go.


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Tacticslion wrote:


After finally having the time (been out of town for a bit) to look it up, you are entirely correct. Whoops!

(Somehow, I'd read that passage a lot, but missed that one line repeatedly. Sorry, and thanks!)

That said, I think if you presented a pretty fool-proof way to ensure a tiny god doing good (homunculus is your alignment; you can voluntarily accept an atonement as part of this process) the bargain could be made, but it's better to stick with the player-controlled elements such as efreeti.

Good call, there. :)

Glad you liked the rest of it, though!

Not a problem, this has been a very informative exercise for me, so I'm glad I could help others as well. I do agree that sticking with the efreeti removes much of the potential for nay-saying. Though, having a Solar aid us sure would be nice!

Tacticslion wrote:

Magic crafting can be accelerated to 4 hours/1k gold value by increasing the DC by 5, but I'm uncertain that crafting constructs follows exactly the same rules for magic item creation. Anyone have any ideas?

the above link wrote:

Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. <snip potions and scrolls> This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit.

(bold mine)

Also,

still the above link wrote:
A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used
...

Rather coincidental that you posted this last night, as right around that time I was just stumbling on the magic item creation rule you cited. Thanks for the link though, it's nice to have this all in one place.

Do you know if we can accelerate this even further by adding 5 to the DC multiple times? A strict reading of the RAW would leave me to believe no, but I have an idea in mind that would allow us a nigh-infinite Spellcraft check, so being able to expedite Timmy's creation further would be great.

I do believe that a construct counts as a magical item in all respects; so that 1 at a time limitation would apply. Additionally, I don't see any differences in the creation of constructs vs. other magical items, save for the individual constructs varied requirements and modification rules.


ShadowcatX wrote:
7heprofessor wrote:

Disagree. Contingency is set to an event. Becoming targeted by Mage's Disjunction is an event and your contingent goes off; just like a ready action to counter a spell. I don't see any difference other than you don't need to ready an action.

If it's debatable, tie your contingency to "enemy spell caster tries casting Mage's Disjunction."

And somewhere, half a world away, a mage who is working for a government that wishes to conquer your continent and enslave your people casts mage's disjunction and your contingency randomly goes off.

Gotta be careful with contingency triggers.

That's the same grey area that some people encounter with Wish spells. It all depends on whether or not the GM wants to screw over the players.


Disagree. Contingency is set to an event. Becoming targeted by Mage's Disjunction is an event and your contingent goes off; just like a ready action to counter a spell. I don't see any difference other than you don't need to ready an action.

If it's debatable, tie your contingency to "enemy spell caster tries casting Mage's Disjunction."


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The spells are already there, it's all about how you use them. It's takes a GM that will allow spells to do things outside of their descriptors at times, but justifying them is not difficult.

A player of mine once used Ray of Frost to freeze a bunch of water in buckets. Then chopped it up and put their freshly killed game in with it. This let them have "rations" for two days instead of one. Not too shabby for a cantrip.

Lullaby was used to help an insomniac get some z's.

Prestidigitation's uses are limitless (some have already been mentioned here).

Comprehend Languages was used on an infant to hilarious effect!

If your love life is stagnant, Disguise Self can be used to get your partner back into "the mood"!

Seriously, look at any spell, and I can think of another use for it.


Contingency -> Greater Dispel Magic to counterspell a Mage's Disjunction that includes you in the area.

It's not a guarantee, but you get a chance at least.


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Cevah wrote:
Scorpion Whip:
Scorpion Whip wrote:
It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.
Solves the damage issue for 4gp.

Correct, but that is from Ultimate Combat, not the Core rulebooks. Very useful for when we move outside of Core though. There's a slew of Whip-related feats we can take advantage of at that point.

cevah wrote:

A permanent spell is an active spell. It can be dispelled. It therefore goes away with the summoned creature. An Instant spell cannot be dispelled. They don't go away with the summoned creature.

Fair enough, that's confirmation enough for me. Not really interested in arguing semantics, so I'll let this lie.

cevah wrote:

He cannot ignore the crafting feat(s), and for some things, cannot ignore the spell. [Scrolls, Wands, etc.]

Correct. To specify from the PFRD Magic Item Creation rules:

"In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites."

We don't currently qualify to take any of these item creation feats anyway, so that's rather moot. Once we incorporate the Ultimate Magic rules of adding spell-like abilities, this will become relevant again.

cevah wrote:

Some SLAs are not pegged to HD/levels. These should remain. Ones pegged to HD/levels remain only if enough HD/levels remain. Check out the Simulacrum thread. Some previous posts to mine have James Jacobs' thoughts on the spell, as well as many questions answered.

/cevah

EDIT: Added Simulacrum stuff

Glad to hear this is going to work. Sounds like we have a pretty solid resource-generating scheme via Candle of Invocation to summon Efreeti to create Simulacrum to create more Simulacrum to craft stuff for us.

Once I start my next class (it's a mere one-credit Personal Health and Fitness course; easy-mode!) I'll try to draw up an actual detailed, specific sequence of events to attain Tiny Godhood...unless someone wants to volunteer! :)

mathwei ap niall wrote:

And if you rushed it with an additional +5 to the DC you would double how much gold value you can produce during the day.

Put these two tactics together and you'd have Timmy ready in about 4-ish months.

Does the "rushing" rule apply to magical item creation? Because Timmy is effectively a magic item.


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Ipslore the Red wrote:

Certainly.

Blanket summoning prohibition:

Magic, Conjuration (Summoning) wrote:
A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
Others:
Summon Monster wrote:


A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them. Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).
Summon Nature's Ally and other "Summon X" spells contain the same language.

Great, thank you!

Defining "expensive" would be prudent, but for now I'll take it to mean anything with a material component costing 1 gp or more.


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Tacticslion wrote:


Solars are viable.

But it then goes on to say:

"In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD does not exceed your caster level."

Which a 20HD Solar does. So, you can call it, but can't make it do anything!?

Tacticslion wrote:

Second: "It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)."

Not half their SLAs, but half their HD and appropriate etc.

The word "appropriate" is hotly debated, but, in game terms, "appropriate" has always meant "those things based on HD" which, in PF is thoroughly distinguished from CL for SLAs.

If you want to argue that a 5HD Efreeti with CL 5 is "inappropriate" to be able to cast wish, but you're argument is weak because it's not strong enough to "cast" wish in the first place - it's already 7CL short of being "able" to "appropriately" cast wish, hence any argument on simulacra boil down to, "I don't like it" as opposed to, "supported in any reasonable conclusion by RAW." (Note: GMs can and should be free to rule whichever way in their home games, and not permitting this trick is certainly "reasonable" in any home game; however what I am talking about is reasonable readings of...

I was likewise unable to find any reference stating that Spell-like abilities are keyed to a specific Hit Die of the creature. Ergo, even a 1HD Efreeti should be able to cast Wish.

Great points, and thank you for the clarification.


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Ipslore the Red wrote:
Summoned creatures cannot use spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components, use teleportation spells, or use summoning spells.

Can you cite this ruling please? I'm unable to find it.

nazerith wrote:

I just realized that this thread has been operating under a false pretense. What we are building isn't using rules from the Core Rulebook. The rule for crafting a Homunculus is from Bestiary 1, which I will accept as being core. But the rules for adding Hit Dice to constructs comes from Ultimate Magic. Otherwise we'd have to use the advancement rules from Bestiary (pgs 295-296) which are WAY different. And they require lots of GM decision making during advancement.

So to keep what we have but stick with theme I propose the following books be considered "Core" for this exercise:

Core Rulebook
Bestiary
Game Master Guide
Advanced Players Guide
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Equipment

This opens us up to lots more feats, weapons, items and effects without adding every splat book in existence.

It is widely accepted that the Phb, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide are the three Core rulebooks of D&D. Pathfinder being an equivalent, the Bestiary and Game Mastery Guide are considered Core as well (in my experience at least). You can't really play the game without them. Every book in addition to these three, are supplemental rules.

The rules for adding Hit Dice are referenced in the Homunculus description, so the Ultimate Magic guidelines are trumped by the specific ruling.

tacticslion wrote:
...good stuff...

Ok, I understand what your thought process is now and I absolutely love it. The only question I have remaining, is: Can the Simulacrum use the Wish spell-like ability (to then create simulacrum)?

Simulacrum states:

"It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)"

So it only has half of the spell-like abilities of the Efreeti. Which ones does it lose? Perhaps erring on the side of "the most powerful or highest-level abilities are lost first" would be prudent?

Also, the CL on the Candle of Invocation is only 17, so it's can't summon a Solar, correct?


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Set wrote:
7heprofessor wrote:
So, as long as we select one of these languages for Mr. Wizard, we can ask the Lantern Archon to make us 5 ever-burning torches while he's around (5 round duration). Each torch sells for 90 gp, and we summon 2/day for a total of 900 gp per day; or 328,500 gp per year.

P 210 of Core states, "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it had cast expire."

This kiboshes the lantern archon continual flame mill, IIRC.

Hmm, it uses the term "expire" which would imply the duration runs out. Continual Flame has a Permanent duration. Thoughts?

Seems a bit of a stretch so I'm not hell-bent on defending it, but I'd like a second opinion.

cevah wrote:

Last I read, you have Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll as feats for Timmy. Neither can use Master Craftsman for CL, so how does he get CL?

More fun: Have Timmy make a Homunculus or two for himself.

Another feat for free money: False Focus. You get up to 100 gp in free material components for use by any spell.

/cevah

Correct, Timmy only qualifies for Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wondrous Item.

Going outside of Core allows us to add spell-like abilities to Timmy which would net him a CL to select the other item creation feats as well. His ridiculous Spellcraft check would also allow him to ignore all prerequisite spells and increase the crafting time significantly.


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Vritra wrote:
Besides, the AoOs problems are solved by having high Acrobatics. You can easily have +100 or more, enough to avoid any AoO

Good call!

I've found another money-making venture that appears to be quite lucrative:

A 5th level Wizard (the lowest level possible to start crafting Timmy) can cast Summon Monster III at least twice a day to summon Lantern Archons. These creatures can cast Continual Flame at-will as a spell-like ability (this removes the material components, among other things) as well as speak Celestial, Draconic, and Infernal.

So, as long as we select one of these languages for Mr. Wizard, we can ask the Lantern Archon to make us 5 ever-burning torches while he's around (5 round duration). Each torch sells for 90 gp, and we summon 2/day for a total of 900 gp per day; or 328,500 gp per year.

Selling 3600 torches a year is pretty decent, but would eventually saturate the market. So, use a few of these gp to purchase a scroll or three of Plane Shift (as well as a few ranks in Knowledge The Planes and maxed out Spellcraft) and take your ever-burning torch business around the galaxy.

The average Elf lifespan is ~700 years so that would amount to 229,950,000 gp pre-immortality; or 114,900 Hit Dice for Timmy (rounded down to account for food, scrolls of plane shift, and hookers).


Nazerith wrote:

Just a few notes I want to add to dear old Timmy.

Time - Timmy takes 1.2 years to craft (1 Day per 1,000 gold)

Indeed. This wizard must hold up in his tower for quite some time. Luckily, most wizards are accustomed to such things.

Nazerith wrote:

Weapons - In addition to Scimitar, Timmy should wield a small size whip as a two-hand weapon (-2 penalty for size difference). This allows Timmy to hit opponents at 15 ft range and can take advantage of all his attacks plus feats such as Great Cleave.

Let's be honest, with Timmy's massive damage, critical threat holds less value than multiple targets. You just need the Scimitar to handle opponents with natural armor (or switch to bow).

Timmy also has Lunge and Whirlwind attack, so his reach is increased further and he can attack anyone within it as a full-attack action. Any reach weapon will do.

The Whip will negate damage done to anyone wearing armor as well as anyone with natural armor of +3 or better, and Timmy doesn't threaten within the reach granted by it. I'm not sure of the advantage here.

fueldrop wrote:

Could we build Timmy for grappling? I mean, even with his size penalties the sheer BAB and strength of Timmy means he can pretty much annihilate anything he encounters in a grapple, particularly if we break from core and get greater grapple ect, making it a move action to initiate the grapple and then a move action to deal damage.

Given how many feats Timmy has it's not exactly a huge drain on his resources to give him this option.

Timmy is an expert at all combat maneuvers in the Core book. His CMB is at least +242, well enough to decimate any and every creature in the Bestiary, using one hand (this assumes Vritra's conservative build at 221HD).

Honestly, I don't think he even needs the feats to do them well, but they remove the AoO for attempting them. He automatically provokes an AoO for entering most creature's reach, but his 2000+ HP and 256 CMD will protect him from any AoO I can think of. Nothing can possibly break out of the grapple without Freedom of Movement, and a Timmy can just pin them and then bite them to death should he choose.

tacticslion wrote:

Guys, EVEN IF the candle doesn't get repaired: simulacrum will work.

EVEN IF the simulacrum is under the power of the wish granter, that's 17 days of multiplying wealth generation. (Efreet simulacra of itself x3/day for 17 days; the simulacra do all the work; you get the profit, the efreeti's payment, the Efreeti gains perfect servants after the days' duration: itself).

That's more than enough to generate enough wealth; what's more, you can get a one-use simulacra effect easily enough. Use it: win.

(Apologies for the formatting; I'm currently on an iPad, and coding's frustrating.)

Question: does using a spell-like ability (not a spell) to grant a wish that requires a non-you person to make the wish count you as the caster? Weird, because, if so, 1) you're not casting a spell, and 2) you're not granting the wish.

But anyway. :)

I'm in lecture right now, but I'm very curious how this would work exactly. Get the crayons out and explain it to me like I'm five please!

1) Activate Candle and summon an Efreeti
2) Command Efreeti to grant you wish 1 of 3 to emulate Simulacrum targeting itself
3) ...?

I'm not sure what you do after that. The Efreeti now has a Simulacrum of itself under its absolute command. Do you use your remaining two Wishes to have the Efreeti use its Simulacrum to craft for you or something? How many different demands can you make?


Ravingdork wrote:

I found a feat called Focused Overseer that let's you earn or purchase a specific kind of downtime capital at half the normal cost. A prerequisite feat, Focused Worker, let's you earn said capital faster. Both are from Paizo's Quests and Campaigns, which includes loads of fun new supplementary rules for their downtime system from Ultimate Campaign.

That means you can earn magic capital for only 25gp a pop. Each magic capital you spend towards magic item creation reduces costs by 100gp.

Your 880,000gp is now effectively 3,520,000gp.

Have fun with that 1,700+ HD homunculus boys.

You may also want to check out my thread "Magical Item Crafting on the Cheap" for even more cost saving measures. After all, if you're going to take it this far, why not go all in?

I checked out your thread and, while it's a great exercise, it doesn't appear to contain any Core material. The goal of this thread is to first establish that this is possible with Core-only material, and then branch out into splatbooks.

Do any of your wealth-generation tricks work in the Core?

wierdoc wrote:

Only question, can we actually repair a candle of invocation using wish? If not, then we simply have to get an associate to sell our object worth more than 4,200 GP, and create an infinite loop of cash. In addition, if we can't repair candles then we get an additional wish to work with.

I would definitely say no to this one as a GM.

Candle of Invocation wrote:
In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process.
The candle isn't broken or inert; it has been consumed, and therefore no longer exists. Repairing it would be impossible.

I agree that one could interpret it that way. While it's very close to the cited rule of repairing magical items, there is enough discrepancy to warrant disagreement, so it's back to the drawing board.

Immortality (gained via becoming a Lich) combined with Fabricate and Craft skills/feats is the only viable means of generating nigh-infinite wealth that I can think of. It's too slow for my liking :(


"7heprofessor wrote:


Now let's see if I understand the exact sequence of things:

1) Attain 5th level and select Craft Construct as your bonus Wizard feat.
2) Use Craft Wondrous Item to create a Candle of Invocation
3) Activate the Candle to cast Gate and summon an Efreet
4) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 1 of 3 to repair the expended Candle of Invocation
5) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 2 of 3 to cast Blood Money
6) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 3 of 3 to cast Fabricate creating whatever object you desire.
7) Repeat steps 3-6 ad nauseum

Does this sit well with everyone? Is there another preferred method of nigh-infinite wealth?

Does anyone disagree with this method or prefer another method? I'd like to hammer out a definitive process before I start sifting through non-core material.


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Wizard 20.

Int goes to spells. Spells go to everything.


Persistent Spell is my preferred means of increasing the likelihood of spells working.

Definitely look into Magical Lineage for Suffocation and possibly Spell Specialization.

Greater Eldritch Heritage: Arcane will boost your Necromancy DCs as well as the standard Spell Focus feats.

Other than that, you don't actually have to be a specialist Necromancer if you don't want to. The school powers are meh, unless you're trying to Channel Energy.

Might consider Tin Foil's Witch suggestion.

Either way...just my 2 cp


Blackstorm wrote:
Hmmmm. She's not the SoS type caster. She have a bunch of spells useful in various kind of situations. Like searing light and dispel magic, she has cure and inflict spells, invisibility and greater (via the alternate racial samsaran, she get the inquisitor spell list), and some other spells. She just taken Debilitating Portent as spell (and my hexcrafter has just taken misfortune hex :)), so she has a wide range of spells, a good bunch against udead, for bg reasons. In addition, for a spontaneous caster I think metamagic are not so efficient, due to the increased casting time. I was searching throug the feats, but I don't see anything that hit my sight... or her. I would suggest eldricht heritage, but it seems she's nt like it...

Extend Spell is an awesome metamagic feat if she has any Buff spells that are of a decent duration. Extend spell can make them last for multiple combats, or even all day.

Weapon finesse was an interesting choice. I don't see her doing much damage with melee weapons...unless she has a bunch of melee-enhancing spells I guess...?

With her high Charisma score, definitely look into the Eldritch Heritage line of feats. I know you said it didn't really stand out to either of you, but the Oracle Handbook might provide some ideas:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WdtrZCESRmVfljXY196wMrMLTnS8Uzk4DEk3oQd VZok/edit?hl=en_US


SPACEBALL12345 wrote:

This sounds beyond awesome, especially when you consider things like wizard familiars and beast bonded witches... But I could use some clarification on this. Here's the bit from the PRD that makes me question the rules legality of it:

rules quotes:
I know we always go specifics trump generalities, but I don't see anything in the section on Homunculus creation that trumps the size limitations. The only thing I see is it lists a defined cost for increasing HD (which of course trumps the HD calculation method of cost/existing HD).

As you can see, Mathwei ap Niall addressed this on page one of this thread:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Harakani wrote:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs wrote:


Hit Dice Modification: Hit Dice represent the overall strength and power of a construct. They affect a number of subsequent abilities, including hit points, saving throws, and base attacks. Determine the effects of a Hit Dice modification using the rules for adding creature Hit Dice on pages 290–291 of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary. Because a construct’s size is limited, a Hit Dice modification cannot increase its size. Therefore Hit Dice modification can never increase the base construct’s Hit Dice beyond 50% of its total HD. Some constructs have a defined cost for increasing Hit Dice. To calculate the cost per Hit Die of other constructs, divide the construct’s construction cost by its existing Hit Dice.

A). That's from the optional construct modifications in Ultimate Magic and only affects modifying a construct AFTER it's been constructed.

B). That's the generic rules for general constructs. This example uses the specific rules for Homonculus modifications. Homonculi have spefic rules for crafting them which supercede this generic rule.

Quote:
A homunculus with more than 2 Hit Dice can be created, but each additional Hit Die adds +2,000 gp to the cost to create.

As you see this rule has no limit assigned to it.

Continue the exercise.


Ishpumalibu wrote:
Vritra wrote:

Candle of Invocation costs 4,800 to craft, meaning you can gate in your efreeti. Not sure how you convince for infinite money though.

EDIT: As well, even with nigh-limitless funds, it still takes you 1 day per 1,000 gp, meaning it takes you nigh-infinite time to construct Timmy.

So what if it takes 500 days, go to a timeless plane or whatnot. Bind some outsiders into making your toy, then enjoy having a super bodyguard.

Which Pathfinder planes are Timeless? I am not at all familiar with planar travel in Golarion.


sgtrocknroll wrote:
Craft (alchemy) +6

That's your money-maker at present. In this campaign I would strongly suggest dropping Identify (how likely is it you'll actually see a magical item anyway) and pick up Crafter's Fortune instead.

Then, next time you're in a city. Spend that 50 gp you just earned on supplies and post up for a bit crafting alchemical items to sell.

Light detectors are only DC 10 so you can increase the DC by 5 to expedite and still make the DC by taking 10.

Crafter's Fortune and one more Rank next level will let you make the vast majority of alchemical items by taking 10.

It's no get rich quick scheme, but it's probably the best you've got.


Tacticslion wrote:
7heprofessor wrote:
Vritra wrote:

Candle of Invocation costs 4,800 to craft, meaning you can gate in your efreeti. Not sure how you convince for infinite money though.

EDIT: As well, even with nigh-limitless funds, it still takes you 1 day per 1,000 gp, meaning it takes you nigh-infinite time to construct Timmy.

Correct, which is why immortality is essential.

@Ishpumalibu

Yes, that would work for removing the costly component. If we use one of the Undead methods of immortality listed above, we are even immune to the ability damage Blood Money inflicts, making it effectively free.

Blood Money doesn't work if you can't take the STR damage.

Quote:
Spellcasters who do not have blood cannot cast blood money, and those who are immune to Strength damage (such as undead spellcasters) cannot use blood money to create valuable material components.

So... that's unfortunate.

The real benefit with using things such as wish spell-like abilities is,

Quote:
A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus.
It does not put a value on "material components", and thus applies to all.

Well that's what I get for not reading the entire spell description. Thanks for pointing that out.

You raise an excellent point about Efreet/Solar utilizing Blood Money/Fabricate to vastly expedite this process. Though I'm dubious about using Simulacrum as it explicitly states "At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command." That would be the command of the efreeti so I don't know if you could have the simulacrum do anything...unless I'm missing something (again).

Do you think this removes the necessity for immortality? I really want to hammer home the nigh-infinite nature of Timmy, and I posit that immortality may still be essential to that.

If not, it's possible to achieve Tiny God-hood at 5th level. The minimum level needed for Craft Construct is 5th and it conveniently requires Craft Wondrous Item - which we can use to create the Candle of Invocation for 4,200 gp. Simply increase the Spellcraft DC by 5 for not having the Gate spell.

Now let's see if I understand the exact sequence of things:

1) Attain 5th level and select Craft Construct as your bonus Wizard feat.
2) Use Craft Wondrous Item to create a Candle of Invocation
3) Activate the Candle to cast Gate and summon an Efreet
4) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 1 of 3 to repair the expended Candle of Invocation
5) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 2 of 3 to cast Blood Money
6) Command the Efreeti to grant you Wish 3 of 3 to cast Fabricate creating whatever object you desire.
7) Repeat steps 3-6 ad nauseum

Does this sit well with everyone? Is there another preferred method of nigh-infinite wealth?


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Vritra wrote:

Candle of Invocation costs 4,800 to craft, meaning you can gate in your efreeti. Not sure how you convince for infinite money though.

EDIT: As well, even with nigh-limitless funds, it still takes you 1 day per 1,000 gp, meaning it takes you nigh-infinite time to construct Timmy.

Correct, which is why immortality is essential.

@Ishpumalibu

Yes, that would work for removing the costly component. If we use one of the Undead methods of immortality listed above, we are even immune to the ability damage Blood Money inflicts, making it effectively free.


In my experience the biggest downside of the Barbarian is their lack of multi-targeting. The best way I've found to get around that is using a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes and the Come and Get Me rage power (at lvl12).

Your main weapon is mostly irrelevant anyway. You could seriously kill most things with a big stick. I posit that Reach + Combat Reflexes will allow you to kill more enemies faster than a higher damage weapon without reach. Just make sure you also wear a spiked gauntlet for those situations where 5 ft step away is not am option.

I'd even bump Dex at level 8 if I were you.

As for Superstition being worth it: if your party is doing a lot of in-combat healing, consider that their actions could instead focus on killing the enemy. This is another form of proactive healing. Superstition is amazing at mid levels. I recommend it to every barbarian ever.


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Ishpumalibu wrote:
I don't think it's core but it seems masterwork transformation spell could generate cash.

It requires material components equal to the cost of creating a masterwork item. All it saves is time.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

@tacticslion: I'll respond when I'm done with class tonight.


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Gregory Connolly wrote:
This whole thread makes me think of a tiny society of gods created by one caster dumb enough to make one of these things able to make more of these things. It snowballs until you have a whole city of 200 HD Homonculi who really rule the world and let the puny Dragons and Humanoids and Undead think they are really in charge.

That's actually the premise similar to that of my current Warforged Artificer character. Eventually, he will become aware of how incredibly inefficient mortals are and begin crafting a construct nation in secret. It's gonna be awesome.

@Jon Fugi
The current idea is now to have infinite of both. Any ideas on how to facilitate this?


Tacticslion wrote:

The lowest level that I know of is the earliest you can acquire a candle of invocation to gate in an efreeti.

In 3.5 there were ways of summoning Pazuzu at 1st, but I don't think that works any more.

How would this generate infinite wealth? Wish no longer allows you to wish for items or money.


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Great work so far everyone. Timmy has come along quite nicely.

Now I'd like to take it to the next level: game-shattering.

It would seem that there are few weaknesses as-is, but I would like shore-up those weaknesses and add in more abilities to create a truly unbeatable creature. The only guaranteed method I can see would be to add more HD for more ability score increases and more feats

My goal is to generate nigh-infinite wealth which will in turn equal nigh-infinite Hit Dice. There are several methods to accomplish this:

1) Crafting:
Whether it be magical items or mundane gear, the rules for crafting allow for an artisan to turn a profit on the goods she creates. There are two caveats to this:

-Time (it takes a long time to make anything worth a substantial amount, and there are no immortal races in the CRB.)
-Supply and Demand (saturating an economy with a product will reduce the demand for that item, in turn reducing the value. You may not always have a buyer.)

Time can be circumvented by one of three

Core options:

A) Lichdom - becoming a Lich requires Character Level 11, 120,000 gp, and the Craft Wondrous Item feat. Easy enough for an 11th level Wizard.

B) Contingency -> Reincarnation - Tie the Contingency to "Death from old age" and you have a permanent, one-time get out of death free card. Sure, you might come back as a Kobold, but who cares!? You're alive and free to keep on crafting. This requires one 6th level Wizard spell and one 4th level Druid spell (scrolls costing 3150 and 700 gp respectively) When you come back to life, simply buy another scroll (or two) and cast them again.

C) Become a Vampire - you could find a vampire and strike a deal with it to make you one, but I wouldn't recommend ever being under the thumb of a Vampire...ever...NO, not even then.

Supply and Demand can be circumvented by using

The following:

A) There are 21 listed Craft skills in the CRB. An 11th level Wizard could conceivably have enough ranks in each to Take Ten and make simple items of each type. There are also eight Item Creation feats applying to Magical Items. An 11th level Wizard could have all of them. This alone would prevent the economy from becoming saturated of any one type of item for quite some time.

B) Plane Shift would allow a Wizard to transport herself to new worlds when hers becomes inefficient. She could then begin anew her Crafting regimen until that world is likewise saturated, and move on to the next.

2) Wall of Stone -> Stone to Flesh:
This effectively creates a nigh-infinite supply of food to sell. I'm not sure who would want to eat flesh, but it's a possibility to sell to all carnivorous animal handlers I guess...

3) Mirror of Opposition:
Create/summon a creature that can't possibly kill itself (small zombie or kobold wearing Adamantine Full Plate). Load it up with valuable magic items and have it look in the mirror. An exact duplicate will appear with all of the valuable items on it, and they'll stand there uselessly pounding on each other while you pilfer the items off of both of them. Rinse and repeat. (This costs 92,000 gp to buy the mirror, or 46,000 if you make it yourself).

If any one of these options are agreed to have the potential to create nigh-infinite wealth, than we have nigh-infinite money to spend on the creation of our Tiny God Timmy. That means, nigh-infinite HD which translates to nigh-infinite:

Ability Scores (1 per 4 Hit Dice)
Attack Bonus (1 per Hit Die)
Hit Points (5.5 per Hit Die)
Saving Throws (1 per 3 Hit Dice)
Armor Class (1 per 2 Dex increases, 1 per Improved Natural Armor feat)
Initiative (1 per 2 Dex increases)
Skill Points (2+Int per Hit Die)
CMB (1 per Hit Die)
CMD (1 per Hit Die)
Feats (1 per 2 Hit Dice)
Speed (5 ft. per Fleet feat)
Poison DC (1 per 2 Hit Dice)

If non-Core options are allowed, Timmy can gain:

Spell-like abilities of all Potion-qualifying spells (remember Summoner list here)
All of the Construct Modifications and/or Animated Object special abilities
A nigh-infinite damage Breath Weapon

Can anyone think of the lowest level one can attain nigh-infinite wealth? That will directly dictate at what level we can break the world.


Having never played an Inquisitor before, my only advice is the same advice I give to all reach weapon users:

Wear a spiked gauntlet.

This lets you threaten within 5ft as well as at range. Easy-peasy.


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Set wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Make the tiny god a familiar? No. Have him take Eldritch Heritage: Arcane and then Improved Familiar and he can have his own Homunculus familiar with half his HP and his full BAB. Brutal.

Perhaps also Leadership? His cohort will have to be 2 HD less then him, but, ha. A cohort could also can have class levels.

Same issue as Eldritch Heritage: it requires Character Level 7. Timmy only has racial Hit Dice which don't necessarily count.

Great idea though.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Character level also includes racial HD:

Monsters as PCs (I would add NPC's to this list as well) wrote:
If you are including a single monster character in a group of standard characters, make sure the group is of a level that is at least as high as the monster's CR. Treat the monster's CR as class levels when determining the monster PC's overall levels. For example, in a group of 6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2 levels of a core class, such as barbarian.
I consider this an addendum to the levels as defined in the CRB.

That quote only mentioned CR, not Hit Dice. There is no precedent set for your animal companion, familiar, or crafted construct having a CR at all.

I would say this is a stretch, and that players should seek the approval of their DM. Quite frankly, this thread was not intended for actual play, so I would say we should veer away from any questionable rules interactions.

@Capt. Darling, agreed. I think in order to really push Timmy's power level to maximum heights, having both ranged and melee capabilities is essential. Vritra has included both in his stat block.

@Chaoseffect, brutal indeed, if only it was a for-sure thing that he can qualify.


Having Timmy's master take Improved Familiar and designating Timmy would be detrimental to a few of his abilities.

His BAB would become +10 and his HP would drop to 1/2 his master's...I don't think that's worth it personally.

That said, taking this out of Core-Only would likely create a mini Pun-Pun. I would wager it would become the most powerful creature in the game.

Maybe something to work on during my break between classes...


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Harakani wrote:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs wrote:


Hit Dice Modification: Hit Dice represent the overall strength and power of a construct. They affect a number of subsequent abilities, including hit points, saving throws, and base attacks. Determine the effects of a Hit Dice modification using the rules for adding creature Hit Dice on pages 290–291 of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary. Because a construct’s size is limited, a Hit Dice modification cannot increase its size. Therefore Hit Dice modification can never increase the base construct’s Hit Dice beyond 50% of its total HD. Some constructs have a defined cost for increasing Hit Dice. To calculate the cost per Hit Die of other constructs, divide the construct’s construction cost by its existing Hit Dice.

I knew someone would point to this eventually, so I created this thread in anticipation. That was part of the reason I was pushing for a Core-only build as this rule is cited in an optional splatbook.

Mathwei ap Niall does a nice job of summarizing the linked threads findings, including the ever important specific vs general. Thanks for that!

As for Evolutions gained via Evolved Familiar, is there a way to designate Timmy as our Familiar? I didn't see Homunculus on the list of available options.

cevah wrote:
...awesome combat patrol idea

This is really good. But it does require a heavy focus on Dex to benefit from Combat Reflexes.

Vritra wrote:
If you could give it some form of regeneration, or a way to repair itself, then it becomes pretty self-sufficient as a creature.

Here is the section on Repairing Constructs:

Repairing Constructs:

Even with the best of care, most constructs will eventually become damaged. Unless a construct suffers some sort of structural damage that radically alters its physical form, the construct continues to function at its full efficiency, and only falls apart once reduced to 0 hit points. Ideally, however, a construct should see some repair before it reaches that point. The make whole or rapid repair spells provide the easiest way to keep a construct in good condition. Both spells repair damaged constructs, even magic-immune ones like golems.

Failing that, a crafter can repair a construct with the Craft Construct feat. When repairing a construct, its master spends 100 gp per Hit Die of the construct, and then makes a skill check as if he were crafting the construct with a DC of 5 less than the DC for crafting that construct. With a success, the construct regains 1d6 hit points per Hit Die of the construct. Completing a repair takes 1 day per 1,000 gp spent on the repair (minimum of 1 day). Repair in this way can only be performed while the construct is inanimate or nonfunctioning. At any time, a construct's creator can deactivate a construct under his control with a touch and a standard action.

A construct that has been completely destroyed cannot be repaired, though at the GM's option some of the materials may be usable in the construction of a new construct.

Additionally, some constructs have special means of repair, usually involving spells related to the golem's nature (such as the use of acid damage to heal a clay golem.)"

So, if we give him the Craft Construct feat and ranks in Craft (leatherworking), he can spend 22,100 gp and 23 days to heal himself for 221d6. Not exactly optimal, but it's there.

A better means would be an activated item of Make Whole or Rapid Repair. Just make sure his UMD is high enough to activate anything ever, and you're good to go.

Vritra wrote:
Poison (Ex): Bite—injury; save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/minute for 60 minutes; effectsleep for 1 minute; cure 1 save. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.

The DC of Timmy's poison is 10+1/2 Hit dice+con modifier+2 racial, or DC122. As was mentioned above, he can fill up his quiver with this poison, effectively coating all of his arrows with this Sleep poison. Anything not immune to Sleep or Poison is done.

Vritra wrote:

AR1(Dual Scimitars, 7 attacks):

1315
AR2(4 Scimitar+3 Shield, 7 attacks):
1218
AR3(3 Scimitar+ 4Shield, 7 attacks):
1193
AR4(Bow, 6 attacks)
927

Do these figures take his bite attack into account? A Power-Attack modified bite does a minimum 133 damage (as noted in your stat block)

Vritra wrote:
Any further increase to offense are looking miniscule, and I'll focus on building utility like Initiative or AC (Saving throws are high enough that he only fails the highest listed DC [that I know of] on a 1).

Saving throws are high enough as it is, but you have Lightning Reflexes listed as a feat. That can be swapped out for Improved Natural Armor. Also consider dropping the Crafting Feats (I don't know if he qualifies, where is the Caster Level coming from?) for more Improved Natural Armor if AC is a concern. Obviously if in melee combat, Combat Expertise makes AC a non-issue.

Overall, FANTASTIC work Vritra! With work, accelerated summer courses, my daughter, and gf, time is on a premium for me. I wish I had more time to invest in this idea right now, but you have done an amazing job leading the charge on this. Kudos.


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Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
7heprofessor wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

And with the feats I laid out he shoots up to 7 attacks a round, every round (8 if he invests in a speed/haste option) or even more if he opens up to using some non-core abilities (Ricochet shot, I'm looking at you.

4 from BAB, 1 from Rapid Shot, 1 from Manyshot

Where's the 7th coming from?

Everyone always gets a standard attack. That's why characters with 0 bab can still attack.

BaB lets you attack up to 4 more times on top of that.

Negative. As was posted above:

"Scaling Powers: Hit dice, base attack bonuses, and saving throws continue to increase at the same rate beyond 20th level, as appropriate for the class in question. Note that no character can have more than 4 attacks based on its base attack bonus."

Vritra wrote:


So I finish calculating base damage, and with a +1 adaptive Longbow his minimum damage for archery is 810 damage, assuming all attacks hit with Deadly Aim.

TWF min damage is 1206 without upgrades, with a 15-20 crit range.

(Now, is there a way to get Pounce?)

Remember that the TWF route is still only 7 attacks (there were 8 listed on the Doc at the time of this post)

As for Pounce, the following are all I know of:

Tiger Style
Beast Totem Barbarian
Mobile Fighter archetype
Dimensional Dervish feats
Kitsune with Vulpine pounce
Battle Oracle - Surprise Charge Revelation
Quadraped Eidolon - pounce evolution
Mounted combat lets you move your mount and then take your actions...
Polymorph Any Object into something with Pounce?


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

And with the feats I laid out he shoots up to 7 attacks a round, every round (8 if he invests in a speed/haste option) or even more if he opens up to using some non-core abilities (Ricochet shot, I'm looking at you.

4 from BAB, 1 from Rapid Shot, 1 from Manyshot

Where's the 7th coming from?


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


Switching from archery to TWF will be a mistake. Remember it's still a tiny size creature so it has to enter a targets square to melee attack so it will be eating AoO's...

The Reach issue can be circumvented with the Lunge feat, and it's possible to make Timmy's AC high enough to make AoO's irrelevant anyway. Nonetheless, you bring up some very good points about multi-targeting.

Archery keeps him out of melee as much as possible, and opens up his options for targeting. He's limited to 5 attacks/round, but that should be enough to take down anything in the Bestiary anyway.


Cevah wrote:
CRB p406 wrote:
Scaling Powers: Hit dice, base attack bonuses, and saving throws continue to increase at the same rate beyond 20th level, as appropriate for the class in question. Note that no character can have more than 4 attacks based on its base attack bonus. Note also that, before long, the difference between good saving throws and poor saving throws becomes awkwardly large—the further you get from 20th level, the more noticeable this difference grows, and for high-level characters, bolstering their poor saving throws should become increasingly important. Class abilities that have a set, increasing rate, such as a barbarian’s damage reduction, a fighter’s bonus feats and weapon training, a paladin’s smite evil, or a rogue’s sneak attack continue to progress at the appropriate rate.

Sorry, max is 4 attacks, so make them count.

/cevah

Thank you for citing this! I knew I had read it somewhere, but couldn't find it again in my cursory search.

This likely modifies the focus of the feat selection from Archery to Two-weapon fighting.

221HD grants 55 ability score points, so we can easily increase Dex to 20 for Greater TWF, and pump the remaining 50 points into Str bringing it to 58.

With Power Attack, Timmy's at -55 to hit, +110 damage. He's pumping out 1d3+134 damage per attack on seven attacks that are very likely to hit (~+180).

He can also coat his weapons in his own poison, making each attack force a Fortitude save DC 122 for Sleep for one minute.

Vritra, if AC is an issue, remember the Improved Natural Armor feat can be taken multiple times. With 111 feats, Timmy's AC could easily reach 80+ from this feat alone while still accounting for combat capabilities.

Also, are you giving him gear? If so, how much are you spending on it?


Vritra wrote:

Realism is no fun!

I'll go with the 440,000 version first, using the rest of the Wizard's WBL for other gear.

I feel the main difference will be in the ridiculousness of saves and BaB between that one and the 880,000 version, so nyeh.

Goal is to see how well it operates against Bestiary opponents a 20th-level could reasonably face. Army situations, some 1v1s, etc. Keep in mind this is theorycrafting and not actual game situations (that I expect would show up), however I will take criticisms on tactics and such.

Major flaws this thing will definitely have:
Lack of planar travel beyond consumables, unless spending money on that.
Potential annoyances with DR (hah!)
Cost of arrows (any way to get free arrows?)
Potential other issues?

EDIT: Also, why the other equipment 7heprofessor? Is it all just necessary stuff for this or can we get away with removing some of it?

If by "other equipment" you're referring to the body, lab, and furnishings, those costs are taken directly from the Homunculus description so I viewed them as in addition to the Creation Cost.

I agree that 440,000 is a good benchmark to stat Timmy up at. If a 20th level Wizard decided his life's fortune was worth the creation of an uber little friend, I think he could reasonably be assumed to sell magical items and other properties enough to acheive 440,000 gp.

That said, my initial proposal was to stay Core-only with all options related to Timmy. That would limit the potential for unfortunate rules interactions, and keeps it more focused (further, there is a certain level of awesome about doing broken, amazing things with just the Core rulebook).

Core-only would remove the "Additional Abilities" section, so no Spell-like abilities, or Acid Breath, etc. This keeps the Craft DC at 12, which any wizard can make with 1 rank in Craft (leatherworking) and take 10 (additional Hit Dice do NOT increase this DC).

However, that is an entirely optional approach as this is purely theory-craft. The spell-like abilities would add immense versatility to Timmy, if that is deemed necessary. Your call.

As for arrows, Abundant Ammunition is one way to gain temporarily limitless ammo.

Planar Travel could be solved via an Amulet of the Planes, though that's pretty pricey and I'm not sure how necessary it really is.


So, we've established that this is far from likely to happen in a real campaign, but it is allowed within the rules. Can anyone submit a build that can defeat our Tiny God?

What are its glaring weaknesses? Can they be patched by feats (since we have hundreds to spend)?

Extra credit for a core-only submission.

(Anyone have a good name for the little guy?)


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stoolpigeon87 wrote:

Aren't there rules dictating what percentage of your WBL can be spent on one specific item?

Even if it's 25% of WBL, that's still insane. And dumb. And it's still a DC 12 to craft too. Wacky. Also this little guy is worth more than entire kingdoms net worth.

Any rules about how one spends their money are house rules as far as I know.

But I do agree that having this be possible is pretty ridiculous. Clearly not intended to go this far, but fun that you can.

Granted, Interzone's comment is quite relevant. One would likely spend the majority of their wealth just surviving long enough to become 20th level (though, as a Wizard likely less so). Selling off your uber magic staff so you can have a badass little friend might be worth it though...


Awesome, let the silliness begin!


I've been playing Final Fantasy III lately so I'm convinced all Bards must use a Harp.

The Apollo Harp casts Shell on all party members, so you could steal that idea and have a PF version that casts Antimagic Field, or Spell Resistance at will.


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If there is no cap on iteratives, and +439 BAB is 73 attacks Rapid Shot makes that 74.

Penalties to hit from Deadly aim (-109) and Rapid Shot (-2) = -111

So base to-hit is +328 before dex and other feats.

Deadly Aim adds +2 damage per 4 BAB or 219 damage per arrow (right?).

Assuming all attacks hit (a big assumption here) that's 185 damage from 74 instances of 1d4 damage arrows with an additional 16,206 damage from Deadly Aim or 16,391 damage in one round!

The probability of scoring at least one critical hit is very high, and that adds a base 438 points of damage.

Tell me I screwed this up please, because this seems a little off...


maouse wrote:

What this tells me is: #1 the HD of a construct doesn't affect its size (per the "GM may ignore the size increase if they want" option under sizing a monster). #2 This is a modification, not a creation rule, right? So you answered your own question. An 80HD Homunculus would be ridiculous (+80 BAB)... but seems to be eminently easy to craft (and 2/5th the cost of any other construct).

ps. ie. one more great example of the "broken" crafting rules. I had a thread titled "My New Friend..." about a week ago where I explored the ramifications of homunculi friends as flankers for rogues... and in the end decided if they did get feats, etc.. as intelligent constructs should (they already get skills and feats at 2HD, so it follows they would continue to do so) then a 100HD homunculus would essentially get 50 combat feats and be a real killing machine... the skills were pretty ridiculous also, as having 5000 or so skill points on 50 or so skills meant the homunculus could have +100 on everything. nuts, eh?

Indeed. See [url=http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r4ie?Tiny-God-theorycrafting-homonculus]this thread[/url} for additional discussion as to how to really ramp up the power of this.


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Hetra Karet wrote:

You won't have any other money for equipment, so keep that in mind, but I'm guessing anything that doesn't have immunity to poison or sleep effects is already dead or dying to this thing.

Pretty much I'd say the best option is TWF with a heavy focus on STR, and using some Intimidate feats for kicks.

Do you really need any equipment? I mean, at this point, you're a 20th level Wizard so you can just buff yourself to the nines, and sit back Telepathically communicating your desires for your Mud God to carry out!

Hetra Karet wrote:
Yeah, with that amount of BaB you get 73 attacks (I think), and even if the last 3(ish) miss, you still get a (fairly) guaranteed 70d(x)-7 damage before any upgrades.

Is there anything in the rules that limit your number of iterative attacks to four? Or does it continue past +20 BAB?

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
The only thing he'd have to prepare for is undead and constructs.

Great suggestions on the archery feats. Any thoughts on how this would deal with Undead, Constricts, and possibly some Oozes?


Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

I was looking to see what was possible with Core-only though. Any ideas for that?


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

Wizard, conjuration class, teleportation subschool. 18s to INT and DEX, 16 to CON, 12 to WIS, 10 to CHA, and 8 to STR.

Go elf, go first and be the most effective caster possible. You will also have strong, strong saves. There's a lot of room to do masterful battlefield control, SoS, and damage as needed. This will be an infinitely adaptable, impossible to touch character. Get fog cutting lenses, hangout in fog and decimate the opposition. It will be nearly impossible for the GM to stop you with the variety of options at your fingertips. No need for gimmick builds, this will do you just fine.

Close, Foresight Diviner is superior in my opinion.

I don't know anything about Mythic as my group doesn't use them, but a basic skeleton:

Elf Foresight Diviner 6

Alternate Racial Trait: Fleet-footed (+2 initiative)
Traits: Warrior of Old (+2 initiative), Magical Lineage: Magic Missile

Stats: As Mr. Pitt

Feats:
1. Spell Focus: Evocation [b]
1. Improved Initiative
3. Empower Spell
5. Varisian Tattoo: Evocation
5. Dazing Spell [b]

Use three of your four Third-level spell slots on Dazing Magic Missiles.

Your initiative modifier is +4 (feat)+2 (trait)+2 (racial)+5 (dex)= +13

You should be able to go first almost every time (even surprise rounds) and launch four missiles at the enemies (thanks to Varisian Tattoo raising your caster level to 7). They take minimal damage, but they're dazed so you can follow up with Empowered Magic Missiles to finish them off (4d4+4 *1.5 = 21 average damage for a 2nd lvl spell).

Either way...just my 2 cp


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Browsing through the Core rulebook, I stumbled upon Craft Construct again. I was then reminded of the Homunculus that one of my Wizard PCs created many years ago and decided to look at the Pathfinder version. I was pleased to see it was much the same, including the purchase of additional Hit Dice for 2,000gp each. I'm bored, let's break this.

A 20th level character gets 880,000 gp. Let's spend it all on the Homunculus, just to see how ridiculous we can make it:

Requirements:
Craft Construct Feat (Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, CL 5)
CL 7th
Arcane Eye, Mirror Image, Mending
Craft (leather) DC 12

Easy enough. Initial gold investment:

50 gp for body
200 gp for Alchemist lab
1000 gp for the lab furnishings
2050 standard cost

5350 gp

= 874,650/2000 = +437 hit dice

So, our little buddy has 439 total hit dice. That gives him:

+109 ability score points
(Base: Str 8, Dex 15, Con - , Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7)
2414 HP
BAB +439 (is there a cap in PF?)
Base Saving Throws 146 + modifications
His Poison attack: Fortitude DC 229 or sleep for 1 minute
And 219 feats

Here are the Core Feats he could qualify for:

tiny god:

Acrobatic
Acrobatic Steps
Agile Maneuvers*
Alertness
Animal Affinity
Arcane Armor Training*
Armor Proficiency, Heavy
Armor Proficiency, Light
Armor Proficiency, Medium
Athletic
Augment Summoning
Bleeding Critical*
Blind-Fight*
Blinding Critical*
Catch Off-Guard*
Cleave*
Combat Casting
Combat Expertise*
Combat Reflexes*
Critical Focus*
Critical Mastery*
Dazzling Display*
Deadly Aim*
Deadly Stroke*
Deafening Critical*
Deceitful
Defensive Combat Training*
Deflect Arrows*
Deft Hands
Diehard
Dodge*
Double Slice*
Endurance
Eschew Materials
Exhausting Critical*
Exotic Weapon Proficiency*
Far Shot*
Fleet
Gorgon's Fist*
Great Cleave*
Great Fortitude
Greater Bull Rush*
Greater Disarm*
Greater Feint*
Greater Grapple*
Greater Overrun*
Greater Spell Focus
Greater Spell Penetration
Greater Sunder*
Greater Trip*
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting*
Greater Vital Strike*
Improved Bull Rush*
Improved Counterspell
Improved Critical*
Improved Disarm*
Improved Feint*
Improved Grapple*
Improved Great Fortitude
Improved Initiative*
Improved Iron Will
Improved Lightning Reflexes
Improved Overrun*
Improved PreciseShot*
Improved Shield Bash*
Improved Sunder*
Improved Trip*
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*
Improved Unarmed Strike*
Improved Vital Strike*
Improvised Weapon Mastery*
Intimidating Prowess*
Iron Will
Leadership
Lightning Reflexes
Lightning Stance*
Lunge*
Magical Aptitude
Manyshot*
Martial Weapon Proficiency
Master Craftsman
Medusa's Wrath*
Mobility*
Mounted Archery*
Mounted Combat*
Nimble Moves
Persuasive
Pinpoint Targeting*
Point-Blank Shot*
Power Attack*
Precise Shot*
Quick Draw*
Rapid Reload*
Rapid Shot*
Ride-By Attack*
Run
Scorpion Style*
Self-Sufficient
Shatter Defenses*
Shield Focus*
Shield Master*
Shield Proficiency
Shield Slam*
Shot on the Run*
Sickening Critical*
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Skill Focus
Snatch Arrows*
Spellbreaker*
Spirited Charge*
Spring Attack*
Staggering Critical*
Stand Still*
Stealthy
Step Up*
Strike Back*
Stunning Critical*
Stunning Fist*
Throw Anything*
Tiring Critical*
Toughness
Tower Shield Proficiency*
Trample*
Two-Weapon Defense*
Two-Weapon Fighting*
Two-Weapon Rend*
Unseat*
Vital Strike*
Weapon Finesse*
Weapon Focus*
Whirlwind Attack*
Wind Stance*

Spend them all on Fleet and you have a speed of 1115!

In the end, it's definitely not worth blowing all of your cash on this little mud god, but it's pretty funny that you can do this with just the Core book.

Anyone have any cool ideas for this little guy?


Does this rule apply to the Craft Construct feat when creating a Homunculus?

From the PRD:

Basic Modifications

Hit Dice Modification: Hit Dice represent the overall strength and power of a construct. They affect a number of subsequent abilities, including hit points, saving throws, and base attacks. Determine the effects of a Hit Dice modification using the rules for adding creature Hit Dice using the information in Monster Creation. Because a construct's size is limited, a Hit Dice modification cannot increase its size. Therefore Hit Dice modification can never increase the base construct's Hit Dice beyond 50% of its total HD. Some constructs have a defined cost for increasing Hit Dice. To calculate the cost per Hit Die of other constructs, divide the construct's construction cost by its existing Hit Dice.

If so, one could only ever create a 2HD or 3HD Homunculus, correct?

Or, is this sited rule only applicable to modifying existing constructs?


Having played a switch-hitter, I can attest to the fact that Quick Draw is overrated. You can move and draw your sword as a free action so it's not needed unless you plan on drawing more than one weapon...take Titan's feat swap suggestion.

That said, Boon Companion is amazing. Definitely get it at 5.

For your wolf, concentrate on it's tripping ability. This will greatly aid your party by granting not only +2 for flanking, but +4 for enemy being prone.

Weapon Focus:bite as it's first feat, then increase its intelligence at level 4 so it can take any feat you can think of.

Whatever you do, do NOT have it take the Armor Proficiency feats. Just use barding with zero armor check penalty.

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