Keeping Archery Interesting

[Reynard_the_fox]

Hey all! Question for you archers out there: how do you keep things interesting in combat? Casters have to consider what spell to cast, and melee types have lots of positioning and potentially combat maneuvers to consider; but it seems to me that in combat, archers can simply maintain distance from the enemy and full attack nonstop. Our party needs an archer, and I'm sure I can build one capable of doing lots of things out of combat, but I feel like combat would become somewhat repetitive pretty quickly.

What do you guys think about this? Are there any classes that bring a lot of interesting decision-making to archery?

[Whisperknives]

You could play a Zen Archer Monk or Archer Ranger, that gives a lot of options, as well as varied play style.

However, yes if you are the fighter of the group you may end up just being an artillery platform.

Depending on race/class combinations, and what exactly you want to do, could make things very interesting.

Also arcane archer is very nice if you want lots of options.

[Jamie Charlan]

Letting other weapons be worth a damn would be a pretty good start, but failing that - if nothing else you have TONS of different mundane, abundantable ammo types.

Or perhaps you don't want to be archer specifically as in "longbow" but want a ranged martial character? That opens things up even more. Perhaps I could suggest a Soulbolt, or a half-giant hurler-barbarian that uses furious-finish and crit-stagger on his chakrams, or hey, why not a marksman?

[Wiggz]

Reynard_the_fox wrote:

Hey all! Question for you archers out there: how do you keep things interesting in combat? Casters have to consider what spell to cast, and melee types have lots of positioning and potentially combat maneuvers to consider; but it seems to me that in combat, archers can simply maintain distance from the enemy and full attack nonstop. Our party needs an archer, and I'm sure I can build one capable of doing lots of things out of combat, but I feel like combat would become somewhat repetitive pretty quickly.

What do you guys think about this? Are there any classes that bring a lot of interesting decision-making to archery?

Our GM discourages pew-pew-pew'ing by tracking ammo and challenging us with dynamic battlefields that don't always lend themselves well to hanging back and playing glass cannon - even Legolas had to draw his blades at some point, right?

[Rerednaw]

Not that there is anything wrong with consistent high damage. Archery is so feat intensive you won't be investing in little else so unless you deliberately go non-fighter (the aforementioned Zen or a Ranger)...

I suppose if your game allows it you could always try a Gunslinger. They are also ranged artillery, just done differently and with more options.

[Scavion]

Wiggz wrote:

Reynard_the_fox wrote:

Hey all! Question for you archers out there: how do you keep things interesting in combat? Casters have to consider what spell to cast, and melee types have lots of positioning and potentially combat maneuvers to consider; but it seems to me that in combat, archers can simply maintain distance from the enemy and full attack nonstop. Our party needs an archer, and I'm sure I can build one capable of doing lots of things out of combat, but I feel like combat would become somewhat repetitive pretty quickly.

What do you guys think about this? Are there any classes that bring a lot of interesting decision-making to archery?

Our GM discourages pew-pew-pew'ing by tracking ammo and challenging us with dynamic battlefields that don't always lend themselves well to hanging back and playing glass cannon - even Legolas had to draw his blades at some point, right?

Fortunately the fighter can literally be a tank and wear heavy armor while doing all of this in melee with Point Blank Master.

[Rerednaw]

Wiggz wrote:

Reynard_the_fox wrote:

Hey all! Question for you archers out there: how do you keep things interesting in combat?...

What do you guys think about this? Are there any classes that bring a lot of interesting decision-making to archery?

Our GM discourages pew-pew-pew'ing by tracking ammo and challenging us with dynamic battlefields that don't always lend themselves well to hanging back and playing glass cannon - even Legolas had to draw his blades at some point, right?

Rangers get a combat pet at 4th, Point Blank Master at 6th. Not to mention a bunch of useful skills. So I'd give them a look.

As for fighter...even as an archer they are not glass cannons...more like battle-steel ones. :)

[blackbloodtroll]

Archer Fighter archetype, and focus on maneuvers.

Alchemist Archer.

[Jamie Charlan]

Alchemist "Archer" with explosive missile and a cannon.

[TheSideKick]

im a big fan of eldritch knight archers. you would need to be able to cast 3rd level spells to qualify, but its worth the pay off with the versatility you bring to the table.

i personally like:
trapsmith ranger 1/ wizard 5/eldritch knight 10/ arcane archer 4

you can play a rogue, the artillery, and the god wizard. dont let anyone tell you that the low levels are bad for an EK, because you are a full fledged wizard with a bow which gives you tons of flexibility in how you can approach a situation.

high dpr isn't as powerful as being able to control the battlefield.

i think my EK archer was hands down the most powerful character I've ever played.

[Duiker]

There are a number of options here, all of which depend on you switching from the mindset that a high level archer's job is machine gunning for massive DPS. While we are perfectly capable of that, the focus on such a role to the exclusion of all others is beneath our lofty skill set. That's what we bring barbarians and fighters along for.

Other roles that the archer can play that make the game much more interesting.

1. Knowledge junkie. If you're playing a ranger, you've got a few skill points. Even if you don't, resist the temptation to dump intelligence and get yourself a couple points in each of the knowledges. Take some traits to make a couple extra ones class skills. Because you have high dex, you are going to have great initiative scores. That means that you are in a unique position to make knowledge checks in combat and yell what you know to your slower reacting compatriots, most of whom don't have knowledge skills.

2. Disable device. You have high dex. Put a few points in this, and you've solved the missing rogue problem for the most part.

3. Protection of the squishies. Look, the melee fighters are going to be upfront, you're going to be in the back with the mages and sorcerers and such. Recall what large proportion of fights end up featuring getting hit by behind, after you get hit from the front. The melee fighters cannot easily disengage. Your job is to stand there and machine gun anything that comes at the magic users from behind. Move between them and soak up attacks of opportunity if you need to. Your AC and HP will always be better than the wizard, so get in the way.

4. Emergency healer. If you're not a spell caster, get UMD and a wand of cure light in a spring loaded sheathe. If someone goes down, you can manuever to stabilize them with far less likelihood of going within range of the enemy. Same with shoving potions down the throats of the unconscious.

5. When you've got the gold for a +3 weapon, get a designating enchantment on your bow. Yeah, it does nothing for you damage wise, but it's a fantastically effective party buff. Anything you hit with your bow, your allies get +2 attack, +2 damage for a round. The beauty is, that a hasted high level archer can hit four different enemies quite easily, essentially giving a solid buff to the entire party while simultaneously doing all your damage.

The key to all of these is think about what your strong points are, and then think about how they can help the other people in your party. Archers have a fantastic swath of options.

[Harrowed Wizard]

EDIT: Got ninja'd by TheSideKick

I have had tons of fun playing a Tiefling Ranger/Wizard(Transmutation)/Eldritch Knight focusing on Archery in Ways of the Wicked(Fire Mountain Games). What is nice about this build is that you don't have to worry about the glass jaw as much as a melee Eldritch Knight.

Make sure that your Arcane Bond is a Longbow, make it Adjustable so that when you cast Bull's Strength it will use that Strength adjustment.After that though, you'll want to enchant it up to +5 Enhancement to overcome the 5 levels of Wizard BAB. Once you get to the early/mid-teens you have plenty of options to either Full-Attack OR you can cast spells :)

[Wiggz]

TheSideKick wrote:

im a big fan of eldritch knight archers. you would need to be able to cast 3rd level spells to qualify, but its worth the pay off with the versatility you bring to the table.

i personally like:
trapsmith ranger 1/ wizard 5/eldritch knight 10/ arcane archer 4

you can play a rogue, the artillery, and the god wizard. dont let anyone tell you that the low levels are bad for an EK, because you are a full fledged wizard with a bow which gives you tons of flexibility in how you can approach a situation.

high dpr isn't as powerful as being able to control the battlefield.

i think my EK archer was hands down the most powerful character I've ever played.

I'm going to concur on this in large part because there are some low level spells which can tremendously impact your archery - spells like Gravity Bow, Arrow Eruption, Abundant Ammunition and Cat's Grace to name a few.

Also, Archey + Battlefield control is much, much better than Archery alone. Moreover, you want to bump your will save because there are few better options for an enemy enchanter than the party's archer. Ask Loki.

[TheSideKick]

ooo another choice that ive been wanting to try out is Gnomish Special Forces

[Jamie Charlan]

That entire experimental gun line seems like a nasty trap choice though. Just a heads up, you're packing a lot of downsides in exchange for losing Gun Training.

[TheSideKick]

Jamie Charlan wrote:

That entire experimental gun line seems like a nasty trap choice though. Just a heads up, you're packing a lot of downsides in exchange for losing Gun Training.

i dont know... the grapple gun is awesome beyond words. the vial launcher makes an alchemist dip a very, very, very sexy multiclass.

[Grizzly the Archer]

For actual in game mechanics, use your higher dex, typically, to skirt around the battlefield past enemies with acrobatics. If you have a higher speed and the room for it, go for it. Besides keeping distance and full attacking, other skills like the knowledge skills, perception, survival, and possibly some craft skills will become useful. Not just for you, but for the party as well. All party members should have a ranged weapon just in case. Whatmbettermway to helpcthemvout by making some bows for those who can use them, at a cheap rate.

You'll probably have a decent to high wisdom, depending onne archer build. Perception, sense motive (if a class skill or a bonus), and survival all work off of wisdom. Keep these maxed out if possible, with perception always being maxed out. If sen motive or survival is notion your class skill, but you have extra skill points, put them in there. It will be a huge boon to you since most archery builds have one of those 2 skills.

Rangers get survival, but also get a bonus to sense motive bonus to favored enemies. Zen archers get sense motive, no survival. Fghters get survival, no sense motive.
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As for more tactical utility in combat and out, your a bowmen, you shoot arrows., use that to your advantage. There is a good number of different types of arrows. Not all for damage purposes. There are:grappling hook arrows, smokestick arrows, dye tracking arrows, blunt arrows, rain arrows (for splash damage), and some others. I would talk to your GM to create more arrows, not necessarily magical or,alchemical, but other arrows for select purposes if you need. My GM has so far let me create about a half dozen or so new arrow types that I can make that adds loads more of utility for me both in and out of combat. Your an archer with a golf bag on your side or back. That much utility in what kind of ammunition for your arrow you want to use opens up a world of possibilities to you and your party that you didn't have before. you can do the damage easily. It's time to take on some more challenging roles.

[Scripps]

Lot of great suggestions here, but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the classic switch-hitter.

Strength build, go with a big two-hander and use your regular feats for power attack, quick draw and anything else you might want, whether furious focus, the step-up line or any archery feats for which you meet the requirements.

Combat style feats are for archery feats you might not otherwise qualify for. Get bored pew, pew, pewing? Charge in with dat greatsword! Alternatively, a reach weapon and combat reflexes have some utility as well, and can put you in a situation where it might be easier to drop back to archery when you need to.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

How about considering a mounted archer? Samurai anyone? They can get a full attack as long as their mount doesn't move twice their movement I believe. Also while you are at it, get a mount that has the stampede ability. That way, your mount can stampede, and you can full attack. Lots and lots of fun. Also, this gives you a whole lot to do to keep it interesting. Battlefield tactics becomes very important.

[Jamie Charlan]

That limits things a bit however. You have to watch out for size - either by being small with a medium mount, or leaving the mount behind when you go inside or into many dungeon areas.

Powerful in the open, but don't overspecialize in it or you'll have issues when on foot.