What is a decent +Attack?


Advice

Sczarni

As a Martial/Melee; What is a decent +Attack(total) to have or aim for per level?

What about levels 15-20?

I know each class and build has their own abilities that can increase that, but I'm just asking for always active numbers. Equipment+Class Ability+BAB. Don't include things that rely on hindering an opponent(trip, stun, etc.) please.


1st level +6 is pretty optimized (1 bab, 4 stat, 1 other)


That's a bit annoying to write out for every level.

Suffice it to say that you should have your BaB automatically. Having lower than your BaB to-hit is super-duper bad.

By level 8 you should have at least a 20 in your attack stat. By level 10 you should have at least a 22 or 24 (snag that belt, or the +4 version of it). 15 a 26 isn't unheard of, and 30 by 20 isn't either.

Your weapon should grow about the same rate, a +1 bonus per roughly 4 levels. So +1 at 4, +2 at 8, +3 at 12, and so on. This can vary wildly depending on how much of your wealth you pump into your weapon (having a +4 by 12 is quite possible), but you should have at least that by those levels.

So all in all by level 8 you should have BaB+7 (Stat and weapon), by level 10 you should have BaB +8, by 15 you should have at least a BaB+11, and 20 a BaB+15.

Sczarni

I know the Martial/Melee classes vary a good bit between one another, circumstantially as well, but I guess in regards to the average CR that you'd face for those levels.

I should have specified to make this less of a headache.

What you told me actually giving me a good idea so far. Thank you both.


At any level you ideally want to be hitting the baddies AC at least half of the time. So at level 16 lets take the horned devil as an example. It has an AC of 35 so you want at least a +25 to hit by that time with all bonuses considered.

In some situations your to hit will bee higher or lower (rage, snores, etc.).


Level*1,5+4


Easier to be significant other of GM.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Look at the AC values on this table.

If you can hit the level-appropriate values with your last/lowest iterative attack with any regularity WHILE using Power Attack and similar abilities, then you are doing fine.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

pupsocket's formula is a good starting figure: (level x 1.5)+4
that should give you about 75% chance to hit first attack against equal CR (-25% for each iteration). that doesn't account for power attack though, so maybe aim for (level x 1.75)+4


My magus can reach (1.5*lvl) +4 higher if need be

so a straight bab should be higher if possible (rangers/paladins/fighters)


My rule is if you can't hit a boss level monster (CR=APL+3) 75 percent of the time then you need to rework it. Note I'm talking about using the average AC by level guidelines, and that 75 percent is for primary DPS classes. In all honesty its pretty much true for other characters too (saves vs spells/spell resistance, post buff circumstance stuff that 3/4 BAB classes use, ect).

Ideally you would like to have your 1 round post buff stats hit on 2s, anything better than that often will waste buffs (a +2 to hit past your hitting on 2s doesn't really do much barring unusual penalties).


@notabot - is that with your primary attack or every attack, TWF and itiratives included?

In general I'd expect a full BAB class to hit on 3-6 with its primary attack, depending on whether the enemy is particularly easy or hard to hit, and if PA/Deadly aim are used.


Pupsocket wrote:

Level*1,5+4

This is pretty spot-on


The Shaman wrote:

@notabot - is that with your primary attack or every attack, TWF and itiratives included?

In general I'd expect a full BAB class to hit on 3-6 with its primary attack, depending on whether the enemy is particularly easy or hard to hit, and if PA/Deadly aim are used.

That is an overall expectation. If your build requires multiple attacks to be effective in terms of damage expectations, then 75% or more of your attacks should be hitting. If you have a "one big hit" build you need to hit as close to 95 percent of the time as possible.

For instance last session I ran a 1 shot dungeon for some people since half my regulars couldn't show, and there were some randoms in the game store that wanted to play. Most of them were primarily melee full BAB, and against my boss monster they were hitting on 10s, and were somewhat surprised to not be as effective as normal. Some of the players were taking to many penalties to their attacks by being greedy with power attack and fighting defensively. Normally they have a support character, who wasn't there, providing large bonuses to their to hit and penalties to the enemies AC. Once they adjusted and dispelled the enemy's buffs, they were hitting on 2's again and finally got the magus to break through the outer ring of minions long enough to deliver the big hit they are so well known for (I made a 15th level evangelist LE cleric boss with sacred summons, he summoned max number of erinyes with SMVIII and superior summons and then proceeded to buff the hell out of them).


Threeshades wrote:
Pupsocket wrote:

Level*1,5+4

This is pretty spot-on

For instance, level 1 attack should be around 5.5, level 20 attack around 34. Got it. Except ......

What are you including in that number? Is the BAB included? External buffs (i.e., are you counting a +5 buff from your party member as part of that? Enhanced weapons?

I'm looking at making my first Pathfinder character, and having trouble judging how close I am to a 'good' melee build. Knowing what kind of +attack and damage numbers I'll be getting at each level helps me, but I have no PFS experience to compare to, i.e., no way of knowing how good/bad are the numbers I'm projecting. I certainly don't want to show up with the proverbial 'knife to a gun fight.'

I haven't worried about equipment, because I figure pretty much everybody has access to generally the same equipment bonuses (+4 = +4 = +4 = +4, whether it's a sword, axe, or spear). Granted, that's not 100% accurate, but I guess what I'm saying is: no matter what melee weapon you use, you can probably get the same enhancement as you could on any other type (or at least, within +/-1. If you can only get a +2 on swords, but can get a +5 on two-handed axes, then somebody, please let me in on the secret!). Because of that assumption, I haven't worried about equipment modifiers or included them in my character mapping.

If you could help break down that calculation above, it would shed some light for me on how my character plan is coming along.

(If it matters, this is for PFS)

Thanks much!

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