Think of a CG guy who does good more or less as a by product because he really wants to become famous. And he decided that to go and kill demons and their minions was the best way to do it. And the best about it? He IS being a hero by doing it and thus a champion of good.
My first go at this was the order of the cockatrice cavalier (houndmaster archetype) but the gm shot that down. His reasoning was that the order's edict forces him to be too selfish for this AR (WotR).
So is there any other class/archetype that screems glory hound like the orcer of the cockatrice?
- He can intimidate enemies by bragging about how cool he is. (Level 2 ability)
- He can steal the glory of other's crits (level 8 ability)
- He fights best when nobody else threatens an enemy (challenge)
- He is hard to intimidate (Cha to intimidate DC)
I had thought about a bard but bards sing about the heroes, they are seldome the greates heroes themselves.
How about the Cavalier Emissary archetype?
"Cavaliers serve many roles on the battlefield, from bold leaders and shock troops to dashing knights and mounted juggernauts. Some cavaliers, however, focus more on speed and mobility than they do on the raw power of the mounted charge. On foot or in the saddle, the emissary is usually first to meet the enemy, with a pointed lance, a drawn sword, or terms for surrender."
Add that to the Cockatrice Order and you got someone worth role-playing.
I am not allowed to play an order of the cockatrice cavalier.
That is why I am looking for another class that fits the glory hound concept.
That's basically the entire definition of what a vanilla Bard is.
I"m sorry I misunderstood.
Look into the Bard archetype Savage Skald + Celebrity. Those two archetypes can work together.
I was not able to find something that gives you all the cool bonus of the Order of Cockatrice, but you could totally play Savage Skald and Celebrity archetypes as a glory hound. Who better to sing and weave a masterful story of ones own daring successes than a bard?
"Glory-seeking hero" brings a number of ideas to mind, but no doubt not the same as yours. Any characters could role-play a glory-seeker, but I believe you are looking for mechanics to support the role-play. Perhaps you could offer some more ideas on what you think your glory seekers does and looks like. For example, a fully armored fighter could be a glory seeker but so could a nimble, light weapon rogue. A famous bard could fit the description, but so could a wizard who studies to find ultimate arcane power. Where on the spectrum does your glory-seeker fall?
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Get a Barbarian!
- He can intimidate enemies by bragging about how cool he is. (Level 2 ability)
Intimidate is a class skill and Cornugon Smash is an appropriate feat
- He can steal the glory of other's crits (level 8 ability)
He's a one-man melee machine, he's at the enemy faster and one-shots them anyway
- He fights best when nobody else threatens an enemy (challenge)
Again, he doesn't need teamwork, he just sprints up and smashes them to bits
- He is hard to intimidate (Cha to intimidate DC)
No answer here.
I have a Barbarian who does this. He has a Cha of 15 and thinks he is awesome (and he is right)
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Perhaps you could offer some more ideas on what you think your glory seekers does and looks like. For example, a fully armored fighter could be a glory seeker but so could a nimble, light weapon rogue. A famous bard could fit the description, but so could a wizard who studies to find ultimate arcane power. Where on the spectrum does your glory-seeker fall?
My idea was a melee guy with some tricks up his sleeve. Someone who can fulfill the knight in shining armor image, who wears comfort armor just because it doesn't get dirty.
He should be someone who gets his hands "dirty" and looks good doing so.And I see him more as the one others sing songs about, not the one who does so himself. We would not have someone accuse him of self-praise, would we?
Perhaps a high charisma armored hulk could fill the role. I have to think about that.
Im trying to understand the mindset of your GM...he just sounds like a bit of a tool, especially considering it's an adventure path and not a homebrew campaign.
Flavor is very important to him and for wrath of the rightous he wants a really good aligned party. And he doesn't see the order of the cockatrice as such because of his edict description.
Problem is that the character you describe isn't good aligned, either. Doing deeds that are considered good just for the fame and applause is somewhere around true neutral. Good aligned implies altruism.
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You can do both.
You can honestly and sincerely want to save the poor villagers from the evil dragon at the same time as bigging up yourself at your amazing dragonslaying powers.
That sort of altruism you describe might be a bit dry for the entire party to subscribe to, as there won't be much dynamic in victory after winning a battle other than a grim "we did what we had to do". Is there anything wrong with one of the party loving it and breaking out the champagne afterwards?
Problem is that the character you describe isn't good aligned, either. Doing deeds that are considered good just for the fame and applause is somewhere around true neutral. Good aligned implies altruism.
For one I said that he feels good about doing the right thing, too. Or at least that was what I wanted to say.
And second the pathfinder alignment works that way: You do evil, you become evil. You do good, you become good.
I think what you discribe isent a class but a personallity (somthing way more important) and i agree that any class can do it.
Either you need someone that is succesful he will need good cha and diplomacy and be sort of flashy(so no god wizard)
Or you will need someone that want to be known as a hero all across the world but just happend to ba a jerk and be travelling with some one more handsome and dashing(preferably someone unaware of his glowing charisma) An archer is perfect for the last type he can brag about never getting hurt and accuse the others of stealing his glory when they "get in tha way" and kill the baddies.
None of these need to be truly selfish at least they dont have to be only selfish.
Think of a CG guy who does good more or less as a by product because he really wants to become famous. And he decided that to go and kill demons and their minions was the best way to do it. And the best about it? He IS being a hero by doing it and thus a champion of good.
My first go at this was the order of the cockatrice cavalier (houndmaster archetype) but the gm shot that down. His reasoning was that the order's edict forces him to be too selfish for this AR (WotR).
So is there any other class/archetype that screems glory hound like the orcer of the cockatrice?
** spoiler omitted **
I had thought about a bard but bards sing about the heroes, they are seldome the greates heroes themselves.
Literally any class. ANY. Classes don't come with baked-in personalities; any member of any race of any class can be a gloryhound.
The Order of the Cockatrice character would be fine, really, so long as you made sure your goals were aligned with those of your party. If you want to be famous by smacking around bad guys, associating with a party of adventurers is a natural.
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If your GM wants a party that is really good, give it to him. You don't need to sacrifice your character one bit! I actually think a paladin, especially of Iomedae, can accomplish this very well. Just because you're Lawful Good does not mean you need to be humble.
Swagger in. Claim that you have the might of a goddess on your side, and that you will win because you are holy. When others thank you and offer you rewards, accept them. If the reward isn't to your liking, ask them why they don't appreciate you enough.
Keep doing good things because it's the right thing to do, but don't stop telling people how awesome you are.
This bears repeating:
I think I'll try this:
Theodor (Name subject to change) is a young man filled with both rightous zeal and a desire for glory and fame.
When fighting the forces of corruption sometimes holy fury fills him, turning him into a reckless killing machine (he uses his barbarian rage).
Besides fighting demons and their kin he longs for the respect his parents never gave him as a younger son of unruly behavior (he's a berserker) and seeks to get this by gaining glory and fame. Therefore he tries to do everything he does in a way that catches attention, makes sure a lot of people hear of his deeds and tries to cultivate a heroic image.
I will not give a full built here, just some ideas:
Armored hulk barbarian with high str and cha.
Will take the celestial totem line for more "I am the champion of good, venerate me".
As he will have a high cha, I think about adding a level or two of oracle later on. Not sure yet. Or perhaps Inquisitor if the Wis ends up high enough.
To afford decent starting gear (it should be shiny) I might take the rich parents trait.
What I still have to choose is: Race and god.
And which mystic path to take. Guardian, champion, trixter and whether I should take the dual path feat to add some hirophant powers. I have to choose the path from the beginning because I have to take the corresponding campaign trait.
But I might open another thread for the build once I got more than those bit above.
I think I'll try this:
Theodor (Name subject to change) is a young man filled with both rightous zeal and a desire for glory and fame.
When fighting the forces of corruption sometimes holy fury fills him, turning him into a reckless killing machine (he uses his barbarian rage).Besides fighting demons and their kin he longs for the respect his parents never gave him as a younger son of unruly behavior (he's a berserker) and seeks to get this by gaining glory and fame. Therefore he tries to do everything he does in a way that catches attention, makes sure a lot of people hear of his deeds and tries to cultivate a heroic image.
I will not give a full built here, just some ideas:
Armored hulk barbarian with high str and cha.
Will take the celestial totem line for more "I am the champion of good, venerate me".
As he will have a high cha, I think about adding a level or two of oracle later on. Not sure yet. Or perhaps Inquisitor if the Wis ends up high enough.
To afford decent starting gear (it should be shiny) I might take the rich parents trait.What I still have to choose is: Race and god.
And which mystic path to take. Guardian, champion, trixter and whether I should take the dual path feat to add some hirophant powers. I have to choose the path from the beginning because I have to take the corresponding campaign trait.But I might open another thread for the build once I got more than those bit above.
Looks good, but why armored hulk? I think a guy with a bare chest looks like more of a glory hound:) Low int but Middel high Wis and a few monk levels and he can go without armor and have an oily chest upperbody to show for it;)
But if the image of the hero in shiny armor is the one you are aiming for then Hulk it is:)
Yes it is the knight in shiny armor that is only on paper a barbarian.
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Be a Suli (my barbarian is a Suli).
You get a Str and Cha bonus, and you can make your hands burst into flames which is stylish.
Champion path, that's all about being the super warrior. Marshal is the path if you want the most fans and flunkies though.
Cayden Caelien is CG and indulges his people who are out for excitement and adventure. Shelyn is less outright fun, buy more Knightly and her artistic portfolio gives you a reason to get bards to write stories (about you)
As to the god I was thinking about Iomedae. If I want to take levels in a divine class that would mean being LG (not possible due to barbarian) or NG but she has a heroic image and having the glory domain she should, to some grade, understand being a glory hound.
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Do an Order of the Dragon Cavalier instead of Cocatrice. Simply refer to everyone as your minions or assistants, especially when you use your challenge. "Smite that evildoer, my minions!"
Clear this with other players first. Some people don't like being called minions...or lackeys. Or sidekicks. Or entourage. :-)
Think of a CG guy who does good more or less as a by product because he really wants to become famous. And he decided that to go and kill demons and their minions was the best way to do it. And the best about it? He IS being a hero by doing it and thus a champion of good.
My first go at this was the order of the cockatrice cavalier (houndmaster archetype) but the gm shot that down. His reasoning was that the order's edict forces him to be too selfish for this AR (WotR).
So is there any other class/archetype that screems glory hound like the orcer of the cockatrice?
** spoiler omitted **
I had thought about a bard but bards sing about the heroes, they are seldome the greates heroes themselves.
forces him to be too selfish?you tell your GM to shut up and watch the avengers--with particular attention to tony stark. that right there is a cockatrice cavalier done right (the suit is his mount).
ive made longer posts on this matter in other threads (that being the original and main one). order of the cockatrice is not and should not be the "order of the dick", and only uninspired people do so and ruin it for everyone else.
you could also be a mounted fighter (dragoon AT is nice and flashy, which can help the fame thing) and look into the low templar PrC if your GM wont relent.
forces him to be too selfish?you tell your GM to shut up and watch the avengers--with particular attention to tony stark. that right there is a cockatrice cavalier done right (the suit is his mount).
When we talked about it I compared the cockatrice cavalier to Han Solo and he told me that Han wasn't really selfish because he came back to save the day and for the cavalier doing this would mean to break his edict.
I do not think this is right because of: "The cavalier must take every opportunity to increase his own stature, prestige, and power." So when saving someone increases his prestige (hint it nearly always does) it is ok to do it. But I did not argue because I am used to getting my pc concepts shot down or needlessly nerfed. Seem I, as a player, have some drawback that forces GMs to always nerf my guys.
Wizard: Nothing says ego like phenomenal cosmic power.
Until you get to Wish, it's really only semi-phenomenal, nearly cosmic power.
But I did not argue because I am used to getting my pc concepts shot down or needlessly nerfed. Seem I, as a player, have some drawback that forces GMs to always nerf my guys.
I'm not sure about your other characters, but that one really doesn't sound like it needs a nerf. Unless you were planning on giving him some ranks in Perform: Dance to do an endzone celebration after spiking your enemy's decapitated head. Then maybe.
I'm not sure about your other characters, but that one really doesn't sound like it needs a nerf. Unless you were planning on giving him some ranks in Perform: Dance to do an endzone celebration after spiking your enemy's decapitated head. Then maybe.
They next to never need or deserve it.
With another gm in another system (shadowrun) I already had the idea of handing my pc to another player so that he can give both my pc and his own to the gm without telling which is mine. Because I had it happen that my pc was called "too strong" while being about 70% the power of the other player's pc.
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My idea was a melee guy with some tricks up his sleeve. Someone who can fulfill the knight in shining armor image, who wears comfort armor just because it doesn't get dirty.
He should be someone who gets his hands "dirty" and looks good doing so.And I see him more as the one others sing songs about, not the one who does so himself. We would not have someone accuse him of self-praise, would we?
Honestly, this screams Paladin to me.
Honestly, this screams Paladin to me.My idea was a melee guy with some tricks up his sleeve. Someone who can fulfill the knight in shining armor image, who wears comfort armor just because it doesn't get dirty.
He should be someone who gets his hands "dirty" and looks good doing so.And I see him more as the one others sing songs about, not the one who does so himself. We would not have someone accuse him of self-praise, would we?
There are already two paladins in the game.
Really, what you need to do is convince the GM that you are playing ball with him. WotR requires a certain kind of character (meaning personality). I assume that you have read through the WotR Player's Guide. If not, do so.
To get the most out of WotR, the party should all be characters who do good as a matter of course, and are invested in kicking some wicked demon butt while they're doing it. Additionally, redemption is a major theme of the AP and not something to be ignored. Trust me on this. Finally, the campaign traits are more tied into the path than any I have seen previous. Read them carefully and choose wisely, as they are associated with specific mythic paths.
There are many characters who can't work with this AP. Non-good characters, especially those not interested in redemption, need not apply.
If you can convince your GM that your character fits in with these concepts, and that your play style will maintain this, you should get approval. Tony Stark, as mentioned previously, can make a great inspiration for the type of character you're looking to play.
...Good points for not playing this AP (most likey unwilling)...
I read part of the players guide. Just some minutes ago I read the flavor for the campaign traits (before I had only looked at what they do, mostly) and I hated what I read. Especially the champion. Not only does its bonus suck, its flavor was such, that I simply could not get me to write it on the sheet for this guy. Only touched by divinity has a cool fluff.
The redemption stuff in RPGs annoys me. RL is all about redemption or better about protecting the guilty, not caring about the victims. And I hate it. When I game I want to leave this non sense behind and kill the bad guys.
Thanks, I'll just stop this and look for another game.
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...Good points for not playing this AP (most likey unwilling)...I read part of the players guide. Just some minutes ago I read the flavor for the campaign traits (before I had only looked at what they do, mostly) and I hated what I read. Especially the champion. Not only does its bonus suck, its flavor was such, that I simply could not get me to write it on the sheet for this guy. Only touched by divinity has a cool fluff.
** spoiler omitted **The redemption stuff in RPGs annoys me. RL is all about redemption or better about protecting the guilty, not caring about the victims. And I hate it. When I game I want to leave this non sense behind and kill the bad guys.
Thanks, I'll just stop this and look for another game.
Play a Paladin or Cleric of Sarenrae. Protect the innocent, redeem those (very few, I think) villains that are sincere in their will to change and UNLEASH HOLY HELL on all others (that is most enemies you should encounter in this AP I guess).
Actually, a servant of Sarenrae who has trouble with the whole redemption shtick could go to the front lines of the worldwound exactly because he will not have to worry much about repentant demons and cultists ;-)
Wow. Now I want to play one in this AP :-))
what about a ranger, or a ranger/inquisitor? you could really play up the demon hunter element with favored enemy- evil outsiders; and, your glory seeking could be expressed in trying to establish yourself as the world's greatest hunter (plus, you could easily go CG and be completely unconcerned about repentance/redemption/whatever). good stat synergy too if you do multiclass.
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There are already two paladins in the game.Honestly, this screams Paladin to me.My idea was a melee guy with some tricks up his sleeve. Someone who can fulfill the knight in shining armor image, who wears comfort armor just because it doesn't get dirty.
He should be someone who gets his hands "dirty" and looks good doing so.And I see him more as the one others sing songs about, not the one who does so himself. We would not have someone accuse him of self-praise, would we?
Have you checked with the other players to see what their character concept is? If it's different enough, and the GM doesn't mind (although given previous statements, he might), it shouldn't be an issue.
However, perhaps you could go a little crazier. An aasimar paladin 2/sorcerer 1 (destined bloodline, or draconic if you want the option of having dragon disciple)/eldritch knight would fulfill a different role in the campaign while still letting you realize a character concept.
After my problems with finding a pc, with the APs fluff and with what Thanis Kartaleon told me about the AP I decided not to play it.
But thanks for your help never the less.
forces him to be too selfish?you tell your GM to shut up and watch the avengers--with particular attention to tony stark. that right there is a cockatrice cavalier done right (the suit is his mount).When we talked about it I compared the cockatrice cavalier to Han Solo and he told me that Han wasn't really selfish because he came back to save the day and for the cavalier doing this would mean to break his edict.
I do not think this is right because of: "The cavalier must take every opportunity to increase his own stature, prestige, and power." So when saving someone increases his prestige (hint it nearly always does) it is ok to do it. But I did not argue because I am used to getting my pc concepts shot down or needlessly nerfed. Seem I, as a player, have some drawback that forces GMs to always nerf my guys.
If your DM thinks your class, order, or anything else automatically represents the sum total of your character's personality, he IS a tool. The flavor your character has is exactly that: YOURS.