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Ooh, I like the idea of Evil Fitz becoming the new (half) season Big Bad!
It could be extra poignant if Evil Fitz destroys the machine or prevents it from being used to bring others across, including Hope, Tripp and Ward, thereby earning the enmity of Mack, Daisy, etc.
But it's also possible that normal Fitz will wake up with Evil Fitz's memories, instead, and the actor will only get to play one character, Evil Fitz, for the half-season that arc runs.
I expected Ward to sacrifice his life at some point, and it to be all gleepy and overwrought. But they've already chekoved the hell out of that gun in this latest episode, and it might seem stale if they did it again. I have no idea how much input Joss Whedon has in this show, but I vaguely recall that he virulently despises being predictable, and if it seems that somebody is being foreshadowed to die (like Hawkeye in Age of Ultron, literally showing us his 'farm') then he will absolutely swerve and kill someone else instead. But since Ward seems equally likely to live on as an LMD *or* to die heroically, who knows what that leaves for swerves... (Aida reprograms his virtual self to betray everyone and Brett Dalton gets to play *yet another* version of Evil Ward? Bet you didn't see that coming!)
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Bringing GoodWard over from the framework seems like such an obvious move that I wonder if it's a red herring. however, it would give Ward's character the redemption arc that people had been wondering about / clamoring for, up until he exploded.
EvilFitz would be a great bad guy for next season and brings back the potential for a resurrected Hydra. Shield is at its best when they have Hydra to oppose them. Plus, it has the potential to really upend the Fitz-Simmons relationship just when they had settled into a groove. Moar drama!
I don't see them bringing over Tripp or Hope (because it really wrecks Mack's character motivations, etc.). I see Tripp as sacrificing himself, or just getting killed again and Hope will probably be a unwitting victim of the destruction of the Looking Glass or something like that. If EvilFitz wrecks the Looking Glass after coming through, it will give Mack a real reason to hate him, which would be especially meaty given their friendship to this point.
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If they really want to mess with us then Evil Fitz, Ophelia, and a bunch of Hydra goons will use looking glass to cross over...
the team will wake up and attempt to transfer Hope, Trip, and Ward through the looking glass...
only to discover that original Fitz woke up as also Evil Fitz when he destroys the looking glass and kills the people in transit.
Also the way they described the machine made it sound pretty much that the people "brought across" would not be LMDs, but actually flesh and blood human beings. So we wouldn't get a LMD Ward or Ophelia. If AIDA just wanted another LMD body, she could pretty easily port herself into another one for that purpose.
I expected Ward to sacrifice his life at some point, and it to be all gleepy and overwrought. But they've already chekoved the hell out of that gun in this latest episode, and it might seem stale if they did it again. I have no idea how much input Joss Whedon has in this show, but I vaguely recall that he virulently despises being predictable, and if it seems that somebody is being foreshadowed to die (like Hawkeye in Age of Ultron, literally showing us his 'farm') then he will absolutely swerve and kill someone else instead. But since Ward seems equally likely to live on as an LMD *or* to die heroically, who knows what that leaves for swerves... (Aida reprograms his virtual self to betray everyone and Brett Dalton gets to play *yet another* version of Evil Ward? Bet you didn't see that coming!)
yeah there are what...3? eps max left of this season. I figured doing another Heroic sacrifice this late in the game for Ward this season seems unlikely, what with the set-up and deferrement of the last. I actually don't think AIDA can easily just reprogram him either. Seems tweaking the mainframe is far more complex than that, otherwise Quake and Simmons would have been taken out the moment Ophelia knew they were present.
My figurative money is still on Ward crossing over, Tripp remaining behind to lead FrameworkShield, and Hope either tragically dying/left behind. The only other option I could think of for Hope coming across is her being accidently left behind and Ward takes her over later (Since as is he is hoping Daisy will leave and "his" Skye will come back). No idea at all about what could happen with Evil Fitz.
Evil Fitz...might come over but I honestly feel the writers are pulling slightly from a recent Captain America comic run. *goes to check* Yep. Captain America Volume #6. Codename Bravo, guy that Cap worked with back in WWII turned against them and also went with HYDRA. So...it might follow THAT pattern. Not sure.
Tony stark: makes an AI robot out of robot parts of a robot that wanted to destroy the planet. Robot goes on a rampage and kills a small city. He's a good guy.
Holden Radcliffe makes an AI robot with asimovs laws installed. His AI gets out of control and kills a shield agent. Goes to absurd lengths to NOT kill people. Obviously a bad guy.
a bit of an AoS tangent, but has anyone ever seen the 2011 BBC series the Fades? Watching it on Shudder right now and it's entertaining to watch a show featuring Fitz, Lucifer, Margaery Tyrell, and the main lead from "Get Out" all as major characters.
MMC,
Nope I have not.
Norse,
I think the difference here is Tony might be a little ethically challenged, but Holden is WAY more ethically challenged, especially since he tried to STEAL the freaking Darkhold...
I think the difference here is Tony might be a little ethically challenged, but Holden is WAY more ethically challenged, especially since he tried to STEAL the freaking Darkhold...
What makes Tony more ethical besides him being a protagonist? That he got a receipt for the chitari killer robot head?
Norse,
No...that he didn't set out to steal the FREAKING DARKHOLD!!!
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What makes Tony more ethical besides him being a protagonist? That he got a receipt for the chitari killer robot head?
I think the difference here is Tony might be a little ethically challenged, but Holden is WAY more ethically challenged, especially since he tried to STEAL the freaking Darkhold...
The difference is intent.
Tony intended to build an AI that would protect the planet and it got out of control. He then did everything in his power to bring it down and save lives at the risk of his own. That makes him a flawed hero.
Radcliffe intended to steal the Darkhold, create the Framework, force people into it whether they wanted to or not, and THEN lost control of his AI AFTER Tony's blatant example of why you SHOULDN'T go there.
Radcliffe isn't a bad guy; he is an arrogant person who believed he could avoid the pitfalls of what he was doing and justified it to himself as a form of greater good. He is in a Hell of his own creation because of it and should be pitied. But he is no hero.
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Norse,
No...that he didn't set out to steal the FREAKING DARKHOLD!!!
But that's out-of-character knowledge we're using here. Holden (and Fitz, for that matter) refer to the Darkhold as 'tech.' They honestly don't believe that it's magical or 'evil.' It's just information, that people who, in their opinion, know *less* about pretty much everything, are saying is 'too dangerous' for them to be using.
'It's the Darkhold!' might mean something to us comic book readers, but it's like someone telling us we can't read a book 'because it's the Gurpleplex!' Somebody in another universe might recognize the Gurpleplex as the source of the soul-devouring wumples currently sweeping across the continent of Murglesnerk, but it doesn't really mean anything to us, just as the word 'Darkhold' doesn't really mean anything to Holden than 'that book full of amazing tech that I can use to make a better world that those short-sighted fools tried to keep from me.'
Dr. Strange might know that the Darkhold is bad news, but Joe Average sure doesn't. Heck, even in the comics, where the Darkhold is the source of all vampires and might have had something to do with the sinking of Atlantis, it's not common knowledge on the street that the book is dangerous.
Set,
Ask the average person what the Necronomicon is, I'm pretty sure they'd probably know NOT to touch it.
I'm not convinced Marvel 616 and the rest DON'T know using the Darkhold is a bad idea...
I daresay the average person never heard of the Necronomicon, or the Darkhold.
We need to do a survey...
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What makes Tony more ethical besides him being a protagonist? That he got a receipt for the chitari killer robot head?
I think the difference here is Tony might be a little ethically challenged, but Holden is WAY more ethically challenged, especially since he tried to STEAL the freaking Darkhold...
The difference is intent.
Tony intended to build an AI that would protect the planet and it got out of control. He then did everything in his power to bring it down and save lives at the risk of his own. That makes him a flawed hero.
Radcliffe intended to steal the Darkhold, create the Framework, force people into it whether they wanted to or not, and THEN lost control of his AI AFTER Tony's blatant example of why you SHOULDN'T go there.
Radcliffe isn't a bad guy; he is an arrogant person who believed he could avoid the pitfalls of what he was doing and justified it to himself as a form of greater good. He is in a Hell of his own creation because of it and should be pitied. But he is no hero.
Radcliffe isn't doing it for the lolz however. He genuinely thinks the framework is a good thing, that will improve the world by ending "death". That seems comparable to Tony's aims. The only difference is that Radcliffe went a lot further down the "ends justify the means" and Tony ever did in accidentally creating Ultron
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I guarantee all evil dead fans know what the necronomicon is and the words you have to say before you pick it up.. well the first part anyways.
darkhold holder of dark synonyms
container, receptacle, case, casing, cover, covering, housing, sheath; of forbidding, threatening, ominous, tragic, disastrous, calamitous, catastrophic, cataclysmic;
Yeah I think that covers it.
*looks around for thesaurus*
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a bit of an AoS tangent, but has anyone ever seen the 2011 BBC series the Fades? Watching it on Shudder right now and it's entertaining to watch a show featuring Fitz, Lucifer, Margaery Tyrell, and the main lead from "Get Out" all as major characters.
yeah the Fades was bloody creepy.
The British can be pretty damn good at creepy
One worst case scenerio. Fitz comes out evil, realizes Hydra world was a computer simulation, brings out Ward, Trip and Hope but reprograms them for evil.
Evil Hope goes full Darkhold and becomes this universe's version of The Dwarf
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But that's out-of-character knowledge we're using here. Holden (and Fitz, for that matter) refer to the Darkhold as 'tech.' They honestly don't believe that it's magical or 'evil.' It's just information, that people who, in their opinion, know *less* about pretty much everything, are saying is 'too dangerous' for them to be using.
I don't believe that's the case.
They knew before they ever got hold of the thing that it had driven several other people to seriously dark places. Heck, Radcliffe himself took one glance at a page, freaked out, and slammed it shut... hence having AIDA read it instead.
CB,
THANK YOU! See I told you, Tony Stark might have screwed the pooch with Ultron, but he never KNOWINGLY consorted with dark forces.
While it might be that a SMALL segment of the population might not know what the Darkhold is (same for Necronomicon) I'm pretty sure it's not as small as those that do.
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CB,
THANK YOU! See I told you, Tony Stark might have screwed the pooch with Ultron, but he never KNOWINGLY consorted with dark forces.
1) He based ultron on a chitori killer robot with the idea that he could get "kill all humans" out of its root system, because he's tony stark!
2) Radcliffe is a scientist. The idea that information can be evil is an anethema to him , even before you hit the sufficiently advanced technology is magic and sufficiently analyzed magic is technology barrier that marvel runs on.
Radcliffe intended to steal the Darkhold
Colson killed 2 shield agents to save Skye. Radcliffe killed 2 trying to save his girlfriend.
create the Framework, force people into it whether they wanted to or not
I don't recall that being part of the plan.
and THEN lost control of his AI AFTER Tony's blatant example of why you SHOULDN'T go there.
Right, because no one is better than tony stark, and if he can't do it mere mortals shouldn't attempt it.
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Saw an article today that said Ghost Rider will be back for the Season Finale. Maybe just in time to give Human Aida the Penance Stare. That would be f$!#ing epic.
Poor programming-driven robot lass. The supernatural giveth, the supernatural taketh away. :)
'You wanted to be a real girl, instead of a super-strong, super-smart immortal being? Well, about that...'
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Sweet...They did a great job with Ghost Rider, so glad he is coming back!
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Can't we all just agree that tony is a evil billionaire that doesn't know hes evil and its trying to do good but through the eyes of evil... Ok I guess that is a lot to agree to but iron man is still one of my favorites. He just has more charisma then Radcliffe.
Loki is pretty popular.
But I think Hela might be coming to take his crown.
Also yes, Ghost Rider Penance staring AIDA, great way to cap of the season.
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Well, that was both depressing and huzzah-ish.
Speaking of.....she's seems to be human, but more than. Unless she suddenly had access to teleportation technology incorporated into the robe. IF she survives the season, maybe Ophelia will reconstitute Hydra in the real world.
Makes me wonder - would anyone who was given a body by that machine have abilities?
Gee, what a surprise! Mack stayed behind. I'm of the opinion that what the writers have done to him is a really s!+@ty thing. And from next week's preview, it looks like we stand a pretty good chance of seeing his real body killed off, so that he'll only have his Framework life. Honestly, this has been one of the biggest disappointments for me this season.
Yeah, that was a bitter sweet ending for that episode.
Well, that was both depressing and huzzah-ish.
** spoiler omitted **
Not so fast:
Radcliffe knows that Ophelia created a device that can build human bodies in the real world, and was alive, free, and presumably with Shield at the end.
I expect this will come into play, and be how Mack and Hope get out of the Framework
Also...clearly Tripp has no interest or need to come into the real world, but the characters exits from the framework doesn't seem to actually leave their doubles behind. So Ward now has a pretty good reason to go into the real world.
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Thus, real world Ophelia could have a wide array of Inhuman abilities.
Not clear whether those had to be specifically programmed in to the specs for her new body or would automatically apply to anyone transferred over.
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CB,
THANK YOU! See I told you, Tony Stark might have screwed the pooch with Ultron, but he never KNOWINGLY consorted with dark forces.
1) He based ultron on a chitori killer robot with the idea that he could get "kill all humans" out of its root system, because he's tony stark!
2) Radcliffe is a scientist. The idea that information can be evil is an anethema to him , even before you hit the sufficiently advanced technology is magic and sufficiently analyzed magic is technology barrier that marvel runs on.
Radcliffe intended to steal the DarkholdColson killed 2 shield agents to save Skye. Radcliffe killed 2 trying to save his girlfriend.
create the Framework, force people into it whether they wanted to or notI don't recall that being part of the plan.
and THEN lost control of his AI AFTER Tony's blatant example of why you SHOULDN'T go there.Right, because no one is better than tony stark, and if he can't do it mere mortals shouldn't attempt it.
I've always said Science unbound by conscience births horrors
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I wonder how many people find Fitz Sr. triggering. He pulls off the simmering menace of an abusive father unsettlingly well.
I've always said Science unbound by conscience births horrors
Oh come on, we've lost more people building hoover dam. He's looking at saving 6 billion lives.
Well, that was both depressing and huzzah-ish.
** spoiler omitted **
Not so fast:
** spoiler omitted **
I don't think hope can leave the framework. She doesn't have an actual conciousness she's just the computer faking it.
Yeah, I think CB is right, it's more a matter of having a form of consciousness (which I think the Framework CAN provide. Darkhold folks!)
Norse,
I somehow doubt the Darkhold saves anyone. It just uses them.
As for AIDA's new human-ish body? I'm still debating if that was intentional or not. It might be a side effect of the process. I mean this is Darkhold folks! Radcliffe already has said "The Darkhold is evil!" The man would know.
Honestly I'd like to say Ward comes back...but I'm not convinced. Nor do I think Mack is coming back. Which is a REAL stinking bummer. But there you are. So...yeah.
Fitz clearly will be mind-f'ed by all this for a long, long time. Regardless of how he feels about Jemma, and knowing what he knows now, he's still got enough memories to cloud up his mind to make him wonder what is truly real or not.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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First Thought: If Mack had chosen to leave Hope behind and jump into who-knows-what, my faith in him would have been lost. He may not know what he's lost in Yo-yo, but he knows what he won't give up.
Second Thought: Yes, AIDA is using Gordon's teleportation signature effect. And she's pretty good with it. What other Inhumans is Hydra likely to have?
Third Thought: If Fitz survives all this, I'm pretty sure his and Simmons' romance is going to be awkward.
Addendum: If Hope or Ward or whomever you please do indeed get real bodies and come over, bear in mind that there's no real soul there: it's literally the Darkhold incarnate.
Chris,
Uhm not sure that's 100% accurate but I do think they might end up with Darkforce powers.
I'm still not convinced they got the kinks worked out of it. I'm also not convinced AIDA planned on her body having these abilities.
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First Thought: If Mack had chosen to leave Hope behind and jump into who-knows-what, my faith in him would have been lost. He may not know what he's lost in Yo-yo, but he knows what he won't give up.
Second Thought: Yes, AIDA is using Gordon's teleportation signature effect. And she's pretty good with it. What other Inhumans is Hydra likely to have?
Third Thought: If Fitz survives all this, I'm pretty sure his and Simmons' romance is going to be awkward.
Addendum: If Hope or Ward or whomever you please do indeed get real bodies and come over, bear in mind that there's no real soul there: it's literally the Darkhold incarnate.
That gets into the whole philosphical debate of what is a soul and if its something separate from consciousness. Which uh...AoS has never really articulated a point on. I doubt anyone crossing over is going to be automatically evil
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...and yet AIDA, a computer faking consciousness, already left the framework... and was then able to experience actual emotions.
She had consciousness, which was transferred into the framework, which could be transferred out of the framework. Nothing says the framework CAN"T make hope conscious, but nothing says she has to be either.
if she is, then mack is doing the right thing. If she isn't, then mack is (with extreme extenuating circumstances) abandoning reality for his own happiness with a glorified tamagachi.
Chris,
Uhm not sure that's 100% accurate but I do think they might end up with Darkforce powers.
I'm still not convinced they got the kinks worked out of it. I'm also not convinced AIDA planned on her body having these abilities.
I am 100% sure she planned on giving herself super powers. After all, if you are going to go for creating a human body to dwell in, why not get all the perks. Evil Fitz was experimenting on inhumans, the purpose of which was no doubt to help create give Madame Hydra a inhuman shell in the real world. THe real question is, did she just steal Gordon's teleporting powers, or did she grab a whole smorgasbard of abilities?
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I am 100% sure she planned on giving herself super powers. After all, if you are going to go for creating a human body to dwell in, why not get all the perks. Evil Fitz was experimenting on inhumans, the purpose of which was no doubt to help create give Madame Hydra a inhuman shell in the real world. THe real question is, did she just steal Gordon's teleporting powers, or did she grab a whole smorgasbard of abilities?
She's got the combo platter. She's gone to megaman...