Jut curious, but which race?Spellscales
Up until they showed up, there was at least a small place in my heart for all the new races introduced in the 3.5 line of Races Of books. These guys were the combo breaker.
It wasn't just one thing. It was how the whole package came together.
But the worst parts that pushed it over the edge were:
1. They were characterized like ridiculous and hateful gay stereotypes from the 80's.
2. Their roleplaying advice was downright sociopathic and unintentionally designed from the ground up to grief everyone at the table.
Basically imagine if the guy from Mannequin had purple scales all over throwing fireballs around without a care, never apologizing for any allies or innocents caught in the crossfire because that would imply he did something wrong. And then clone him.
Edit: Actually that's unfair. The guy from Mannequin was sympathetic in comparison.
but...I like the 80s...
I want a bestiary that helps me build a monster that makes sense, not one that fits a CR guideline.define sense.I too am curious about this 'sense' of which DPH speaks.
If I were apply sense to real-life animals, they'd have something like 1 HD per size category, massive DR/-- depending on size category, +0 BAB, +0 base saves, and no skill ranks regardless of HD. Well, maybe predators would get +1 BAB and smart animals would get a handful of ranks.
Oh, and Small creatures of all types would have 0 reach.
I think that's a good start to making sense of the game, but I don't know if DPH has the same idea.
I'm sorry about how that came off, I was in a hurry when I wrote it, and didn't speak as well as I could have. My main gripe is that it seems like the CR of the monsters Paizo puts in the Bestiaries are all based around their relationship to the 0-HD races, while we're stuck with that table. I know that isn't always how it works (see the thread about gorillas from a few months ago), but the monsters seem more dynamic and fit into the world better than the monsters that are built because "we need something to hit this CR." The troop subtype from Rasputin Must Die, for example. Adam said himself they were built that way to hit their Creators more than anything else, which is great for that adventure, but doesn't help me at all for when I want to make a troop of something myself. It just makes my monsters feel kind of artificial.
TL;DR I want to assign mechanics to flavor, not flavor to mechanics.
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I admit it:I don't hate the players. I don't think they're being "entitled" if they want to try new things. I think that the real people I'm choosing to spend time with are more important than make-believe settings that don't really exist.
Had to run over from "that other thread" and let out a primal scream? :D
And I admit: I don't hate the players either. EVEN if they are a bunch of "entitled" people who get whiny if I don't let them play anything they like. I also think the real people I'm choosing to spend time with are more important than make-believe settings that don't really exist. I just don't see why asking them to adapt a little for the game means they are less important than the game.
Time for one of those "the circle is now complete" lines :)
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I think my touchpad hates me; feel free to delete the previous post if it even showed up...
I like playing and seeing snowflakey/gimmicky characters. The more gimmicky the better.
Child Medusa with Vow of Poverty/NonViolence/Peace who runs around petrifying enemies before they can die? Love it. Ghost Cat Sorcerer who can only cast spells by possessing opponents to get those human limbs (and temporarily giving them cat ears)? Great. Pixie Barbarian? Do it.
That being said, I love monstrous races as long as your not doing something prohibitively abusive like playing a sorcerer succubus just for the extra Charisma.
I also enjoy anime; not really a big fan of Shonen; prefer 80s space operas and dialogue-heavy shows. And while I enjoy the grittier style campaign scenarios that emphasize realism, I really do enjoy exalted-style/BESM-style/anime-style shenanigan campaigns too. That being said, this causes a lot of conflict as the people I RP best with tend to be those who fill the stereotypical "anime-hating wargamer" stereotypes.
I ABSOLUTELY love making people's heads spin at abusing mundane gear the DM gave us access too. Recently in a PFS game the DM gave us access to a ship. We killed the owner and freed the slaves on board...then had to break into an enemy compound--a waterside warehouse. "Why don't we just ram the ship into it?" My other examples has to do with a grain-silo and a character eyeing the BBEG holding up a match with the simple phrase: "Ever hear of a dust explosion?"
I hate tables where we can't introduce our characters. I like long backstories--but I don't like sharing/hearing them once the game has started (after the game? If we showed up before everyone else to a game? Lets talk!).
I hate OOC "relationships" between players. I don't mean 'at the table' either. I wouldn't kick anyone out over it; but thus so far I've lost three groups in the past five years due to breakups. Well...two breakups and one who wouldn't stop public acts of affection combined with blatant favoritism with the GM.
Finally, I really hate what one group called "faceclaims". Taking other people's art as "character/appearance inspiration" is fine. But when every part of your characters appearance is exactly like another character I can guarantee that by the third adventure people will start calling your character the other character's name and you won't be correcting them. You'll use their combat styles, personalities and, if we get deep enough, will probably start ripping off their backstory. Pathfinder (and any RPG) is a game of limitless possibilities. Why you'd choose to express mere adaptation of a creative work into another medium rather than create something yourself is...kinda beyond me.
I'm sorry about how that came off, I was in a hurry when I wrote it, and didn't speak as well as I could have. My main gripe is that it seems like the CR of the monsters Paizo puts in the Bestiaries are all based around their relationship to the 0-HD races, while we're stuck with that table. I know that isn't always how it works (see the thread about gorillas from a few months ago), but the monsters seem more dynamic and fit into the world better than the monsters that are built because "we need something to hit this CR." The troop subtype from Rasputin Must Die, for example. Adam said himself they were built that way to hit their Creators more than anything else, which is great for that adventure, but doesn't help me at all for when I want to make a troop of something myself. It just makes my monsters feel kind of artificial.
*scratches head*
I'm just as lost as ever. But that's okay, I don't have to create 3.x monsters anymore. :)
That being said, I love monstrous races as long as your not doing something prohibitively abusive like playing a sorcerer succubus just for the extra Charisma.
I could be wrong, but I think this is an example of prohibitive anti-abuse. As in, "Why'd you gimp yourself with all those racial HD and LA?!"
Finally, I really hate what one group called "faceclaims". Taking other people's art as "character/appearance inspiration" is fine. But when every part of your characters appearance is exactly like another character I can guarantee that by the third adventure people will start calling your character the other character's name and you won't be correcting them. You'll use their combat styles, personalities and, if we get deep enough, will probably start ripping off their backstory. Pathfinder (and any RPG) is a game of limitless possibilities. Why you'd choose to express mere adaptation of a creative work into another medium rather than create something yourself is...kinda beyond me.
I don't know what you're talking about, my ninja Riddick...
Nevermind. ;)
Jut curious, but which race?Spellscales...
I played a few Spellscales. I didn't play them very close to how the book described them, I just took the initial description, stat bonuses, etc, and made it my own. I like the idea of a magically-inclined dragonblooded race that wasn't all "big claws" and "breath weapons."
But, I do agree with everything else you said about the race in general. They were written pretty poorly. That's why I lifted the notion of them and changed a lot.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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But, I do agree with everything else you said about the race in general. They were written pretty poorly. That's why I lifted the notion of them and changed a lot.
OT: That's one thing I loved about the OGL, you could do things like that. I mean compare Bastards and Bloodlines to In the Company of Monsters. Same point of origin, radically different takes.
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I am a fan of the trope Cute Monster Girl, and won't mind that bleeding over to my D&D / PF gaming.
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But, I do agree with everything else you said about the race in general. They were written pretty poorly. That's why I lifted the notion of them and changed a lot.OT: That's one thing I loved about the OGL, you could do things like that.
Unless you're publishing something about them, you don't need the OGL for that. The OGL was a pretty cool thing, but people around here act like nobody was every able to do anything good in RPGs until the OGL happened. A couple factoids for you, guys:
1. Third party publishers existed before the OGL. Ever hear of Judge's Guild? Flying Buffalo? Dozens of others?
2. You changing the flavor or even the rules of something in the game for your home game was not made possible by the OGL. People have been doing that in roleplaying since Arneson and Gygax first came up with some alternate rules for Chainmail.
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Confession that will get me shunned: I think anyone that reads this entire thread has way too much time on their hands.
And I think the thread has been entirely too negative for me to read, even as a "joke".
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think you're missing my point Kthulhu,
The OGL, and publishing under it, provided a legal framework for taking the crunch and concept published under something, and running with it without IP issues.
The Malhavoc Ironborn, for example, are the mechanical basis for Rite's Ironborn, taking Malhavoc's ideas and building on them, but the fluff is different. Same goes for Dreamscarred's Elan, Xeph, etc. You can't reskin Warforged and make your own "big book of 'forged" Or publish "Githyanki of Questhaven" True you can make a Ersatz of the IP (Ironborn can be seen as this for Warforged for example) but you can't make the stats wholesale.
That was my point.
Jut curious, but which race?Spellscales
Up until they showed up, there was at least a small place in my heart for all the new races introduced in the 3.5 line of Races Of books. These guys were the combo breaker.
It wasn't just one thing. It was how the whole package came together.
But the worst parts that pushed it over the edge were:
1. They were characterized like ridiculous and hateful gay stereotypes from the 80's.
2. Their roleplaying advice was downright sociopathic and unintentionally designed from the ground up to grief everyone at the table.
Basically imagine if the guy from Mannequin had purple scales all over throwing fireballs around without a care, never apologizing for any allies or innocents caught in the crossfire because that would imply he did something wrong. And then clone him.
Edit: Actually that's unfair. The guy from Mannequin was sympathetic in comparison.
LOL Hollywood? Meschach Taylor?
But, I do agree with everything else you said about the race in general. They were written pretty poorly. That's why I lifted the notion of them and changed a lot.OT: That's one thing I loved about the OGL, you could do things like that. I mean compare Bastards and Bloodlines to In the Company of Monsters. Same point of origin, radically different takes.
Was "Races of the Dragon" an OGL-approved book? I see your point, but I didn't think you could technically "do" that if not.
I agree and stuff, but I was just meaning for home-use, not trying to actually publish a retooled Spellscale for profit. Maybe I should, though...
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I understood what you were trying to say. I guess one of my confessions that will get me shunned is that I don't think that the sun shines out of the OGL's posterior. Like I said, it's a nice thing, but people here tend to act like it's responsible for for letting people do a LOT of stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the OGL.
I am a fan of the trope Cute Monster Girl, and won't mind that bleeding over to my D&D / PF gaming.
♥
But noone would play, I don't think.
I am a fan of the trope Cute Monster Girl, and won't mind that bleeding over to my D&D / PF gaming.♥
But noone would play, I don't think.
I would. When I was growing up I used to watch a ton of anime and JRPG. I don't mind those tropes in my gaming.
Confession: I used to watch a lot of anime and play a lot of JRPGs. but I said that a few pages back...
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I play a pacifist character.
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I feel dirty even remembering it, but once, while playing GURPS Supers (and this after years of mocking other people for making boring Wolverine clones), I played Gambit.
The shame still burns me.
(Also, he was totally unsatisfying as a PC. A superhero with no defensive powers and no way of getting around more advanced than 'owns a motorcycle?' Sad, strange little man. Here's a shiny nickel, go buy a useful powerset.)
[tangent]
Spellscales
Ages ago, someone I don't remember asked what a Spellscale adapted to Golarion would look like, and I barfed up the following.
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I play a pacifist character.
BOOOOOO! And you call yourself a roleplayer!!! HISS!!!
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I find the production quality of Paizo's books to be rubbish. Both the AP books and the hardcovers. In comparison to my 3.5 rulebooks they seem to be made out of toilet paper instead of decent paper.
I mostly use pdf for pathfinder and the real books for 3.5. The wear on my 3.5 books is minimal while my Pathfinder books' spines are coming loose and the corners are damaged.
I sometimes wonder if this is due to the printing age from back then or due to the printer they use. (Haven't bought a single book from wotc since they went 4th, thus can't compare between quality now).
I am a fan of the trope Cute Monster Girl, and won't mind that bleeding over to my D&D / PF gaming.♥
But noone would play, I don't think.
I was given permission to play a Lawful Neutral Holstaur Cleric of Zon-Kuthon by one DM.
We're still waiting for that campaign to continue, since that campaign was just insanely fun.
I am a fan of the trope Cute Monster Girl, and won't mind that bleeding over to my D&D / PF gaming.♥
But noone would play, I don't think.I was given permission to play a Lawful Neutral Holstaur Cleric of Zon-Kuthon by one DM.
We're still waiting for that campaign to continue, since that campaign was just insanely fun.
....I respectfully request pics of said character.
If it is anything like Chalo's Las Lindas (NSFW) then I want to see it as well!
If it is anything like Chalo's Las Lindas (NSFW) then I want to see it as well!
I have sketches that I showed to Freehold. I can PM them if you want.
They are beautiful.
I dropped you a PM (and a warning), Terquem. Enjoy~
Also, Tiamat should be a Chaotic Good fertility and ocean goddess.
Shun me for defying the five-headed, Lawful Evil D&D version if you must!
I like to GM smut and creepy stuff for people I like.
I have had an inordinate number of people whom I've RP'd with online mistake my actual gender for female.
I too wish to see the pictures that were discussed, and have naught to offer in exchange since the commission I'd gotten of a comic that was KyraXAlhazra is common knowledge.
Fergug that sounds awesome. How did that turn out?
I like to GM smut and creepy stuff for people I like.
I have had an inordinate number of people whom I've RP'd with online mistake my actual gender for female.
I too wish to see the pictures that were discussed, and have naught to offer in exchange since the commission I'd gotten of a comic that was KyraXAlhazra is common knowledge.
... comic? What comic?
... comic? What comic?I like to GM smut and creepy stuff for people I like.
I have had an inordinate number of people whom I've RP'd with online mistake my actual gender for female.
I too wish to see the pictures that were discussed, and have naught to offer in exchange since the commission I'd gotten of a comic that was KyraXAlhazra is common knowledge.
This one.... comic? What comic?I like to GM smut and creepy stuff for people I like.
I have had an inordinate number of people whom I've RP'd with online mistake my actual gender for female.
I too wish to see the pictures that were discussed, and have naught to offer in exchange since the commission I'd gotten of a comic that was KyraXAlhazra is common knowledge.
this is the greatest thread ever.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I love alignment and how it is a physical law in the Pathfinder/D&D universes. Adds an element of how actions have consequences.
When I GM a game, I steal shamelessly from movies and TV. In fact, I once had the world of Dark Sun invaded by the Borg - it was sure a shock to them when three people wearing metal walked into Urik and killed the sorcerer-king.It was a bigger shock when they spoke the native language of the thri-kreen.
Tangental TV ripping off.
I ran a 3e game, where the BBEG in a can was released by the party, and they needed to collect the 8 keys of power, symbols of an old regime, to unlock the Well of Worlds and retrieve the artifact that imprisoned him in the first place. The campaign fell apart due to RL before they could get all the symbols, but they got the first two.
What they didn't know was that the symbols were Gate symbols. They'd figure it out when they got to the well of worlds and started dialing. My plan was for them to go through the gate, end up in Antartica (second gate) then find the McGuffin in a museum. They go back to get home... and the gate has been moved. Then comes sneaking into Cheyene Mountain and figuring out how to overcharge/hijack the gate to go home...
I always liked subraces (yes, even the thousands of elf variants). That being said, is D&D evolution the reverse of real world? The longest lived race (elves) have the most variants, but the shorter lived ones only have a very few, if any.
Or is it because for some reason, people just have a hardon for elves?
Another thing: of the core races, I think half-orcs and dwarves are the best choices.
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Confession: I hate elves.
And I hate my past self that liked elves.
If you tell me that you like elves, I secretly lose all respect for you.
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I'm not really enamored of Vancian magic. I wish Paizo had changed the magic system more for Pathfinder.
While I like that magic-user classes can now cast cantrips/orisons all day with no per/day limit, I'm sick of all the different iterations of the same basic spells. Take invisibility, for example. Once a PC is able to cast 'greater invisibility', it's unlikely that she'll ever use 'invisibility' again. Why not just make all invisibility spells one spell, and increase the options as the character's level increases, similar to spells like 'fireball' that increase damage as the character's level increases.
I'd also like to see sorcerers get their own spell list, or at least some spells that are exclusive to that class.
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Take invisibility, for example. Once a PC is able to cast 'greater invisibility', it's unlikely that she'll ever use 'invisibility' again.
Bad example, unless you never, ever, ever use Invisibility OUTSIDE of combat.
My home games always use a pt. buy of Minimum of 32pts
I've played clerics that exclusively healed in combat
I prefer martial classes over casters, although the magus is becoming a favorite
I think I kinda hate Golarion
I am afraid to play good-looking characters out of fear I will be shunned by players who think I am being vain
